karmic relation - need some help.

So I was told by my therapist (who also says she´s psychic) and an astrologer I have this karma-thing ahead for about a year.

First I did not want to believe. But then I reflected on what was going on in my life and what they said. And there is this person I have an extremely difficult relation to. So difficult we can only meet about once a month (no there is no physical distance). And in this relation we are forced to meet our greatest fears, work with them and oooh it´s so hard. Trying to accept it now. But as this all began I just wanted to be in love and have it easy going. But I definitely had some karma to work with. That I had been running away from many years.

Anyhow I know nothing about karmic astrology. The astrologer was no karma specialist. She just said that t. chiron and neptune squaring my sun (in seventh house) indicates this. And she said it probably has to do with a man that is like this and that. Of course, she did not know anything about me before!

Can this be? What about the other persons chart. I sometimes think he is not willing to work with his karma. Because he is afraid that he will be different afterwards if he does. And rather suffers forever than deals with his fears. Althou, yes he talks about fears and feelings. But then draws back like a crab. Is there a way to see the karma and how he will work it out in his chart?

[thread moved to Greenhorns as poster knows no Karmic astrology and gave no interpretation of own chart. Moderator]

Neptune transits square Sun
*Your energy level is lower at this time and you are susceptible to catching colds and other illnesses. Regular exercise is excellent for you, but avoid pushing yourself too far as your body doesn't withstand stress and exertion very well now. Also, avoid making drastic changes to your diet; improving your diet, of course, is beneficial, but your body is sensitive and unlikely to adapt well to sudden changes
http://www.cafeastrology.com/neptunetransits.html

It be most helpful to ‘post’ your chart (rather than data), for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here. There is an option in Extended chart selection to ‘anonymised drawing (without name)’ box http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

[deleted non-astrological comment not relevant to the discussion - Moderator]

I quite obviously did not make myself clear. I am not interested in getting my chart interpreted. I know all the free stuff on the net. My story is I am going through a very sad relation that forces me to learn things I never wanted to know. But this other person involved has turned his back against me (no fights or hard words) cause it is too difficult to him.

My question is, can the mentioned transit, chiron and neptune square sun be an indicator of a karmic relationship. And how could I possibly find this out in the other person´s chart?

I´ve never said I like it and never suggested anybody else should do this. Hmm, this is probably too highfly for you. Some people have to go through nasty stuff. That´s karma.

i think haize´s post has nothing to do with astrology

Gwenyhfair said:

I quite obviously did not make myself clear. I am not interested in getting my chart interpreted. I know all the free stuff on the net. My story is I am going through a very sad relation that forces me to learn things I never wanted to know. But this other person involved has turned his back against me (no fights or hard words) cause it is too difficult to him.

My question is, can the mentioned transit, chiron and neptune square sun be an indicator of a karmic relationship. And how could I possibly find this out in the other person´s chart?

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Saturn is the Lord of Karma and master teacher, but really he's trying to teach us about ourselves. It wants us to be responsible, hard working, dutiful and learn our Lessons properly, so they won't have to keep being repeated. Therefore, is usually suggests things slowing down, delays, limitations and restrictions so we can learn these Lessons.

What Saturn does is 'test' what is of value to you and what is working in your life. It wants structure and hard work. If something isn't working--- it may well end--- so something better can be put in it's place.

Unless you know the other person's time of birth, place and date of birth, we cannot comment on another person. We are all visual here and need to see charts. The North Node also involves Lessons with people and what we are striving to learn this time around.

Your Neptune transit will be affecting you and you alone and perhaps a little more research in this direct.

When comparing the synastry between two natal charts, I view the outer to inner planet contacts to be "karmic"........with the outer planet individual doing the teaching and the inner planet person doing the learning.

I believe some astrologers also view transitting outer to natal inner planets as "karmic"......which appears to be the case with the psychic referred to here......Thus, transitting Chiron/Neptune in 7th and square Sun might indicate a karmic relationship with someone who is evasive/unable to confront their own Chiron wounds......and that appears to have happened.

However, to ascertain the actual "karmic" areas of this relationship, a synastry comparison of the two natal charts is now required.......focusing upon the outer/inner planet contacts.

Thus, as A50 states, the Neptune transit affects you (Gwenyhfair) and you alone.........in the form of a difficult relationship....But, through synastry, you can obtain further information about the difficult karma of this specific this relationship.

Thank´s. Now we are talking

yes of course I know my personal transits directly affect only me. Nept & chiron are transiting my sun in seventh house.

