Family and Group Karma

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I was looking at the Jigsaw program the other day, and I noticed a report on there analysing family karma. My family - myself partner and child, scored high in Virgo and Sagittarius. However she did use midpoints because we don't have a lot of Sagittarian planets. Particular aspects were highlighted for family karma, and so forth. I was the Saturnian in the family "karma drama". Obviously negative or positive energy towards one another can be seen in synastry. How do you read family charts as a whole system? Do you think there is a powerful element, aspect, issue that a family unit works through together? For example I noticed in my family, (before the one I created with my partner) Neptune in 4th is powerful, and this describes home, family, father. Do particular family members take on roles to help us all learn. I watched an episode on Dr Phil where the whole family used one member as a scapegoat for all of the family troubles. How would this been seen astrologically? What's your own take on Family or group karma. Do synastry conflicts show issues to be resolved between the family members, and can they be worked through? I watched the film My Sister's Keeper the other day, do you think from a karmic perspective the whole family has to work through deeper issues, or can they all teach one another lessons in such difficult times?

Surfing the net I found the following views upon this subject:

Family Karma

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Family Karmic Inheritance

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JayM

Well-known member
Our current family could be a manifestation of the karma of our previus lives, for example if we damaged the self-esteem on someone in our previus life then that could manifest in this life as uncaring parents for ourselves. The thing to remember is that I do not belive that our past lives are linked to the ancestry of our current incarnation, what I mean is that our past lives could have been in different cultures.

I do not really agree with the group karma inheratence because like I said our previus lives can be in different cultures, for example if your a french person in this life you could have been a chinese person in a previus life.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Shining Ray, I do think astrological signatures are passed down through generations. Liz Greene and Erin Sullivan are two astrologers who have traced charts of multiple generations.

I have a lot of interest in genealogy/family history, and have quite a few birth records to look at. I haven't had time yet to analyse them all, but just looking at 3 generations [parents, self/siblings, children] I have found strong sun-Pluto contacts. I also looked at 7 generations along my maternal line. Most of the women had moon-Mercury contacts, even allowing for my having no birth times for ancestors before my mother.

So it could be that some family destiny is being worked through the generations. The kicker will be to interpret what it means.
 

estrella

Well-known member
I've just started examining this issue using the charts of my own family. What I already have found is incredible and is totally blowing me away. Just more proof of astrology's value.
My parents are very controlling, authoritarian, rigid people. Their personalities made for an unpleasant home situation for me and my older brother and sister.
Interestingly, me, my much older bro and sis all have Venus in Aries within a range of a few degrees. Also, all of our 4/10 axis are very similar.

Me:
My father's Saturn is right on my Ascendant, and his Chiron is on my Venus. Also, my mother's Saturn is right on top of my Venus-and my Venus is on her Saturn. There was never a free flowing of love between us.
I have the heaviest Saturn contacts with them, and my relationship with our parents is far worse than my bro's and sis' relationship with them.

Brother:
My mother's Saturn is also right on top of my brother's Venus. Dad's Sun is right on top of bro's Saturn. Also, Dad's Chiron is on bro's Venus.

Sister:
Dad's Chiron is on her Venus as well. Also, his Node is conjunct her Node and her Pluto in the 4th. Mother's Saturn is of course on her Venus as well.

I'm really amazed at what I've found so far and will be digging deeper. All of this Saturn, Chiron, and Venus energy really represents the situation-amazing.
 
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I never saw these replies, and thought the post was ignored. I shall read your replies now - big smile :smile:. I read an interesting book today on a similar theme.
 
Our current family could be a manifestation of the karma of our previus lives, for example if we damaged the self-esteem on someone in our previus life then that could manifest in this life as uncaring parents for ourselves. The thing to remember is that I do not belive that our past lives are linked to the ancestry of our current incarnation, what I mean is that our past lives could have been in different cultures.

I read the 12th house or the 8th house deals with family karma, I suppose if you did damage someone else's self-esteem, you could be born to uncaring parents. There could be a variety of reasons of why we choose the lives we do. Perhaps certain environments help in our development. Our past life could be from a very different culture.

I do not really agree with the group karma inheratence because like I said our previus lives can be in different cultures, for example if your a french person in this life you could have been a chinese person in a previus life.

Group karma can still be Karma, I read a few books which said often group karma can involve family where we all changed roles, mother-father-child. This is all non-fact and only ideas to play with. I am not saying any of it is the truth. :smile:
 
Shining Ray, I do think astrological signatures are passed down through generations. Liz Greene and Erin Sullivan are two astrologers who have traced charts of multiple generations.

