US Presidential race - Who will win?

Mr stellium

Well-known member
Heres why I believe Astrologically, that John McCain will win the election (From a neutral, European citizen):

On election day, November 4th 2008, the Moon which represents the mood of the people, will be in Capricorn. A standard rule which holds true 95% of the time in parliamentary democracies (Where the incumbent Government party has the advantage of picking the election date) is that "on dawn of election day, if the Moon is in trine or conjunction to Saturn, within a 10 degree orb, then the incumbent party will retain power".

Now, at dawn (say 7am) on November the 4th, the moon will be at 24 degrees Capricorn. Saturn will be at 19 degrees Virgo. This is a trine (5 degrees, separating), which satisfies the rule, thereby favouring the incumbent Republican Party. For clarity I will list the Moons aspects below:

> Square Mercury at 29 Libra (6, applying)
> Sextile Mars at 21 Scorpio (2, separating)
> Conjunction Jupiter at 17 Capricorn (7, separating)
> Trine Saturn at 19 Virgo (5, separating)
> Sextile Uranus at 19 Pisces ( 5, separating)
> Interestingly, for the 7am chart, the Moon is 150 degrees (Partile) From the Midheaven

How might these aspects to the Moon alter the above rule? The major dynamic on election day is the partile Saturn-Uranus opposition: This has led many astrologers to predict Obama will win. If we let Saturn represent McCain and Uranus represent Obama, We can Judge who wins based on the aspects to these planets from other planets and their nature. They are listed below:

Saturn's aspects:

> Trine Jupiter (Cap, 2 applying)
> Sextile Mars (Scorp, 3 separating)
> Square Venus (Sag, 1 separating)
> Trine Moon (Cap, 5 separating)

Uranus' aspects:

> Sextile Jupiter (Cap, 2 applying)
> Trine Mars (Scorp, 3 separating)
> Square Venus (Sag, 1 separating)
> Sextile Moon (Cap, 5 separating)
> Trine Sun (Scorp, 7 applying)

Now, Which planet wins the fight? At first sight it looks like Uranus, energized by trines from Mars and the Sun, Sextile Jupiter (Uranus disposits Jupiter, traditionally). Saturn also has a strong showing, Trine Jupiter, who disposits him and also receiving some energy from the Mars sextile. Venus squares them both - Venus is in Sag and her dispositor; Jupiter is in Capricorn.

Now, if I let the 7am chart represent the election, we get Saturn as the most elevated planet, in the 10th house. The MC is Trine Pluto, suggesting possible skullduggery was used to win the election- The Asc is trine Uranus which favours Obama. However considering all of the above I favour a McCain win - this will be a controversial election with civil unrest after the result is announced (particularly by young people - represented by Venus which squares Saturn and Uranus) with people angry believing they were conned or lied to by the winning party (Mars Partile Square Neptune). Given the strength and conflicting nature of both planets (Saturn and Uranus) it is possible that the result could be overturned, after much civil unrest and controversy. McCain is going to pick his VP in the next few hours, Speculation suggests it may be Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. If he does pick her than, astrologically he is a dead cert winner because venus (aspects described above) will represent the change: First Female VP in American history.

What do you guys think?
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Hello Mr.S!! Very nice comparison there. It really looks very tight indeed. Personally I favor the Sun trine from Obama over the Moon trine of Mc.Cain.
Obama's Ascendant is Aquarius, ruled by Uranus and traditionally Saturn and both make good aspects. Would that not bring some weight into this thing?
Also, Moon is not realy happy in Capricorn I believe. It is the sign of her detriment.
What do you think now?
 

LionKing

Well-known member
I made a chart and it showed that McCain would likely win. It was about the time I predicted that Hillary would quit. I was going to post it in the forum but I had gotten too many critiques from the "pro Democrats side" I decided not to do so. I'm glad someone else did. I'm not a favor of either party. I just was going to show what might transpire in November.
V/r LionKing:sunny:
 

starlink

Well-known member
Well, he choose a woman as vice president, so there you have it!!
Speculation suggests it may be Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. If he does pick her than, astrologically he is a dead cert winner because venus (aspects described above) will represent the change: First Female VP in American history.
I dont see why this would be so favorable. She might have the same views as he does, but she has very little experience as a senator (only 2 years apparently) and should McCain not live very long due to his not that fantastic health, then personally I would not really like such a young person to be my president! I am also not American and impartial. I would have liked Hillary though. She has push, is extremely bright and has lots of experience due to her role also as wife of an ex-president.

