The Saturn Effect

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Of all the planets in our universe, none causes so much consternation and fascination as Saturn. It is the second largest planet in our solar system, composed primarily of liquid hydrogen and helium, helping to propel volitile hurricain-force winds over its oblate spheroid surface. And of all the planets, it is perhaps the most beautiful with its ring system (Earth aside). Despite being the least dense planet, it is almost 100 times the mass of Earth. Nevertheless, it is "dense" in many other ways. It can weigh heavily on our lives, the old grizzled task master of life, but I wonder what is the quality of its influence. Literature is replete with characterizations of Saturn as the planet that conveys structure and limitation. It is described as a restricting force in the universe. But is it really?

I was wondering what your experiences have been with Saturn, how it has affected you, your life and the ones whom you know. How heavily has Saturn weighed in on your personality and life's journey?
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
A transit of Saturn over my natal Sun brought serious illness, with consequences reaching into other areas of life.

A transit across the horizon resulted in marriage. Ouch. Saturn lord of 7th entered 7th, in close company with Venus and Mars--solar return. Marriage involves responsibility and is limiting (ask any married man whose glance has strayed....)

A transit through the Second House exactly coincided with a long period of severe financial restriction. Within 2 days of its egress from the Second (a weekend intervened) two large debts were liquidated and unexpected income was received. As Saturn entered the Second, and crossed over Pluto who occupies the cusp, minor legal problems resulted in loss of money, loss of personal liberty (not jail, but constrained movement) and other restrictive annoyance during six months or so (the time that Saturn danced with Pluto).

A client had an opposition of Moon to Saturn natally (9th to 4th) and when the opposition perfected by solar arc direction, the boy was abandoned by his mother, who joined another man in a foreign country, and as eldest child in the now motherless family was saddled with heavy responsibilities as a surrogate parent.

Another client responded to an exact transiting mundane square of Saturn/Pluto over his natal angles (accompanied, to the day, by the ingress of secondary progressed Moon into the intercepted sign in his Twelfth House) with arrest and serious legal problems. The problem had originated some 5 years earlier, and only at the time of Pluto's transit over the MC did it come to light.
 

gen6k

Well-known member
saturn through the houses has a process. for example entering in to the 4th, there would be disruption of the home, perhaps a move, then more limiting is made by certain "root" factors if responsibility is not taken when in need, afterwards a secure base starts developing and instread of moving for example its just really steady instead. the place where saturn is located is also the place that has a lot of weight, perhaps more time spent at home, or recollecting the past.
 

Blackempress

Well-known member
I have a heavily affected chart by Saturn & really despite the depression & bleakness it causes over my life I credit it to keep me 'grounded' & has been the reason I've achieved most of what I have otherwise have no earth on my chart.

I have Natal Saturn in 7th, Libra, exalted. It conjuncts Pluto & Mars & Squares Sun all by tight Orbs. It has shown me that Hard-work/persistence can be used to gain ANYTHING. As a Sun-Saturn, I have always feared being incompetent so end up over-working, over-learning things in comparison to others & find out in the end that people aren't even half as good as I am. Others take the lead while I wait unsure of myself. I have always been good at everything I had touched from arts-academics but never had enough confidence in my abilities. But after the recent Saturn Return, I'm beginning to see the ghosts are not real & that I am only in competition with myself which has lead me to become an authority on my life & convictions. (Not blind to others thanks to Libran Moon).

Mars in Detriment conj Saturn Suppressed the natural energy anyways making assertion difficult unless thought out properly. There's alot of energy but alot of frustration too. Feel drained out quickly when efforts don't give results. Had a love for daggers/knives since childhood so enjoy doing surgery now. (Mars-Saturn is an aspect for the Surgeons who need controlled penetration).

Saturn-Pluto I've never paid much attention to bec of the generational effect but it means 'buried wealth' & something to do with recycling the old. Perhaps once my mission becomes clearer I might discover what this is about.

But Saturn does leave me out cold in the relationships & I find them burdensome, unfulfiling where my emotions have no place. Being in the house of marriage, (and darn Libra) I long for a partner to share my life/interests with. But along with pluto in libra there's a lot of fear of it. Disappointments are a sure parcel of Saturn in 7th hence the association of depression.

