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  #1  
Unread 06-15-2013, 11:31 PM
melisa melisa is offline
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"mental health" house and planets?

Hi---
I am curious about which houses indicate mental health---I am guessing that is could be the 3rd (mental matters), 8th, and 12th house (the subconscious). Planets indicating mental health matters would likely be Mercury, Neptune and Pluto?
I myself have Mercury in the 12th square Neptune in the 3rd and inconjunct Chiron in 7th---doesn't sound so good for mental health. My 8th is ruled by Pisces. Pluto rising gives me strength to focus on self-transformation.

Melisa

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Unread 06-16-2013, 01:01 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

I've seen the 3rd and 4th given in certain Vedic astrology contexts. Parashara colloquially refers to the 4th as 'the happy', and malefics there are meant to be rather undermining. I dimly recall there's a few yogas to that effect.

Barbara Pijan seems to use the 3rd.

The Moon is a good bet to find mental health problems. My Moon for example. The 4th would seem to be the nearest house analog, in my view.

I was thinking about this subject earlier, how the earliest experiences seem to have the greatest imprint on our psyche, and determine to a large degree whether we experience the world as pleasant or unpleasant. And the person who we meet first (generally) is mother. And if we don't we experience a critical absence.
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Unread 06-16-2013, 04:36 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

Modernist Charles Carter also gave much importance to the 3rd house, but more in relation to mental problems (tendency to) than to over-all mental/emotional health.
All the houses, ultimately, connect up to represent the foundational picture of the mental/emotional/personality qualities; I'd count the 1st house as probably the most significant, plus the house/sign of the Sun and Moon; the 3rd, 6th (physical health ramifications as also with the 1st), the 8th, possibly the 10th, would all be important; probably also the 12th (restrictions, possible self-undoings).
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  #4  
Unread 06-16-2013, 12:07 PM
demetraceres demetraceres is offline
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

I thought the 12th house traditionally represents mental health or at least mental health troubles (including mental health institutions)?

But I've been also wondering what is the importance of the first house and the ruler of the ascendant. Maybe representing how comfortable are we with ourselves and our life? Just wondering...
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Unread 06-16-2013, 01:19 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
I thought the 12th house traditionally represents mental health or at least mental health troubles (including mental health institutions)?

But I've been also wondering what is the importance of the first house and the ruler of the ascendant. Maybe representing how comfortable are we with ourselves and our life? Just wondering...
12th house - Main Rulerships http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html

'…..12th house represents hidden matters that are restrained, secret, incapable of action or of being fully understood. This can sometimes suggest conditions that are in a premature state of development, not yet recognised by conscious mind (a recent horary on 'will I become pregnant?' showed the querent was already pregnant but unaware of it because of a separating trine from the Moon to Venus, ruler of the 5th, located in the 12th).

Traditionally, however, it is a wholly unfortunate house, associated with sad events, sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour, all manner of affliction and self-undoing....'


'...12th represents places that are denied access to public view, particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation, or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style, such as institutions or prisons. Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation, but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house which represents religious concerns.

12th has rulership over scandals generally, personal fears and skeletons in the family closet.

Lilly notes: "the significator in the 12th house can show someone in despair" ([CA], p.42)....'


'12th significations include secret, unknown enemies, such men as maliciously undermine their neighbors or inform secretly against them: traitors, spies; witchcraft, malicious hauntings; weakness, infirmity and bondage.

12th also rules great cattle, such as horses, oxen, elephants, of which Ezra notes "Those which serve as a mount for men".

12th can be used to signify the mother's kin (3rd from 10th); finances of friends (2nd from 11th); sickness of the spouse (6th from 7th) and the death of children (8th from 5th).....'
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  #6  
Unread 06-18-2013, 12:56 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

Well, I use 2nd and 8th- 2nd representing self-worth/self-value and 8th representing valuing others. 12th house is the unconscious house and the house of self-undoing, whereas, 6th house is the house of public enemies.
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Unread 06-20-2013, 09:37 AM
demetraceres demetraceres is offline
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

It seems there are so many approaches to this issue. It's a very sensitive subject and I believe it has to be taken with great precaution.

I would like to mention the text I've found about a year ago and this is a translation of Simon Chedzey's text, unfortunately I don't have a link in english. It's not about mental health in general, but about astrological significators of narcissistic personality. His definition of narcissism is not a classical psychiatric one however but covers very wide range of different kind of disorders (which most people wouldn't ascribe to narcissistic personality). The list is so wide that most of the people (including myself) probably can find themselves there.
Among many other astrological significators are more or less all aspects to Saturn and Saturn in Virgo, Aries, Pisces or Gemini, strong or unaspected Jupiter or Jupiter in Virgo or Capricorn, Neptun aspecting Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn or South Node, Moon aspecting Pluto, Chiron or conjunct North Node or Moon in Pisces, Aries or in the first house, Sun in the first house, in Aries, unaspected or aspecting Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, etc.

