Occult power and Saturn conjunct Pluto in the natal

JerryRR said:

Hi Poyi,
Thank you for the links and your input.
You mention q and bq aspects.This shows as MO/NE/SA/JU/ASC op ME,5th Harmonic +VE/MA sq PL.
"..he could almost be a savior as well."
He has SU trine NE 8th Harmonic and SU con NE Golden Mean Harmonic(1.6180)

SU/SA trine PL 7th Harmonic.

J.R.

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J.R.

Was going to send you PM but no such option available. Sorry guys to post this off topic message on the thread....

Read a new book today from Karen Hamaker-Zondag, in her "Aspects and Personality", she briefly talked about Quintile and BiQuintile aspects:

"The Quintile bestows a naturally well-developed capacity thought of as an intellectual aspects, being described as mercurial in its action."

Like the BiQuintile=harmonious there two have same effects

"...there is something very creative about it and often something occult or hiddden. Admittedly, not all authors agree about the way it acts. John Addey gives it the meaning of purposefulness and points out that we often find this aspects in people in positions of power, and also in people who are striving for power. Both aspects belong to the minor group and therefore are still not much used."

Here we see Hitler the man who was strive for power and he was one of the very few that owned so many bQ, total of 6 and one of them is EXACT degree which is Moon bQ Neptune, and he also owned 3 Q aspects the EXACT degree was the Jupiter Q AC. Moon bQ Neptune, before becoming a politician he was once a very talented artist. But he rejected by The Academy of Fine Arts Vienna twice. They used "unfitness for painting" as the reason.

"After the Academy's second rejection, Hitler ran out of money. In 1909 he lived in a homeless shelter, and by 1910, he had settled into a house for poor working men on Meldemannstraße.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBullock199930.E2.80.9333-36At the time Hitler lived there, Vienna was a hotbed of religious prejudice and 19th-century racism.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#cite_note-FOOTNOTEShirer196026-37 Fears of being overrun by immigrants from the East were widespread, and the populist mayor, Karl Lueger, exploited the rhetoric of virulent antisemitism for political effect. Georg Schönerer's pan-Germanic antisemitism had a strong following and base in the Mariahilf district, where Hitler lived. Hitler read local newspapers such as the Deutsches Volksblatt, that fanned prejudice and played on Christian fears of being swamped by an influx of eastern Jews.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHamann2010341.E2.80.93345-39 Hostile to what he saw as Catholic "Germanophobia", he developed an admiration for Martin Luther."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Early_adulthood_in_Vienna_and_Munich

If you read the whole description of Hitler's life, you would properly like me understood how a normal but talent artist turned into a monster, very likely due to long term rejection by others and extreme difficult life. His mind was turned into a mind of "Absolute". He was like an animal being pushed to the very corner, had no choice but to Rebel! His Uranus Rx in 12th house.

If only he was loved as a child and only if his talent was being recognized, the Fate of Jewish people would quite likely would be a completely different story....In the wiki link, we can see his photo as an infant, he was only a boy. But life and hardships that he endured overtime "Changed" him.

Anyhow, he has one of the very best charts for studying psycho-astrology.

The thoughts/posts in this thread make me feel good. That said --

Might I address this Sat/Plu alchemy as a generational aspect?

Originally Posted by MSO in Post #8:
... You'd end up with clusters every 3 decades of these super occult people, with periods of no activity in between.

Originally Posted by JerryRR in Post #55:
Saturn/Pluto conjunctions:
1914 @ 2 Cancer
1915 @ 0 Cancer
1947 @ 13 Leo
1982 @ 27 Libra
2020 @ 22 Capricorn

I find it interesting that it’s our ‘hippy generation’ that is our modern frame of reference for this SA/PL generational influence. If we look at their early adult years, yes, I think there’s some ‘occult’ there. A generational scythe that brought about universal, sweeping transformation. It may have started with the dawning of celtic spirits, free love, and mind-altering drugs but in time it morphed into the frontier of computed reasoning and media networks. In other words, instead of the magic of telepathy we have the magic of texting. An ethereal structure for mass transformation was established. Toss in the Leo influence for almost guaranteed success of the ‘mission.’

The next SA/PL generation, now in its mid-twenties, are the ones to establish a newer structure for further/farther transformation. If we look at their early adult years, yes, I see some ‘occult’ here. This is the generation of the gothic vampire, the publicly naked, and the undead. In time it will also morph into its universal frontier. Toss in Libra and I for one have hopes it will be a favorable balancing rather than a leveling one.

