The truth about natal astrology

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
The truth about natal astrology is that it’s widely generalized nowadays and a lot of misinformation has been spread. It has gone through many changes throughout history, and here I want to say how useless some parts of modern astrology are (will get to this later). Right off the bat, I’m going to state that natal astrology does work. It’s accurate and precise. However, this does not mean it covers everything! Natal astrology is not about personality, about what signs you attract, about your love life, about your everyday thoughts, about the way you behave. In reality, these things are only secondary to what natal describes.

Radix bases itself on the primary and main characteristics and events that will happen to a person throughout their life. It doesn’t speak about personality. To do this, astrology uses a language, which would be the signs and the aspects. Different signs different energies, yes, but they don’t signify something that’s unique to you or to a group of people; everyone is going to experience every Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus sign at some point in their lives. See, this is where the main problem with modern astrology comes.

Modern astrology tries to tell us that each placement in your chart describes your general personality and traits, but in reality, this is far from true. This is why there’s so much bad articles on the internet about planetary positions. They’re all generalized and people believe they’re accurate due to the “close-enough” effect, which makes people think a prediction is accurate when it is near the truth, but not exact. If I tell you :mars: in :libra: makes you want to fight (Mars) for (balance), then I’m not giving you anything that actually describes you. Don’t jump into thinking “but I actually do that a lot!”, when in reality, everybody has fought for balance at some point. It gets worse when people alter the meaning of the planet to make it match their lives a bit more, i.e by saying Mars represents emotional war or something along those lines. It doesn’t.

To exemplify, we’ll see, in its abstract-most sense, what an aspect such as :mars: in libra: :quincunx: :sun: in :pisces: means.

Mars does not, and I repeat, does not primarily signify war, vengeance, blood or hatred. These are derived meanings that come from the true meaning which would be, ‘need for impulse and attack’, ‘heartfelt impulse’, ‘impulse without thought’ or simply ‘impulse’. These things are the ones that made wars happen, the ones that made blood shed, the ones that make people practice sports, fight, hate, etc.

:mars: is considered to have an astrological influence since it’s a trait that every human shares. Every human being has felt impulse, be it when they got angry and felt an urge to slam the door or to kick an object.

If Mars is in Libra, then in begins (cardinal/moveable) to communicate (airy) things that are considerate and balanced (humane sign). If Mars is in Libra, then Mars acts according to the principles of balance that’s communicated and stated.

On the other hand, :sun: in :pisces: represents honesty, heart and goodness in the sign of the fish that go in opposite ways. The Sun speaks the need that every human has to do the right thing, to stop what they consider that has been wrong and decidedly try to do what was meant to be the best for them and for everyone to begin with and to make the promise to never let go of the principle that accompanies said action or choice. This is why the Sun is gold; it represents integrity and whole-heartedness. When the Sun is in Pisces, it fluctuates (common/mutable) between emotions (watery sign) that could even be extreme opposites (bicorporeal sign) to easily connect with other bodies or beings (moist).

It is clear that there’s a clear inconjunction between the basic principles of the two planets described above, since the very first basis of Libra is to seek balance, which is absolutely not provided by having a sign such as Pisces considering two extremes and fluctuating between two sides. Therefore there’s a very uncomfortable tension that’s caused between the signs. The aspect, with all things considered, would therefore represent someone who’s integrity and wholeheartedness is usually experienced with emotional variability and with a lack of focus on a single point; usually being indecisive about what would be the absolute best choice or action, while Mars’s placement represents said person to have the urge to establish an absolute balance. Even though this may successfully bring down some of the Sun’s indecisiveness, the above said incompatibility will still be there.

Now, do you think this aspect describes the personality of a person? No, it does not. Even if you take into consideration houses (like Sun in the 9th being that the person’s integrity comes from their ideals, while Mars’s urge comes from a deep-rooted personal feeling) it still is vague. You’ve probably felt the energy that I just described thousands of times before; you felt like you were considering two sides of the same situation and felt unsure, but in the end, in an impulse, you decided over doing one action or the other.

This is the main reason as to why modern astrology is based on generalization and false ideas; these aspects do not describe anything related to a person’s personality and usual mindset. This is where you’ve got to consider natal astrology’s original and true meaning: its purpose is to describe emphasis of energies on a person’s life. It does not describe the traits or characteristics, but rather, the energies that will transcend and have a larger impact upon a person’s lifetime. Therefore, we can deduce that everyone is going to experience every aspect in every house with every planet combination in their lives, but, very few of these expressions will affect how their life will ultimately play out. The presence of these highlights are, in a way, subjective, depending on the language used. That is why there is a lot of confusion about what the true house system or zodiac system is. Think of it as people (systems) telling you, in their opinions, what was the most outstanding moments of your life (natal potential). Some may say it was this, while others may say some other thing.

If these main events or highlights in your natal energy were caused by your basic personality or habits, then that’s secondary to the meaning of the prediction, but therefore not essential.

