aquaprin90
Member
Yes, I agree with cancer being the softest zodiac sign, ya Pisces are also amongst the weakest but I regard to be more soft with due my personal experience....
The toughest/weakest star sign?
- Thread starter GreenMist
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The Ram
Well-known member
The toughest? Probably Aries. The sun is the single strongest body in the heavens and the Sun is exalted in Aries and thus as strong as you can get. As far as power/strength planets go, Mars and Pluto are 2 of the best and they each rule Aries. Moreover Aries rules the 1st house, the house of self, which is the most powerful of all the houses. Aries make great leaders with other ppl, but unlike some other signs can be just as strong going it alone.
Scorpio is overrated. But only because everyone considers it easily the toughest sign. The combination of Mars, Pluto and Uranus make them incredibly strong mentally, physically and gives them a lot of stamina and determination. Plus it's the strongest occult sign. Emotions are difficulty, depending on the person. If the person reaches the higher levels (eagle, phoenix) of the sign then they're incredibly cool under pressure, moreso than any other sign. Plus like Aries they can lead or go it alone.
Leo, Cancer, Gemini, Sag, Capricorn are pretty tough too. Really any sign can be tough, it depends on the person.
I disagree about Cancer being a weak sign. There are a lot of tough Cancers, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Wanderlei Silva, vicious dudes. Gemini's can be pretty tough too Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Junior Dos santos to name a few.
Scorpio is overrated. But only because everyone considers it easily the toughest sign. The combination of Mars, Pluto and Uranus make them incredibly strong mentally, physically and gives them a lot of stamina and determination. Plus it's the strongest occult sign. Emotions are difficulty, depending on the person. If the person reaches the higher levels (eagle, phoenix) of the sign then they're incredibly cool under pressure, moreso than any other sign. Plus like Aries they can lead or go it alone.
Leo, Cancer, Gemini, Sag, Capricorn are pretty tough too. Really any sign can be tough, it depends on the person.
I disagree about Cancer being a weak sign. There are a lot of tough Cancers, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Wanderlei Silva, vicious dudes. Gemini's can be pretty tough too Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Junior Dos santos to name a few.
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Horus
Well-known member
"Toughest" and "strongest" in what way? There are many kinds of strength, and the nature of our challenges in life varies, from emotional, to physical, to financial, to mental, to spiritual. Some signs are better suited to handle a certain type of challenge than others. Some situations may require compassion and sensitivity, or understanding and intellect, rather than "force", or fortitude.
All signs actually have useful qualities: fixed signs have good endurance and persistence, mutables have the flexibility to adjust their strategy, and cardinals can take the initiative that may win the "battle".
But no one has their ascendant and all of their planets in just one sign, so Sunsign astrology and its sweeping generalizations are basically useless!
Perzactly!
All signs actually have useful qualities: fixed signs have good endurance and persistence, mutables have the flexibility to adjust their strategy, and cardinals can take the initiative that may win the "battle".
But no one has their ascendant and all of their planets in just one sign, so Sunsign astrology and its sweeping generalizations are basically useless!
You are exactly right, Haizea. That is why I prefer to say "placements" instead of Sun signs. To label someone as strong or weak because of their Sun sign is to say that that can be determined only by the Sun sign. When in fact, the rest of the chart needs to be taken into account. Every chart has strong placements and also weak placements. Nobody's perfect.
Perzactly!
The Ram
Well-known member
Yup lolol. Those Gemini's are tough.
Chris Weidman a sun sign gemini just ko'd Anderson Silva, the greatest mixed martial artist in the game (sun sign Aries).
Though there is a caveat. Weidman has Mars and Saturn in Scorpio and his Pluto while in Libra is right on the cusp of Scorps. The dude was born 3 months after me, I never thought of that before the fight, so I figured Anderson would win easy. Had I considered that Weidman had mars and Saturn in Scorps I would have gave him a better chance.
Gemini rules the hands so they're generally pretty good punchers, he sure threw a heck of a left hook tonight. Anderson taunted Weidman like an idiot, dropping his hands and everything, then BOOM. Pretty embarassing way to lose. I guess we'll see what happens in the rematch. There will be an immediate one.
Chris Weidman a sun sign gemini just ko'd Anderson Silva, the greatest mixed martial artist in the game (sun sign Aries).
