RaptInReverie
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Planetary Magick
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RaptInReverie
Well-known member
Nice! I'm into mentalizing and reading about the law of attraction right now, so I'm looking for similar kinds of knowledge. I'll wait for your next post, thanks a lot.
You're definitely in the right place then. As above, so below. Good luck manifesting your desires.
Moog
Well-known member
Are you sure...
Just kidding you. Interesting article.
I do use the planetary hours to time stuff I do.
RaptInReverie
Well-known member
Very interesting. Could you give an example of how you might "invoke" this magick? A little step-by-step of sorts?
There are various ways of doing it.
StillOne
Well-known member
Ok, care to share one example of how and for what purpose you, personally, might invoke/use it or how you've used it in the past? Maybe some detail of what it entails?
Mark
Well-known member
RaptInReverie: It is true that magic is real, but I think you haven't gotten deep enough to see the Truth of human nature. What you call "base human nature" is what I would call "uncontrolled, animalistic expression of desire." Take note that there are many humans that don't act this way. Mars makes a good starting point. I can point out an individual with strong Mars/Aries influences who has a terrible temper. I can also point out an individual with strong Mars/Aries influences who has great control over their temper. Therefore, I must assert that behaviour is not a reflection of the astrological forces at work. Behaviour is a manifestation of an individual's reaction to all forces perceived. The extreme variation in behaviours under the same influences trips up a lot of studying astrologers, unsure of how to interpret it.
The bottom line is the fact that people choose their behaviour. There are many examples of people who choose to not regulate their own behaviour, but that is still a choice of how to behave. As is obvious in the application of magic, free will is stronger than any other force of nature. You can choose to be "aggressive, competitive, and sexual" or you can choose any other way to be. Truly, is this not magic? If someone wants to say that this "aggressive, competitive, and sexual" way of being is a natural default, then I must say that it is akin to the blubbered, slurred expressions of a small child who simply hasn't learned to control himself yet. My main point is that people are supposed to grow to become better than wild animals.
I would also like to point out that we usually misunderstand what we are really seeing in a chart. The astrological forces are living and dynamic forces within an individual that ebb and flow in various combinations throughout life, depending on circumstance and choice. Where a planet was at the moment of your first breath can tell you about your starting point, but it can't tell you where you will be 30 years into the journey. Once you've left the starting point, the real astrological forces that are internal to you will change to compliment your current self. The natal chart is just a still picture.
The bottom line is the fact that people choose their behaviour. There are many examples of people who choose to not regulate their own behaviour, but that is still a choice of how to behave. As is obvious in the application of magic, free will is stronger than any other force of nature. You can choose to be "aggressive, competitive, and sexual" or you can choose any other way to be. Truly, is this not magic? If someone wants to say that this "aggressive, competitive, and sexual" way of being is a natural default, then I must say that it is akin to the blubbered, slurred expressions of a small child who simply hasn't learned to control himself yet. My main point is that people are supposed to grow to become better than wild animals.
I would also like to point out that we usually misunderstand what we are really seeing in a chart. The astrological forces are living and dynamic forces within an individual that ebb and flow in various combinations throughout life, depending on circumstance and choice. Where a planet was at the moment of your first breath can tell you about your starting point, but it can't tell you where you will be 30 years into the journey. Once you've left the starting point, the real astrological forces that are internal to you will change to compliment your current self. The natal chart is just a still picture.
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divine g
Banned
Mark, you say,
Now, if they're not controlling themselves, who/what is? I wish I could find and post pics of me as a child, where you can clearly see Mars and Saturn in control of my appearance. From before 1 year of age, I would always make a mean, angry, snarling face at the camera when someone took a pic, and my family found it hilarious! What was controlling my facial expression? Well, Mars and Saturn were Rising when I was born, but I didn't know that! Neither did my parents. It was just the way the universe made me. (And while Mars and Saturn energies are within in me, I have NO control, absolutely ZERO control over the course of the actual planets in the sky, and how they affect the earth I'm standing on).
While I understand your general view on controlling of self, and even getting into the science of transmutation, alchemy, and turning base metal of self into refined gold, I think this science has for the most part been set apart for the chosen few, if you catch my drift. Controlling yourself is easier said than done. (Kind of like that movie where Will Ferrell is thrown into the backseat of a car with a wild cougar, and his father says, "Control your heartrate!") Now I ask, Mark, if you were in that situation, could you do the same? All I 'm saying is, there are some things that are controllable, and somethings that aren't.