Here are two other links just for grasp, one is about mental health, the other about mental illness:

http://www.jupitersweb.com/astrology...al-health.html

http://www.bava.org/astrological-sig...ental-illness/

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  #8  
Unread 08-11-2013, 05:46 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
It seems there are so many approaches to this issue. It's a very sensitive subject and I believe it has to be taken with great precaution.

I would like to mention the text I've found about a year ago and this is a translation of Simon Chedzey's text, unfortunately I don't have a link in english. It's not about mental health in general, but about astrological significators of narcissistic personality. His definition of narcissism is not a classical psychiatric one however but covers very wide range of different kind of disorders (which most people wouldn't ascribe to narcissistic personality). The list is so wide that most of the people (including myself) probably can find themselves there.
Among many other astrological significators are more or less all aspects to Saturn and Saturn in Virgo, Aries, Pisces or Gemini, strong or unaspected Jupiter or Jupiter in Virgo or Capricorn, Neptun aspecting Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn or South Node, Moon aspecting Pluto, Chiron or conjunct North Node or Moon in Pisces, Aries or in the first house, Sun in the first house, in Aries, unaspected or aspecting Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, etc.

Here are two other links just for grasp, one is about mental health, the other about mental illness:

http://www.jupitersweb.com/astrology...al-health.html

http://www.bava.org/astrological-sig...ental-illness/
Thanks for the links, I wonder about it to, there's alot of my family members who have struggled with it.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 06:59 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

Mercury, Uranus, Neptune, 3rd, 6th, 8th and 12th houses also anything to do with Health, Ascendant, Sun and Moon.

And the really important thing is Midpoints of your natal chart (hereditary mental illness or just born with tendency of it), Progressed chart (chronic health issue and the timing when it started and when will it be better).

Solar return, then lunar return to investigate actual timing of the triggers of the condition such as abuse, accident, disability, injury, addictions etc.

I am afraid, to analysis if one has mental health issues, you will need to look at more than just houses and planets alone.

In fact, by medical research of WHO, 1 in 4 will have some form of mental illness and neurological disorders, that is due to changes of aspects in progression, solar, Eclipses (Solar and lunar), transits both slow and fast moving (usually the slow moving one has greater impact) that triggers/activates the "Points" in your natal chart over the years of a person's chart, life events.

http://www.who.int/whr/2001/media_ce...ss_release/en/
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  #10  
Unread 08-11-2013, 07:24 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Mercury, Uranus, Neptune, 3rd, 6th, 8th and 12th houses also anything to do with Health, Ascendant, Sun and Moon.

And the really important thing is Midpoints of your natal chart (hereditary mental illness or just born with tendency of it), Progressed chart (chronic health issue and the timing when it started and when will it be better).

Solar return, then lunar return to investigate actual timing of the triggers of the condition such as abuse, accident, disability, injury, addictions etc.

I am afraid, to analysis if one has mental health issues, you will need to look at more than just houses and planets alone.

In fact, by medical research of WHO, 1 in 4 will have some form of mental illness and neurological disorders, that is due to changes of aspects in progression, solar, Eclipses (Solar and lunar), transits both slow and fast moving (usually the slow moving one has greater impact) that triggers/activates the "Points" in your natal chart over the years of a person's chart, life events.

http://www.who.int/whr/2001/media_ce...ss_release/en/
In my family we have had a lot of suicides, incest and one murderer.

Most recently my sister committed suicide ,on June 10th 2013. At the time we did not know what happened but the autopsy shows she took an overdose of pills and she texted my cousin she was going to commit suicide.

It's just devastating what all my family has been through.

I don't drink or use drugs and I am in college studying behavioral science. I think because I want to understand mental and social issues.

( Moon in Aquarius 12th house)

Pisces Rising
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:38 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

My understanding of astrology is each planet and sign has double meanings both negative and positive. We studied them, we detected the timing then we manipulating them before it occurring in cycle again and again. That's why it is a form of Magic.

A good astrologer and a student of astrology is to understand both sides of the energy. The purpose is to manipulate the energy of the planet to learn our lessons and overcome the obstacles that we don't need to suffer with. We liberate from our family curses or ongoing karma of any reason.

Astrology gives us the knowledge of will free and make our choice based on the information and it is up to us how we rebuild our karma.