Though there is a caveat. Weidman has Mars and Saturn in Scorpio and his Pluto while in Libra is right on the cusp of Scorps. The dude was born 3 months after me, I never thought of that before the fight, so I figured Anderson would win easy. Had I considered that Weidman had mars and Saturn in Scorps I would have gave him a better chance.
Gemini rules the hands so they're generally pretty good punchers, he sure threw a heck of a left hook tonight. Anderson taunted Weidman like an idiot, dropping his hands and everything, then BOOM. Pretty embarassing way to lose. I guess we'll see what happens in the rematch. There will be an immediate one.
M
may28gemini
In the natural relationship between planets, Mars' only enemy is Mercury. On the other hand, Mars respects Mercury and Mars generally does not respect others if they do not win against him.
I'm not surprised that a Gemini knocked out an Aries. Aries is egotistical. They want to be #1 because it's ego driven... they need to prove to themselves and others that they're #1. The constant drive to be on top of the game is very deep for Aries and their identity. Aries is also extremely impulsive- act first, think later. On the other hand, Gemini Sun is naturally peregrine (unless there's planetary aspects that can anchor the Sun) but generally they are 1. impersonal 2. not egotistical 3. motivated by freedom/detachment and thinking. Because Gemini is not motivated by their ego, they roam around freely and do things out of sheer interest and not necessarily aimed to be #1 so they have less to lose. Gemini believes in think first, act later and are actually more calculated than they let on. Aries have a lot to lose if they actually lose battles, by which, it hurts their ego.
I'd be interested in seeing a fight between Leo Sun and Gemini Sun. The winner of that kind of battle could be anyone. But when it's Aries vs Gemini... it's often Gemini that will win.
I'm not surprised that a Gemini knocked out an Aries. Aries is egotistical. They want to be #1 because it's ego driven... they need to prove to themselves and others that they're #1. The constant drive to be on top of the game is very deep for Aries and their identity. Aries is also extremely impulsive- act first, think later. On the other hand, Gemini Sun is naturally peregrine (unless there's planetary aspects that can anchor the Sun) but generally they are 1. impersonal 2. not egotistical 3. motivated by freedom/detachment and thinking. Because Gemini is not motivated by their ego, they roam around freely and do things out of sheer interest and not necessarily aimed to be #1 so they have less to lose. Gemini believes in think first, act later and are actually more calculated than they let on. Aries have a lot to lose if they actually lose battles, by which, it hurts their ego.
I'd be interested in seeing a fight between Leo Sun and Gemini Sun. The winner of that kind of battle could be anyone. But when it's Aries vs Gemini... it's often Gemini that will win.
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M
may28gemini
Actually... there is a chart that has nearly all planets in Aquarius, 7/10 to be exact. Check out Jennifer Jason Leigh's chart.
The Ram
Well-known member
A few things to remember:
-Anderson Silva is 38 years old. Weidman is 29. Silva has been ufc champ for longer than Weidman has even been fighting. Everyone gets old....even Aries sadly
-Weidman has his sun, merc and venus in gemini. But his close conjunction of Saturn and Mars in Scorpio and his Pluto right near the cusp of Scorpio probably speaks more on his toughness and strength.
So what we got was a sun sign Aries with pluto and saturn in Libra, mars in pisces vs a sun sign gemini with Mars and saturn conjunct in scorps and Pluto while still in Libra right on that Scorps cusp.
When it comes down to it interms of the power/toughness planets (besides their suns) we had a noticably Scorpionic person against a Libra/pisces.
The whole chart def has to be considered. But say all placements and aspects are equal, I'd take the sun sign Aries over the Gemini most times, it's simply a stronger position for the sun and gives the native a stronger physical constitution, more energy and physical strength/athletic talent. Gemini's are tough though, toughest of the Air signs.
There being more on the line can work for or against a person. In regards to a fight, the better instincts/reflexes generally do win, ie a 29 yr old generally has better ones than a 38 yr old. Thinking is good too obv but since Aries rules the brain and merc is esoteric ruler of the sign they're pretty good at that too. Though sometimes you just have to improvise in which case Aries is the most creative sign so...
-Anderson Silva is 38 years old. Weidman is 29. Silva has been ufc champ for longer than Weidman has even been fighting. Everyone gets old....even Aries sadly
-Weidman has his sun, merc and venus in gemini. But his close conjunction of Saturn and Mars in Scorpio and his Pluto right near the cusp of Scorpio probably speaks more on his toughness and strength.
