Planetary Casting

byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Hi,

this is one of those times that the search didn't show anything on this, and it's initially a small question..

I'm looking for more information on a term I learned a long time ago - casting. This is, when two planets are in aspect, the faster moving planet is directing it's energy/functions to the recipient planet.

I cannot find where I learned this, or more information. Anyone know much about this? It's one of those fundamentals that need consideration in every judgement I guess.

Thanks :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
byjove said:
Hi,

this is one of those times that the search didn't show anything on this, and it's initially a small question..

I'm looking for more information on a term I learned a long time ago - casting. This is, when two planets are in aspect, the faster moving planet is directing it's energy/functions to the recipient planet.

I cannot find where I learned this, or more information. Anyone know much about this? It's one of those fundamentals that need consideration in every judgement I guess.

Thanks :smile:
Click to expand...
Perhaps what you read was 'casting an aspect' perchance byjove :smile:
 
kimbermoon

kimbermoon

Well-known member
Perhaps this relates to the differentiation between an aspect that is culminating, or one that is receding in influence? Those that are receding are passing away; ones that are culminating have more influence on the present:sideways:
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Yikes! We've all come up with something! :lol:

Does that mean that if you see say the Sun square Jupiter natally, for example, that you wouldn't consider the Sun bringing the direction/energy to Jupiter (like a finger pointing)? In that case, the Sun clearly 'moves' more swiftly so I believed that the Sun would always direct it's energy toward Jupiter in this contact e.g. energy/willpower/action/identity ---used overoptimistically, excessively, in initiating plans/in day to day affairs. I would not have considered the reverse.

If I can't find the origin of that idea, I'll have to shed it and replace it with something firm and clear. (I wondered was it related to the dexter/sinister idea)
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
Ivy Goldstein Jacobson describes this in her introductory volume entitled CORRESPONDENCE COURSE IN ASTROLOGY. I believe its on page 57, and again on page 65.

I can't put my fingers on that volume, its the 8 x 11 blackpaperback volume. its in my house somewhere. She also talks about naming the faster moving planet first on page 19 in SIMPLIFIED HORARY ASTROLOGY.

Quite honestly, I've found it to be splitting a hair that doesn't seem to be there. Both planets affect each other and their respective houses. I've found it more impactive that the stronger or more frictionfull of the two planets has the greater impact on the other one, rather than just movement. Of course, you have to be aware that if the planet is swifter moving then its effect will be short in duration. A swift bite of hot pepper will seem less a problem than if you bite into one and then proceed to chew it up!
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Thanks Zarathu, I appreciate that. I did find some astrologers focus more on which planet has essential dignity in order to 'direct' the energy one way or another. Thanks to everyone who had a look around.

So does everyone else here consider the energies as multi-directional? Casting is not one way? I'm considering this really in the natal context. Now I'm going to re-consider my natal aspects, but in reverse, to get the fuller picture!! :joyful:
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
I don't know if it helps at all jove, but my understanding of aspect theory suggests that a couple of different concepts are being discussed here.

Casting rays is similar to planetary orb, if it is easier to consider it that way. Planets cast rays;points like the ASC, lots, and fixed stars do not cast anything because they don't have "rays" or light.

In Helenistic and early Persian astrology there were three ways in which planets could make aspects. By sign (and Ptolemaic aspects were all that were considered), within 15 degrees, and within 3 degrees which was called "striking."

It is the faster planet that makes the aspect, and the ones to really watch for are applying aspects. This is where we get into what I believe to be the other part of your question, specifically which planet will dominate the aspect. Mostly I've seen traditional astrologers go with the idea that the planet further along in the diurnal cycle is the dominant planet, but this doesn't take into consideration whether the aspect is dexter or sinister, and really leaves out the concept of "pushing." There are several threads over at skyscript about pushing (planets can push nature, power, and management--reception will tell you which and whether or not it can be effective, or is reflected back...)

There is also a wonderful section in Ben Dyke's Introductions to Traditional Astrology about interplanetary aspects and relationships
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Hello T!

I think you may have found it...the faster planet making the aspect (I've also read the planet closer to the Sun, just another way of saying the same thing). In this way, is it the faster aspect directing energy? Is this medieval or ancient do you know?

Whatever the case, it seems that it's a particular idea that not everyone uses. I didn't realise I'd built such an eclectic collection :innocent: When I know more I'll be able to double-check this and verify if I still wish to use this method.
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
byjove said:
Hello T!

I think you may have found it...the faster planet making the aspect (I've also read the planet closer to the Sun, just another way of saying the same thing). In this way, is it the faster aspect directing energy? Is this medieval or ancient do you know?

Whatever the case, it seems that it's a particular idea that not everyone uses. I didn't realise I'd built such an eclectic collection :innocent: When I know more I'll be able to double-check this and verify if I still wish to use this method.
Click to expand...