I believe it too, I have noticed in Liz Greene's astrological readings, she emphasises that you take on the task of fulfilling the parents challenges in life. In her book Astrology of Fate she named Pluto and Greek mythologies where the sins of the mothers and fathers, in past generations are revisited on the children. She particularly pointed out Pluto in the 4th house. My son has this placement conjunct his 4th house cusp and square his Sun-Mercury in 1st/12th house.

I have a lot of interest in genealogy/family history, and have quite a few birth records to look at. I haven't had time yet to analyse them all, but just looking at 3 generations [parents, self/siblings, children] I have found strong sun-Pluto contacts. I also looked at 7 generations along my maternal line. Most of the women had moon-Mercury contacts, even allowing for my having no birth times for ancestors before my mother.

Yes, If an aspect is repeated in the family line it can be important that one individual tries to heal the past. the cycle of abuse is an example of something unresolved which can get passed through the family line, until it is finally resolved (Pluto may be a factor here). Alcoholism or escapism, illness, suffering, martyrdom, schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease could come down the line through Neptune. It is fascinating and also unnerving to see what is carried down through the family. My mothers side of the family are the "martyrs" a little crazy (not like me before you say it :whistling:). I have Moon conjunct Mercury square Neptune in 4th and trines to Uranus. However, what is interesting is that my father's line is ruled by my Sun and is opposed to Saturn these are the repressed, depressive, and more inhibited side of my father's family. Although my siblings aspects will tell a different story. The I.C -M.C axis needs to be examined.

So it could be that some family destiny is being worked through the generations. The kicker will be to interpret what it means.

I do believe we work on all the family karma drama, even if we never started it, so to speak. Rhyme and reason.
 
I've just started examining this issue using the charts of my own family. What I already have found is incredible and is totally blowing me away. Just more proof of astrology's value.
My parents are very controlling, authoritarian, rigid people. Their personalities made for an unpleasant home situation for me and my older brother and sister.
Interestingly, me, my much older bro and sis all have Venus in Aries within a range of a few degrees. Also, all of our 4/10 axis are very similar.

Wow what a similarity, you all share similar aspects. It does make you think that perhaps you are working on a family issue together.

Me:
My father's Saturn is right on my Ascendant, and his Chiron is on my Venus. Also, my mother's Saturn is right on top of my Venus-and my Venus is on her Saturn. There was never a free flowing of love between us.
I have the heaviest Saturn contacts with them, and my relationship with our parents is far worse than my bro's and sis' relationship with them.

Brother:
My mother's Saturn is also right on top of my brother's Venus. Dad's Sun is right on top of bro's Saturn. Also, Dad's Chiron is on bro's Venus.

Sister:
Dad's Chiron is on her Venus as well. Also, his Node is conjunct her Node and her Pluto in the 4th. Mother's Saturn is of course on her Venus as well.

You have worked through the charts :smile:, and you did a good job of spotting the themes. Your points on Saturn are very interesting. My mother's Saturn squares my Saturn on my Asc. And she was the disciplinarian. You had two parents Saturn's. You definitely had Saturnian family karma. I worry about my synastry with my own child, and I have never looked at it too deeply, but I should analyse what energy is between us, and this can enable me to be more conscious and aware of the issues that could present themselves in the future.

I'm really amazed at what I've found so far and will be digging deeper. All of this Saturn, Chiron, and Venus energy really represents the situation-amazing.

It really is interesting the patterns you have found in the family, and you have the tool of astrology to help shed light on these family issues of authority and control.
 

estrella

Well-known member
I worry about my synastry with my own child, and I have never looked at it too deeply, but I should analyse what energy is between us, and this can enable me to be more conscious and aware of the issues that could present themselves in the future.

I think you'll be fine. You have the tools to be a far more enlightened parent than mine were. So even if you have Saturnian energy with your child you could consciously choose to manifest it more positively with guidance, reasonable limitations, and constructive teaching.



It really is interesting the patterns you have found in the family, and you have the tool of astrology to help shed light on these family issues of authority and control.

Yeah. I think I'm finally ready to really delve into this. I've been doing astrology for many years and have done family analysis for others-I just wanted to put these things behind me and never look at them again, so I didn't do my own family synastry. But now I see this as an excellent opportunity for some astrological research, and for some healing and self discovery too.
 
You are right enlightenment is the key (Astrology) perhaps if your parents were more aware things may have changed, but the past can never be changed, maybe only our perspective on it, or the lessons we have learned. Move forward with your family research, you have revealed very dynamic patterns in your family, and as you say it can lead to self understanding. :wink:
 

lilllybelle

Well-known member
I definately believe in family karma. I'd always thought the planetary positions I inherited from my family were similar to my genetic inheritance. I'd never considered that I was being given an opportunity to work out some of my family's karma.