But I am thankful for it's presence.


I recently had it Transit thru my 7th where I've become a Stranger to everyone around me. (Uranus Opp Moon 1- 7th to help) & have been longing for a committed relationship. (Don't see it happening anytime soon). I'm more afraid of Saturn entering Scorpio of my 8th. I have no business relationships but am not looking fwd to the 2 years of deep depression with 8th house now.:unsure:
 
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Multiplicity

Active member
as saturn entered libra, my two year engagement ended at the end of an 8th house transit...

from there I traveled the country as it went into the 9th house...seeking to regain my balance...my south node is in the 9th and jupiter/north node are in aries in the third...luckily this was in tandem with a jupiter return so the trip went better than planned though I did not make it over seas as planned...

I had many doomed relationships during this time that were doomed to fail from their inception but I did learn much from them...I also am back in school towards the end of this transit as I have learned how not having a degree has limited upward momentum in my career...

at twenty five I don't recall the details of previous transits but I do know he was cresting into that 8th house at 22 degrees leo when I got a dui...which through the subsequent community service, ended up being one of the more transformative experiences in my life...

I'm very weary of his movement across my 10th as I have moon, pluto, and mc all conjunct making hard aspects to mars and venus...those three also make a trine to mercury and I think my dreamy piscean mind will be the only thing that can save me from the harsh realities of saturn...
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
A transit of Saturn over my natal Sun brought serious illness, with consequences reaching into other areas of life.

Sorry to hear that. Has the illness resolved? I hope you have fully recovered!

So your condition before Saturn was that of health, and after the transit, you become ill. The effect was certainly malefic, and judging by Saturn's transit over your Sun, which classically indicates "life" as well as having a salubrious effect on its subjects. But with the Saturn transit, the effect seemed to turn the Sun's influence into its opposite, causing an insalubrious effect. Was the change in health sudden by chance?

A transit across the horizon resulted in marriage. Ouch.

Ha ha

Saturn lord of 7th entered 7th, in close company with Venus and Mars--solar return. Marriage involves responsibility and is limiting (ask any married man whose glance has strayed....)

Saturn here again seemed to bring a change in condition of your present state into its opposite. Whether this was a malefic experience, I am sure opinions will differ, depending on one's view of marriage. But you were single, and then you married, going from bachelor to husband. Once again, there was a change in condition.

I do not think the limiting effect of marriage can be ascribed to Saturn because the condition of marriage was the proximate effect rather than the effect of Saturn's influence. In that sense, the limiting factor was more of the condition imposed by Venus and the Seventh, propelled into your experience by Saturn's influence. That's how I see it.

A transit through the Second House exactly coincided with a long period of severe financial restriction. Within 2 days of its egress from the Second (a weekend intervened) two large debts were liquidated and unexpected income was received. As Saturn entered the Second, and crossed over Pluto who occupies the cusp, minor legal problems resulted in loss of money, loss of personal liberty (not jail, but constrained movement) and other restrictive annoyance during six months or so (the time that Saturn danced with Pluto).

Interesting. That certainly lends support to its restrictive quality. But it also seems to turn the quality of one's state of being into its opposite. I imagine that you were doing well financially before Saturn entered your second house and formed an aspect with Pluto. Additionally, the changes are for the worse, causing disruption and loss, be it loss of finance or health. Although, the issue of marriage could be considered beneficial. I do not know what your position on marriage was at the time, but I assume you were welcoming it because you did indeed marry.

A client had an opposition of Moon to Saturn natally (9th to 4th) and when the opposition perfected by solar arc direction, the boy was abandoned by his mother, who joined another man in a foreign country, and as eldest child in the now motherless family was saddled with heavy responsibilities as a surrogate parent.

Wow! That's another terrible situation. And it makes perfect sense with the opposition inducing separation from his mother (Moon). Saturn, once again, taketh away.

