should i call him?

jag

Well-known member
hi guys

i recently asked a horary and the person who answered that had said go ahead and contact himbut that's not what the horary specifically asked so i'm asking a specific question for this.

i've been in and out of a rel for the 6 years i've known him. think i'mthe longest he's had and belive he truly wants us tobe together but things aren't "in place" for him exactly to commitand i believe he really does want to commitbut is afraid of commitment and afraid of agruments where his parent's divorced at an early age so whenever there isan argument there is a "breakup" which we all know isn't true but his thinking is sometimes limited. so everything points to an interest in a major way still on both parts. so my question is do i call him and i'm hesitant because i have to call him at work. i found number on the internet and then called him so he never gave it to me and said use itbut the heartwrenching, sometimes not nice voicemails, didn't prompt him to do his ever famous"don't contact me anymore" neither did he do that with a letter i sent over three weeks ago asking him to get back to me in two weeks if he wanted me to be involved with another man and if i didn't hear from him i'd assume i wasn't cheating onhim and it was okay to be involved with another man like i was with him. him not getting back to me didn't indicate he didn't want me to be with him because ofpast actions on his part is how i could come to that conclusion; and horary indicated the same thing that he was still much thinking about me in a loving way and that goes against what he would have me thinking. but he has yet to say don't contact me anymore and i sent letters to his work (as his home address has changed and there was no forwarding information so maybe he's finally gotten a house which would be more stability and him able to be in a commited relationship but he doesn't know how to go about it or maybe the house is overwhelming in it's upkeep, idon't know his situation really just yet) and his mom's and neither came back "return to sender" which one could have after reading the first. and insteadof throwing it out "return to sender"would have been really effective on saying don't contact me anymore so there is a real caring but i'mnot sure if i should contact by phone and be in direct communication with him instead of letters, at the moment or maybe i should wait a certain amount of time and i suck at timing on horaries. so maybe someone could help me out, pleaaasseee?????????

march 10, 2007
8:37p.m.
bradford,ma (71w05 42n46)
asc 24lib 26
regio house used

i'm signified by venus and the moon and he's signified by mars. third house of commun is jupiter and end ofmatter is sigifiedby saturn, mars,neptune and mercury/

mercury in the end of matter ispositiveto calling him as a yes,but when?
no aspects between marsand venus but alot with the moon that is my cosignificator. pllus two mercury good aspects due to mercury being the end of house matter. and other aspects that say yes do call him.they are asfollows:

separating aspects first:
venus trine saturn
venus trine jupiter
venus con 7th

appying aspects
moon sex part of fortune
moonsex mars
moon con pluto is the last moon aspect so this is positive
where pluto isinthe third house of communication
jupier con third house of comm
juno is con ascendant
jupiter trine saturn
mercury sex pluto
mercury sex venus

mostofthe aspects were indeedpositive even though there was no aspect to the twomain signifcators.

opposing aspects to planets taht weren't strong or importatnt to consider:

saturn opp neptuen
mercury opp saturn

those were the only two that matched and even the rest of the aspects regarding the other planets not involvedwere positive in this chart; so 90% of the charts entire aspects are positive so i can'timagine i got it wrong but i don't know about my analyzation and whether there is a correct timeframeto initiatethe call.any input would greatly be appreciated where i've nevergotten a chart with mostly positive aspects and mine could be a no answer and not the yes i have derived.

so can anyonetell mewhether this is a yes contact with him and maybe an extra added when where mercury is not retrograde so there should be an open line of communicaqtion if i did getthis translation right and i may not have by a long shot.... :-( only thing i'm courius about is pluto being in the third house and if that cancels out the positive aspects to pluto or if it "evens them out"a bit? that's why i ask ifmaybe not contacting him just yet is the answer and when ishould contact him. or do i have to ask a when do i contact him because this chart can't answer that? i think it can but i'm not sure. if the chart says contact him, maybe it doesn'tmatter if i do it now or three weeks from now.i don't think he will call mebut maybe hewill i didn't ask that question and i know you can't get two answers from the chart.

can anyone take a few minutes to please look at this horary and let me know if the yes answer i got is on target ornot at least if nothing else like timing of the placed call to him???????

thanks for any assistance anyone can provide to this imporant question for me. :)

jag
 

archergirl

Well-known member
Dear Jag,

First of all, I beg you, please, use proper punctuation in your post, including spacing between sentences; your post is nigh on unreadable.

