Will ann Lose her job?

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi everyone,
Today a friend has asked me to do a horary chart asking whether she may lose her job. she is a nurse and the private old people's home for whom she works has gone into receivership. As far as I can see the chart is radical.

Date: 6th August 2007...Time:21.29.25

Lat: 33.55S
Long: 151.10E
Time Zone 10E
asc: 6.52 Aries

My attempt:
Ann is venus (H7 cusp) and in virgo-appropriate as she is a nurse.
Venus is retrograding toward Saturn -natural ruler of H10 matters -career so her focus is coming back to her career and as Saturn rules her turned H4,domestic responsibilities are foremost in her interests. Saturn is in Leo (the house that naturally rules children's affairs)> Ann is a sole parent with two teenage kids and her worries are shown by saturn debiltated in leo in a head on with her venus ruler- Libra because she is concerned she won't get a fair go from the bankrupt owners.This head on with venus and saturn perfects in about 5 *somethings*- one fixed sign, one mutable- months?
The moon is applying to a square with Saturn, also in 5 *somethings* but both fixed signs....(months?)

Before leaving the sign, the moon will conjunct with mars and they will enter new signs almost straightaway..this activity happens in ann's H8- shared resources, payouts, govt, money, superannuation, retrenchment payouts etc... Then both will enter her H9....This suggests to me that Ann might enter into the teaching or training sector this house being ruled by Mercury now in her turned H10. Mercury applies a trine to Jupiter in her H3-education.
With the sun approaching an opposition to neptune across her H5- H11 axis I am concerned she will be deceived by the organization for which she works. saturn (the government) seems powerless to act and has to sit back and receive retrograde venus out of dignity on both counts.
Venus and mars are coming in to square one another as well-from her H8...

Checking the midpoints I see saturn is sextile the midpoint of saturn and pluto- this suggests to me things coming to an end...Fortuna makes an applying aspect to sextile uranus in her h6 so maybe she will get an unexpected offer of a new job Fortuna is also applying a trine to her moon in her turned H8..

I'm inclined to think ann will lose this job but that another job follows hot on its heels (she has high qualifications)
Can anyone please give me a second opinion? Thanks very much- lillyjgc
 
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archergirl

Well-known member
Hi lillyjgc,

Just curious, but why did you choose the 7th for Ann? If she's a friend, wouldn't you use the 11th/Saturn? If we look at it from this perspective, the Moon applies by square to Saturn, and them immediately conjuncts Mars, the turned 10th. I would see this as Ann keeping her job (square); however as you note both the Moon and Mars change signs almost immediately, to a place where neither planet has any dignity. Perhaps she would have to accept fewer hours or a reduction in wages: Jupiter, ruler of both her wages and her own money, is retrograde but stationing direct (a renegotiation?) and the Moon applies to oppose.

Dunno, just a different house assignment. It depends on whether you define Ann as a friend or as 'any old person' [7th].

Cheers,

:confused: AG:)
 

sskohli

Well-known member
hi lilly
you mentioned before you had interest in nadi's interpretation.
So can you please pick up a random number between 1 and 249 both inclusive and not your lucky or fav numbers.
Yes and like AG mentioned, how are you realted to Ann.
best would be if Ann picked up the number.
Thanks
Sandeep
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi Ag and Ss,
Thanks for the above. I thought about using h11 cusp for ann but as this is an issue not in regard to me or the friendship and it doesn't affect me either way, I chose H7 (we are friends but not *besties*- i don't feel I have any emotional involvement with the issue like I would if I was her child or mother say... so I chose H7 making H4 her career house.
SSkholi, ann is coming over later so I will be happy to ask her to choose a number...Looking forward to what Nadi says on this too.

Yeah I see that if she stays her hours may be cut and as she is close to the breadline now I think she would HAVE to find a new job just to bring in the cash to cover the kids and the mortgage...
I don't want to scare her (she is a pisces) but I feel I need to warn her of the impending reductions...As the nursing home in question is partly government funded we are hoping she will still get the massive amount of entitlements owed to her (leave LSL, super etc...) Not sure what happens in this case when the owners go into receivership...104 bedridden patients with nowhere to go. This place employs about 90 staff all up so the loss of employment will affect a lot of families in our small community. Very worrying all round.

Thanks guys for your input. lillyjgc
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi again- Sandeep,
The number ann has chosen is 190. Thankyou so much for your input...Cheers, lillyjgc
 

sskohli

Well-known member
Hi lilly,
How long has ann worked there.
because the horary shows lot of emotional attachment with it and maybe even the patients.
I see someone senior who she might have some good relationships with intervening and helping her out.
I don't see clearcut termination, so i don't think she would lose her job.
(I really don't know why i am saying this..but she might even be promoted..I am getting a lot 10s meaning fame/promotion..either that or there are a lot of 5s and 9s in the chart meaning a job change..so she might get a new better job..again with maybe a senior referring her...)