Another client responded to an exact transiting mundane square of Saturn/Pluto over his natal angles (accompanied, to the day, by the ingress of secondary progressed Moon into the intercepted sign in his Twelfth House) with arrest and serious legal problems. The problem had originated some 5 years earlier, and only at the time of Pluto's transit over the MC did it come to light.

It always seems that the planets have the most profound effect on the angles, specifically and especially the ascendant (inclusive of the 12th) and MC.

These are really great case examples Greybeard! Thank you very much for sharing. :smile:
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
saturn through the houses has a process. for example entering in to the 4th, there would be disruption of the home, perhaps a move, then more limiting is made by certain "root" factors if responsibility is not taken when in need, afterwards a secure base starts developing and instread of moving for example its just really steady instead. the place where saturn is located is also the place that has a lot of weight, perhaps more time spent at home, or recollecting the past.

So in your experience, the effect of Saturn has been one of disruption, which creates certain limiting conditions as a result of said disruption. So in essence, it has be an uprooting of one's condition, or better yet, a destruction of one's foundations, which results in one having to lay down foundations anew.

I suppose there is a limiting effect, a proximate effect, but it seems that the primary effect is disruption, an uprooting and turning things on its head. Don't you think so?

Thanks for sharing, Gen6K!
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Saturn does cause consternation but fascination? It is the planet of the reality bite, taking responsibility, copping your karma and reaping what you sow. Every 29 years it makes a return and major events happen then. We are forced to mature, to take the losses that sometimes happen and are inevitable. II learned astrology on my first return at 29 and began to realise I was not a victim of fate but to take responsibility for what happens to me. I have Saturn conjunct Mercury and sextile Neptune. There may have been other transits affecting my Uranus as well, as the planet of astrology and conjunct NN in Gemini.

My second return I lost my sister (Saturn conjunct Mercury) and much more and was very difficult with health issues as Saturn is in the 6th. It forced me to get real about my diet and my health in general. I suffer from chronic digestive problems which I have to live with. Came close to wanting to die, but I am still here as suicide solves nothing.
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
I have a heavily affected chart by Saturn & really despite the depression & bleakness it causes over my life I credit it to keep me 'grounded' & has been the reason I've achieved most of what I have otherwise have no earth on my chart.

Yeah. I remember seeing Saturn in your seventh house. I believe Mars was there, too. I suppose I could look, but I'm pretty sure. (Oh. See below. :smile:) There's nothing like resistance to make a person stronger. (That's my gym philosophy, as well.) There is strength in adversity.

I'm glad to hear this. I know medical school is a challenge and takes enormous dedication and time expenditure (and money!). That is something that you can real feel a sense of achievement over. And all the other achievements you have that I am unaware of!

Here are some good quotes that I think are pretty cool and pertinent.

The robbed that smiles, steals something from the thief. ~William Shakespeare, Othello

I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders. ~Jewish Proverb

I have Natal Saturn in 7th, Libra, exalted. It conjuncts Pluto & Mars & Squares Sun all by tight Orbs. It has shown me that Hard-work/persistence can be used to gain ANYTHING. As a Sun-Saturn, I have always feared being incompetent so end up over-working, over-learning things in comparison to others & find out in the end that people aren't even half as good as I am. Others take the lead while I wait unsure of myself. I have always been good at everything I had touched from arts-academics but never had enough confidence in my abilities. But after the recent Saturn Return, I'm beginning to see the ghosts are not real & that I am only in competition with myself which has lead me to become an authority on my life & convictions. (Not blind to others thanks to Libran Moon).

Confidence "in detriment" can be a person's greatest fault. I imagine this is the primary culprit for your frustrations with the MLE. I know this because I too have doubted myself. Lack of confidence can really undermine one's abilities because it is as if a person is operating at 50 percent or stuck in second gear. It stymies one's full potential.

Mars in Detriment conj Saturn Suppressed the natural energy anyways making assertion difficult unless thought out properly. There's alot of energy but alot of frustration too. Feel drained out quickly when efforts don't give results. Had a love for daggers/knives since childhood so enjoy doing surgery now. (Mars-Saturn is an aspect for the Surgeons who need controlled penetration).