Second, you are making this far too complicated. Start simply. If you have done a number of horaries on this person and this whole 'contact' issue: STOP. One chart will tell you the answer, and if it's an answer that you don't want to hear, it will still be the answer. I suspect this chart is one of many you have done, which will render it worthless, even if it does get read.

Third, you are making the reading of the chart too complicated. Start simply.:)

Look for your significators: Venus and Moon. Look at their house positions; do they 'tally up' with what the question is about?

His significator is Mars; he is placed in the 4th. The only relationship between Mars and Venus is that you (Venus) are in his sign. You are more keen than him. You are also in detriment in his sign, which means that really he's not very good for you. The Moon applies to Mars by sextile; this is you making an 'opportunity' to ring him. The Sun also represents him; Venus and the Sun exchange dignities by exaltation. There is a certain amount of 'putting on a pedestal' going on here, going both ways. Exaltation is not always helpful as it puts pressure on the people to be 'perfect' in some way; not an easy thing!

The significator for the phone call would be Jupiter. The Moon applies to Jupiter as well, and translates the light between Jupiter and Mars. It is likely that you will make the phone call. However, you have to take into consideration that Venus and Mars are *separating*, and Venus and Jupiter are *separating*; Jupiter and the Sun are *separating*: this is a key part of the chart. It shows that the people in question are not moving together, but moving apart. As well, the cusp of the 4th house, which rules 'the end of the matter' is very, very late; something is about to change. The ruler of the 4th is Saturn. Mars opposes Saturn 'with some mutual reception. Traditional texts say that oppositions with reception are like 'two drunks helping each other walk home, and along the way they are likely to fight.'

I am sure that others with more skill than I will be able to find other things in the chart that perhaps will give a different reading or perspective on this chart. In the meantime, I would suggest you to take a look at these planets, their placements, their aspects, poke around a little more in the chart, etc. and consider what they might be saying, especially in light of the soap opera you seem to have found yourself caught up in.

Best wishes and good luck!
AG
 
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archergirl

Well-known member
After receiving some private correspondence about this chart, I would like to stress that I have tried to assist and advise the querent personally, with the best possible intentions, with no aim to hurt anyone's feelings, ever. I am simply reading the chart as I have learned to read them, as a reflection of the querent's situation as s/he has explained it in length per the original post, and reading the question which actually underlies the question the querent asked. I would also like to respectfully point out that I have just noticed that the querent has asked questions relating to this specific matter four times in four months, without, it seems, any resolution or reconciliation to the matter. I do sincerely apologise if I have caused any offense either to the querent or to any of the readers. It is a very human reaction to want to hear what we want to hear; a horary chart will not do this, not for anyone, even me, and believe me, I've tried! ;) I'm hoping that most will understand this.

Cheers,
AG
 
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jag

Well-known member
archergirl

if you indeed meant no harm or hurt feelings maybe you could not be in your own words blunt and consider how what you write affects others. it's not a matter of what they dont' want to hear but the way you are relaying your information. if the answr is no the answer is no. no debating here.

and yes i did take offense to the following from you

"especially in light of the soap opera you seem to have found yourself caught up in."

it was uncalled for and not necessary to make your point in your analysis; it's downright rude. and the charts run have not met with nonresults,quite the contrary to your hasty remarks to again which i find offensive and uncalled for to justify your improper etiquette techniques.

thanks to everyone who hasn't found the need to smackdown a post in so many inconsiderate ways.

i'm sorry i posted this.... didnt' realilze it would come with so many unwelcomed reprimands. just ignore the post if you dont' want to deal with the question. i wish someone with beter skills had answered this and realize now this stands a hope's chance in hell to be answered by anyone else afer this drama present here :-( and it's a drama idid not wish to originally be caught up in. what a mess!!! and all i was looking for was a yes or no answer, that simple really...... i hated to have to write this and it has me torn beyond belief that i've had to.....

smiles
jag
 

archergirl

Well-known member
Dear Jag,

As I said, I believe your question was answered to the best of my ability, although perhaps you will not be satisfied with the answer. Apologies for any offense this may cause, and yes, if an astrologer who is more skilled than I cares to come and correct me, please do! I am still learning and will apologize as many times as necessary if I am incorrect and have caused undue distress.