So what we got was a sun sign Aries with pluto and saturn in Libra, mars in pisces vs a sun sign gemini with Mars and saturn conjunct in scorps and Pluto while still in Libra right on that Scorps cusp.
When it comes down to it interms of the power/toughness planets (besides their suns) we had a noticably Scorpionic person against a Libra/pisces.
The whole chart def has to be considered. But say all placements and aspects are equal, I'd take the sun sign Aries over the Gemini most times, it's simply a stronger position for the sun and gives the native a stronger physical constitution, more energy and physical strength/athletic talent. Gemini's are tough though, toughest of the Air signs.
There being more on the line can work for or against a person. In regards to a fight, the better instincts/reflexes generally do win, ie a 29 yr old generally has better ones than a 38 yr old. Thinking is good too obv but since Aries rules the brain and merc is esoteric ruler of the sign they're pretty good at that too. Though sometimes you just have to improvise in which case Aries is the most creative sign so...
M
may28gemini
The Aries does NOT have Libra Saturn if he's in his late 30s. Libra Saturn people were born in the very early 1950s and then in very early 1980s. He would probably have very late Gemini or early Cancer Saturn.
The Gemini fighter is blessed with a strong Gemini stellium which includes domicile Mercury for which he knows how to intellectually outwit his opponent. Fighting is not just brute strength, it requires strategy and Gemini Mercury thinks on its feet (so to speak). Like I said before, Gemini is more calculated than they appear and peregrine Sun has very little to lose.
Mars-Saturn conjunction creates a starvation effect where the person can be very disciplined no matter what the signs are.
The Gemini fighter is blessed with a strong Gemini stellium which includes domicile Mercury for which he knows how to intellectually outwit his opponent. Fighting is not just brute strength, it requires strategy and Gemini Mercury thinks on its feet (so to speak). Like I said before, Gemini is more calculated than they appear and peregrine Sun has very little to lose.
Mars-Saturn conjunction creates a starvation effect where the person can be very disciplined no matter what the signs are.
The Ram
Well-known member
My bad, yes his saturn is in cancer, due to the jupiter influence that's a terrible placement.
Interms of strategy for fighting Mars in Scorpio (highly calculating) and Saturn in Scorpio (keenly perceptive of weaknesses) are atleast as useful as a gemini merc and sun/venus that really aren't that well placed in the sign. Though the sun is stronger than in the other air signs atleast.
A scorpio Mars is as strong a mars as you can get and for strategy it's definitely the most calculating. A mars/saturn conjunction (for fighting anyway) would be more potent in scorps than any other sign, except Cap.
Interms of strategy for fighting Mars in Scorpio (highly calculating) and Saturn in Scorpio (keenly perceptive of weaknesses) are atleast as useful as a gemini merc and sun/venus that really aren't that well placed in the sign. Though the sun is stronger than in the other air signs atleast.
A scorpio Mars is as strong a mars as you can get and for strategy it's definitely the most calculating. A mars/saturn conjunction (for fighting anyway) would be more potent in scorps than any other sign, except Cap.
M
may28gemini
HAHAHAHAHA everyone has to age! To be fair to Silva, I don't think his age has much to do with him losing.
I don't think Saturn's sign has anything to do fighting. Silva has detriment Saturn and had been reigning champ for a very long time. Diego Sanchez is Capricorn Sun with Libra Saturn... didn't he win titles before?
Also, whatever sign the Mars is in, I don't think it effects fighting either. Silva has Pisces Mars, Sanchez has Libra Mars, Muhammed Ali has Taurus Mars. Untraditional Mars have just as much chance to win fights as dignified and exalted Mars.
I don't think Venus has much to do with fighting either. Both Silva and Weidman have Gemini Venus. Gemini Venus is neither a "good" nor "bad" placement but it is intellectual.
The only thing I can think of is really the Gemini stellium vs Aries stellium in which Mercury always causes problems for Mars.
I don't think Saturn's sign has anything to do fighting. Silva has detriment Saturn and had been reigning champ for a very long time. Diego Sanchez is Capricorn Sun with Libra Saturn... didn't he win titles before?
Also, whatever sign the Mars is in, I don't think it effects fighting either. Silva has Pisces Mars, Sanchez has Libra Mars, Muhammed Ali has Taurus Mars. Untraditional Mars have just as much chance to win fights as dignified and exalted Mars.
I don't think Venus has much to do with fighting either. Both Silva and Weidman have Gemini Venus. Gemini Venus is neither a "good" nor "bad" placement but it is intellectual.