Hope it helps
thanks
sandeep
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Lilly, let me have a look as well. I agree with AG about the 11th house. You dont have to be extremely chummy in order to say that someone is a friend. She is coming over to you, she trusts you to do a horary for her, I take her as a "friend", not just someone you happen to know. But either way, in this case, you see that Saturn and Venus are both in the 7th (your 5th, not her 5th!) and both not all too happy. Because I see Saturn as significator of Ann, in this case, I do not take him as being a malific on Venusses retro road. In fact, I think that Venus, being a benific planet, will benefit Ann. She is going towards Ann. Ann's second house of income is ruled by Jupiter and Jupiter is found in her 11th house of hope and he is retrograde maybe showing that she is loosing hope of a worse financial situation.The money situation does not look very bad . Jupiter, is still very well placed in own sign after all and conjunct Antares, one of the 4 royal stars! promising honors and riches! .However, Mars, ruler of her 10th is not strong in Taurus but in it's own term!and in a fixed sign. Fixety means staying power.Also Saturn, her significator is in the term of Mars (the career). However, Mars will change signs very soon (30') which could mean that there will be changes in the job area pretty soon. Mars will move into Gemini, in terms of Mercury, also not very happy and the new task will probably not be to her satisfaction, maybe part of it being administrative or to do with transportation (of the old people).
So yes, I think she will stay in the job but probably has to do something different. Her Pars of Fortune is also in her 12th which is not a very good position for POF and the Sun will make an inconjunct to Pars, also in 1° at the same time more or less that Mars will enter the new sign. But POF is in the term of Jupiter! which helps a lot. Inconjuncts show adjustment to be made. As Sun is the heart of the chart and has an overall significance, I could interprete it as follows: Because of adjustments that have to be made in her place of work, Ann will find herself in a less favorable position. She could be getting better pay, but she might not like the work she has to do. Please let us know what will happen.
 
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sskohli

Well-known member
Hi star
coool most of the points are similar, but there is one thing contradictory i am seeing, i am not seeing much of money but fame in the coming time.
less 6 (toil) but more 10 (fame), that's why i said she might even get promoted, but with a lesser salary.
Maybe they'll fire someone senior and put her on his/her place with the same salary.
who knows..interesting...
definitely lilly keep us posted.
how much long before she knows?
sandeep
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Thankyou so much star and s.
ann has worked there for 10 years and yes you are right s- her first comment to me was about the welfare of the patients...The business is to be sold so a lot will depend on the buyers-the receivers say it can make a profit.There have been a lot of probs with staff.

Star: I think what was concerning me is saturn (her ruler, as you have delineated the chart)being debilitated and approached by venus, also debilitated and mars, debilitated in Taurus moving into another weak placement and the sun approaching opposition to neptune.....Ann is a senior staff member already but if the business FOLDS all staff will be retrenched.There are no other similar facilities for Ann in the local area to work in- If the business is sold it will be up to the new owners. The receivers told the staff their entitlements are in jeopardy.
Thankyou to you both and I will certainly let you know what happens....lillyjgc
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi Starlink, Just a couple of things- (BTW Thankyou for taking the time to help me with this),
Pars fortuna is faster than the sun and separates from the inconjunct and makes no applying aspects so pars is *void of course* which I see as unhelpful in a horary but pars is in cap, saturn's sign.