Best wishes,
AG
 

twiggy

Well-known member
Jag

When I read your post I also got the sense that you were absoulutely desperate and on the brink of a mental breakdown. This is mainly because of how you write, in a 'James Joyce' way without punctuation.

Common sense says that if you haven't even got the guys' phone number, that you should indeed stand back and compose yourself.

Archergirl followed this up with a reading.

I don't think she expressed herself rudely or incompassionately - Because of how you write I think I mistakenly thought your were desperate and in need of a wise word, if not a stern pull-up. I'm sure this comes from a position of concern for your well-being.

We've all been there, made desperate because the guy wont communicate with you, leaves you hanging-on. To not have an ending is the cruellest way they can treat you. I'm a sensible person and it happened to me.

Your severe reaction shows that all is probably not well with you emotionally as your reaction was over the top.

When you post here on the forum you leave yourself open to the interpretations you might get, this is the 'contract' you enter into in hope that you get some educated help for free. I don't really think it is the thread starter's right to stipulate what direction it takes, or 'policing' it. So long as the reply is not abusive.

Maybe you just need to stand back and not think about this guy, let him come to you for a change.

well-meant, cheers:)
 

jag

Well-known member
dear twiggy

i just reread the entire post and in no way does it indicate desperation as you mentionedit did. maybe it's you and archergirl who are overdramatizing in your own imaginations which is too badthat you have to reflect that onto me. that's yours to own not mine. i had to laugh because i was very sane and couldn't see that in any sentence and i'msorry that you made all that you wrote up in your head. gosh that's UTTERLY AND TRULY really a hoot!

originally this was way longer than it need be as i realized you can't get someone manners in a post online and ican't do that for archergirl. she should realize that if shewas to have someone remotely treat her the way she's treated some under the guise of being blunt instead of what is really the case of a bad case of rudeness. i thought this was an astrology web forum and not psychology 101, my mistake! i don't recall anyone being as rude as i was in this post and subsequent post of the case of the lady doth protest too much. it's too bad that someone has to find ways to justify her lack of tact or her "bluntness". if a college professor says that the way i write is A work wellthat's goodenough for me. and no one is twisting anyone's arm to read a post so where's your problemwith my writing or my posting as an emotinal wreck... at any time you could have chosen to click on the next button. again where is your complaint.

and i can't remember the rest of your post because it was so unforgettable and not in the least bit relevant to anyting which goes to show you that anything that isn't important to you inthe next fiveminutes is worth just lettinggo of and so have these postings inthis questin.

so it's done, finis, end of matter everyting period.and nothing you said made any sense to the core of the question...double period.
 
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twiggy

Well-known member
Well, Your attacking archergirl is just unthankful of you for her taking the time and in that, actually showing some concern for you. It's very clearly you that don't have the manners and is feeling upset because the answer wasn't what you looked for. That's not right. And that is all I have to say about this.

edit - Being blunt and lacking tact - we should thank those people out there who can tell the truth forthrightly as it is, they have an important function.

cheers:)
 
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Enigma

Banned
jag

when you ask a question be very brief with explaining the situation. This has nothing to do with commitment.

First of all, we need to know WHAT ARE YOU TRYING to accomplish by calling him?
Second, why are you using asteroids and post saturn planets?
Third, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to read what you are saying, one endless sentence.

you are psychoanalyzing him. it does not work in horary. His feelings towards you will be seen through dignities. You do not need to explain us what you think is going on or what should be going on.

I hate to say this but your question is kind of unclear. What are you trying to accomplish? Did you phrase that in a question?

Phrasing questions is very important. "Should I call X? Will the conversation be possitive?" You can pick up a phone and call anyone on earth *literally.* My question would be "WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?"

my answer to your question is NO! You are wasting your time.

1. let's say this is an issue between 1st and 7th since you named him. Venus does not aspect Mars. No aspect no action.
2. you are under his spell because mars does not even see venus. Well, it does but by face.
3. notice that 4th and 10th are in critical degree. meaning that Venus is separating from Saturn
4. Saturn is important in this chart because it rules A. 4th house and B. it is a planet of the hour.
5. Moon does aspect mars with asextile .. Yes there is an opportunity but Mars does not see Moon either. Mr Mars is too busy with this work.
6. Asce is via combusta .. pretty much saying dont even bother.
7. Moon is SEPARATING from Part of Fortune. Applying aspects only!
8. He is seeing someone else. it is not serious but there is another person.. his 5th house ruler mercury is mutally exchanging with mars by term.. on top, mars gets merc by triplicity.

