Origin Of Twelfth House Meanings

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Many attribute monasteries to 12th house as places of isolation - otherwise monks/nuns belong to 9th house which represents religious concerns. 12th has rulership over scandals as well as personal fears/skeletons in the family closet and has much to do with shame and the fear of future consequences. Its significations include secret, unknown enemies, such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them: traitors, spies; witchcraft, malicious hauntings; weakness, infirmity and bondage. It also rules great cattle, such as horses, oxen, elephants, of which Ezra notes "Those which serve as a mount for men".

Source of the above is http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html


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EDIT - IMO kaiousei no Senshi's post, further down in the thread, sets out the issue well - many thanks kaiousei no Senshi :smile:
I think it should be said that the actual origins of the 12th house meanings have more to do with the position of the luminaries when they are physically in this house than one might think. It's somewhat humorous that a thread on the origin of the Twelfth house fails to mention its origins.

We have to remember that this is a cadent house which symbolizes an immediate loss of power, especially coming off of the most powerful angle in the horoscope.

We also have to remember what this area of the sky does to heavenly objects that wind up there. Due to the acute angle to the horizon and the atmosphere of the Earth, the luminaries and the stars do not appear in their proper color, luminosity, or clarity when they are astronomically positioned in this area of the sky. Imagine all the otherwordly colors the Sun and Moon appear to be during sunrise and moonrise. Moon is yellow, orange, sometimes red, Sun appears purplish, pink, orange, a whole mix of colors due to the gases in the atmosphere. The Eighth and Seventh houses also share this unique ability, and you see what they are associated with.


Finally, we can't overlook the fact that Saturn joys in this house. These things combined give us our 12th house.


I say all that and then say that the 12th house isn't all bad, as long as we're aware of it and how it can ruin us, there's no reason to see why we can't overcome its toil.
 
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StillOne

Well-known member
Hey Jup! How might you describe my Moon in the 12th according to trad deliniation?

Thanks for your help!
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hey Jup! How might you describe my Moon in Cancer in the 12th according to trad deliniation? I suppose it would just have the Trine from the Sun and no Quincunx from Merc since the quincunx aspect isn't considered... (couldn't figure out how to turn that off on astro). Thanks for your help!
In ancient times there were no "Quincunx" aspects StillOne but instead the aspect was termed a "Disjunct". Hellenistic methods would commence with "The Preliminary Natal Analysis" which is lengthy and that would divert from the topic of this thread because it is not a "read my chart" thread as such:smile:
 
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StillOne

Well-known member
In ancient times there were no "Quincunx" aspects StillOne but instead the aspect was termed a "Disjunct". Hellenistic methods would commence with "The Preliminary Natal Analysis" which takes considerable time - and so, rather than diverting from the topic of this thread with a "read my chart", I shall now refer you to where guidelines on this kind of assessment are to be found at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920 Omnisphericus provides excellent guidance according to other Traditional methods at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463:smile:
Oh, my bad. Was hoping to promote discussion! :smile:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In Vedic astrology the 12th is mostly connected with EXPENDITURES: this includes expenditure of energy, of money, of efforts, of life force; let us say that it signifies OVER "expenditures" of the above, or excessive efforts/expenditures of these. Connected with this expenditures concept arose the idea of loss/losses associated with the 12th house.

As the last of the houses, there was also an association with "ends" (it is the last or ending house of the chain of houses) As 4th (end of the matter house) from the 8th (longevity house) the 12th became associated with the concept of the "end of longevity", ie, with death, and therefore with radical change, and also with liberation (moksha) from the cycle of wordly existence (from the chain of houses = chain of the various departments of life)

Since the 12th house/sign is in fact the ascendant prior to the ascendant at the birth moment, the 12th house became associated with the previous incarnation, and therefore (within Vedic philosophy) also with the entire concept of karma: being the ascending sign during the time immediately prior to actual birth, the 12th also came to signify the trauma of the birth process (the trauma for the individual being born and passing into a life seperate from being part of the life of mother)-and also became connected with the secret, hidden "unknown" life of the individual during the pre-natal period. So the concepts of hidden, mysteries, occult/secret influences, developed from these considerations of the 12th house as being the immediately-prior pre-birth ascendant.