Venus in the sign of frugality is heading toward her ruler..debilitated *help*and venus is square to mars in her house 5.(her children) and mars about to enter mercury's sign where it is also not strong and this will be in her house 6 of health and daily matters..(and pets, which she does have a few of..that could cost her money when money is short).
If we take H11 as Ann's first house (previously I was using House 7 cusp as ann),Neptune is there and saturn her ruler has just separated from opposition so suddenly she is seeing the true threat of the situation.The moon is just past a T-square to Sat and Nept...crossroads opening up, that which was hidden coming to light (ie the impending insolvency)...
If H11 cusp is Ann (saturn) then her ruler is in the hands of her enemy, ruled by the sun and this house is packed and getting stronger as the impending stellium builds. Saturn's only positive aspect is an exact trine to pluto in anne's 11th house (organisations) but as it a malefic connecting to pluto I see it more as an ending.The forthcoming eclipse will occur over anns H1/H7 axis so a lot more info will come to light.
Jupiter rules ann's income and it is in dignity on the cusp of ann's eleventh of friends, organisations and hopes and wishes, but the sun separates from the trine to jupiter so the *other,* H7 is separating from her income.Mercury approaches a trine to jupiter though from her h6 to her h11 so maybe there will be some good news but as the sun rules the *other* it may not be as good for ann. jupiter is sextile the house cusp of the *other*, NOT Ann.
The moon applies to a conjunction with mars about to change sign in ann's fourth house- her home...if she can't afford the rent, she will have to move- and this is suggested by the moon's impending entry into gemini and also mars.
The venus coming to saturn suggests to me she will be offered *crumbs*- a pittance for her work. Her house 10 is ruled by mars and mars is not in good shape, square to venus (I don't think the company can/will be generous to ann) mars sep from square to saturn suggesting brutal decisionmaking, cutting of ties, restrictions imposed- all very recent.
I truly wish I had something really positive to say to Ann. She postponed her appt. to see me today re this as she said "I can't cope with any bad news today" so I said "Okay, see you when you're ready" I think she *knows* she is in for a tough time (and just when things were starting to look up for her too)
Hope someone else can see light at the end of the tunnel for her... Cheers, Lilly
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Hi Lilly! Yes, you are doing a good job yourself here! interpreting the chart. Pars is indeed passing the trine to the Sun, I always forget that Points move as well.It does not look good, that is true. Big changes coming up as well. My question is, when the business should be sold, are the new owners going on with this business or making something entirely different out of it? Where would all the old people go?
Venus in the sign of frugality is heading toward her ruler..debilitated
Yes, but Saturn is received by Mars because he is in the term AND face of Mars and Mars is her job. They like her. Of course Saturn is not strong in both the 5th and in Leo, but that is showing how Ann feels.Moon left square to the Sun, so there is no struggle with "the others" and Moon is applying to Mars , ruler of her 10th .Like I mentioned earlier on, when Mars and/or Saturn are significators, I have trouble seeing them as impediments. In this case, they are the Job and Ann. Ann (moves to) stays in the job.
Moon is exhaulted in Taurus! AND in the term of Jupiter. Ann's "end of the Matter house", is ruled by Venus, a benefic, even though retro and conjunct Saturn= Ann. This could show that she will be feeling very down and maybe in the new work she is given, limited in what she can do. Her Moon rules her 6th house of work and Moon is strongly positioned which also makes me think that she will not loose work.When Mars was squaring Saturn, it looked like she would loose the job, but Mars is moving out of that square. So they might want to keep her.
If you just look at Saturn as a big problem, then Mars, is leaving the troubles behind. There could be a solution. Maybe the outgoing inconjunct to the Sun could show an adjustment that was made.
Pluto, Uranus and Neptune are not used in classical horary. I only use them when they are significators or placed very near the Angels, i.o.w. when they are prominent. So in this chart Pluto is significator of Ann's job. The trine from Moon to Pluto is therefore OK. Psychologically seen, Ann will go through profound emotional changes. Pluto is in it's own term as well.
This chart is full of "maybe's", so maybe we should start giving points to the planets positions and then compare like Lilly does. I have never done this but can see. I really hope Ann will keep the job, even though the work might not be what she likes.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Unfortunately it also says: We ought to consider if evil planets be Significators (in this case Saturn and Mars....) in any thing, for if they predict evil in the thing quisited, the vengence is more heavy and if they foretell good, it will be less then expected. I find this a very difficult to judge chart, mainly because the Moon is so well placed and Jupiter as well. In the 11th house it could mean: there is hope! and as ruler of her 2nd house, also financially. So if that looks good, then it does not rhyme with loosing your job unless she will get a fantastic financial handshake !! Her ruler and the end of the matter all go to "the others", which to me feels like she will join them.
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Just to update everyone: Things are in total disarray at the querents workplace. Yes she still has her job and yes her hours have been increased, but the rosters have changed and the pays have not been going in on time or properly. As i write this the querent is very troubled as to her future when the new management takes over.....Will keep you posted on this.
Cheers, Lillyjgc
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Lilly! Thanks for letting us know. I was recently thinking about her. So she is still in the job. Lets see what happens when she works for the new managers. She should not worry too much. Worry will attract the problems you are worried about. Tell her to focus positively on the whole matter.
Wishing you and her a very good new year! May things work out well for her.
Cheers, Starlink
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Ok-Update-9 months down the track!
Currently there is a dispute going on between A's staff and the new *severely cost-cutting* management*...Complaints have been made about my friend's department's treatment of patients. My friend is very upset and has asked the following question which I will place here because it's *business arising* and linked to the previous question and I thought it might be easier for thse who assist me.
Her question is:*
How does the Management see /regard me?*