It is like having the knowledge of knowing eating artificial sweetener will not be good for you but no one will publicly tell you how bad they are as every one drinking diet coke and most people care very little what it really does. But once you found out the facts and truths, it is up to you rather you let yourself to be at risk? But making right decision today will then alternate your own destiny, to be in control of your own story with careful consideration.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:40 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
My understanding of astrology is each planet and sign has double meanings both negative and positive. We studied them, we detected the timing then we manipulating them before it occurring in cycle again and again. That's why it is a form of Magic.

A good astrologer and a student of astrology is to understand both sides of the energy. The purpose is to manipulate the energy of the planet to learn our lessons and overcome the obstacles that we don't need to suffer with. We liberate from our family curses or ongoing karma of any reason.

Astrology gives us the knowledge of will free and make our choice based on the information and it is up to us how we rebuild our karma.

It is like having the knowledge of knowing eating artificial sweetener will not be good for you but no one will publicly tell you how bad they are as every one drink diet coke and care very little what it really does. But once you found out the facts and truths, it is up to you rather you let yourself to be at risk then but making decision today it will then alternate your own destiny.
Thanks, I have been working hard to overcome a lot of painful events in our family. I really want to heal all the way and be able to help other heal from their past pain to.

I like your analogy it makes sense to me.
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“Anything that’s human is mentionable, and anything that is mentionable can be more manageable. When we can talk about our feelings, they become less overwhelming, less upsetting, and less scary. The people we trust with that important talk can help us know that we are not alone.”
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Unread 08-11-2013, 08:06 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Thanks, I have been working hard to overcome a lot of painful events in our family. I really want to heal all the way and be able to help other heal from their past pain to.

I like your analogy it makes sense to me.

You will do very well as you have the Will to help others.

Have faith in yourself and have faith in God as well if you do believe. The path might not be easy and the people that you will help in the future will also remind a lot of your own personal events. It is all part of the lessons and treasure the opportunity that is given to you to help both yourself and others. At the end you will achieve your own liberation.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 08:45 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by Utahn View Post
Thanks, I have been working hard to overcome a lot of painful events in our family. I really want to heal all the way and be able to help other heal from their past pain to.

I like your analogy it makes sense to me
.
As well as working with planetary energies as Poyi has described/advised,
there is an encouraging youtube talk called 'Dealing With Emotion'
that may be helpful for you at this challenging time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_TtOysQOA
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let your food be your medicine: let your medicine be your food. Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY red cabbage sliced Equatorially illustrates the Golden Mean Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 08-11-2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
You will do very well as you have the Will to help others.

Have faith in yourself and have faith in God as well if you do believe. The path might not be easy and the people that you will help in the future will also remind a lot of your own personal events. It is all part of the lessons and treasure the opportunity that is given to you to help both yourself and others. At the end you will achieve your own liberation.
Thanks I love this thread, and all the positivity coming out of it especially on such a sensitive topic.

I have done some volunteering at our local refugee center and also the community action program food bank.

Most recently I was learning how to do mediation for a college class and volunteered to mediate at court and high schools.

But over the summer my sister died and it has been hard to get back into the groove still I am trying !
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Unread 08-11-2013, 09:10 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
As well as working with planetary energies as Poyi has described/advised,
there is an encouraging youtube talk called 'Dealing With Emotion'
that may be helpful for you at this challenging time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_TtOysQOA
Thank you I will watch it right now !
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“Anything that’s human is mentionable, and anything that is mentionable can be more manageable. When we can talk about our feelings, they become less overwhelming, less upsetting, and less scary. The people we trust with that important talk can help us know that we are not alone.”
― Fred Rogers
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Unread 08-11-2013, 09:13 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Thank you I will watch it right now !
Great! If you need more, then check the talks listed in the right margin as well for the one that suits best
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Unread 08-11-2013, 09:19 PM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Thanks I love this thread, and all the positivity coming out of it especially on such a sensitive topic.

I have done some volunteering at our local refugee center and also the community action program food bank.

Most recently I was learning how to do mediation for a college class and volunteered to mediate at court and high schools.

But over the summer my sister died and it has been hard to get back into the groove still I am trying !

I am very pleased to hear that you are living your life to the fullness and enrich other people's life with yours.

I was meant to say sorry for your lost. But then I thought to myself, there is always gain from lost. Both sorrow and joy will pass, we experienced both and we becoming stronger for those we must serve in the future. Your sister is part of you and forever will be. She was longing for something great in her life. You will be part of her to achieve that for her. And she will be the sister of those come to you one day.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 12:06 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

No planetary placement shows mental health or ill health...its on the same par as can u tell someones sexuality through their chart, no you cant...its bloody nonsense....