This is my understanding of the genesis and development of 12th house associations and significations, as found in Vedic astrological doctrines and delineations...
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In light of ongoing discussions in 2 threads regarding 12th house, I am refreshing this thread relative to information in my post, above.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
I think it should be said that the actual origins of the 12th house meanings have more to do with the position of the luminaries when they are physically in this house than one might think. It's somewhat humorous that a thread on the origin of the Twelfth house fails to mention its origins.

We have to remember that this is a cadent house which symbolizes an immediate loss of power, especially coming off of the most powerful angle in the horoscope.

We also have to remember what this area of the sky does to heavenly objects that wind up there. Due to the acute angle to the horizon and the atmosphere of the Earth, the luminaries and the stars do not appear in their proper color, luminosity, or clarity when they are astronomically positioned in this area of the sky. Imagine all the otherwordly colors the Sun and Moon appear to be during sunrise and moonrise. Moon is yellow, orange, sometimes red, Sun appears purplish, pink, orange, a whole mix of colors due to the gases in the atmosphere. The Eighth and Seventh houses also share this unique ability, and you see what they are associated with.

Finally, we can't overlook the fact that Saturn joys in this house. These things combined give us our 12th house.

I say all that and then say that the 12th house isn't all bad, as long as we're aware of it and how it can ruin us, there's no reason to see why we can't overcome its toil.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In the oldest (extant) Western astrological literature (Manilius "Astronomica", 14 AD) Saturn's joy was allocated to the 4th house; the change of the allocation of Saturn's joy to the 12th house occured about a century later, in the works of Valens and this change was subsequently retained as such during the remaining Hellenist era and after (through our day in Traditionalist astrology)
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Yes, but even in the Astronomica, the 12th house retains its meanings of misfortune.

It's why I listed Saturn's joy in the house as the final reason, since it did come later. Also, I feel like I should mention the reason this was changed from the Fourth house to the 12th was sect. Saturn (a diurnal planet) should not joy in a nocturnal house, so they changed it.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Right-however in Vedic astrology they retained the most ancient allocation of Saturn to nocturnal sect, which is regarded as such (ie, Saturn as a nocturnal planet) to the present time in jyotish.

Interesting also that in the Manilius Circle of the Athla (basically a turned, fortuna based chart) the 12th place ("house") was considered to indicate the success or failure tendencies for the subject's plans and schemes and efforts in life (Zoller, in his "Arabic Parts" book, in the "Manilius Fortunes" appendix, has an interesting explanation of this, and other, allocations of "places"-ie, "houses" or "fortunes"-in the Circle of the Athla)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.........the change of the allocation of Saturn's joy to the 12th house occured about a century later, in the works of Valens and this change was subsequently retained as such during the remaining Hellenist era and after (through our day in Traditionalist astrology)
Vettius Valens gathered and preserved intact the writings of astrologers who had already preceded him by at least three hundred years, so Valens Anthology cannot be claimed as innovative! Valens motive in writing the Anthology was to preserve all the available ancient astrological lore he could find:smile:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I do believe though that he might well have excluded certain earlier schools of thought, such as the concept of the Circle of the Athla, the Manilius decans, and some of the Manilius material regarding the joys of the planets.
This does not imply any criticism of Valens-remember that there were several schools of Hellenist thought and practice: I believe Valens was preserving the knowledge and insights of the particular stream of astrology into which he had been trained and initiated...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Remember that any number of ancient astrological texts were destroyed by various means either to maintain secrecy or simply when invading armies intended to obliterate a 'conquered' culture. There is therefore no certainty regarding the actual contents of the entirety of the original texts of 'ancient' astrology referred to in surviving astrological texts and as a result, much remains conjecture :smile:
 
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