Is this an aspect that boosts the occult for an individual? Could be. Depending on placement, of course. But as a general interpretation for your personal life I’d go with ‘opportunity to apply/pursue/confront structure into the unknown’.

all IMHO

I can see Pluto involved in magic, even occult subjects, but a conjunction with Saturn feels too dense to me to indicate these powers.

An intriguing idea, for sure, but Uri Geller is only one. I took a glance at charts for David Copperfield, Jeanne Dixon, James Randi, and several other people involved in occult/magic, and didn't see any Saturn-Pluto conjunctions. Did see one with the square... can't recall who that was.

Since you don't seem to be getting a lot of feedback from people who have this conjunction except for BlackEmpress, I'd suggest you research some charts on Astro Databank.

Hello,

Well, I have moon conjunct pluto conjunct saturn in house 8 (all 3 in libra).
My ASC is Aquarius and uranus conjucts jupiter and midheaven in my natal chart.

Since my childhood i experiment with occult things I am interested in psychology, philosophy
Since a few years i started to study astrology.
I dream a lot ...and sometimes everything happens exactly that way.
I have deja vue-s quite often during the day and know who will do/say what

I don't believe in the ability for a person to do magic.

Me neither... in the sense that someone can fly... or transform someone else into a frog ))But I believe that "occult power" or "magic" has nothing to do with this.

I believe that magic is in our daily life.
What is magic? Magic is if you think on someone and he calls you in the next minute. Or if you can find intuitively the last empty parking space in a crowded street. Magic is if someone is talking to you and you can see for a second with the talker's eyes and know exactly what he meant.

People with sellium in house 8 are more sensitive and more aware/conscious of their abilities.They dispose over power.

House 8 (the Scorpio house) deals with transformation, power and sexuality. House 8 guides you into extremes while with stellium in house 8 you try to find the hidden motives of your acts, you try to analyse yourself and others or you repeat the past in your mind to find out what happened and why.
With a stellum in 8 you like to do things secretly, you like to search for something, to explore hidden things.
Pluto can do in house 8 forbidden things , but if it is in conjunction with Saturn , than NOT, because Saturn will not "allow" it.
E.g. Maybe a person steal something in early childhood (pluto) and got a bad punishment from his parents (saturn) -> next time he will be afraid to do it once again.

I experienced that persons with stellium in house 8 made very hard experiences in something , they tortured themselves with the repeating analysis, felt that they will almost die, afterwards the were reborn with a complete other behavior.
And I think this is a magic.

I think if someone starts to analyse his behavior, acts,thoughts etc. need to face with his own soul and everything that can be found there is secretive, sometimes very dark, bitter but pluto with saturn in house 8 has the persistence and courage to dig into the unknown.... and this road will lead to the study of occult, the study of power, study of sexuality...and the study how to use and transform all these energies in life .

Wow, beautifully said Chanii!

I personally dislike my Saturn-Pluto conjunction in the 9th house. This arrangement also conjuncts my Midheaven and opposes my 3rd house moon. I'm 29 years old, and I've had struggles with power and authority at every single job I've held in my life (except one). Now, it's affecting me in higher education. I just can't get out of it, and I'm not able to form or start a career because of it. It's just a really bad combination to have in any chart.

PD187540 said:

I personally dislike my Saturn-Pluto conjunction in the 9th house. This arrangement also conjuncts my Midheaven and opposes my 3rd house moon. I'm 29 years old, and I've had struggles with power and authority at every single job I've held in my life (except one). Now, it's affecting me in higher education. I just can't get out of it, and I'm not able to form or start a career because of it. It's just a really bad combination to have in any chart.

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Gosh you took the words straight out of my mouth! And mine is in the 8th house so for me it's always about power vs disempowerment, and the lesson never ends

But there is supposed to be real strength, grit and fortitude in this aspect, and I must say I have experienced it a few times (and can't think what else in my chart would explain it). It's a kind of raw courage in the face of more extreme life trials, and yet for me I often feel very uncourageous in the face of more mundane trials... maybe I need a change of profession where I feel able to prove myself to MYself and test my own mettle to feel more alive. I don't know. How does one use this aspect constructively...?

MJ82 said:

Gosh you took the words straight out of my mouth! And mine is in the 8th house so for me it's always about power vs disempowerment, and the lesson never ends

But there is supposed to be real strength, grit and fortitude in this aspect, and I must say I have experienced it a few times (and can't think what else in my chart would explain it). It's a kind of raw courage in the face of more extreme life trials, and yet for me I often feel very uncourageous in the face of more mundane trials... maybe I need a change of profession where I feel able to prove myself to MYself and test my own mettle to feel more alive. I don't know. How does one use this aspect constructively...?