Here is a piece of my family's astrological signature:

Mama has Mars at 10' libra conjuct her south node at 7' libra.
I have mars and venus in aries conjunct my south node opposing my moon. I also have pluto at 11' libra.
Daddy's north node is at 11' libra.
My two older sisters' mars are opposed to their venuses.

Daddy and his mother were both born on Sep. 12th. I am a virgo rising.
There is also some play with Daddy and my sisters all having oppositions in their chart, between the signs of leo and acquarius, involving the moon, mars and venus. I also have a opposition in my chart involving the moon, mars and venus- but in aries and libra.

There also seems to be an emphasis in cardinal signs coming from my mother's side of the family.

So to sum things up, my family is slightly fixed on the 10th and 11th degree of libra. We also seem to be into oppositions involving the moon, mars, the nodes and venus.

I can definately see me continuing the karmic work of my mother.
 
Hi Lilly,

I do believe we come into family groups for a reason, and perhaps the patterns we picked up from Mom & Dad through Sun & Moon aspects can indicate what we are challenged with. I have a Sun-Saturn and Moon-Neptune for hard aspects. Very different parental images, I will have to check through the charts for more repeated aspects you are all finding. :smile:
 

kazman32

Well-known member
I feel like I inherited a lot of my fathers 'problems' and my brother got all the good qualities of my mother(hard working,stable etc...) not trying to cry or ***** about it because it is was it is, but I fell like he definitely got the better hand when it comes to life(things are easier for him) my father committed suicide did I inherit some of his burdens to carry through life??? I don;t know, and again no complaining here just adding in my own personal experience.
 

rudadaria

Well-known member
I heard, that family karma is when the water house is full, like stellum in water house. I have three planets in my 4th house in Scorpio intercepted. Until now I don't have any idea what is it all about, no access at all. Maybe because of waiting for 1st Saturn return.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In the same esoteric tradition which I mentioned in my post regarding the "3 sealings" under the "Entrance of the soul seen astrologically" thread (Natal Astrology), it is believed that the "family karma" becomes imprinted in the 1st "sealing" following conception. The old term for this was "blood-line karma"; in animals, this largely dominates the being (ie, the passed-on fundamental but ultimately celestially originated qualities and tendencies), with only minor conditioning/qualifying celestial influences added (or emphasized) at the natus. In humans (according to this tradition) the influence of the birth time celestial conditioning/qualifying influences is much greater than in animals, however, it is believed in this outlook that the most signficant pre-natal influence is that of the combination of blood-line karma + the celestial state at the moment of the first sealing.


Just thought I'd add the method this tradition uses in determining the "blood-line" karma (from the celestial influence point of view)

a) the natal charts of mother and father are obtained (if not obtainable method cannot be applied);

b) each chart is progressed up until the birthday IN THE YEAR PRIOR to the birthdate of the child (I understand that 1yr=1degree is used for this progression);

c) only the planets (and "rahu and ketu", ie, the lunar nodes) are progressed (not the cusps, mc, or any other spatial points)
(the tradition only considered the 7 planets and nodes; however, there is nothing to prevent including the outer planets in the calculation);

d) now, for each planet (and node), compare that planet's position in each of the parental charts, then calculate that planet's midpoint (based on the parental charts)-this planet is then placed at its midpoint degree in the "blood-line karma" chart; for ease of setting up this chart, start with the midpoint degree of the Sun: the "blood-line karma" chart places the midpoint degree position of the Sun in the 1st house, the remaining signs following around in zodiacal order-just like in a "solar horoscope" chart.

Completing these calculations and chart placements you now have the "blood-line karma" chart. In this tradition-when the location of the mother at the exact time of each of the 3 pre-birth sealings in not known-the "blood-line karma" chart serves the purpose of illuminating the pre-natal epoch.
 
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Mark

Well-known member
There is a crucial element that is being left out of this thread. Karma can only ever be sensibly discussed in the context of reincarnation. Without reincarnation, karma can only apply to one life and that ends with an unacceptable concept of the Universe. Let me try a biblical example. It isn't necessary to accept any particular scripture in order to illustrate the point.

In the book of Genesis, it is written that God visits the sins of the fathers onto the sons, even unto the third and fourth generations. If reincarnation is a fact, then this verse means that whoever brings sin into the family will be reborn in 3 or 4 generations to literally inherit and live under the bad circumstances he created himself. If there is no reincarnation, then God is punishing people who never did anything wrong and thus God is unnecessarily vindictive and spiteful. Given the two options, I have to side with the first interpretation.