Also RIR, what do you think of evoking the energies of the sign that's rising? Like say, I'm a writer, with writer's block, would it work to wait until, say Gemini or Virgo was Rising? Or maybe on the Midheaven?I also thought of Mercury being used as a great initial energy to get something started, as the act of writing something down on paper, or even speaking it into the ethers, significantly increases chances of success.
Edit: "free will is stronger than any other force of nature". --Mark, are u sure aobut that? I'm all for exercising will power, and use it all the time, but free will is nothing against a force of nature like a hurricane or earthquake. At that point, you're dealing with God's will, and your free will means nothing, as you are the created, and He is the Creator.
It's funny you should use the example of a child, bc that's the best example of untainted, pure energy. A child is just being themselves. They have their own natural way of being, which changes over time through the influence of adults primarily. The ability of humans to control themselves 100% , truly, is a rare thing, don't you think? How many adults continue to smoke, drink, fornicate, eat too much, even though they know it's bad? Yes, theoretically, as adults they should be able to control their urges, but this is a power that evades most "humans".
Now, if they're not controlling themselves, who/what is? I wish I could find and post pics of me as a child, where you can clearly see Mars and Saturn in control of my appearance. From before 1 year of age, I would always make a mean, angry, snarling face at the camera when someone took a pic, and my family found it hilarious! What was controlling my facial expression? Well, Mars and Saturn were Rising when I was born, but I didn't know that! Neither did my parents. It was just the way the universe made me. (And while Mars and Saturn energies are within in me, I have NO control, absolutely ZERO control over the course of the actual planets in the sky, and how they affect the earth I'm standing on).
While I understand your general view on controlling of self, and even getting into the science of transmutation, alchemy, and turning base metal of self into refined gold, I think this science has for the most part been set apart for the chosen few, if you catch my drift. Controlling yourself is easier said than done. (Kind of like that movie where Will Ferrell is thrown into the backseat of a car with a wild cougar, and his father says, "Control your heartrate!") Now I ask, Mark, if you were in that situation, could you do the same? All I 'm saying is, there are some things that are controllable, and somethings that aren't.
Also RIR, what do you think of evoking the energies of the sign that's rising? Like say, I'm a writer, with writer's block, would it work to wait until, say Gemini or Virgo was Rising? Or maybe on the Midheaven?I also thought of Mercury being used as a great initial energy to get something started, as the act of writing something down on paper, or even speaking it into the ethers, significantly increases chances of success.
Edit: "free will is stronger than any other force of nature". --Mark, are u sure aobut that? I'm all for exercising will power, and use it all the time, but free will is nothing against a force of nature like a hurricane or earthquake. At that point, you're dealing with God's will, and your free will means nothing, as you are the created, and He is the Creator.
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RaptInReverie
Well-known member
As far as timing goes, the planetary hours will suffice. For example, consecrating a talisman to aid someone in writing a novel on the day and in the hour of Mercury is ideal. Direct and Rx motion should be taken into consideration as well, although in this case I don't think a Merc. Rx would cause too big of a problem for an author writing a novel. Those with Gemini or Virgo Sun, Ascendant, or MC in their natal chart (or just a strong Mercury) may, in my opinion, have better results working with Mercury in general. They are by nature more predisposed to its energy anyway.
Because I have Virgo Sun, Virgo and Mercury Rising, and Gemini MC, I have an affinity for working with Mercurial energy.
Many of the planetary energies are initiators, but they are somewhat limited to certain areas in which they do it best.
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::Just peeking in to this thread::
StillOne, I know this question was not addressed to me but, I thought I would briefly chime in. My understanding is that the major part of energizing a planetary talisman is in the appropriate time of its making. It becomes a living entity in and of itself. Intention and timing are most of the process. Of course, the materials the talisman is made from are thought to align the talisman even moreso with a particular planet over another one.
Generally, in consecrating or charging a talisman for use (or for you), the talisman is symbolically blessed with each of the elements, or cleansed and donned for the first time or annointed with an appropriate planetary substance and then worn for the first time; all this in alignment with the said planet's special day/hour/time.
It is a subject that is as extensive as astrology its self.
You see more of this type of thing being used in Vedic astrology where certain yantras, stones (talismans) are used to enhance or divert specific planetary energies seen in the birth chart or planetary periods one is temporarily experiencing.
Blessings,
Anachiel
StillOne
Well-known member
Very very interesting. I'm not very familiar with Vedic astrology at all. Being a newbie, I'm also uninitiated in the use of talismans, stones, crystals etc. Especially for the use with planetary energies. I like. Thanks for the brief education.