Here is the chart data:
May 01 2008
22:35
Sydney australia
01.30Aqu rising


My attempt to interpret the chart will follow.
Thanks, Lillyjgc
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
I take Ann as my friend to be H11 cusp-as Archergirl and Starlink have both explained in the posts above.
This makes Mars her ruler and this fits as as she was very angry when she called me. Apparently a junior member of staff has made unsubstantiated allegations against my friend's staff.They are serious allegations and the members have already approached their Union for legal advice.The remarks have been judged by a lawyer to be defamatory in nature. Obviously my friend is angry.The allegations have no basis in fact, and no breaches can actually be proven.A heated exchange has occurred between my friend and upper management in regard to these allegations.
Mars is located in her eighth house-shared resources- her salary I guess and she is wondering if her job is in jeopardy.
Her ruler mars has recently opposed jupiter which may describe the legal situation she now finds herself embroiled in.Mars is moving toward her ninth house cusp (turning the chart).
Her MC becomes cusp of h8, ruled by the sun. Saturn is there about to go direct (ie, take action).
Saturn represents the authorities and in virgo this relates well to carer's professions,and saturn is strengthened by being on her MC but mercury applies a square to saturn, from A's seventh house of enemies/rivals. As mercury is in taurus, a fixed sign, this could imply that ann has an enemy who is whispering in the ear of the authorities and will do so again. Soon mercury will move into the sign of its dignity, so this enemy may be believed initially, but mercury will go retrograde soon while in gemini so this person/mischief-maker could come unstuck.
So the authorities are ruled by the sun and the sun is in A's house of daily affairs (tending to the frail).The sun is void of course here, in venus's sign and venus is exalted in a's sixth, ruled by mars, and applying to a trine with saturn.
a's ruler, mars...how does mars relate to the management's ruler the sun?(how does the sun see mars?) In this chart, they can't see each other..the sun in venus sign, and venus exalted...(the management exalt themselves?)
Mars in fall in a's eighth in the moon's sign and the moon is in pisces...about to collide with uranus in a's fifth house.What could that mean? the rest aptly describes my friend's upset and emotional demeanour- she is a very caring and diligent pisces.This report has affected her badly.
The moon will and trine her ruler mars in 8 *somethings* (weeks)..Will it really take this long for her to be vindicated?
As the subtext in *will i lose my job* questions is often *will i go broke?*
I look to her second house ( ruled by stingy old saturn and pluto is right there!Venus in her sixth applies to a trine with pluto and is part of a grand trine between venus, saturn and pluto....
I think she will not lose her job as her fourth house-the outcome is ruled by saturn which is going direct. The node is there in aquarius so perhaps fate will take a hand in some way.
Help me.
Please.
Lillyjgc

There is no aspect between mars and the sun.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hello Lilly! Interesting to see a follow up on the first horary. I will give you an answer tomorrow as it is quite late here and I hardly slept last night, too upset about that Austrian incest affair. It really did something to me, dont understand why.
Just quickly, when reading over the other comments regarding the first question, you wrote that
Pars fortuna is faster than the sun
but Pars does not move. Frawley writes that parts and points dont move as they are not planets. In order for them to be significant they should either be conjunct or in opposition to a planet. It can not move faster than the Sun in other words. Just for you to know. I did not know this for a long time. Also Ascendant and MC should be seen as stationary points. William Lilly though did move the Asc. to a planet in one of his examples. So I have to experiment a bit with that one still.

Another thing. You wrote above that Ann is asking this new question, not you, so I think we should just take the Ascendant as being her, not the 11th house. That would be the case if you would ask the question for her. This is not the case here right? or did I misunderstood it? If I look back at the other question, it was actually also Ann who asked that 1st question and we interpreted it as if it was you also, asking about her, your friend, thus the 11th house. In fact, if she had asked that first question, we also should have taken the Ascendant as representing her. Mmmmm.... must look at that again.

Please let me know before I start delineating. Thanks!

OK, see you tomorrow.
Cheers, Starlink
 
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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
but Pars does not move. Frawley writes that parts and points dont move as they are not planets.

They move in the sense that they relocate from one part of the chart to another in a circular pattern that mimics the planets. However, you are right to differentiate planetary motion from point motion. Luna moves just because Luna moves. Fortuna moves because the positions of the Ascendant, Luna, and Sol move and modify the variables in Fortuna's formula, thus augmenting its position.
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Thanks Starlink and Kai,
I really WANTED to use the ascendant for ann as she herself asked the question but I thought that if I did it might appear that I was dismissing Archergirl's and your previous views (above) Star.(and she is my close friend)
Personally I always prefer to use the ascendant. I will take another look myself at this question, taking ann as the asc. and see what result that yields.Thanks for any help on this...
cheers Lillyjgc
 

archergirl

Well-known member
HI lillyjgc,

I would also use the Ascendant in the *2nd* question for Ann. The difference being, in your first question, it appeared that you were asking *for* Ann ('Will Ann lose her job?', not, 'Will *I* lose my job?'), so give her the 11th. In the 2nd, Ann herself is asking, thus, the 1st for her.

Cheers,
AG:)
 
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