The only thing I can think of is really the Gemini stellium vs Aries stellium in which Mercury always causes problems for Mars.
The Ram
Well-known member
I've been watching Silva fight since his old days in Brazil. IMO the Silva that fought last weekend was not close to Silva at his best. Even the dude from a couple of years ago that headkick kod vitor belfort had way better reflexes and timing imo. Belfort has much quicker/more accurate hands than Weidman and Silvas reflexes were on point, I don't think Weidman ko's him a few years ago.
As a fighter ages it's the reflexes and timing that are the first to go. Then speed and the chin. Because a big part of having a good chin is the reflexes and timing to see the punch coming, then brace for it and or make a slight head/upperbody movement to take some of the steam off. At the highest level when those abilities fade even a little a great chin can become an average one.
38 is an old man in fighting years at that level, generally (not always). Ali for instance got absolutely thrashed by Larry Holmes at about that age. Louis was ko'd by marciano, etc.
Sanchez is pretty tough. Then again Capricorns are generally quite tough, due to Mars/saturn influence. Bernard Hopkins is a cap and he's now 48 and the oldest champion in boxing or mma history. Definitely the toughest of the earth signs and one of the toughest signs in general. Sanchez didn't win a title though, he fought once for it against penn a sun sign sag and got destroyed. He did win the ultimate fighter reality show for a ufc contract to get in the ufc to begin with, which i think you meant. To be honest I figured Sanchez would turn out to be better than he is.
I think as with any planet some are just stronger in certain signs. About the fighters you mentioned, perhaps their house positions or aspects made up for this? Or they may have a cap, aries, leo, or scorps influence in other areas, which could compensate.
I don't think all things being equal merc could ever cause problems for a strong mars in a fight. Every planet is intelligent in it's own way. Mars is the planet of war and that would include war strategy, in a fight it would outmaneuvre and outsmart merc every time. Merc has as much a chance beating it in that respect as mars does of beating merc in an essay writing competition, or Saturn out-enticing Venus. I think weidmans merc came into play before the fight as he was supposed to renew his contract, but decided to wait until after the fight which was a risky move. But now as champ that's payed off heavily for him. In a war I think merc would be at the negotiating table, not in the generals chair.
Actually I think a merc in Aries or Scorpio would be better in a fight than a gemini merc as well. But that's not to say that gemini merc is weak for that, because it is strong and I do feel that mars for instance is well placed in the sign.
I don't think Merc is such an enemy of mars either. For one Aries rules the head 2 a lot of the greatest geniuses in history have a fairly big aries or scorpio influence 3 Merc is esoteric ruler of Aries 4 Albert Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci both had merc in Aries and Hitler (who used his communication to hypnotize an entire nation). Merc in Aries seems to give the native a great originality which is the foundation of genius.
As far as the other mars signs go: Stephen Hawking and Nostradamus have Capricorn Mercs.
Scorpio mercs strong as well, with psychic abilities and a famous ability to see beneath the surface. Also the Uranus influence helps since it's a higher octave of Merc. Only famous genius's I can think of with Scorps merc are Picasso and Aleister Crowley, I'm sure there are plenty others.
But I do agree that any placement can be tough. But say if you were to pit ppl with equal placements and aspects otherwise against each other, I think the ppl with the stronger Mars would win more than they'd lose.
As a fighter ages it's the reflexes and timing that are the first to go. Then speed and the chin. Because a big part of having a good chin is the reflexes and timing to see the punch coming, then brace for it and or make a slight head/upperbody movement to take some of the steam off. At the highest level when those abilities fade even a little a great chin can become an average one.
38 is an old man in fighting years at that level, generally (not always). Ali for instance got absolutely thrashed by Larry Holmes at about that age. Louis was ko'd by marciano, etc.
Sanchez is pretty tough. Then again Capricorns are generally quite tough, due to Mars/saturn influence. Bernard Hopkins is a cap and he's now 48 and the oldest champion in boxing or mma history. Definitely the toughest of the earth signs and one of the toughest signs in general. Sanchez didn't win a title though, he fought once for it against penn a sun sign sag and got destroyed. He did win the ultimate fighter reality show for a ufc contract to get in the ufc to begin with, which i think you meant. To be honest I figured Sanchez would turn out to be better than he is.
I think as with any planet some are just stronger in certain signs. About the fighters you mentioned, perhaps their house positions or aspects made up for this? Or they may have a cap, aries, leo, or scorps influence in other areas, which could compensate.