RaptInReverie
Well-known member
Anachiel and StillOne,
This is actually more prevalent in Western magick, though it is not always labeled "planetary magick". So, considering that, one does not need to be familiar with Vedic astrology. Any understanding of astrology will suffice, in my opinion.
This is actually more prevalent in Western magick, though it is not always labeled "planetary magick". So, considering that, one does not need to be familiar with Vedic astrology. Any understanding of astrology will suffice, in my opinion.
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Mark
Well-known member
divine g said:
A child is his or her uncontrolled self. Isn't there a reason that we don't let children drive, vote, or buy weapons? A cow doesn't have to learn how to be a good cow. A whale doesn't have to learn how to be a good whale. For a man to become a good man, however, requires learning because learning is a natural expression of mankind. I could get absolutely Aristotelian and talk about the natural good for man and what distinguishes man from the animals, but that has been said well enough by Aristotle.
Smoking isn't good nor bad. Drinking (alcohol) isn't good nor bad. Sex isn't good nor bad. Good/bad and right/wrong are moral judgments. Some hypocrites believe something is wrong and do it anyway, but this is a sign of weakness, not something that is natural. If you believe shooting someone in the face is wrong, don't do it. It's that simple. When you make things more complicated than that, that's when you know you're looking for a way around your own philosophy.
divine g said:
You are a living system. That means that something is always in control of your operations. It's either going to be you or someone/thing else. Which do you choose? As a child, you can't choose. As an adult, you must choose or the choice will be dictated to you. So, what controlled your facial expressions as a child? Probably you. Why would you think a child has no personality just because he can't tell you that he has one?
While you may have no control over the course of the planets through the sky, why does that matter? You aren't in the sky! Do you honestly believe that a planet has more control over your decisions than you do? Maybe planets have an influence, but the freedom to control expression is yours. Do you choose the words that come from your mouth or is a planet doing that talking? Where is the line?
divine g said:
Self control is not a science. It cannot be a science because it is not a process. So many people make this mistake. Why would you make a 21-step plan for picking up a cup of coffee and taking a sip? You could make it that complicated, but why don't you just pick it up and sip? As Einstein said, "Make everything as simple as possible and no simpler." Could I control my heart rate while sitting next to a wild cougar? Why, yes, actually, I could. It would be a bit more difficult if I were being mauled by a cougar, but as long as I don't need an elevated heart rate for movement, then I could keep it down. Can't you cause your heart to speed up or slow down through mental instruction? I can and there are a great many other who can. The ability to control heart rate is actually quite common. It's a fun trick to play on your doctor.
divine g said:
Did Jesus fear the storm, or did He walk on the water anyway? Beside the scripture references, I felt quite comfortable in stating that free will is more powerful than any other force of nature because we are talking about magic. If you accept that magic is real, then free will must trump some things most people would think "untrumpable."
How can something that is against the Will of God actually happen? I say it can't. Rape occurs in this world everyday, so is that in the Will of God? Most would see this as a contradiction, but I say yes. The application of the Will of God in your life is partially dependent upon your will. That is the very reason that what you choose is important. God gave you this free will and the act of using it against others is abusing the gift of godhood given to us.
Jesus said, "Know ye not that ye are gods?" Every person has been given the gift of choosing how to apply the Will of God to build their own lives. When you effect the lives of others, your application of that Holy Will is even more important. The truly scary thing is how much control we have of such a beautiful gift and what we're willing to do with it.
RaptInReverie
Well-known member
Mark, I honestly don't even know where to begin discussing this with you. You're introducing way too many concepts, many of which have nothing to do with this thread, and you're using contradictory sources to support your claims. Furthermore, if you doubt the effects of the planetary energies, why discuss them in an astrological forum amongst others who do not? I suggest you address me with specific quotes from my original post if you want a response from me.
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divine g
Banned
There is no rebuttal against my argument, Mark. At all. There is absolutely no argument, among any intelligent, logical human being. EVERYONE knows that you can NOT stop a hurricane from coming your way, if it is God's will. You cannot will an earthquake from coming unexpectedly, nor can your measly free will stop a tornado from destroying your town, if that is God's will.