This makes sense. I can see your having variations in your levels of energy expenditure. I also see this influence with Saturn and Mars causing periods of low levels of confidence or a lack of being self-assertive. I see this as the reason you mentioned above for your not asserting yourself when you know full well how capable your are.

Saturn-Pluto I've never paid much attention to bec of the generational effect but it means 'buried wealth' & something to do with recycling the old. Perhaps once my mission becomes clearer I might discover what this is about.

Let us know when you do! I'd be interested as well. :smile:

But Saturn does leave me out cold in the relationships & I find them burdensome, unfulfiling where my emotions have no place. Being in the house of marriage, (and darn Libra) I long for a partner to share my life/interests with. But along with pluto in libra there's a lot of fear of it. Disappointments are a sure parcel of Saturn in 7th hence the association of depression.

I'm sure things will improve. They always do. Everything is always in a constant flux. Like the lemniscate, everything cycles in changing phases, ad infinitum. And you have a lot going for yourself.

Here's a great quote for the Yi-Ching, which I find inspiring:

There is no plane without a slope.
There is no going forth without a return.
One who perseveres in times of hardship
Is without blame.
Don't be worried about this truth.
Enjoy the blessings you possess.


I recently had it Transit thru my 7th where I've become a Stranger to everyone around me. (Uranus Opp Moon 1- 7th to help) & have been longing for a committed relationship. (Don't see it happening anytime soon). I'm more afraid of Saturn entering Scorpio of my 8th. I have no business relationships but am not looking fwd to the 2 years of deep depression with 8th house now.:unsure:

I wouldn't worry. The planets are only currents, and you are still with paddle.

Thank you very much for sharing, BlackEmpress.
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
as saturn entered libra, my two year engagement ended at the end of an 8th house transit...

This is interesting. Would you say that when Saturn entered the house that your engagement began to disintegrate, or was it a sudden eight house "death"?

from there I traveled the country as it went into the 9th house...seeking to regain my balance...my south node is in the 9th and jupiter/north node are in aries in the third...luckily this was in tandem with a jupiter return so the trip went better than planned though I did not make it over seas as planned...

That's really interesting. A changing domicile. Did you stay in one vicinity, e.g., West Coast or was it of greater distance?

I had many doomed relationships during this time that were doomed to fail from their inception but I did learn much from them...I also am back in school towards the end of this transit as I have learned how not having a degree has limited upward momentum in my career...

Interesting. For the most part, these are all eighth house issues. Did Saturn aspect your Venus at this time? Maybe Jupiter? In square or opposition? Any minor dissonant aspects? I'm curious.

at twenty five I don't recall the details of previous transits but I do know he was cresting into that 8th house at 22 degrees leo when I got a dui...which through the subsequent community service, ended up being one of the more transformative experiences in my life...

It is the house of poisons, and being intoxicated with a disastrous repercussion could qualify as being "poisoned" in a sense. It certainly changed your life.

I'm very weary of his movement across my 10th as I have moon, pluto, and mc all conjunct making hard aspects to mars and venus...those three also make a trine to mercury and I think my dreamy piscean mind will be the only thing that can save me from the harsh realities of saturn...

There is no other greater portal to our lives for the planets than the angular houses. I hope nothing tremendous occurs. And thank you very much for sharing.

P.S. I would thank you and all that follow but I am out of "thank yous." Apparently, they are of limited quantity. I suppose this is to increase their value so we don't hand them out willy-nilly!
 
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Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Saturn does cause consternation but fascination?

I think it looks cool. :shrug: I like watching it on some of my astronomy vids. :smile:

It is the planet of the reality bite, taking responsibility, copping your karma and reaping what you sow. Every 29 years it makes a return and major events happen then.

Interestingly, for me, I was able to accomplish a great deal at my 29th birthday. My life actually improved. In one sense. However, my emotional state was a bit of a mess. I had terrible insomnia, etc. (I just thought of this right now, and it makes sense with my Moon conjunct Saturn.)

We are forced to mature, to take the losses that sometimes happen and are inevitable. II learned astrology on my first return at 29 and began to realise I was not a victim of fate but to take responsibility for what happens to me.

