So, were we all wrong? In the charts during the Mercury Rx?
- Thread starter AquariusT
- Start date
lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
AquT-A planet being retrograde does not invalidate the chart.
You have already asked this question too many times.In horary this is actually a breach of the rules.
Asking in the via combusta period is a bad idea.William Lilly considered it as being a stricture against reading the chart.
The first chart *what is the outcome* covers it.
Sorry-I know you are hurting, but horary only works if the rules are followed.
Cheers
Lilly
You have already asked this question too many times.In horary this is actually a breach of the rules.
Asking in the via combusta period is a bad idea.William Lilly considered it as being a stricture against reading the chart.
The first chart *what is the outcome* covers it.
Sorry-I know you are hurting, but horary only works if the rules are followed.
Cheers
Lilly
The situation asked about is not over yet; further, outside influences of an almost mundane nature have been active which might have blocked (delayed) the more near term fulfillment of those charts.
I'll tell you something: estimating close time periods for something to occur is very difficult, not just in horary but in all other forms of divination as well. In Tarot, for example (which I also use, and have since 1964), I can honestly say that in my divinations relating to the nature of an event or situation, I have NEVER been proven wrong (and I'm not bragging in saying this, nor do I claim to be any kind of Tarot "master", not by a long shot) HOWEVER, when (in the past) I attempted to divine the TIME when something was going to develop or occur, my results were poor-no better than chance! The divined event ALWAYS happened, and ALWAYS under the circumstances shown by the cards, but the TIME frame, never was reliable: for the past 20 years I exclude any attempt to divine the time element in Tarot.
I think we have better resources regarding time divination in horary: however, time is a tricky issue, to say the least: the Cosmos concept of time, is not necessarily Man's concept...
I'll tell you something: estimating close time periods for something to occur is very difficult, not just in horary but in all other forms of divination as well. In Tarot, for example (which I also use, and have since 1964), I can honestly say that in my divinations relating to the nature of an event or situation, I have NEVER been proven wrong (and I'm not bragging in saying this, nor do I claim to be any kind of Tarot "master", not by a long shot) HOWEVER, when (in the past) I attempted to divine the TIME when something was going to develop or occur, my results were poor-no better than chance! The divined event ALWAYS happened, and ALWAYS under the circumstances shown by the cards, but the TIME frame, never was reliable: for the past 20 years I exclude any attempt to divine the time element in Tarot.
I think we have better resources regarding time divination in horary: however, time is a tricky issue, to say the least: the Cosmos concept of time, is not necessarily Man's concept...
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lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
AquT, I personally don't know of any astrologers who decline to read a chart with a retrograde planet.Most of the astrology books I have read give interpretations for what it means when a planet is retrograde...
I don't think you can discount the charts we have already delineated for you.
However, asking the same question over and over, even if worded slightly differently, will yield inaccurate results-as I've pointed out to you already.
Stick to the FIRST chart.That's the chart that holds the answers.
In that chart, his ruler and yours made no aspect and your ruler was approaching the h4 cusp of endings...The moon applied to an opposition with his ruler.I think that chart gave a *no* answer, despite his ruler being retrograde and combust the sun, ruler of yr h9-legal activities.
I agree with what Starlink wrote:
Here, the end of the matter is Mars in the 8th house which will receive both squares. I dont like that very much. Last aspect of the Moon will be a sextile to Saturn, a malific, so that also does not look too happy, notwithstanding the sextile.
When I look at the end of the marriage house, (4th of the 7th), then Venus rules it and Venus is in a bad house (6th) and in fall. Venus has passed the trine to Saturn (which could show that his love for your has passed.( Venus rules his 5th) and will sextile Uranus, pointing towards a sudden separation.
Cheers
Lilly
I don't think you can discount the charts we have already delineated for you.
However, asking the same question over and over, even if worded slightly differently, will yield inaccurate results-as I've pointed out to you already.
Stick to the FIRST chart.That's the chart that holds the answers.
In that chart, his ruler and yours made no aspect and your ruler was approaching the h4 cusp of endings...The moon applied to an opposition with his ruler.I think that chart gave a *no* answer, despite his ruler being retrograde and combust the sun, ruler of yr h9-legal activities.
I agree with what Starlink wrote:
Here, the end of the matter is Mars in the 8th house which will receive both squares. I dont like that very much. Last aspect of the Moon will be a sextile to Saturn, a malific, so that also does not look too happy, notwithstanding the sextile.