The synastry thing seems interesting here. Here´s the chart. I´m in the inner ring. I`m really looking forward to hear some interesting comments on this. Karmic astrology or synastry is really not my strongest area.

First thing that strikes me is your natal mars conj his N Node. So there is something about the way you act (mars) and communicate (3rd house) that will ultimately benefit his Lessons/karma in this lifetime.

His mercury is trine your mercury/venus which is excellent, but his merc is retrograde ie: going backwards and he will need to internalise his thoughts and analyse them before they can come out coherantly.

His sun square your moon which shows his ego,pride and values (sun) are at odds with your Moon in pisces which is dreamy, sensitive and very sacrificing and prob in 4th house in Equal house system which I use.

His Saturn is opposed to your jupiter/neptune which suggests if he was a father or authority figure person in your life could well have crushed your dreams (neptune) and how you want to expand and grow in Saggi connected (9th house) to your belief system.

Your mercury/venus is square his moon prob Leo suggesting your communications and whatever gives your pleasure in taurus (who always wants stability, reassurance and grounding) in 6th Equal house prob affected your health cos they were at odds with his emotional and intuitive nature in think Leo which is bossy extrovert and cares what other people think and likes to be centre of attention. If late cancer he would be moody, broody sensitive and tight with money

Your mercury/venus quincunxs his pluto in 11th house (Equal) is the real culprit here. It means that for whatever reason your communications are at odds with this pluto issues to do with power, control, obsessing. His pluto in 1st house, I call this a plutonic lid cos these people can hold themselves aloof, distant and secretive, private person.

His mercury is quincunxed your Sun/saturn conjunction. This sun/saturn alone suggests a problem with father or authority figures. the restriction, limitations. The outer planets are quite close to each other suggesting poss a sibling or peer group as this person is simply not older enough to be a father.

Your chiron is likely in 5th house conj 6th cusp, for further research on this wounding try these links

Chiron thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976

Further discussions on AW and links from this thread….
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html

Your moon however is sextile his venus, which creates an 'opportunity' to emotionally show some affection however.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..

If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html


Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression


Hope this helps

Thank you very much A50.

Since we are born the same year outer planets are quite the same positions. So the neptune-saturn opposition goes both ways, right?
I know my sun-sat conj natally means trouble with father. I have no problems with authority, I am authority . But I have no dad and although he was kind of present in my younger years he gave no good role model.

This man is no father figure to me, but maybe the karma in the relationship is he always wanted to be the boss. He has a very strange perception of women. They shall be kind and loving, understanding and smart, but yet NOT allowed to make desicions. He wants to be head of family at any cost. Even if it means the walls fall down and there is constant fights. Now that I am in all ways more mature than him and stronger, but still a nice lovely lady his world falls apart. I did not want to share his opinion, live in a shack (because HE owns it) fight every day etc etc. This is his life with other women not me.

His moon is either early leo /late cancer, I do not know his exact minutes of birth. But the strange thing is, he has all the bad sides of both signs!?! He´s all the things you wrote about his moon position.

Since we are born the same year outer planets are quite the same positions. So the neptune-saturn opposition goes both ways, right?

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No not really, he has Saturn opp Neptune natally which suggests a 'fear of the unknown' and his father crushing his dreams, ideals and can on occasion be bit depressive etc.

His saturn is the cautious, restrictive nature in your 7th house of one to one relationships which suggests a reluctance, delay and seriousness in relating on one to one basis. Now this opposes your jupiter/neptune which is excellent for philsophical beliefs, travel, jovialness coupled with dreamy impractical neptune, positive traits can be spiritual, intuitive, sensitive, idealistic, sees the good in everyone - negative traits are gullible, easily led, unpractical, dreamy, over idealistic. All depends if your neptune/jupiter is opposite your Sun/saturn in 7th. Cos there are no degrees on the chart, can't really tell. Obviously if they are that puts a different spin on things...

Your Uranus square his venus which if found natally would be the divorce aspect, but in a friendship still suggests the two of you need lots of freedom and independence as well. Plus your pluto squaring his mercury, wants to analyse, dig deep and subjective or objectively control or manipulate communications.

A50 said:

......Your chiron is likely in 5th house conj 6th cusp...

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I agree with all you say on the synastry, A50......except G's Chiron seems to be "4th house conjunct 5th cusp".