Lastly, I wanted to say that aspects in a natal horoscope only acquire concrete and accurate meaning when you consider the objective and material consequences of them. For example, a Moon in Libra that is inconjunct a Mercury in Pisces makes people that have anxiety, that could have OCD or one of its many varieties.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The truth about natal astrology is that it’s widely generalized nowadays and a lot of misinformation has been spread. It has gone through many changes throughout history, and here I want to say how useless some parts of modern astrology are (will get to this later). Right off the bat, I’m going to state that natal astrology does work. It’s accurate and precise. However, this does not mean it covers everything! Natal astrology is not about personality, about what signs you attract, about your love life, about your everyday thoughts, about the way you behave. In reality, these things are only secondary to what natal describes.

Radix bases itself on the primary and main characteristics and events that will happen to a person throughout their life. It doesn’t speak about personality. To do this, astrology uses a language, which would be the signs and the aspects. Different signs different energies, yes, but they don’t signify something that’s unique to you or to a group of people; everyone is going to experience every Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus sign at some point in their lives. See, this is where the main problem with modern astrology comes.

Modern astrology tries to tell us that each placement in your chart describes your general personality and traits, but in reality, this is far from true. This is why there’s so much bad articles on the internet about planetary positions. They’re all generalized and people believe they’re accurate due to the “close-enough” effect, which makes people think a prediction is accurate when it is near the truth, but not exact. If I tell you :mars: in :libra: makes you want to fight (Mars) for (balance), then I’m not giving you anything that actually describes you. Don’t jump into thinking “but I actually do that a lot!”, when in reality, everybody has fought for balance at some point. It gets worse when people alter the meaning of the planet to make it match their lives a bit more, i.e by saying Mars represents emotional war or something along those lines. It doesn’t.
Well said :smile:
and important as well to keep in mind
your good point regarding astrological generalisation
and to highlight that
:mars: in :libra: is not the same for every natal chart

because
VENUS domicile ruler of :libra: may be in any one of the twelve SIGNS
dependent on when the native aka person was born

and so
:mars: in :libra: with VENUS in ARIES
is a very different delineation from that of

:mars: in :libra: when natal VENUS is in TAURUS

or
:mars: in :libra: with natal VENUS in GEMINI

or
:mars: in :libra: with VENUS in CANCER

or
:mars: in :libra: with VENUS in LEO

or
:mars: in :libra: with VENUS in VIRGO

and so on
i.e.
when natal VENUS is in LIBRA, SCORPIO, SAGITTARIUS, CAPRICORN, AQUARIUS, PISCES
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
To exemplify, we’ll see, in its abstract-most sense, what an aspect such as :mars: in libra: :quincunx: :sun: in :pisces: means.

Mars does not, and I repeat, does not primarily signify war, vengeance, blood or hatred. These are derived meanings that come from the true meaning which would be, ‘need for impulse and attack’, ‘heartfelt impulse’, ‘impulse without thought’ or simply ‘impulse’. These things are the ones that made wars happen, the ones that made blood shed, the ones that make people practice sports, fight, hate, etc.

:mars: is considered to have an astrological influence since it’s a trait that every human shares. Every human being has felt impulse, be it when they got angry and felt an urge to slam the door or to kick an object.

If Mars is in Libra, then in begins (cardinal/moveable) to communicate (airy) things that are considerate and balanced (humane sign). If Mars is in Libra, then Mars acts according to the principles of balance that’s communicated and stated.

On the other hand, :sun: in :pisces: represents honesty, heart and goodness in the sign of the fish that go in opposite ways. The Sun speaks the need that every human has to do the right thing, to stop what they consider that has been wrong and decidedly try to do what was meant to be the best for them and for everyone to begin with and to make the promise to never let go of the principle that accompanies said action or choice. This is why the Sun is gold; it represents integrity and whole-heartedness. When the Sun is in Pisces, it fluctuates (common/mutable) between emotions (watery sign) that could even be extreme opposites (bicorporeal sign) to easily connect with other bodies or beings (moist).

It is clear that there’s a clear inconjunction between the basic principles of the two planets described above, since the very first basis of Libra is to seek balance, which is absolutely not provided by having a sign such as Pisces considering two extremes and fluctuating between two sides. Therefore there’s a very uncomfortable tension that’s caused between the signs. The aspect, with all things considered, would therefore represent someone who’s integrity and wholeheartedness is usually experienced with emotional variability and with a lack of focus on a single point; usually being indecisive about what would be the absolute best choice or action, while Mars’s placement represents said person to have the urge to establish an absolute balance. Even though this may successfully bring down some of the Sun’s indecisiveness, the above said incompatibility will still be there.

Now, do you think this aspect describes the personality of a person? No, it does not. Even if you take into consideration houses (like Sun in the 9th being that the person’s integrity comes from their ideals, while Mars’s urge comes from a deep-rooted personal feeling) it still is vague. You’ve probably felt the energy that I just described thousands of times before; you felt like you were considering two sides of the same situation and felt unsure, but in the end, in an impulse, you decided over doing one action or the other.