So if you think you are getting anywhere with him, think again.

Eni
 
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wintersprite1

Premium Member
Enigma said:
I hate to say this but your question is kind of unclear. What are you trying to accomplish? Did you phrase that in a question?

Phrasing questions is very important. "Should I call X? Will the conversation be possitive?" You can pick up a phone and call anyone on earth *literally.* My question would be "WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?"

my answer to your question is NO! You are wasting your time.

So if you think you are getting anywhere with him, think again.

Eni

I am a little confused. By your own admission, the question is unclear. Yet a definative answer is given to an unclear question.

I think we all need to be careful when answering a question that starts off with "should". The word should has fuzzy conitations with different meanings to every individual. We all bring in our own beliefs and misconceptions to a reading and we need to be diligent in not projecting our own preconcieved notions.

Recently, I asked a question on the Horary Board about how to read a yes or no type question. I gave no background on the question. The answer I recieved was, No, he is not interested in you. I thought it was kind of funny and wrote back, that was becoming obvious.. and let it go. The important thing was, there was no discussion about the question, which actually had to do with an educational tutorer to use in home schooling.

Climbing off my soapbox now,

TK
 
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jjj

Well-known member
Dear Jag,

I just wanted to encourage you and say that you are not the only one who is in such an unsupportable situation, I am living the same since 1,5 years. It is difficult if the other person is silent and you are in love with him and getting quietly mad waiting and waiting... But if you feel that you love this person, continue. I do.:)

When I read the first answer to you horary, I had a bad feeling reading the sentence about "soap opera", I did not find it polite. No one has right to give judgements. I like the style of senior members like Rahu, Sorehearted etc who remain very polite, objective and unjudgemental about their statements. Because whoever interpretes a chart must bear in mind that his statement can mean a LOT for the person who posted the horary. A LOT.
 

Enigma

Banned
TK,

the question is unclear. The aswer is not clear either.
Look at intercepted 4th house, hidden agenda or hidden outcme

She can pick up a phone and call him.. it is not like she is calling White House *for crying out loud*. My question is and it remains "what is the point?"

Questions with "should" are quite valid. "should I buy this house?" quite valid to me but her question is "should i call him?" that sounds like a desparation, sort of kind of "ohh I just want to hear his voice" or "gimme some hope that i am not wasting my time" or better yet "please commit to me." If something happened like he got sick or whatever calling up and saying "hi, how are you? i heard that you were sick. is there anythign i can do?" there is no crime in that. But if a person calls just to annoy someone by dumb asking or talking non-sense, forget it!

here is situation where I woudl have run a horary on it.
let's say i needed to get hold of someone that only X knows.
Should I call X? would be valid

Eni
 
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archergirl

Well-known member
For those who obect to my use of the words 'soap opera', may I suggest you re-read the original post. The querent is in an apparently desperate state: her
heartwrenching, sometimes not nice voicemails, didn't prompt him to do his ever famous"don't contact me anymore" neither did he do that with a letter i sent over three weeks ago asking him to get back to me in two weeks if he wanted me to be involved with another man and if i didn't hear from him i'd assume i wasn't cheating onhim and it was okay to be involved with another man like i was with him.
and then
he has yet to say don't contact me anymore and i sent letters to his work
What?!

This is a soap opera if ever there was one, and I stand by my assessment, and see no point in sugar-coating a bad situation. This does NOT mean I don't have sympathy for the querent or that I am belittling her; I've been in the exact same situation with an unresponsive person, desperately trying to have some contact, *any* contact, and it is devastating to be treated with such indifference by someone you feel love for.

The question wasn't necessarily unclear; in fact, it was very clear that the question was not about the phone call, but about the potential state of the relationship. The chart said, quite clearly, that while contact may be made, there is little scope for future development as all the significators are separating.

The querent would do far better to regain her dignity, stop chasing this avoidant man, and walk away.