EJ

This man is no father figure to me, but maybe the karma in the relationship is he always wanted to be the boss. He has a very strange perception of women. They shall be kind and loving, understanding and smart, but yet NOT allowed to make desicions. He wants to be head of family at any cost. Even if it means the walls fall down and there is constant fights. Now that I am in all ways more mature than him and stronger, but still a nice lovely lady his world falls apart. I did not want to share his opinion, live in a shack (because HE owns it) fight every day etc etc. This is his life with other women not me.

Click to expand...

Even though you may not see this man as a father figure, the way you described him is a perfect description of a traditional "father". I think what you are dealing with is the patriarchal archetype that wants a female subservient to him. Some of the males in society have done a fair job of shaking off this way of relating, but sadly, in much of the world, it is still very dominant. It seems to be worse with men raised in religions that support this type of male behavior.

He probably needs to work on his childhood relationship with his parents, specifically his mother, and how his father related to her. He needs to reexamine any religious beliefs/societal beliefs he was raised with. Maybe he was taught to believe that he is a failure at being a man if he does not act like this - since this is what society has encourage a man to be.

The fact that he does encourage intelligence in a woman shows that he's not that far gone. The fear of wanting a woman to make decisions probably stems from his mother, who made decisions FOR him, and they may have been very detrimental to him - not considering his will at all.
Many men do not really want to be the patriarchal type, but do so subconsciously out of self-defense, to protect themselves against women trying to control them, as their mother did.

FL

first of all I most comment: "fear of the unknown and father crushing his dreams". The person in a nutshell

I can tell the nept-sat opposition is rather exact in both charts (orb less than 10degrees). My jupiter is opp sun and saturn in my natal chart and opp his saturn exactly.

Could you A50 please elaborate the uranus sq. venus aspect. Do you mean in a natal chart it is a divorce aspect?

This man is no cancer, except for the moon that could be 29 degrees cancer. Freedomlover, I really appreciate your thoughts, they fit in the case. I must tell though he was raised in a totally atheist family. I even think the lack of any religious support from the parents has hurt him. Looky looky, he has stellium in fourth house, sun there = the cancer´s home!?

Thanks

(Chiron in 4 hs close to the 5hs cusp)

From cafeastrology on uranus sq venus in synastry: Electric attraction characterizes this pairing. However, both will have to deal with an inability to truly count on one another over time. The Uranus person may resent any hint that the Venus person wants more of a commitment from, or structure in, the relationship. Affection may be inconstant, or the two may often be separated from one another at key moments. In order for this relationship to work, both parties need to expect the unexpected. This relationship can be an emotional rollercoaster ride, particularly for the Venus person. When the Venus person is feeling especially romantic, the Uranus person may be just out of reach somehow, whether it is a physical reality or takes the form of mental or emotional distancing. This relationship has an erratic, unstable, but exciting quality.

The uranus person

Gwenyhfair said:

This man is no cancer, except for the moon that could be 29 degrees cancer. Freedomlover, I really appreciate your thoughts, they fit in the case. I must tell though he was raised in a totally atheist family. I even think the lack of any religious support from the parents has hurt him. Looky looky, he has stellium in fourth house, sun there = the cancer´s home!?

Thanks

(Chiron in 4 hs close to the 5hs cusp)

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Actually, atheistic/patriarchal religion- same difference. The problem with people being ******* up by patriarchal religions is this: The religions says they are teaching you how to relate to God - what God wants. But what they are actually teaching is fear and intimidation and working to please God - which is the foundation of the false god/patriarchal system. They teach for the female to submit to her husband as leader and that the man should be the head of the household, rule over female and children. Where is God in all of this? They make the man to be god. So a man raised with atheistic parents is in the same boat. Who is god? He is. Is there anyone higher than him that has any power over him? Not in his book - unless it is a bigger/stronger man/more powerful man. I've listened to many people who were raised in patriarchal religions that are now atheists. Every one of them became atheist because they said that they did not believe in god. Well, no wonder, they were 100% correct not to believe in the "god" they were raised to serve - which is the male and/or the male archetype, which is the belief that you have to work for everything you have, and you will have nothing given to you without working for it. There is no balance of yin and yang in that - and therefore no God in it.

The foundation of a belief in God is that there is an unseen force that is benevolent and loving, and more powerful than yourself. Men that are taught not to feel their feelings/ be "tough" often have a very hard time with this as well, for their is a link between feeling your feelings and feeling God's love - the God-force within oneself.

My take on the synastry and what your possible karmic duties may be:

His Chiron being in Aries on the cusp of his 4th/5th shows that he had a problem in feeling he was able to assert himself, and be an individual while forming his sense of self in childhood.