When I look at the end of the marriage house, (4th of the 7th), then Venus rules it and Venus is in a bad house (6th) and in fall. Venus has passed the trine to Saturn (which could show that his love for your has passed.( Venus rules his 5th) and will sextile Uranus, pointing towards a sudden separation.
Cheers
Lilly
maybe all the differing opinions and information you received actually point to the fact Mercury was retrograde during the time you asked the question hence the confusion you now feel and the conflicting opinions over this matter. I will agree with Dr. Farr timing is tough with any of the oracles. In astrology (regular-not horary) I will compare many charts to arrive at an answer. It is time consuming and there is a trial and error element involved you have to keep track of events in your own charts as well as others to start to accurately predict the future. I do believe its possible. As I have done this. Looking to the past definitely can help you "see the future". I still believe that decisions made on a Mercury Rx will be changed at a later date. I don't believe they are final. As I think beginning things on a Merc Rx will not work out unless you have started it before and are re-doing it. I still don't know where the original post is and would be interested in looking at the chart.
Of course, the ultimate question is, "What is the future of my marriage?" All the rest of the questions are peripheral to this central issue. As I have mentioned in my post on the "when will he return home" question, I got a "yes" indication, but I also stated that this could mean a return home on a brief visit, just as well as a permanent return, and I could not read more than this in the testimonies (at least using my methods)
Here's a hint: check the stars, not as primary indicators, but to help clarify issues; any star with the ascendant or with the quesited sign degree, any star with the significators of the querent or the quesited, any star with the Moon (always important), or with the Part of Fortune or Dragon's Tail, will often provide added testimony which will frequently help in clarifying the indications and materially aid in coming to a final delineation. Ideally, first check the star parallels of declination (constellationsofwords.com star list, ecliptic declination list)-these will be the strongest testimonies; secondly, check for longitudinal conjunction (same site, using the "by longitude" star list)
Here's a hint: check the stars, not as primary indicators, but to help clarify issues; any star with the ascendant or with the quesited sign degree, any star with the significators of the querent or the quesited, any star with the Moon (always important), or with the Part of Fortune or Dragon's Tail, will often provide added testimony which will frequently help in clarifying the indications and materially aid in coming to a final delineation. Ideally, first check the star parallels of declination (constellationsofwords.com star list, ecliptic declination list)-these will be the strongest testimonies; secondly, check for longitudinal conjunction (same site, using the "by longitude" star list)
Niplan
Banned
uhhh what? There are only rules as to HOW to read the chart not WHEN to cast one... Via combust does not invalidate the chart. you have to wait a few hours for the skys to change, but if its a no, it doesn't matter how many times you will ask, it will be no.
your signifigator being combust shows nothing more then "the querrant in great fear or distress" or a no depending on the chart.
and the "aphorisms" against when to read a chart are just cop-outs so you can avoid doing a chart you don't understand. Which could save a dark ages astrologer from being burned on the pyre alive.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10077&d=1272436107
I dunno, I don't see him returning. hes off in play land, where you can't see him, and something to do with the monies. I don't see any way to get jupiter and the moon, or gemini together None, not even via antisica or translation. Id say he wont be back.
Ive only found declination useful in astrometerology. its never proven sucessfull for me in horary.
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lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
For those who are confused about the malefic effects of the moon being in the via combusta, here's a few links:
http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Via_Combusta
And from skyscript:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/heritage/egyptians.html
In ancient techniques the Via Combusta is regarded as a dangerous section of the chart and the Moon so placed continues to be a warning for the horary astrologer to defer judgement.
And from Olivia's site:
http://freakyfortuneteller.com/chanah/?p=295
The concept of via combusta came about through this system. Mars and Saturn are considered the malefics (bad planets – look at the mythology of these two gods to understand why) in traditional astrology. Saturn is exalted in Libra, whilst Mars rules Scorpio under the traditional system. That’s part of it. The Sun and Moon are considered the most important planets, and the Sun is in its fall in Libra, while the Moon is in its fall in Scorpio.
In other words, the two primary planets of the zodiac, the Sun and Moon, are weak, while the two traditionally evil planets, Saturn and Mars, are strong in Libra-Scorpio. Hence – via combusta.