Whatever your belief system is, is your business. As RIR is suggesting above, your stance is a bit anti-thetical to the whole thesis of astrology. And you also are reminding me of a certain other member here, who felt the need to argue over the most basic principles of astrology. The main principle is, planets are bigger than us, and while we are not total slaves to their influence on the planet, they are usually much more powerful than us. As students of astrology, we try and learn the ways of the planets, and how to work with their energy, or find ways to get around it. If you want to be that nutcase standing up to a force of nature like a Tsunami wave, or a hurricane, thinking your free will will stop it, go right ahead. Hopefully, that will put an end to your silly little arguments you're posting on this thread.
Now getting back to the topic of the thread, it is fitting to use examples of forces of nature with planetary energies, as they are usually much more powerful than us (however much in denial some of us may be in). Planetary magick would be a way of harnessing those energies for our benefit, much like solar powered vehicles, electricity, etc. Although I'm not too familiar with it, Im willing to learn more, bc like they say, "Whatever Works".
Whatever your belief system is, is your business. As RIR is suggesting above, your stance is a bit anti-thetical to the whole thesis of astrology. And you also are reminding me of a certain other member here, who felt the need to argue over the most basic principles of astrology. The main principle is, planets are bigger than us, and while we are not total slaves to their influence on the planet, they are usually much more powerful than us. As students of astrology, we try and learn the ways of the planets, and how to work with their energy, or find ways to get around it. If you want to be that nutcase standing up to a force of nature like a Tsunami wave, or a hurricane, thinking your free will will stop it, go right ahead. Hopefully, that will put an end to your silly little arguments you're posting on this thread.
Now getting back to the topic of the thread, it is fitting to use examples of forces of nature with planetary energies, as they are usually much more powerful than us (however much in denial some of us may be in). Planetary magick would be a way of harnessing those energies for our benefit, much like solar powered vehicles, electricity, etc. Although I'm not too familiar with it, Im willing to learn more, bc like they say, "Whatever Works".
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RaptInReverie
Well-known member
I'm going to look for some good sites on planetary magick for those who are interested in learning more. I understand that my description was a bit scanty for such a curious audience; however, as Anachiel stated above, magick is an extensive subject. It is nothing I can explain in detail here.
Chronos XP Software
Planetary Correspondences
The Art & Practice of Talismanic Magic
Timinghttp://www.essene.com/Mysticism/Kabbalah.html
Chronos XP Software
Planetary Correspondences
The Art & Practice of Talismanic Magic
Timinghttp://www.essene.com/Mysticism/Kabbalah.html
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Mark
Well-known member
RaptInReverie: My first post in this thread was directed specifically to you because you are the original poster. If you want to respond to me, respond to the post that was directed to you. Don't wait until I've started conversing with someone else to say that I'm introducing too much. I also notice that you assume yourself to be the authority on this subject. Perhaps I would have impressed you more if I had put an unnecessary "k" in the word "magic?" Further, if you had actually read my post, you would have known that I never doubted magic nor the use of planets in magic. I said at the start that such things can work. Even further, I'm here to help you on my terms. If you want someone to jump through hoops for you, then you're talking to the wrong person. I will leave you to your own, if that is what you wish.
divine g: I rebutted a number of your points. Which one did I miss? You seem to be making some rather wild claims about what "everyone knows." Even if everyone did "know" something, everyone can be wrong all at the same time. Truth is Truth and perception is perception. I really don't see how my previous points are antithetical to all of astrology. In fact, they are the foundation of my own view of astrology. Are you saying that the study of astrology is meaningless if the planets don't control you? Also, I don't see what makes my arguments "silly" nor "little." You're getting quite personal, divine g. I'm saying that there are ways to overwhelm or direct planetary influences which seems to be the exact same thing that you are arguing with "planetary magic." I'm just using different words. If you are truly intent on being subject to Saturn's poundings, then I wish you luck and fun. I think I would rather talk it over with Saturn. As far as Saturn is concerned, an enemy and a slave are the same thing.
General Address: If you would like me to take my 12 years of experience studying occultism and practicing magic elsewhere, then that is what I shall do. I hope none of you hurt yourselves too badly with this stuff. Some studies are "safer" than others... especially when you plan on giving control of yourself to a planet!