Yes! This is one consistent aspect that everyone has stated, which is the learning experience that follows what ever Saturn-caused adversity was experienced.

I have Saturn conjunct Mercury and sextile Neptune. There may have been other transits affecting my Uranus as well, as the planet of astrology and conjunct NN in Gemini.

Saturn is in transit, conjunct your Mercury right now?

My second return I lost my sister (Saturn conjunct Mercury) and much more and was very difficult with health issues as Saturn is in the 6th. It forced me to get real about my diet and my health in general. I suffer from chronic digestive problems which I have to live with. Came close to wanting to die, but I am still here as suicide solves nothing.

I'm sorry to hear that about your sister . . . . And I'm glad you are healthier now. Every negative always has a positive. Not to be trite or fill this thread with platitudes, but I absolutely believe it to be true.

Thank you very much for sharing!
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Just as a quick observation (so far), it appears that Saturn's primary effect of creating oppressive structure in one's life is not so primary. It actually appears to be extremely disruptive. Indeed, if anything, it resembles the energy of Uranus, which destroys the status quo and breaks patterns in an unexpected and disruptive manner. As Robert Hand described Uranus, "t represents the random element of mutation."

Perhaps I'm on a tangent that leads nowhere, but some of the core descriptions of Uranus (aside for the Aquarian qualities) would fit very well with the effects experienced here thus far.

I think Saturn is Uranus. And I think Saturn acquired its "limiting" quality by a need to create some sense of dualism as held by the Sun and Moon as well as Mars and Venus. It seems natural in the pre-outer planets period to perpetuate the same dual polarities with Jupiter and Saturn. If one expands, then the other must contract. But perhaps it would be better defined as one causes growth while the other causes atrophy. But then again, as stated above, not all experiences under Saturn's gaze have been malefic.
So it seems to me---so far.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
I wonder if your conclusions regarding Saturn are tinged by preconceptions, or by misinterpretation. Not meant as a criticism of any sort, but simply a "self-check" question.

Rather than "atrophy" (which it can be at times, but certainly not always) we might look at Saturn's effects as "the opportunity for growth and maturation through the vivid presentation of our faults and defects with regard to reality."

I got sick with the passage of Saturn over the Sun. I lost my job due to the length of hospitalization, lost my house due to consequent lack of income, dealt with an overwrought wife.....

All of which led to relocation, a new career path, and a new departure in life. I found friends I never knew I had, experienced kindness from folks I didn't even know. My self-confidence and my faith in Providence grew. All because I got sick.

It's an ill wind that blows no good.
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
I wonder if your conclusions regarding Saturn are tinged by preconceptions, or by misinterpretation. Not meant as a criticism of any sort, but simply a "self-check" question.

Actually, I would go even further and say they are framed with preconceptions! Whether they are tinged with "misinterpretations," however, has yet to be established, in my own mind. It is very possible that they are. But it is possible that they are not. And though I know you are not criticizing, please do not worry about doing so because I welcome it. Criticism (constructive) is one means that allows a person to get a different take, to look at things from a different angle, or even under a new light, so as to learn, grow and further one's understanding.

Rather than "atrophy" (which it can be at times, but certainly not always) we might look at Saturn's effects as "the opportunity for growth and maturation through the vivid presentation of our faults and defects with regard to reality."

I have considered this. It seems, however, that this is not the direct effect of Saturn but, rather, the response to Saturn's effect. I say this because it was entirely possible that one might have squandered his or her opportunity to grow and evolve. Instead of rising out of flames to spread one's wings, one conversely could have been reduced to ash. I believe that the growth response to a deleterious Saturn effect is due to other qualities within one's self, such as his or her fortitude (Mars in an earth or fire sign), mental state such as optimism (Jupiter in a fire sign), etc. Additionally, any of the benefics transiting, etc.

Because Saturn has turned one's world upside down does not guarantee a positive, evolutionary response.

I got sick with the passage of Saturn over the Sun. I lost my job due to the length of hospitalization, lost my house due to consequent lack of income, dealt with an overwrought wife.....