This is the main reason as to why modern astrology is based on generalization and false ideas; these aspects do not describe anything related to a person’s personality and usual mindset. This is where you’ve got to consider natal astrology’s original and true meaning: its purpose is to describe emphasis of energies on a person’s life. It does not describe the traits or characteristics, but rather, the energies that will transcend and have a larger impact upon a person’s lifetime. Therefore, we can deduce that everyone is going to experience every aspect in every house with every planet combination in their lives, but, very few of these expressions will affect how their life will ultimately play out. The presence of these highlights are, in a way, subjective, depending on the language used. That is why there is a lot of confusion about what the true house system or zodiac system is. Think of it as people (systems) telling you, in their opinions, what was the most outstanding moments of your life (natal potential). Some may say it was this, while others may say some other thing.

If these main events or highlights in your natal energy were caused by your basic personality or habits, then that’s secondary to the meaning of the prediction, but therefore not essential.

Lastly, I wanted to say that aspects in a natal horoscope only acquire concrete and accurate meaning when you consider the objective and material consequences of them. For example, a Moon in Libra that is inconjunct a Mercury in Pisces makes people that have anxiety, that could have OCD or one of its many varieties.
important to continue avoiding generalisation by
taking into account
that a Moon in Libra in aversion with Mercury in Pisces
delineates differently
because of different natal SIGN locations of VENUS ruler of LIBRA
and
JUPITER ruler of PISCES
house location of those rulers also is a consideration :smile:

 

david starling

Well-known member
The truth about natal astrology is that it’s widely generalized nowadays and a lot of misinformation has been spread.

Lastly, I wanted to say that aspects in a natal horoscope only acquire concrete and accurate meaning when you consider the objective and material consequences of them. For example, a Moon in Libra that is inconjunct a Mercury in Pisces makes people that have anxiety, that could have OCD or one of its many varieties.

Nice rant! I totally agree that much of what Modern-astrology pontifcators say is uninformed by the Astrological matrix, and is something they make up themselves, and then act as though it's "gospel truth".
One note of observation though. I would say that greater than normal anxiety (we all feel anxious at times), and OCD, ARE personality traits. Also, I have personally observed that many personality traits can be predictable outcomes of the Natal-chart configurations. Thank you for your intensity and your well-considered opinions.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
fact is
it's important to keep in mind the factors I outlined earlier

Astrologer Judith Hill matched biographies and natal charts successfully when tested :smile:

Here is a quote from her website, and a link:
“......Judith Hill is an internationally recognized Astrologer, researcher
and award winning author of many books
with a lifetime of experience in all fields of the art.
She accepted a 1986 NCGR sponsored skeptic’s challenge and WON!
by SUCCESSFULLY MATCHING FIVE ANONYMOUS BIOGRAPHIES to FIVE NATAL CHARTS.
Her scientific research projects in astro-genetics and astro-seismology
have received international attention.......”
http://www.judithhillastrology.com/l...sed/88-welcome


Judith Hill did a very good study on MARS IN THE CHARTS OF RED HEADS
She did this study twice, both with significant results.
 

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
Nice rant! I totally agree that much of what Modern-astrology pontifcators say is uninformed by the Astrological matrix, and is something they make up themselves, and then act as though it's "gospel truth".
One note of observation though. I would say that greater than normal anxiety (we all feel anxious at times), and OCD, ARE personality traits. Also, I have personally observed that many personality traits can be predictable outcomes of the Natal-chart configurations. Thank you for your intensity and your well-considered opinions.

By OCD I meant an objective outcome of what said aspect could give, not as yet another personality trait. Not everybody can be diagnosed with said disorder, rarely do people get diagnosed with mental illnesses, actually.

If personality traits are predictable outcomes, then that would be something that's correlated to these energies being so emphasized in their lives. Furthermore, many people have felt as if other house/zodiac systems describe their personalities better, as in providing more subjective accuracy, when in reality, as I already said before, natal only truly describes emphasis and main events; it's focused on the material and the objective, not the subjective and the ideal.


Natal placement descriptions and aspects are so generalized by definition when they are focused on personality traits that predictions can be accurate most of the time, again, this is why so much people differ from what the best system in astrology is (they can all feel accurate since they're all generalizing). In reality, only one house system should be considered as the best, and it depends on which of the systems offered the most objectively accurate description.

Natal aspects and placements can only truly work by describing and not generalizing things; in other words, by describing things that are objective. It's not because they don't describe personalities because they don't want to (they can do this indirectly), but objective things such as profession, habits, illnesses, assets, etc. are the only possible measure where everyone will agree, but when considering personality you may end up not agreeing or changing your mind, considering how generalized they might be.


So my main points are:

a) Only objective and material outcomes can be used to measure the accuracy of a house system, such as the profession, the money, the quality of the marriage, etc.

b) The only thing natal charts can actually predict are main aspects and events in a person's life.

c) These main events or emphasized energies can be traced back to personality traits. For example, if a chart promises the native reaching a high status or being successful in their career, it could be correlated to said person's perseverance and hard-work, and therefore predicted and known through the astrological placements. If the person didn't work that much for that outcome, then the success shown in the natal chart would still be there.

d) Natal horoscopes are limited and only describe HIGHLIGHTS of a life. This is where it gets disappointing; natal charts won't tell you specific aspects of your personality. This is why in order to be a good astrologer you've got to research other branches of the pseudo-science, such as horary, solar returns or transits.
 
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