Best,
AG
 
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jag

Well-known member
hi

just an update without too much personal information because i don't feel it warrants it where i was so "bluntly" attacked and for no just reason besides someone just thinking they are better than me and justified into reading things into areas that don't exist.

i placed a voicemail last sunday after not doing so for maybe four months so it must have been a surprise. i just gave him a heads up that i was looking to contact him and that if he didn't want me to do that he should send me an email or voicemail. i figured he'd email me where there wasn't a chance of direct communication and it's easier to do that if you aren't looking to be contacted, yes? so i left my email and new phone number. i figured i'd give him a week because he might be on travel and so just in case gave a week's time to say hey move on or leave me alone which would be his typical style from knowing him for so long.

i called to leave a quick voicemail tonight and he answered. instead of being horrified it wasn't bad at all. he was busy with schoolwork. he's taking a course he absolutely abhors and just lost alot of work that he couldn't retrieve. so being in such a quandry it would have been easy to be downright nasty or tell me to move on or leave him alone. he could have just let his total anger of his schoolwork overtake him and take it out on me especially where my last contact before these phone calls were not exactly nice and asked should i get romantically involved with another i had been getting to know recently. so of course he said he had to go and i said i'd be in touch shortly i was gathering my thoughts together and hadn't expected him to answer the phone. perfect opportunity to say jag please leave me alone i'm not interested in contact by you and i think you should have moved on by now. instead he didnt' block the invite of calling him in the near future which will probably be this week in a few days. was going to tomorrow but i think it's appropriate to wait a few days since i spoke with him tonight briefly.

so unlike archergirl's nasty comparison to a soap opera it is turning out to be just the opposite. i might be able to accomplish what i was hoping to do with my asking the initial question. and that is just to finally talk things out and hopefully salvage a good friendship as we were good friends through all this. i was not in any way casting down my heart and pleading love me oh for god's sakes love me. it has been heartwrenching for many reasons and i won't get into them; those that understand have been in touch and they are the ones who truly get it and will be, if they aren't already, great astrolgers because they aren't mean spirited and have to keep protesting too much to try and rectify their mean spirited ways. you were reading way to much into things and that's your problem not mine. things have worked out fabulously, better than i could have ever hoped for. will they work out in the long run, who knows but it's good to know you were dead wrong on your analysis and i asked the question somewhere else and was treated with dignity and respect and without the inappropriate condemnation of a wanna be nurse, please don't do that to the public let people get professional, caring and considerate medical care and not be subjected to your bluntness; i shiver thinking i'd get sick and be subjected to your harsh, inconsiderate care. the best nurses, and please my god NP don't do it to the staff under you they don't deserve the abusive ways you exhibit, aren't ones with nurse rachet tendencies. enough on that.

when someone mentioned he was seeing someone else and it wasn't serious, i reapproached the person who had given me a yes or no answer and he said the chart clearly had a yes answer and went through why and asked them if he was seeing another. not that it mattered as i wasn't specifically seeking a reuniting situation that was alluded to. he said he wasn't qualified to answer but maybe someone else would. so i figured i was dead in the water but it wasn't an important configuration to the equation. but then a professionally paid astrologer who i have used with great success in the long ago past answered that question among other things. he was seeing someone but was not currently involved even nonromantically.

it was also stated by archergirl that my posts were receiving no progress and to stop asking questions. again my lady you have been dead wrong. they haven't been making progress according to your scale and interpretation of things. my thing was seeking closure and well if things work out better than just that, well that's then icing on the cake. from his actions i am not seen in the light you have me being seen in. from what he has done there is still a need on his end to be in touch also or else he's had several convenient opportunities to say "get a life and get out of mine", he and i have a relationship unlike anyone you have ever experienced and that's obvious from your personal email which i found sad for you.

i'm writing this not to receive anymore callous and explanatory posts from you but for others who may feel unfairly criticized when asking a simple question. don't let someone's meanness stop you from making the best decisions for you even though you are asking astrology for its take on things. it is meant for guidance not to be used as the bible. ask, receive your answer hopefully by an astrologer who isn't a wanna be pyschologist, and then put your best foot forward and work towards the best in your query. this is the first time i've experienced outright, on purpose not niceness when it is uncalled for. hopefully others can see from my results (and thats why i chose to post a last follow up and leave the rest of the outcome to the two of us) that they don't have to take harsh replies to heart. i prefer honesty and want the correct answer to a chart but the uncalled for interjections aren't in the least professional and i'd assume used in a practice would cause clients to leave very quickly but it's safe to be outright mean on a public forum and then justify our actions as perfectly acceptable and i've found those who are so blunt can't handle it when they are receving bluntness themselves. i ask to receive whatever the truth may be... yes i hope for the best of outcomes but sometimes sorrow and bad news are in the cards and so be it.

jag
 

archergirl

Well-known member
jag,

You are still grossly misunderstanding my posts, and I think you probably do this deliberately, as you seem to be the type of person who needs quite a bit of drama in her life.

