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  #1  
Unread 03-29-2006, 03:30 AM
Draco Draco is offline
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Are Extraterrestrial Intelligences........?

Hi all,

I really should be in bed, but as I can't sleep I was searching some sites concerning paranormal phenomena, when the question arose:

'Are extraterrestrial intelligences in visitation of our planet?'

These are the kind of horary questions I like.

I feel that this is an intriguing question, as it is not of a personal nature, and the answers that could be gleaned from it could be of interest to us all.

There are two considerations before judgement in the chart. The first is that the Ascendant is at 26 Sagittarius, suggesting that I be aware that for some reason, the question may be being asked a little late. I wondered why this could be. A late Ascendant usually says that the answer to the question is already known, but I surely do not the answer, and I'm not even really sure what I believe regarding the situation.

What intrigues me is that the Ascendant lands in conjunction with the GC. Also, it cannot escape my interest that Pluto is right upon the Ascendant as well as upon the GC. I would normally not consider the Outers in a horary, but when they are conjunct significators or on a cusp, especially angles, I feel compelled to make the exception.

It is interesting that I should be asking a question about intelligences from outer space, that the Ascendant should be conjunct the GC, the heart and origin of everything in our galaxy.

The late Ascendant may indicate that this is a pretty much unfathomable question, which of course, I suspected, and it's conjunction with Pluto stationary declares this to be an enduring and unfathomable mystery. However, I can't help investigating the chart anyway.

The Ascendant in this question represents me but also 'us' by extension, as I ask this question concerning us all as a species. Might this Ascendant conjunct the GC tell us that we ourselves have originated from elsewhere deep within the galaxy? If so, would the late Ascendant suggest that we ourselves are the extraterrestrials, at least in part? Stationary Pluto on the Ascendant would suggest that we are a more mysterious and unfathomable species than we could ever imagine.

If we are shown by the Sagittarian Ascendant, then we are Jupiter retrograde in Scorpio in the 10th. Jupiter is the principle of expansion, and Scorpio is sex, death, transformation and the cycles of life and along with the principle of expansion would suggest evolution. However, Jupiter is retrograde, so it suggests de-volution. Is this telling us that rather than having evolved into something greater than what we were, we have in fact devolved into something less? If we consider the theory that some people hold that the reason that the missing link was never found was due to genetic intervention by some higher species, then perhaps the Ascendant conjunct the GC and our significator Jupiter retrograde in Scorpio, is a suggestion to us that our origins lie somewhere deep in the galaxy, and that through genetic intervention upon earthly creatures, we were created as a hybrid between those creatures and the higher intelligence. This would explain why we have devolved rather than evolved, because we are a hybrid of our extraterrestrial parents and unintelligent earthly beings, thus we have actually de-volved, and taken a step downwards from our stellar parents to become what we are.

Jupiter's retrogradation in the 10th house may show that we are not as dominant and supreme a species as we think we are.

As this is an 'Us and Them' question, according to Frawley's method, I will use the 7th cusp, to represent 'them'. I would have used the 9th for 'foreigners', but the Frawley method is nicely balanced and makes sense.

Seeing 'them' as the 7th cusp is interesting, because this places Jupiter, 'us' in their turned 4th house, and in our own 10th. To us we are kings of our own castle, we are of supreme intelligence. To them, we are in their 4th, so we are in thier home and upon their territory, and inheritors of their genes. We consider ourselves to be the highest, but they look down upon us.

The Descendant for 'them' is in Gemini, and the Sagittarius / Gemini axis is interesting in itself. The Sagittitarian Ascendant is partly one creature, and partly another, which is very intriguing considering the previous observations about us possibly being genetic hybrids.

The Descendant being Gemini, showing 'them' is intriguing also, given this line of thought, as it suggests genetic cloning. Gemini is doubly human, Sagittarius only one part human. Perhaps this suggests that what we have about us that makes us human, which caused that ever inexplicable evolutionary leap, is only half of what they are.

I see the human headed signs as the signs which possess intelligence. Looking at it this way, Gemini is double headed, their intelligence is greater than ours.

As they are represented by the Descendant in Gemini, then they are Mercury. This in interesting in that Mercury represents travel, and again an outer planet is hard to ignore because Uranus is right in conjunction with Mercury, so if Mercury tells us something about travel, then this is travel which is very innovative and technological.

Mercury is in exile in Pisces, so Mercury is not where it belongs. This is interesting considering that the question concerns whether extraterrestrial intelligences are among us, at it suggests that they are outside the environment they would normally operate within. They are in the sign which is ruled by Jupiter, they are in our world.