I just went back and re-read what Dykes says of pushing. Yes, it is the applying planet that "pushes." He makes no reference to any astrologers prior to the Persians using these concepts, so I don't know if it is something the Greeks and older astrologers considered...but define "ancient" lol. He does say that "pushing" died out in translations after the 12th century, so I would say that what happened was the entire philosophy behind it was abrieviated so that we got to the medieval astrologers, down to today, going with the idea that it is the applying planet that directs the energy. Which is a shame, really.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
byjove said:
Hello T!

I think you may have found it...the faster planet making the aspect (I've also read the planet closer to the Sun, just another way of saying the same thing). In this way, is it the faster aspect directing energy? Is this medieval or ancient do you know?

Whatever the case, it seems that it's a particular idea that not everyone uses. I didn't realise I'd built such an eclectic collection :innocent: When I know more I'll be able to double-check this and verify if I still wish to use this method.
Click to expand...
You may have read it on Skyscript Glossary of Traditional Astrological Terms byjove :smile:

QUOTE:

"Application - although in a general sense the term 'applying' is used for any planet moving towards the conjunction or aspect of another, in strict terminology a planet is said to be 'in application' or 'applying' to another when the planets are within orb of aspect and moving towards perfection (exactness).

Planetary motion must be considered, for if a planet is retrograde an aspect that appears to be applying towards exactness may in fact be separating, and if a planet is about to turn retrograde an aspect that is currently in a state of application may fail to perfect.....' source: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/application.html


“….Usually one planet is moving more quickly than the other...
...and this planet is said to be making the application or casting the aspect. The slower planet receives the influence.

If the slower moving planet is retrograde or turns retrograde before the aspect perfects, the planets are said to be mutually applying to each other.....”
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
tsmall said:
I don't know if it helps at all jove, but my understanding of aspect theory suggests that a couple of different concepts are being discussed here.

Casting rays is similar to planetary orb, if it is easier to consider it that way. Planets cast rays;points like the ASC, lots, and fixed stars do not cast anything because they don't have "rays" or light.

In Helenistic and early Persian astrology there were three ways in which planets could make aspects. By sign (and Ptolemaic aspects were all that were considered), within 15 degrees, and within 3 degrees which was called "striking."

It is the faster planet that makes the aspect, and the ones to really watch for are applying aspects. This is where we get into what I believe to be the other part of your question, specifically which planet will dominate the aspect. Mostly I've seen traditional astrologers go with the idea that the planet further along in the diurnal cycle is the dominant planet, but this doesn't take into consideration whether the aspect is dexter or sinister, and really leaves out the concept of "pushing." There are several threads over at skyscript about pushing (planets can push nature, power, and management--reception will tell you which and whether or not it can be effective, or is reflected back...)

There is also a wonderful section in Ben Dyke's Introductions to Traditional Astrology about interplanetary aspects and relationships
Click to expand...
Thanks for highlighting this aspect of Hellenistic astrology tsmall :smile:
Astrologer Alan White who died recently at the age of 69 - online memorial at: http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/whitealan.html describes the Hellenistic idea as follows:


"Hellenistically, planets can only ’see’ forward in the direction of the zoidia. They cannot look backwards. Hence all aspects (to see) must be forward; there cannot be a rearward aspect.

For example, any planet in Aries will aspect any planet in Cancer; any planet in Cancer will hurl its ray at any planet in Aries. The planet in Aries is in superior position to the planet in Cancer, and directs the activities of that planet"


"The planet in inferior position is ’tithed’ or reduced in strength by 10%. Although somewhat weakened, it hurls its ray backward and can be considered to create a negative or malefic condition. Consider an angular planet (7th place) having dignity yet contrary to the sect in favor hurling its ray at an cadent (3rd place) planet without any strength.

It therefore matters in both natal and transit conditions who is superior and what the strengths are"
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
I always regard the faster, applying planet as the active agent in the conjunction or aspect, and the planet receiving the conjunction or aspect as being the passive element in the equation: however, active and passive ultimately form a "unit" and there is a net result of the mixture of the 2, this net also modified by the quality of each element and the modulation of that quality by the nature of the relationship (ie by the nature of the aspect or conjunction) formed; what about seperating aspects (or seperating conjunctions)? In my opinion it is still the faster planet, which in this case now withdraws from the relationship and this "passing off" modifies the net effects of the relationship.
 
byjove

byjove

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So, it seems that this isn't commonly used in modern astrology at least? It's origins lying in medieval or ancient practice?

I'm really glad I bought this up, do you notice some of your earlier practices become so automatic that you haven't noticed that it might be quite different to popular usage?
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
byjove said:
So, it seems that this isn't commonly used in modern astrology at least? It's origins lying in medieval or ancient practice?

I'm really glad I bought this up, do you notice some of your earlier practices become so automatic that you haven't noticed that it might be quite different to popular usage?
Click to expand...
The fact that it is the faster moving planet 'casting the aspect' is an Horary astrology term much in use today as is evidenced by Deborah Houldings very generously free Horary Basics Astrology Course http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/application.html :smile:
 
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