But who knows, you might be right. Obama did have the Solar Eclipse smack on his Sun and I wonder if this would work out badly or if it would show something exceptional happening to him, like being chosen as president.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Oh Mr. S, could you look at the second house of Mr. McCain? I dont have his chart here. 2nd house would show her, as being his support (his second).
That planet could also show if she makes a chance of becoming vice president.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Guys I just did a horary for the question of Palin would become Vice President and it looks like she almost will! The Asc. falls at 11° Aquarius, so she is ruled by Saturn. The president would be the 10th house, vice president the 11th (2nd from the 10th), ruled by Jupiter. Now Jupiter at 12° Capricorn was on his way to make a mutually applying trine to Saturn at 11° Virgo (1°orb) but Jupiter never reaches 11° Capricorn. Jupiter will go direct before that, so I dont think she will become vice president. We will see!
 
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AquariusT

Well-known member
Great post! We did a horary a while back and McCain was the win. With that traditional practical Cappy moon most of the voters will come out in the am and vote for McCain. Some late risers will come out on that Aquarius moon and vote for Obama, just to be radical and rebellious. :rolleyes:
 

Culpeper

Premium Member
The official announcement of Sarah Palin as Rep. Party VP candidate was at 12:30 in Dayton, Ohio(29 Aug. 2008). Palin is such an unknown that no natal data is available for her at this time. However, using the announcement time as an event chart and using ancient methods and houses, Scorpio is rising and Leo/Sun rule her tenth house of office. Mars and the Sun are in adjacent signs and so do not aspect each other. This does not indicate that she will attain the office of VP.

Although this may be comparing eggs and apples, Scorpio is McCain's second house. Saturn is almuten of his ascendant and Venus the ruler of it in his natal chart; Mars does not aspect either Saturn or Venus. This indicates that Palin will not be of much help to him.

As for Obama and Biden, their ascendant rulers, Jupiter and Saturn, aspect each other in the same degree--a very powerful classical aspect. To be sure this is an opposition, but both planets have essential dignity and are considered to be friends. Although they may have some disagreements, Biden appears to help Obama much more than Palin helps McCain.

Feliciter et tibi
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Mr stellium said:
What do you guys think?
Why didn't you just look at their charts?

Apparently, there's some confusion regarding McCain's birth time. The time cited now is 11:00 am, and that's the time I'll use here.

McCain's MC is 15 Leo 20. On Election Day, McCain's progressed Sun will be conjunct his ascendant. The orb is a mere 4' of arc. The Sun in Leo, on an angle, to wit the Ascendant. I can't think of a more powerful statement.

His progressed Jupiter ruling his 2nd (and 4th) House will be conjunct the progressed North Node in the 2nd House.

On top of that, his progressed Saturn opposes his MC (orb 8' of arc) forming a T-Sqaure with natal Jupiter in the 1st.

His progressed Moon is in the Libra 11th House forming an exact T-Square with the natal North/South Nodes.

The transiting Moon forms an exact conjunction with natal Moon opposition Pluto (3rd/9th axis).

On January 20, 2009, transiting Saturn will trine his progressed Ascendant.

That screams winner.

For Obama, using the 7:34 pm time from his birth certificate, his progressed Sun has moved into the 8th House. It squares his progressed Jupiter in the 12th House (a house of endings just like the 8th House). While Sun trine Jupiter is normally positive, it isn't when Jupiter is in Capricorn in the 12th House.

The only other aspect the progressed Sun makes is a square to transiting Pluto in the 11th House. I couldn't think of a worse aspect and placement for the Sun and Pluto as that.

To make matters worse, transiting Neptune conjuncts his Ascendant and squares transiting Mars in the 9th (applying aspect orb 29') -- Loser. That's the worst possible transit for a contest or legal challenge.

His progressed Mercury and Mars are also conjunct in the 8th House.

His progressed Ascendant in the 2nd House squares progressed Saturn in the 11th House.

To cap things off the progressed Mercury/Mars conjunction opposes progressed Ascendant (2nd/8th axis and again an orb of less than 30' of arc).