Mercury has an interest in Jupiter, as it is in Jupiter's world, but Jupiter has no reception of Mercury. So they know all about us, we know nothing of them.

Despite there being no receptions there is an aspect, and this is a trine which is applied by Mercury, which has a special interest in Jupiter. They come to visit us. Mercury benefits from it's trine to Jupiter, because Jupiter gives it a needed boost, as it is in it's sign of exile and fall. Does this mean that they are in a bad way here, and need something from us in order to maintain their strength?

Mercury translates light from Jupiter to Mars in Gemini in the 6th. So whatever it is that they approach us for is used to apply to whatever it is that Mars represents. So what might Mars show?

Mars is in the sign of Gemini, the sign that shows them as genetic reproducers of much greater intelligence that we. Taking this into consideration, Gemini in the 6th might tell us about biology, the 6th house ruling over animal life and the functions of the body. If the 6th house is biological, and Gemini is artificial reproduction and great intelligence, could Mars be surgery or engineering - genetic engineering?

Is this translation telling us that they are among us because they are continuing to use our genes to create other life forms? Have we always been and will continue to be a genetic experiment? I have no idea, but then the late Ascendant told me that this would be a hard nut to crack.

There is good mutual reception between Mercury and Mars, as Mars is in Mercury's domicile and exaltation, and Mercury in Mars' triplicity. So, the interaction between Mercury and Mars is not as secretive or mysterious as the interaction between Mars and Mercury.

I just get the feeling that they visit to apply us to experimentation purposes. Are they cloning us????

I think I'm digging myself a hole here, because this is so complicated I don't know how to interpret this so I would love some help.

I think that finding out what Mars represents in this context is the key to this reading. I'm tired and my brain is slow, but I would love to answer this. So I need your ideas.

I know that the Ascendant is late and that Saturn is in the 7th, showing the limitations in place upon trying to discern the identity of these 'others', which has become apparent, but this chart is too tempting to leave alone, and I would really like some input.

Ideas anyone?

Draco

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Unread 03-29-2006, 10:11 AM
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Re: Are Extraterrestrial Intelligences........?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
Ideas anyone?
I have one: I think knowing the chart data would help.
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Unread 03-29-2006, 11:55 AM
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Hi Draco,
I heard for the first time about "GC". Could you say something more about it or recomend me some site about it?
Thanks.
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Unread 03-29-2006, 04:43 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Hi both of you,

Quote:
I think knowing the chart data would help.
Ha ha. LOL. Yes of course, as I said I was tired and my brain was going slow. Here is the data:

29th March, 2006, 2:58, St. Annes, England - 03W02 / 53N45

Goca, the GC refers to the Galactic Centre, and is the point in the zodiac at which we find the heart of our galaxy, the Milky Way. Many astrologers find a great deal of significance in the fact that Pluto, is transitting this degree at the moment, and I just found it to be very curious that this degree happens to be the Ascendant of this chart.

http://www.horary.com/hhcrl/galact.html

Here is an article by Futurist:

http://collaboratingwithfate.blogspo...ic-centre.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_centre

http://www.indepthastrology.net/id70.html
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Unread 03-29-2006, 08:50 PM
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Draco - great question! this is fun!... 10x for sharing it.

For the given data, I get a 26Sag54 Ascendant, which is not late. >27 degrees would be late, wouldn't it?

So, close to the Galactic Center (26Sag57)... perfect, I'd say, for a alien-related horary question.

When assigning a house for the quesited, I would consider the 9th house as describing the aliens. I prefer using the 9th house over the 7th because the question was specific and there is a more specific house to use than the 7th. It's just the same situation as when asking about, say one's boss, which already has a specific house, the 10th, but is also a "someone else" that could fit into the 7th house.

Ok, so the 9th house cusp is at 04Lib20 - ruler: Venus, but almuten: Saturn (the degree is in Saturn's term, triplicity and exaltation).
So, the obvious significator is Venus, the 9th house ruler, peregrine in Aquarius, describes a "peregrine" intelligent and supertechnologized (=Aquarius) civilization coming to visit us.

There're no aspects to Venus from Jupiter (ASC ruler) or the Moon, implying no contact.
Venus is disposed by Jupiter by term and by the Moon by face. That's a weak reception, but at least there is one.
In turn, Venus receives Jupiter in her term, so we have a mutual reception Venus-Jupiter by term - which lays the basis for communication.