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/horary_astrology.htm
Moon in the Via Combusta: The last stricture is if the Moon is in the Via Combusta; 15 degrees of Libra to 15 degrees of Scorpio. Traditionally, this portion of the zodiac contained several malevolent fixed stars that debilitated a planet.
Seginus, at 17 Libra was associated with loss through friends and companies; disgrace and ruin. Foramen, a redish star at 22 Libra, was associated with peril.
The moon spends 2 and a half days a month in that part of the sky.
Lilly.
http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Via_Combusta
And from skyscript:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/heritage/egyptians.html
In ancient techniques the Via Combusta is regarded as a dangerous section of the chart and the Moon so placed continues to be a warning for the horary astrologer to defer judgement.
And from Olivia's site:
http://freakyfortuneteller.com/chanah/?p=295
The concept of via combusta came about through this system. Mars and Saturn are considered the malefics (bad planets – look at the mythology of these two gods to understand why) in traditional astrology. Saturn is exalted in Libra, whilst Mars rules Scorpio under the traditional system. That’s part of it. The Sun and Moon are considered the most important planets, and the Sun is in its fall in Libra, while the Moon is in its fall in Scorpio.
In other words, the two primary planets of the zodiac, the Sun and Moon, are weak, while the two traditionally evil planets, Saturn and Mars, are strong in Libra-Scorpio. Hence – via combusta.
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/horary_astrology.htm
Moon in the Via Combusta: The last stricture is if the Moon is in the Via Combusta; 15 degrees of Libra to 15 degrees of Scorpio. Traditionally, this portion of the zodiac contained several malevolent fixed stars that debilitated a planet.
The moon spends 2 and a half days a month in that part of the sky.
Lilly.
Niplan
Banned
[moderator edit - attacking/offensive comment removed]
Do you think "god" or the "cosmic diety" really would give you a skill you couldn't use just because a planet was in X spot... [moderator edit - attacking/offensive comment removed]
So you can't do a chart whenever the moon is via combusta.... wow well.... then that means that astrology isn't valid during X times...
so if there are only X times when astrology works, How can everything that is born have a chart as well? these people born at the same X time, shouldn't exist, because technically they have no chart that can be read.
So really some people don't exist, because they were born when the moon was via combusta.
If a question is born at the time you ask the horary for it, and its via combusta and the chart can't be "read" according to you copy pasta, then the question has no validity and therefore not a real question, because after all astrology only works during X times right?
never mind the fact that this could be the perfect time for person to ask question, as it would give you an obvious clear answer, oh no, we can't have any of those.
[moderator edit - offensive comment removed] lets mark those dates and exact times on the calendar, and not ask questions on those times... oh wait, there's ANOTHER aphorism that says you can't do that....
Nor can you do a lot of other things, [moderator edit - attacking/offensive comment removed] that's why the main one is "mix art with discretion".
A skilled astrology doesn't need aphorsims to tell them when they don't know what they are doing.
Do you think "god" or the "cosmic diety" really would give you a skill you couldn't use just because a planet was in X spot... [moderator edit - attacking/offensive comment removed]
So you can't do a chart whenever the moon is via combusta.... wow well.... then that means that astrology isn't valid during X times...
so if there are only X times when astrology works, How can everything that is born have a chart as well? these people born at the same X time, shouldn't exist, because technically they have no chart that can be read.
So really some people don't exist, because they were born when the moon was via combusta.
If a question is born at the time you ask the horary for it, and its via combusta and the chart can't be "read" according to you copy pasta, then the question has no validity and therefore not a real question, because after all astrology only works during X times right?
never mind the fact that this could be the perfect time for person to ask question, as it would give you an obvious clear answer, oh no, we can't have any of those.
[moderator edit - offensive comment removed] lets mark those dates and exact times on the calendar, and not ask questions on those times... oh wait, there's ANOTHER aphorism that says you can't do that....
Nor can you do a lot of other things, [moderator edit - attacking/offensive comment removed] that's why the main one is "mix art with discretion".
A skilled astrology doesn't need aphorsims to tell them when they don't know what they are doing.
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lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
[moderator edit - reponse to attacking comment removed]
#EDIT: What was edited out here was a quote from Niplan's post.
(just so there's no confusion)Lilly.
Do you think "god" or the "cosmic diety" really would give you a skill you couldn't use just because a planet was in X spot... [mod edit]
I guess you must have missed the point about the reasons why that part of the sky is problematic when the moon is there. [moderator edit - reponse to attacking comment removed]
so if there are only X times when astrology works, How can everything that is born have a chart as well? these people born at the same X time, shouldn't exist, because technically they have no chart that can be read.