All of which led to relocation, a new career path, and a new departure in life. I found friends I never knew I had, experienced kindness from folks I didn't even know. My self-confidence and my faith in Providence grew. All because I got sick.

It's an ill wind that blows no good.

I am glad to see that you survived, overcame and grew. :smile: Additionally, I appreciate your perspective and insight on astrology and your experiences. It's valuable to have input from someone who's lived a significant amount of life and has observed the planetary influences during that time.

Back to the above point I was making, can you see how your "resurrection" is tenuously connected to the disruption caused by Saturn? It is several degrees removed in a series of events. There are likely intervening factors influencing your recovery, which breaks the element of causation that's being attributed to Saturn. Or is this not so?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
You are absolutely correct. The effects of Saturn per se only set the stage for possible growth via the energies of other planets. But then as my aunt used to preach to me, "God don't give you no burden you cain't carry." She was a simple country girl, so she talked funny. But she talked sense.

But the idea is that Saturn's effects are part and parcel of the whole chart (the whole personality) and specifically designed to be overcome, resulting in growth. They present you with a "reality test" that brings you to ground where you can begin to build your life structure on a foundation of realistic rock rather than delusional sand. Whether one passes the test may be a matter of choice (free will), or may not. The jury is out.

Saturn is more than what we have been discussing in this thread. He is the planet that defines our identity, because he isolates us, sets us apart. He brings trials for us to overcome, and in doing that we become what we were intended to be.

I think I have written here before that it apalls me to see this world of people who will pay any price to avoid pain (e.g., our addiction to mind-numbing drugs as a means of escaping pain -- there are also other escape routes). Pain is a very necessary part of life. Without it there can be no growth. And that is a simple inescapable truth.

I first learned this as a kid on my high school swimming team. Workouts were pain. You swam far enough and long enough to meet pain, then you kept swimming right through it, until you came out the other side. When we got cramps the coach would holler, "Swim it out." When you got to the other side of that pain, your performance was enhanced and what had caused you the pain could never do so again. Through pain, you had grown in stature.

If Saturn symbolizes discipline and hard work, which it does, then the value of it can be seen in this example. Saturn is duty, obligation, responsibility, and also the wise old man who's "been there, done that" and knows about pain and suffering and its rewards.

And so in a sense you are not absolutely correct. Pain and suffering, frustration, restriction and limitation and such other unpleasantries as Saturn carries in his bag of tricks bring their own rewards, in and of themselves. It is the growth of consciousness and understanding, and the realization of who and what we really are.

Saturn was the Ring-Pass-Not of the ancients. He was the Keeper of the Gate, and only through his auspices could one pass beyond, could attain eventual freedom through self-understanding. The Bhagavad Gita says that "all men are born in delusion." But it is only through facing reality that we become free and can walk in the Light. Tezcatlipoca, one of the principal gods of the Aztecs, carried a smoking mirror (which is what his name means) that he used to make his enemies see themselves as they really are; and in doing that he defeated and utterly destroyed them. If we are to succeed in life that is what we must do: Look at ourselves in the Smoking Mirror. Saturn enables us to do that, for he is the planet of stark reality.
 
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stainedBlue

Well-known member
I think any discussion on Saturn needs to begin with finding an accurate way to perceive what it is exactly that's being done by Saturn's cyclic evolution within us. In my eyes, I see many people that look toward Saturn as a hook to hang their misery on. How common is it to see someone blaming Saturn for their problems? I see it often enough that I've had to stop looking at Saturn and focus more on what the people are saying of themselves in order to find what Saturn actually means. All the planets are cyclical, meaning there is a beginning and an ending. What does this translate as? Sowing and reaping, with varying durations of evolutionary growth throughout the cycle. Late in the cycle and very early in the new cycle we see cultivation/planning/nurturing of the ground (ourselves) for new sowing. We see a similar dynamic with the houses.