He also has "the Sag/Cap" combination that seems to pop up again and again with people I know that are very patriarchal inclined. I have a man that I'm tied up in a karmic situation with that is very much inclined the same. He wants to be seen as the "head of the household" at all costs - and idolizes and wants to replicate his own father. He cannot see how the way his father related to him was damaging - he just wants to replicate that sense of power and being respected and obeyed by others. He has Mars in Capricorn in the 4th house and Saturn in Sagittarius on the cusp of the 4th. Saturn disposits Mars.

I see that the fellow you are speaking of has a similar combination. Sun and Jupiter conjunct in Sag - this is often indicative of someone who wants to be seens as - whose ego is wrapped up in - being seen as "the answer man" - who thinks he is always right, and will lose power if he is ever seen as having made a mistake. Further supporting this, he has Mercury Rx in Sag. But being retrograde, he has some re-working of this to do. Sag also carries with it the higher/lower vibration of "higher learning"/ college, etc vs intuition. My guess is the man is almost entirely out of touch with his intuition, putting more value on intellectualism. Venus in Capricorn shows that he values a woman that is traditional and subservient. Venus in Capricorn is the archetype of the traditional homemaker, who keeps the house in perfect running order, and does all the housework, making the man her head. It is very hard to raise out of this vibration and into the higher vibration of Venus in Cap - which is a set of personal boundaries, and power that comes from respect for the body/Earth as the Divine Feminine.

Very good point about his Sag/Cap planets being in Cancer's natural home. Cancer/4th house has to do with the "mass consciousness", so he is here to break out of some major controlling mindsets that society considers normal, because "that's the way it's always been done".

You have Sun/Saturn conjunct in Taurus/7th. This can show someone who is taught to be materially dependent on a man - but you may be doing the exact opposite. It can also show lessons around oversensualism, and feeling that a man "owns" you. It also shows a lesson to learn healthy sexual relationships with others. One needs to overcome any tendency to feel that sex and material provision are linked. This conjunction of yours is inconjunct her Mercury. These two do not get along at all.

The karmic thing seems to be that you two are supposed to be friends/ learn good communication skills together. A sexual relationship absent from good communication would only further your bad karma. Supporting this:
His North Node is conjunct your Mars in Aquarius in the 3rd house. His North Node is in his 5th house of the inner child. He has Mars in Pisces is conjunct your IC exactly, and also within orb of conjunction to your Moon in Pisces in the 3rd. This tells me that he should be able to see you as someone who is his true friend, and concerned about him. He needs someone who will listen to him, as he was probably not listened to as a child. Your sympathetic Moon in Pisces can be this for him. Mars in Aquarius is also detached, values independence, and will give him his sense of independence and equality, which is something he was probably lacking in as well.

His Mars in Pisces conjunct your IC shows that he needs to see you as a comforting place where he can find rest - and also that he may open up some of your own childhood wounds for healing. You can bring out the feminine side of him, and that will help him open up to equality. Of course, this is what is possible - IF you both are willing to work on making it happen. But someone has to go first.

Also, I think these may be the issues pointed out by the transiting stellium in Aquarius squaring your Sun/Saturn in Taurus in the 7th. The transiting stellium seems to be going over your North Node in Aquarius in the 3rd.

Hope that helps a little,

FL

EJ53 said:

I agree with all you say on the synastry, A50......except G's Chiron seems to be "4th house conjunct 5th cusp".

EJ

Click to expand...

Now you know I use Equal house and not the default placidus honn....

Sorry, my mind always converts back to what makes sense to me

Word, Freedomlover.

I´m speachless. Ugh what a mess we are in. You describe him and his stuff so well. Right now he´s stuck, I guess.

He thinks of women only as the venus/cap description you made. He is soon 40 but has never met anyone like me. I have learned to love my self more so I know I´m COOL. I`m like pussycat dolls song I don´t need a man. And also intellectual, read many books, write good stories etc etc. He thinks if a woman is talented she must be crazy, he really says she then must have serious psychological problems.

And this all reminds me of my cap little brother whom I´ve broken up with since he wanted to be my father....

I´m working with my natal issues, the sun-saturn-jupiter-neptune thing, and the mentioned stellium transit to these planets. The man lost his job, began to drink and went into a horrible relation with some ex (who fits the role). God knows if we ever meet again.

Now do we have karmic issues here

you might post a composite chart as you are inquiring about a relationship.

rahu

Nope. I am actually only interested in the karma. I do not want to drown in the relationship.´