So really some people don't exist, because they were born when the moon was via combusta.
Umm-we are referring to HORARY here, not natal.
[moderator edit - reponse to attacking comment removed]
#EDIT: What was edited out here was a quote from Niplan's post.
(just so there's no confusion)Lilly.
Do you think "god" or the "cosmic diety" really would give you a skill you couldn't use just because a planet was in X spot... [mod edit]
I guess you must have missed the point about the reasons why that part of the sky is problematic when the moon is there. [moderator edit - reponse to attacking comment removed]
so if there are only X times when astrology works, How can everything that is born have a chart as well? these people born at the same X time, shouldn't exist, because technically they have no chart that can be read.
So really some people don't exist, because they were born when the moon was via combusta.
Umm-we are referring to HORARY here, not natal.
[moderator edit - reponse to attacking comment removed]
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lillyjgc
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Out of interest, Niplan, whose rules do you go by? [moderator edit - comment removed]
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175211&postcount=6
Re: Lost: Divorce Papers
Moon is via combusta, Bad indication that no answer can be given at this time, basically a ask again at a later time, Unfortunately making this chart null and void for now.
__________________
In this post you concurred with my views-so *what's changed*?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175211&postcount=6
Re: Lost: Divorce Papers
Moon is via combusta, Bad indication that no answer can be given at this time, basically a ask again at a later time, Unfortunately making this chart null and void for now.
__________________
And the troll says
“Its only making it kinkier what should I do?!?!”
“Its only making it kinkier what should I do?!?!”
In this post you concurred with my views-so *what's changed*?
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Neptune Rising
Well-known member
Hi all
Can we please keep the discussion focused on the horary astrology, methods ect, and not on each other, non personal.
Thanking you
NR
Can we please keep the discussion focused on the horary astrology, methods ect, and not on each other, non personal.
Thanking you
NR
Neptune Rising
Well-known member
In addition, AquaruisT, I thought I'd just add about a chart with Mercury retrograde.
I did one recently, a month ago, asking 'will I get the job'. I did get the job, I was also signified by Mercury retrograde. The chart was readable, but it turned out I changed my mind in the end and gave my notice.
Its in the horary career section, if required for research.
NR
I did one recently, a month ago, asking 'will I get the job'. I did get the job, I was also signified by Mercury retrograde. The chart was readable, but it turned out I changed my mind in the end and gave my notice.
Its in the horary career section, if required for research.
NR
As I wrote in an earlier post on this thread, the way I have always looked at these "strictures" vs judgement, is not in an absolute, forbidden sense, but rather as warnings that the indications in the chart are subject to an undercurrent of greater uncertainty than is USUALLY the case whatever the form of divination used. The experience of various observers/practitioners over the centuries has developed these purely empirically-based "strictures", which rather should be renamed "warnings", because when these cosmic "markers" are present, experience has demonstrated that less obvious or even hidden undercurrents are especially active (at such times) which make the APPARENT indications less certain, or perhaps, less fixed, less likely to actually turn out as they APPEAR they should. Along this line of thinking I'll extend this view, definitelyto event charts, and even to natal charts (to a certain extent)
Allegedly the Via Combusta applies only to the Moon and only in horary; yet I believe I've seen difficulty even in natal charts with a planet (or Part or sensitive degree/cusp) in the Via Combusta. Again I'll state that I do not believe this or other "stricture" rules render a horary unfit for judgement (except the Dragon's Tail in the ascendant!); however I do believe that these astrological factors, when present, show that difficult, hidden, unsettling, perhaps even chaotic, influences are particularly at work at the time of the chart, requiring much more circumspection and insight in delineating that chart, than would otherwise be required.
Allegedly the Via Combusta applies only to the Moon and only in horary; yet I believe I've seen difficulty even in natal charts with a planet (or Part or sensitive degree/cusp) in the Via Combusta. Again I'll state that I do not believe this or other "stricture" rules render a horary unfit for judgement (except the Dragon's Tail in the ascendant!); however I do believe that these astrological factors, when present, show that difficult, hidden, unsettling, perhaps even chaotic, influences are particularly at work at the time of the chart, requiring much more circumspection and insight in delineating that chart, than would otherwise be required.
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