However, this Venus thing is not all that it is: Saturn is a BETTER significator than Venus, for the aliens Draco inquired about, as Saturn is by far the 9th house almuten (2+3+4=9 Lilly points of essential dignity, while Venus has only 5).
So, Venus as a ruler of the aliens is just a cover-up story, they're better represented by Saturn.

The quick answer is given by the Moon in mutually applying trine with Saturn - a great example of BOTH civilizations looking forward for this contact.
However, the Moon is in Saturn's fall, in Aries, a place that Saturn hates, so it means that they (the aliens) are not particulary fond of us, or of having a direct contact (there're good reasons to believe that if they would have wanted a direct contact with us, they would have gone for it; instead, they sneak around).

Let's have a closer look at Saturn. Specifically, I am struck by Saturn being retrograde - it's a good indication of of they having been here before.
Saturn is disposed by the Sun, exalted in Aries. Their source of power is strong, the civilization they come from is advanced.
However, let's notice that Saturn is in Leo - which is a feral sign (=wild) - and on the same degree as the Moon's nodes - a critical degree - something's wrong with them, they seem to be in a crisis situation. This idea is further enforced by Saturn being in its exile sign (although in its own term and face as well), so they're kind of weak - possibly only when coming here - and the 9th house cusp is partile conjunct the South Node - a sign of bad omen.

I cannot help myself to think of the total solar eclipse that occurred within hours after Draco asked his question. What is an eclipse? It is Sun's ocultation by the Moon. In this chart, the Sun is Saturn's dispositor, so the he is the aliens' source of power or their hidden drive, and he was covered by the Moon - indicating a possible future tragic event that is bound to happen to them. Science-fiction, isn't it? Cool.

The Part of Fortune is in the 1st house - so there's some treasure on Earth (the 1st house = the Earth, inhabitants of the Earth). Notice the Part of Fortune being disposed by Saturn - could it be that this treasure belongs to them? Possibly. Ok, so the story unfolds as follows: They are coming back (Saturn retrograde) in order to get something that belongs to them (=Part of Fortune) in order to save their civilization from a future disaster (solar eclipse). How cool is that?! (just trying to figure out things here)

Notice that Capricorn is intercepted inside the 1st house, which makes Saturn a kind of secondary ruler of the 1st house. How is that possible? WHAT IF they are also from Earth, but just from a different time (Saturn rules time). For instance, from the future.

The Galactic Center conjunct the Ascendant (=us, the Earth itself), suggest that we are 'de facto' members of the galaxy as well. Pluto on the Ascendant suggests that there is much more about us, than we currently are aware of. Finding out more about ourselves will help clarify the aliens' situation as well.

Ok, done with Saturn, the aliens, let's move to us. The second half of Sagittarius is feral as well (the rear half of a centaur is animal) - so we (the ASC) may be wild as well. Jupiter, our significator is peregrine and retrograde, a weak situation! Are we humans peregrines as well? In fact we only keep records of our history for several thousand years. What was before? Why is Jupiter retrograde? Isn't this showing that we turn either to ourselves either to our own history to get answers? It could be.

Let's rewind: we are members of the Galaxy and we are peregrine. So, we are extraterrestrials as well, who settled down on Earth some time ago.

Notice that in this chart Jupiter is stronger than Saturn, besides Jupiter disposes both Saturn and the Sun (Saturn's dispositor) by triplicity - so it's like we have some power over these aliens. Jupiter's dispositor, Mars, receives in his domicile Saturn's dispositor, the Sun. This situation sounds like "My daddy is stronger than your daddy".

Well, too much imagination, I suppose. Thanks for reading, though

Draco - together we make a good team. How about writing an entire SF book based on this chart?

Your interpretation is certainly interesting. It could be the other side of the same coin, which you saw. I can only say: it is possible...

Too bad we cannot verify these astrological allegations. Exciting exercise, though...
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Unread 03-29-2006, 09:23 PM
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Draco thanks for this links and explanation! Your question is really interesting, I notice for the first time Radu answer an long post and thankfull to your question we can learn a lot about explanation of horary chart! I think this question deserve chart so here it is:

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Unread 03-30-2006, 12:45 AM
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Hi Radu!

Quote:
Draco - great question! this is fun!... 10x for sharing it.
Your welcome. I really like horary questions which are outside of the personal, because the answer is sigificant to all of us, such as your question as the whether the presidential death-cycle prophecy is true or not. These type of questions are of relevance to us all, and it would be good if we had more questions like this on the boards.