I *read your chart*, and when you ask the same question over and over and over again, to different astrologers on different sites, you will get an inaccurate chart. It is also a huge waste of time for astrologers spread out all over the world to be asked, on public forums, to please read for free, charts that turn out to be invalid because they've already been done elsewhere. My *reading* of the chart was not wrong; your asking the same question over and over, obsessively, was. I don't understand what it is that you don't get about this very simple rule.

You *choose* to see me as being rude and cruel. I wasn't, and I'm not. But I see no need to sugarcoat an issue, and you clearly *do* have issues to which you are oversensitive. You are projecting a lot of qualities onto me and making all sorts of assumptions about me, in reaction to what I said.

Again, I will stress to you, I read the chart you put in front of me. That you didn't like the answer it gave is *your* issue. That the answer turned out to be incorrect, is *your* issue, because you put up a false chart under false pretences. (And actually, the chart wasn't necessarily wrong; I did say contact could be made. Only I also said that the relationship was separating. Interpret that how you will.)

Horary doesn't work the way you've done it. Period. You ask your question, ONCE, and you get your answer. If you don't like the answer, tough. The stars are utterly indifferent to your sensitivities and insecurities. Asking over and over again, month after month, until you get an answer you LIKE is the wrong way to go about it, and this is, quite clearly, what you have done.

This forum is for astrologers of all skill levels to come and practice their art, not a Dear Abby column or a space for Gestalt therapy. I took the time to read your chart, and told you what I thought about the situation *purely on the information you provided in your post and your several other posts for the same question*, and instead of simply disagreeing with my reading, you have channelled all your vitriol toward me, which is quite inappropriate.

I see from your natal chart, posted elsewhere on this site, that you have Neptune smack on your ascendant, squaring your Leo Moon/Mars. I would very gently suggest that sometimes, you see what you want to see in life and people, and nothing else. You have some tough natal configurations and this is no doubt a struggle for you.

I do hope things work out for you. It was never my intention to make things worse for you or to cause bad feelings. I will now bow out of this drama, because it was not my drama to begin with, and will go nowhere.

Cheers,
AG
 
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jag

Well-known member
hi archergirl

thanks for the heartfelt apologies for your words/actions. i appreciate the kind gesture.

i don't use this or any other astrology site for a dear abby or psychology 101 and appreciate you coming to terms with that realization and acknowledging that. i did not reask the question... i used the same information (date,time place and exact question) just asked for another person to unbiasedly answer and analyze the terms with which i asked on this forum. so i wasn't asking until i got the answer i asked for and i was just given the take on the question by a professinally unrude responding individual. it was stated that i should make the call but to expect some interference that might come from a call to a man in particular. i do not keep asking until i get the answer i choose to receive because i do know that that's not what horary is all about and so i didn't reask i just used the info i had already posted on this site and instead got very direct answers to the question and then some which was nice and unexpected. also instead of getting defensiveness when i asked further distinction of the qustion, i was told to repost and maybe somene else with more experience would answer. i thought the question was now dead and buried and instead got the well known astrologer to answer the question and wish methe best instead of attacking me in anemotional sense or any other way of insinuating i was using the site in any way. i don't do that and am grateful for those willing to share their knowledge and as i can see, as have others who have followedthreads of mine have seen, there has been positivegrowth from the queries instead of wasting others time with what you deemed as redundant when they haven't been. so no matter what happens from here out, well it's all good and that's better than i could have everhoped for or dreamed of and should make those who have been online assisting or private messaging be gladthey were a part of something helpful and spiritually rewarding. i may have those aspects you mention in my natal chart but i've worked through all that and there are ways to grow and overcome some of those things you mentioned which friends and people who know me have acknowledged over time. thanks for pointing that out to me because it has had me realize that i have overcome them and with pride.

so again thank you for posting your apology, it is accepted and appreciated.

jag
 
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