Why are the most 'spiritual' countries/people worse off

retinoid

Well-known member
It always is weird for me to see people that are very spiritual or do magic are poor. Very few very rich and successful people seem to delve into such practices. Same with countries-the poor and destitute countries are more spiritual/religious/etc. Haiti is very Vodou centric which is supposedly powerful yet it is the poorest country in the western hemisphere. And most atheist countries are the happiest and best off. Why is this? To be successful and happy do you need a dash of spirituality and a lot of logic/material leanings?
 

StillOne

Well-known member
IMO, Most spiritual people/nations aren't concerned with materialism as their focus is... spiritual enlightenment. As a result they don't desire to accumulate wealth which in this materialistic society can make them weak since they can't protect themselves or their resources very well... especially from materialistic aggressive nations or in the case of natural disasters.

I'm not sure if I'd say more contemporary materialistic societies are happier, per say. As, modern materialism seems to bring quite a bit of unrest and unhappiness with it. Also, capitalism can bring additional disease in many forms with it (stress, pollution, artificial hormones in foods, etc.)

I also think "to be successful" differs greatly amongst people. Some people consider being successful with having lots of money or things. Whereas, others value simplicity which provides tranquility and freedom.

Seems anyway you slice it, one of the main components of living is learning about suffering...

I do think, or hope, that there will be more of a middle path in the future.
 
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EdgesOnCircles

Well-known member
I agree with StillOne that the definition of "success" varies from person to person and material wealth may not be a factor. Reminds me of the poem, Richard Cory by Edwin Arlington Robinson - the people looked up to Cory because they thought he was everything that defines a successful man, but Cory returns home one night and puts "a bullet in his head"...not a very happy man do you think?

I've also heard people envy others with a spiritual/religious background because they feel like something is missing in their life. IMO spirituality/religion can bring a little more to the table - a purpose other than going to work at 8 in the morning and coming home at 5-6 PM to do it all over again. That's a part of life obviously - to make ends meet and take care of your progeny...but sometimes it's nice to fall back on a divine concept when the water gets rough. It's all a part of a larger plan and things will turn out the way they were meant to be...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Some countries focus on GDP,Gross Domestic Product.
Others GDH,Gross Domestic Happiness.

J.R.

That would be the mystical kingdom of Bhutan JerryRR where
environmental concerns and spiritual health take precedence over rampant capitalism - (source of info at) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXJwNSkdTH0

The King of Bhutan said "We're not interested in Gross National Product, we're interested in Gross National Happiness!" ....and what the King says goes! :smile:
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Yes but the happiest nations (Scandinavian countries) are also the least religious. I agree with a middle ground, but WHY, if you are spiritual, would you not be taken care of better materially? What is the point of spirituality? What is the point of living in a material world if you don't excel and evolve it? Is the point just to meditate or pray all day? Doubt it.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Who decided the happiest nations are the Scandinavian countries and why? :smile:

Lots of different studies use different parameters yet they always come out on top.

Just common sense. More religion usually correlates to a less evolved populace/country/etc. Ever heard of the dark ages? Too much religion...
 
Don't Finland and Denmark come out on top of suicide rates? I do admire Scandinavian systems, though


Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden do all top the US and uk for suicide.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Right-I also think we need to make a differentiation between formalized religion (religious organizaions) and individual levels of spirituality, in such a discussion as this one.
 

Carris

Well-known member
"What is the point of spirituality? What is the point of living in a material world if you don't excel and evolve it? Is the point just to meditate or pray all day?"

All these dualities and extremes are necessary on earth because we souls are here to learn and grow. Earth is a school for us souls. We need to experience every single state of being - from a very materialistic life to a very spiritual life - we need to see the sharp contrasts and all the in-between shades of grey - so that we can learn to appreciate and value the wisdom of oneness.

This quote explains it:

“Earth is a school for learning duality and understanding “opposites,” which helps you fast track your spiritual growth. Reincarnation and freewill are the tools for this spiritual growth. For every fantastic lifetime of love, joy, and happiness, there has been an equally strong and negative emotional experience of devastation, hardship, pain, and suffering.

There are no such things as hell, the devil or satan; these are false manmade beliefs, which were created for explaining the unloving attributes of pain, suffering, chaos, and destruction created by early civilizations (infant souls). As souls, each one of you has had many different lifetimes on Earth. Before each incarnational cycle, you decide what lessons you want to learn, the basic requirements for your life and the type of polarized experiences you want to explore on Earth.