Who is to say of most people what is mentally ok or not? We know the extremes and the criminals, what about everyone else? Who is the bloody judge to pidgeonhole them, sheesh,mental houses and planets LoooL, sad, astrology doesnt pidegeonhole or judge, oh i remember, humans do

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Unread 08-12-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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I was thinking about this subject earlier, how the earliest experiences seem to have the greatest imprint on our psyche, and determine to a large degree whether we experience the world as pleasant or unpleasant. And the person who we meet first (generally) is mother. And if we don't we experience a critical absence.
Secondary to that, I was reading recently that mental health is programmed during gestation. Not a bad link, but I'd prefer a scientific paper. Maybe I'll google one up later;

http://www.mothering.com/community/a...s-in-pregnancy
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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:02 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Secondary to that, I was reading recently that mental health is programmed during gestation. Not a bad link, but I'd prefer a scientific paper. Maybe I'll google one up later;

http://www.mothering.com/community/a...s-in-pregnancy
This is a cutting edge area of developmental neurobiology. I studied it back in February. I am short on time now but I can forward some (class) lectures by leaders in the field to you by the end of the month. Here is a start: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/26/6897.short

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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:21 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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This is a cutting edge area of developmental neurobiology. I studied it back in February. I am short on time now but I can forward some (class) lectures by leaders in the field to you by the end of the month. Here is a start: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/26/6897.short

Makes me think of the oldtime astrological "pre-natal epoch" concepts, and of the "blood-line" ideas (related to astrology) of certain esoteric traditions...
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Unread 08-12-2013, 05:38 AM
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Re: "mental health" house and planets?

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Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
The other form of depression is not as severe, meaning the vast majority are not suicidal or destructive, and that is typically treated with SSRIs or SSNIs, because it is believed -- but not proven --- to be caused by an imbalance of serotonin (or a combination of serotonin and other hormones)...
Just to say that there is this issue of physiological reasons for symptoms. Separately to that is the issue of differential effect of drugs on treating brain disease. Currently, there is research that can take a single cell from your skin, or hair, place it in media, inject the cells with a special set of proteins and revert it back to its "pluripotent" state: the state it was when you were an embryo, before it became a "differentiated" cell. These are not just cells. They are your cells, from now to your embryonic days.

The deal is that these (pluripotent stem) cells can be differentiated (instructed to develop), via simple genetic instruction, into neural cells, specific to certain brain regions and layers of the cortex of your brain. For example, they can become dopaminergic neurons from the striatum, which become affected in Parkinson's Disease. These cell cultures can be taken to test the efficacy of pharm. treatments that are tailored/peculiar to you. Given that these cells hold this memory of their past state, the question arises ... when, in the development of the brain, was a certain fate determined? Is it influenced by nutrition? Yadda, yadda...

Here is a brief introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-4SMGiKnE

This is so cutting edge that we are eons away from forming sound conclusions, particularly about depression. With that said, these types of studies are also done with inhibitory GABAergic neurons and excitatory glutamatergic neurons, that are implicated in the pharm. treatment of depression/anxiety etc. In respect of SSRIs etc. I think this is waste of time for the organism, it is not a solution, because there is always the development of tolerance. What is interesting for this discussion, as it relates to depression etc., is that with the use of our own consciousness, together with cognitive bias modification paradigms, outside of the petri dish, we can impose electrical biofeedback back into neuronal populations, which can be a very effective, drug free, treatment, not to disguise the process of personal growth and development, but to alleviate redundant effects, and it cuts out the middle man. Effectively, one works with their own (independent) energy.

Utahn: I offer my sincerest condolences.

Last edited by Mandy; 08-12-2013 at 07:54 AM.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 06:43 PM
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Deleted attacks and response to attacks

All,

I have deleted an attacking post and responses to that attacking post. While the attacking post contained astrology, it also contained many attacks, which is against the AW Forum rules, so I deleted the entire post. Also responses to attacking, no matter how helpfully meant, simply expand on the problem, so they were deleted as well. Remember, do NOT feed the trolls! If you see someone attacking or trolling, please report them to the Moderator team or click on the "!" to the top right of all posts.

Warning,

Tim
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Unread 09-06-2013, 07:34 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Deleted attacks and response to attacks

I'm curious....

What is our definition of "mental health/mental illness"?

In other words, What are we talking about here?

I don't accept "You know, Everybody knows what mental illness is."

How can we assign houses to something so un-defined?

Take a bell curve. Draw a vertcal line from the peak. Almost no one will fall on that line.
Almost everyone is "not normal".
How far from center before you are declared "mentally ill"?
And what are the criteria for meaurement?

In horary astrology it is demanded that the question be properly framed...
This question is not properly framed: It is vague and ill-defined.
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