From what I can see, Saturn is a teacher, harvester (reaper), builder, and so forth. Saturn shows us how our needs are met. However, even this is subject to distortion because what we need and what we think we need don't necessarily line up. Saturn's cycle is one much like raising crops. It's your own fault if the crops you've harvested weren't tended to, leaving you with little to nothing of what you expected to have. It's your own fault if you planted late and had to harvest too soon, leaving you with an immature harvest. It's your own responsibility to take care of your life, and Saturn shows you this by reaping what you've sown. If the structure you've build isn't sound enough to stand on once it's time to stand on it, who is to blame, really? Think about that.

Humans like their cozy stagnation, not wanting to change what they've become accustomed to. It's true that Saturn is how we find our security, but must this security be rigid? Saturn builds with an eye for long-term planning. I'm more than skeptical that Saturn is content with zero growth, as seems to be what has been associated with the planet. Again, Saturn is a builder. If the structure isn't solid enough for the image trying to be built, what happens? It gets torn down, and by Saturn's own hand!

As greybeard has said, it's through Saturn that we define ourselves within the context of the whole chart. I'm of the mindset that Saturn shows where and how within the chart that we're to build the foundation of our identity, a sort of base of operations – though this shouldn't be misconstrued as saying that's the only thing Saturn shows. Growth is a pain, but a necessary one. Saturn tells us we must develop discipline and responsibility for ourselves in order to achieve, and through all the hardships, limitation, falling down and getting back up, we're given wisdom through melancholia as long as we actually face ourselves, our choices, and the reality of life.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I used to be a drifter.

One day, in a small and isolated Mexican town, I was looking for a secure place to sleep. I walked to the edge of town, and then up a path that led into the hills. Up the path a way I ran into two men coming down. We stopped and talked; naturally they were "checking out" the stranger in their town. We chatted for nearly half an hour, when one of the men, don Oswaldo, said that if I continued up the path I would find a gate and the land on the other side of that gate was his land. I was welcome to stay there. I stayed there for two months.

Don Oswaldo had a corn field, a small one. It was a disaster. There hadn't been a drop of rain all season, and the corn plants were not even knee high. They were all yellow and sere, and not an ear of corn was to be found. Oswaldo was 72 years old. One day he came up there to his "parcela" with two donkeys and a cultivating plow. He spent two days following the animals around his patch of useless corn, cultivating.

I asked him why he even bothered cultivating a crop that would give him nothing. He smiled, pointed at the cloudless dry sky, and said, "I plant and do the work. The Lord gives the crop, or does not."

I harvested a rich crop during the time I stayed with don Oswaldo, and had planted nothing. I would often pass him in the late afternoon, sometimes his wife by his side, both working at sieving sand and gravel, or planting a new fruit tree. He would always say "Los pobres nacimos pa' trabajar." (We poor people were born to work). He worked with joy, a smile, peace in his heart. His work was an offering to God.

See if you can fit Saturn into that perspective.
 
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!4C

Well-known member
I have a uranus-saturn square that often has a jinx effect when a transiting planet conjuncts one of them, usually uranus.

For example, when mars conjuncts natal uranus I might get a surprise opportunity that I don't understand well enough to determine whether it is good or bad. In my hesitation to study the situation I end up losing out. Caution is not good in all situations.

My saturn return was one exception. I have a leo saturn in the first house and my saturn return was awesome. It was easily one of the most exciting and pleasurable periods of my life. Given my chaotic work environment, I expect it to be ugly, but instead it defied everything I heard about the SR. Maybe it was because I worked to the extent of my capacity, but didn't worry about the outcome. Everyone around me seemed to be nervous wreck.
 
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Blackempress

Well-known member
Great view of Saturn Stainedblue. Love the depth you reflect of your understanding.
I agree with you Greybeard: Work without concern for the Outcome. The Outcome comes out Itself. :cool:

Saturn is like a Patient Teacher that wants you to pay attention to every detail so that you become the Master on what means ALOT to you. It Detains so there are no skipped steps & will discard any badly done project just for it to be re-done all over in a better way.
You can choose to be a patient Student & learn with perfection or you can get frustrated skipping & suffering the lessons. Work WITH it & the subject becomes easier & rewarding (Teacher's pet).

'If you keep getting irritated with every Rub, how will your Mirror ever be polished!' (Rumi)
 
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