Reincarnation helps you master your lessons in duality. You have killed and been killed by others; you have been male and female, including mother, father, son, uncle, grandmother etc. You have been a soldier, warrior, villain, farmer, and artist. You have experienced suffering, disease, illness, poverty, pain, joy, love, freedom, and fear. To learn from all the possible lessons of duality that has been possible on Earth, you have experienced every different human aspect available on the planet. Today, many souls have now come to the end of their study of duality. Many of you have nothing more left to learn on Earth."
 
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Anachiel

Well-known member
Your question kind of makes me laugh (in a good way) because you are assuming they are "worse off". In reality, a lot of "them" look at "us" and shake their heads or think we are the poor, ignorant and immature lot.
 

StillOne

Well-known member
Yes but the happiest nations (Scandinavian countries) are also the least religious. I agree with a middle ground, but WHY, if you are spiritual, would you not be taken care of better materially? What is the point of spirituality? What is the point of living in a material world if you don't excel and evolve it? Is the point just to meditate or pray all day? Doubt it.
Indeed, many of the Scandinavian countries top the list of happiest nations. However, they don't say if that's due to being less religious...? Maybe their happiness is due to having 6-8 weeks of vacation a year or that their health care is paid for.

However, have you noticed that as soon as anyone from one of these countries starts making a lot of money (being successful?) they want to move some else. The personal tax rate is extremely high.

To me the point of spirituality is to gain grounding in a belief that provides inner strength, a sense of belonging and understanding. It is something that evolves our relationship with the world and universe.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Your question kind of makes me laugh (in a good way) because you are assuming they are "worse off". In reality, a lot of "them" look at "us" and shake their heads or think we are the poor, ignorant and immature lot.

Yes but they still usually flee to come to the immature and ignorant and poor countries. I am not saying materialism is a BETTER way to be, I am asking why are spiritual/religious countries the ones that are always worse off (suffering famine, plagues, inability to deal with natural disasters)?
 

retinoid

Well-known member
"What is the point of spirituality? What is the point of living in a material world if you don't excel and evolve it? Is the point just to meditate or pray all day?"

All these dualities and extremes are necessary on earth because we souls are here to learn and grow. Earth is a school for us souls. We need to experience every single state of being - from a very materialistic life to a very spiritual life - we need to see the sharp contrasts and all the in-between shades of grey - so that we can learn to appreciate and value the wisdom of oneness.

This quote explains it:

“Earth is a school for learning duality and understanding “opposites,” which helps you fast track your spiritual growth. Reincarnation and freewill are the tools for this spiritual growth. For every fantastic lifetime of love, joy, and happiness, there has been an equally strong and negative emotional experience of devastation, hardship, pain, and suffering.

There are no such things as hell, the devil or satan; these are false manmade beliefs, which were created for explaining the unloving attributes of pain, suffering, chaos, and destruction created by early civilizations (infant souls). As souls, each one of you has had many different lifetimes on Earth. Before each incarnational cycle, you decide what lessons you want to learn, the basic requirements for your life and the type of polarized experiences you want to explore on Earth.

Reincarnation helps you master your lessons in duality. You have killed and been killed by others; you have been male and female, including mother, father, son, uncle, grandmother etc. You have been a soldier, warrior, villain, farmer, and artist. You have experienced suffering, disease, illness, poverty, pain, joy, love, freedom, and fear. To learn from all the possible lessons of duality that has been possible on Earth, you have experienced every different human aspect available on the planet. Today, many souls have now come to the end of their study of duality. Many of you have nothing more left to learn on Earth."

Thanks I believe this. I think the more evolved you are the more balanced you become in your approach to materialism and spirituality. Since you lived both extremes already!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am not saying materialism is a BETTER way to be, I am asking why are spiritual/religious countries the ones that are always worse off (suffering famine..................?
FAMINE

ONE of the major contributory causes of famine in under developed countries (apart from obvious weather considerations) is the grossly unfair trade price system of the 'World Market' which, when combined with crippling 'debt repayments' - results in a lack of ability to put investment in food provision for the home country. Famine stricken nations continue nevertheless to export to the west... as do War afflicted nations. War is of course another major non-weather related cause of famine.

It appears that western economic wealth is dependent on obtaining raw materials for a ridiculously low price from 'under developed nations'. Tea, coffee, cocoa are harvested by slave labour for monthly wages that are less than the price of a cup of tea/coffee/chocolate in the west so that millionaire/billionaire food magnates then profit from the labour of billions of individuals living in economic slavery in 'spiritual' underdeveloped nations.

'spiritual' countries gain comfort from being spiritual :smile:
 
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