To Keep You Safe: Always remember that every open door can be traveled in two directions. When you touch a person, that person touches you. When you touch a planet, that planet touches you. Whatever you "touch" will "stick" to you, whether you want it or not. So, be very careful of what intentions you build because those are what will "stick."
divine g: I rebutted a number of your points. Which one did I miss? You seem to be making some rather wild claims about what "everyone knows." Even if everyone did "know" something, everyone can be wrong all at the same time. Truth is Truth and perception is perception. I really don't see how my previous points are antithetical to all of astrology. In fact, they are the foundation of my own view of astrology. Are you saying that the study of astrology is meaningless if the planets don't control you? Also, I don't see what makes my arguments "silly" nor "little." You're getting quite personal, divine g. I'm saying that there are ways to overwhelm or direct planetary influences which seems to be the exact same thing that you are arguing with "planetary magic." I'm just using different words. If you are truly intent on being subject to Saturn's poundings, then I wish you luck and fun. I think I would rather talk it over with Saturn. As far as Saturn is concerned, an enemy and a slave are the same thing.
General Address: If you would like me to take my 12 years of experience studying occultism and practicing magic elsewhere, then that is what I shall do. I hope none of you hurt yourselves too badly with this stuff. Some studies are "safer" than others... especially when you plan on giving control of yourself to a planet!
To Keep You Safe: Always remember that every open door can be traveled in two directions. When you touch a person, that person touches you. When you touch a planet, that planet touches you. Whatever you "touch" will "stick" to you, whether you want it or not. So, be very careful of what intentions you build because those are what will "stick."
RaptInReverie
Well-known member
I didn’t respond to your first comment, Mark, because in it you made several unsuccessful attempts to dispute what I’d written. It was my hope that you would realize this on your own before I or another member had to tell you. Your approach would have been better had you taken advantage of the 'quote' feature; however, I will go ahead and dissect your argument as you requested.
Right out of the gate you began insulting me (not a problem, though, I'm not easily offended). Combat (defense), competition (survival), and reproduction (sex) are primitive behaviors that preserve a species. Humanity, no matter how "evolved", will always carry these behaviors. We still exhibit them today, although oft times in more subtle ways. I believe one current scientific term for it is the Reptilian Brain.
This isn't me just making up stuff. Now, we may disagree over whether or not Mars represents this behavior, but we certainly can not deny that this behavior exists.
I agree. Not all people exhibit these behaviors; however, it does not mean that it is not in their nature. You can domesticate a wild species, but that does not mean that they will not still carry residual elements of their natural behavior.
I never stated that individuals with strong Mars/Aries placements in their chart could never learn to control their anger, only that they'd likely be more predisposed to it or other characteristics attributed to Mars. Like I said, if you doubt the veracity of astrology, why discuss it here?
People are influenced by forces that they don't/can't perceive every day. Most people have no idea why they do the things they do. Astrologers aren't perfect, and many times their interpretations are incorrect. That doesn't mean we aren't influenced by the planets, only that astrologers aren't 100% sure how yet.
Free Will (Free Agency) and Magical/True Will (Thelema) are two different concepts.
Science and history say so. Argue with them, not me. Humans: part animal, part divine. Genetically we are similar to other mammalian lifeforms, but our souls are what differentiate us from them.
Again, if you doubt the influence of the celestial bodies upon the earth, then don't expect your views to sit well amongst a group of astrologers.
Right out of the gate you began insulting me (not a problem, though, I'm not easily offended). Combat (defense), competition (survival), and reproduction (sex) are primitive behaviors that preserve a species. Humanity, no matter how "evolved", will always carry these behaviors. We still exhibit them today, although oft times in more subtle ways. I believe one current scientific term for it is the Reptilian Brain.
This isn't me just making up stuff. Now, we may disagree over whether or not Mars represents this behavior, but we certainly can not deny that this behavior exists.
I agree. Not all people exhibit these behaviors; however, it does not mean that it is not in their nature. You can domesticate a wild species, but that does not mean that they will not still carry residual elements of their natural behavior.
I never stated that individuals with strong Mars/Aries placements in their chart could never learn to control their anger, only that they'd likely be more predisposed to it or other characteristics attributed to Mars. Like I said, if you doubt the veracity of astrology, why discuss it here?
People are influenced by forces that they don't/can't perceive every day. Most people have no idea why they do the things they do. Astrologers aren't perfect, and many times their interpretations are incorrect. That doesn't mean we aren't influenced by the planets, only that astrologers aren't 100% sure how yet.
Free Will (Free Agency) and Magical/True Will (Thelema) are two different concepts.
Science and history say so. Argue with them, not me. Humans: part animal, part divine. Genetically we are similar to other mammalian lifeforms, but our souls are what differentiate us from them.
Again, if you doubt the influence of the celestial bodies upon the earth, then don't expect your views to sit well amongst a group of astrologers.