I don't think all things being equal merc could ever cause problems for a strong mars in a fight. Every planet is intelligent in it's own way. Mars is the planet of war and that would include war strategy, in a fight it would outmaneuvre and outsmart merc every time. Merc has as much a chance beating it in that respect as mars does of beating merc in an essay writing competition, or Saturn out-enticing Venus. I think weidmans merc came into play before the fight as he was supposed to renew his contract, but decided to wait until after the fight which was a risky move. But now as champ that's payed off heavily for him. In a war I think merc would be at the negotiating table, not in the generals chair.
Actually I think a merc in Aries or Scorpio would be better in a fight than a gemini merc as well. But that's not to say that gemini merc is weak for that, because it is strong and I do feel that mars for instance is well placed in the sign.
I don't think Merc is such an enemy of mars either. For one Aries rules the head 2 a lot of the greatest geniuses in history have a fairly big aries or scorpio influence 3 Merc is esoteric ruler of Aries 4 Albert Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci both had merc in Aries and Hitler (who used his communication to hypnotize an entire nation). Merc in Aries seems to give the native a great originality which is the foundation of genius.
As far as the other mars signs go: Stephen Hawking and Nostradamus have Capricorn Mercs.
Scorpio mercs strong as well, with psychic abilities and a famous ability to see beneath the surface. Also the Uranus influence helps since it's a higher octave of Merc. Only famous genius's I can think of with Scorps merc are Picasso and Aleister Crowley, I'm sure there are plenty others.
But I do agree that any placement can be tough. But say if you were to pit ppl with equal placements and aspects otherwise against each other, I think the ppl with the stronger Mars would win more than they'd lose.
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M
may28gemini
What you said was really a mess and makes no sense.
Fire and water Mercury signs are emotionally driven and have difficulty in acting out the true nature of Mercury. Mercury is not meant to be a "fighter" anyway. Just as Fire and Water have difficulties acting in the true nature of Saturn as Saturn is not meant to be selfish and ego driven.
I get it, you love Aries and Scorpio because that's what you have in your chart.
Fire and water Mercury signs are emotionally driven and have difficulty in acting out the true nature of Mercury. Mercury is not meant to be a "fighter" anyway. Just as Fire and Water have difficulties acting in the true nature of Saturn as Saturn is not meant to be selfish and ego driven.
I get it, you love Aries and Scorpio because that's what you have in your chart.
The Ram
Well-known member
No doubt. That's the point.
You're the one who said that gemini mercury would give the Aries fighter difficulties in a fight.
Einstein and Da Vinci are considered 2 of the greatest genius's the human race has ever seen, I guess they couldn't act out the true nature of mercury either? Maybe if their mercury's were in Gemini they could have actually been smart?
That's your opinion. You have a heavy saturn influence in your chart. So of course you think he's unselfish, making you unselfish and not ego driven by association.
Even in the mythology of Kronos, the dude ate his own children out of fear of being overthrown. Sounds pretty selfish and ego driven to me.
And you clearly never do this with your own influences, I get it.
Was this really necessary? Your posts don't make much sense either, but atleast I'm being cordial, all I ask is the same. We're both grown ups here. If you don't like what I have to say, no need for attacks, just don't respond.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Not necessarily
The assessment of 'tough' and 'dangerous' is not made by SIGN alone
the condition of the natal ruler is key
i.e. for Capricorn Saturn is domicile ruler and Mars is exalted ruler
ESSENTIAL DIGNITY is a major factor
HOW TO READ THIS TABLE http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html
Not necessarily
The assessment of 'tough' and 'dangerous' is not made by SIGN alone
the condition of the natal ruler is key
i.e. for Capricorn Saturn is domicile ruler and Mars is exalted ruler
ESSENTIAL DIGNITY is a major factor
HOW TO READ THIS TABLE http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html
Thanks for the guide again..
CapAquaPis
Well-known member
Ptolemian astrology isn't adapted by as much astrologers, the planetary dignities list would vary too. I find the Fire signs to have the most physical strength and alertness: Aries, Leo and Sagittarius. The most creative and innovative abilities are in Air signs: Gemini, Libra and Aquarius. The positive energy signs (a.k.a. masculine) should have their strongest points in defense and development. Masculine signs = male chav idea? 
Blaze
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brainpuddle
Well-known member
Strongest: Earth signs
Weakest: Pisces and Leo
Weakest: Pisces and Leo