Seriously, I'm not one to be an alarmist, but Neptune conjunct Ascendant square Mars, Pluto square Sun and Mercury conjunct Mars (in the 8th) opposing Ascendant (with Mercury ruling the 8th and the 4th) has "accident, danger, loss, death" written all over it.

The only positive thing in Obama's chart is the transiting Jupiter conjunct progressed MC in the 11th in Sagittarius (joining the 10th House). If it were Saturn conjunct the progressed MC in the 11th, then I'd say that would be a very powerful indicator of a goal fulfilled. Even though Jupiter conjunct the MC is a positive thing, look at how many people have fallen from grace when Jupiter moves off.

From their charts, it looks like McCain will be moving on to bigger and better things and Obama will be backing up and regrouping.
 

pallas

Well-known member
I see McCain winning on election day -

Venus conj venus/saturn mp
Venus conj Jup/NN mp
Sun con Venus/NN mp
NN trine Sun/Saturn mp


also trans Venus conj his prog Venus...a venus return so to speak!!!
pallas
 
I was apparently mistaken about the birth certificate. It's very likely legitimate.

After all, his birth was announced in the local paper.
 
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SacredOak

Member
Aristophanity said:
Senator Obama's "birth certificate" is likely a forgery. We can't be sure we have the correct time or place.

Aristophanity

Where are you getting this idea from? It sounds very much out of left field.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Obama's real birthtime can be found in his website . www.barackobama.com Ascendant Aquarius. There was, in the beginning, indeed speculation about his birth hour, but later the real one was published.

That progressed Sun in the 8th and also the Solar Eclipse conjunct exactly his Sun + a few other placements, make me fear for his life. Many things are very similar to JF Kennedy. Both have Mars conjunct the 8th house in their charts for example. Obama's Solar chart for 4.8.2008 looks scary with Mars, ruler of the solar 8th as well, conjunct his Ascendant and Sun opposed to Neptune as well as Uranus in 7 in opposition to Moon (conj.Mars).

So I think that these positions have less to do with him being or not being elected, but more with him being in extreme danger at that time.
In any case, I would rather have a Biden as president than Palin in case McCain should die in office.

A Saturn opposition to the MC of McCain I personally dont see as a sign of success. Saturn conjunct MC, trine or sextile yes. Also having two T-squares shows strain and obstacles, but who knows.
Progr. Sun on his Asc. is very nice of course.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
wintersprite1 said:
I hate to sound cynical, but maybe we should look at the charts of the corporations the make the voting machines... :(

TK

In what way is that cynical? I think it's more than a legitimate concern. We had to fight to force them to modify the machines to produce a paper trail. People are way too reliant on technology.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
SacredOak said:
Where are you getting this idea from? It sounds very much out of left field.

Israeli newspapers, websites and journalists are pushing it.

For a simplistic explanation, "Red Menace" resulted in a change in citizenship laws and in 1961 the standard was that you have to physically reside in the US or its territories for a certain number of years, including 5 years after you reached the age of 14.

In other words, unless your parents were employed by the US government, or members of the US military, you lost your US citizenship if you left the country before age 19, even if both parents were US citizens.

His mother entered university at age 17 and was studying to be an anthropologist. It has been alleged that Obama's mother left the US during the summer of her 18th year to do anthropological field work in Indonesia and that Obama was born there in August before she turned 19. If true, then she lost her US citizenship and because his father was an alien, he would not be a US citizen.

The laws have since been changed so that one only has to be in the US for a period of 2 years between age 14 and 19 to retain US citizenship, but they do not apply retroactively.
 

Vista

Well-known member
Barack Obama announced his Presidency during a VOC Moon. Traditionally this is a very bad sign.

On July 29th, I asked if Barack Obama will win the election. See Chart attachment.

It appears the Moon is VOC in this chart too; however, his Leo Sun(natally speaking) is sitting right up there in the 10th House. That seems rather symbolic of him being in power. Moon is also less debilitated in Cancer of course.

Anyone care to try and interpret this chart? I am not certain which Houses to use other than the 10th House. Would the 1st House be his significator? Unlikely since I am asking. I am really stumped on this...perhaps 7th House of partnerships?? Moon will Trine Mars in 17 somethings, likely weeks as this would be appropriate for a November election.

BTW, It's nice to see a dialog about this without the personal attacks that we have seen on some other postings about this subject.;)
Vista
 
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