You are not made to suffer for things you haven't done. In fact, you are born into your family because that was the position that would best allow you to meet the karma you've already built for yourself. This is one of the many ways in which the Universe helps nudge you forward developmentally. What kind of senseless Universe would inflict karmic retribution on a different person than the one who offended? This leaves us to answer one question: Does the Universe operate in a sensible way or is it senseless? It only takes one senseless action to say that an otherwise rational person is acting irrationally. Given that the Universe is provably causal, I have to say that it is also sensible and therefore can be known and understood. If you don't believe the Universe can be understood, then there's really no reason to ever have this conversation.

The bottom line is that karma is never shifted from person to person. Your karma will always be your karma until you settle it. Your father's karma may effect you, just as his bad decisions effect you, but it isn't your debt to pay.
 
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midnight sun

Well-known member
I believe in family karma more than past lives. I'll tell my experience of it.

Mine is more about discovering problems in my family roots. My NN conjuncts Venus in 8th house and in oppositon to Saturn in 2nd and both squares Jupiter in 4th.

In September 2008, Saturn started to trine my NN and Venus. I found myself at astrology course and energy works. But before going to my first energy work, I called some of my family members from mother's side to learn if something weird happened to anyone in my family past.(My teacher and master has told me that the things happened in the family past is important so that was the reason of my searching)

I learned nothing significant but at that night I saw an interesting dream.(I have to say that I never see nightmares in my life) My dream told me that a grandpa in the family past didn't die normally. Although he has a long time for living, he dies because of a curse made. (it's a curse which is made with soap and thrown into a shaft then) It was a terrific dream and when I woke up I shievered for a while. It's energy stays in me the next day. I couldn't sleep the next night, when I closed my eyes, I was seeing faces, words, things like that, I slept with my mother that night.:biggrin:

Then, for 2-3 months, I saw really interesting dreams. Mostly about my family roots. After a month or two from my first dream I told above, I saw another one. And in this one, I was told that the other people who made the curse in the past is dead now because my subconscious has influence on them. After that dream, a few days later, in my , in my mother's and in my aunt's dream, we both saw a celebration made in the family without knowing each other or knowing the situation.

I have to cut it short. After that I go on seeing other things but I'm highly obsessed and had to go to a doctor. I had to say that I was doing energy work for increasing fire element in me, try to open the root chakra and when I stopped it, dreams are also stopped, too. But I feel there is still something unsolved.

For interpretation, my North node and south node both are both in connection with 4th house, family roots. As Saturn effects it, it means I can't be able to fed from my family, there is an obstacle. And I have to solve it. Also 8th house is about death and my dream was about a dead of someone from family past. Also when Saturn conjuncted my NN in 1999-2000, I committed suicide. So NN in 8th house has something to solve about death for sure.

But there is another thing, as my Chiron is also in 8th and Venus, I think there is a problem with love, feminity and sexuality. When I look at the women's life in my family, they all have problems with marriage and love. And I have, too. I don't know how to solve it but I'll try it.

And almost all of my family members are passive and shy. I'm the first one who tries to break it, so there is a connection for sure. And also most them are bad at showing love-again Venus-Saturn aspect.

I'm examining my mother's and father's chart, and I think my chart is the mix version of them. There are so many common things.

I believe the duty of solving family problem is given to me. I feel them soo in the surface and my everday life is almost passes with trying to solve psychological problems.

Thanks for reading this, for me it's an important thing to share my experience.
 

Lion o ness

Well-known member
DR.. F.....

I understand what your saying, but (for me personally) I was passed on the family blood line karma (as it seems)... Or maybe I passed it.. Drugs seems to be a big issue n my family..

My mom, moved me from all family members.. It was just me and her my entire life... Then once I got of School, she turned to drugs...
I then disconnected my self, and she eventually moved back home... Moving 3k miles away..

Now I do have the "drug aspects"
Pisces Asc
Mars sq neptune
Neptune sq Asc (widely though, prob too wide)

Yet I have no desire, or do any drugs.. I barely even drink.. Its rare for me..
Ive gone years w/o drinking..

What does that say about family karma??? I will later in life?? Or I passed the karma, by being away from family? What do you think?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Well, we have 2 factors: the blood-line karma and the individual karma; in your case, I think that your karma as an individual superceded the blood-line karma bequeathed to you: this often happens with humans (rarely with animals)...
 
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