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MJ, you are SO right! It does give you a lot of raw power, energy, and the ability to "rise from the ashes" and overcome almost any obstacle.

To answer your question, you should take a look at this post I just made. It explains exactly how my transit is playing out. Feel free to comment about it, if you'd like:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36189

Don't forget that in certain conditions saturn can suppress pluto, which of course represents personal power. On the flip side, pluto's power can be strong within structured system if the person surrenders all their freedom to the authority of that system. In other words, the person can be powerless against the system, but powerful within it. This could indicate the perfect company person...or cult member!

!4C said:

Don't forget that in certain conditions saturn can suppress pluto, which of course represents personal power. On the flip side, pluto's power can be strong within structured system if the person surrenders all their freedom to the authority of that system. In other words, the person can be powerless against the system, but powerful within it. This could indicate the perfect company person...or cult member!

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i4C, can you elaborate? Interesting point. I never would have thought a planet could "suppress" Pluto, only structure it, so to speak. What conditions are you referring to? Very curious!

MJ82 said:

I never would have thought a planet could "suppress" Pluto, only structure it

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Uhhh...same difference. Pluto does not want any limitations. The purpose of structure is to limit.

In some applications, like financial and medical, it can more generalized that saturn contracts while jupiter expands when it is an action modifier.

MJ82 said:

What conditions are you referring to? Very curious!

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Anything that could strengthen saturn, such as stationary, dignified, sun in cap, in house ruled by cap, cap on angles, ect.

Anything that could strengthen saturn, such as stationary, dignified, sun in cap, in house ruled by cap, cap on angles, ect.[/QUOTE]

I guess rising Cap would strengthen Saturn then,

Hmmm...when you were saying that a Saturn pluto conjunction may involve "biting the bullet" and submitting to authority, I wonder how this relates to my college situation. No way would I ever submit to the collegial bureaucracy....never. So I'm thinking of withdrawing from the program. And here's the kicker: I have a job interview next week! Maybe this is the fruits of my saturn return? Could saturn be presenting myself with a new job (seeing how my saturn return is 3 weeks away conjunct my MC)????? Is this a gift of sorts?

I mean, if I do get it, then I'm withdrawing from college permanently for the time being to focus on my career. According to my return, Saturn is on its way towards exiting my 9th house, so to me, that means higher education is over and I need to work with what I have and make the most of it. Does this sound about right? The timing of all these events around my saturn return is really freaky (especially since this job posted its advertisement the day after my birthday!). Could this be my birthday and saturn return gift??

JerryRR said:

Please may I ask,do you think Hitler was interested in the occult?

J.R.

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I believe it is said that Hitler was interested in astrology.
Don't know for sure if true, but I have heard it for a long time.
http://www.astrology.co.uk/news/worldwar2.htm

PD187540 said:

Hmmm...when you were saying that a Saturn pluto conjunction may involve "biting the bullet" and submitting to authority, I wonder how this relates to my college situation. No way would I ever submit to the collegial bureaucracy....never. So I'm thinking of withdrawing from the program. And here's the kicker: I have a job interview next week! Maybe this is the fruits of my saturn return? Could saturn be presenting myself with a new job (seeing how my saturn return is 3 weeks away conjunct my MC)????? Is this a gift of sorts?

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If you think college has bureaucracy, you have another thing coming. Try working for the government or a large corporation. Anyhow, I started my post-college career just as saturn reached the top of my chart.

!4C said:

If you think college has bureaucracy, you have another thing coming. Try working for the government or a large corporation. Anyhow, I started my post-college career just as saturn reached the top of my chart.

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That's exactly what just may happen with me. I'm in the reference checking phase of a new job, and chances are I'm going to officially get it this week. The exact date of my Saturn Return is October 30th, then a little after that, Saturn hits my MC. This has gotta be all astrologically planned...I'm convinced of that.

It's also very strange how I tried four times to pursue higher education over the past few years, and they all backfired on me. This is Saturn saying "Get to work already, and enough college! You don't need any more degrees or certificates in order to do your job!"

I don't have a conjunct Saturn and Pluto but my Saturn and Pluto are both in Scorpio. Pluto at 4deg and Saturn at 27deg. Saturn's in my 8th, Pluto's in my 7th.


I'm definitely interested in the occult.


There's a connection between being disciplined and Pluto's influence. I'm often disciplined for a period of time and have a set routine. Then I decide I have to eradicate certain parts of my routine and I go all introspective for a period of time. Then I snap out of it and get really focused and disciplined for a while but there always seems to be another introspective/soul searching period waiting to happen.