Quote:
For the given data, I get a 26Sag54 Ascendant, which is not late. >27 degrees would be late, wouldn't it?
Er....yes! I blame my Pisces Ascendant for making me something of a scatter brain! First I forget to provide the data, and then I consider the Ascendant late. Duh! :? As I mentioned however, I was rather tired at the time, my brain was slow, but somehow I just couldn't sleep. Maybe somehow I was kept awake because I was meant to ask the question? Perhaps I was just in the right place at the right time, in order to make this chart with Pluto/GC upon the Ascendant? Maybe this is what was keeping me awake?

Quote:
When assigning a house for the quesited, I would consider the 9th house as describing the aliens.
Yes. I see what you mean here, and the 9th cusp would have been my first instinct, describing the visitors as 'foreigners' to us. The only reason I opted for the 7th, is that I am trying to work with Frawley's methods, and in a sense this is an 'Us and Them' question according to what I've learned, but I do agree that the 9th would seem the most obvious.

It interests me about the 9th ruler being Venus peregrine. If the quesited are peregrine, then are they somehow wanderers, with no fixed abode? Venus might suggest that they are benign entities, which is a relief, but then as you said, perhaps this is a cover up, a mask, as Saturn would be the stronger significator.

Venus is in a human sign, which is of interest, because the question was do they come to us in visitation - quesited in a human sign - they are among us - quesited peregrine - they are not at home here, this is not where they belong. As you said, Aquarius would show a scientific intelligence.

Quote:
There're no aspects to Venus from Jupiter (ASC ruler) or the Moon, implying no contact.
Venus is disposed by Jupiter by term and by the Moon by face. That's a weak reception, but at least there is one.
In turn, Venus receives Jupiter in her term, so we have a mutual reception Venus-Jupiter by term - which lays the basis for communication.
This is interesting, as there are no aspects, the contact is not manifest in an obvious way, but the receptions show inclinations between us and them, suggesting that they are among us, but that this is covert and secretive?

Quote:
The quick answer is given by the Moon in mutually applying trine with Saturn - a great example of BOTH civilizations looking forward for this contact.
However, the Moon is in Saturn's fall, in Aries, a place that Saturn hates, so it means that they (the aliens) are not particulary fond of us, or of having a direct contact (there're good reasons to believe that if they would have wanted a direct contact with us, they would have gone for it; instead, they sneak around).
Again this is interesting. The fact that the Moon applies to aspect Saturn, may show how we as a species are continually looking for life elsewhere in our universe, but as you say, Saturn does not like the Moon, so they do not want to be contacted or discovered. This is intriguing coupled with thinking that Venus shows that they move among us in secret, they are among us and do not belong here.

Saturn itself is in a bad way. It is exiled in Leo, on the cusp of the 8th and retrograde. Saturn is death, the 8th is death, and retrogradation may signify that which is deathly, because it is the nature of life to move foward and the nature of death to draw back. Is this saying that they are in visitation among us because somehow they require something from us in order to save themselves from extinction? If so this would support your idea when you say:

Quote:
The Part of Fortune is in the 1st house - so there's some treasure on Earth (the 1st house = the Earth, inhabitants of the Earth).
Saturn in exile is interesting in itself, because perhaps they move among us because they themselves are in exile, are they unable to survive where it is that they come from?

You say that Saturn retrograde shows that they are returning here and it is interesting that Saturn rules the old and the ancient, the past - so are they returning to the past, their own history - are they coming here from the future. Science fiction indeed, but is it fiction?

I have always thought that if it would ever at all be possible for time travel to exist at some point in the future, which according to Einstein is theoretically quite possible, then surely, such travellers would be and always would have been among us?

Quote:
WHAT IF they are also from Earth, but just from a different time (Saturn rules time). For instance, from the future.
Exactly! Which would still make them 'aliens' to us all the same. Yes, Saturn or Kronos, is time and also history - Saturn retrograde and in exile on the 8th cusp - they are outside of thier own time frame and coming back to us here in order to alter the course of history to save themselves from doom. This is quite mind bending stuff!

I think that I really do believe that the most feasible explanation is that they are coming from our own future, the chart seems to be supporting this.

I also think that the imminent eclipse is a significant feature of this chart, as it is the Moon's next aspect or should I say, conjunction. The Sun is the ruler of Saturn's domain, and so shows the future world from which they come and are subject to, but the light of the Sun is about to be occulted by the Moon, for we can never see that future, for as far as we are concerned it does not exist, it is completely indiscernable, eclipsed.

Thanks for looking at this with me, do you have any more ideas?.

Goca,

Thanks for providing the chart! I think I'll start using the AW charts from now on because it's a lot less messing about that uploading AD charts through ImageShack, but it's just habit.

Draco
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Unread 03-30-2006, 02:32 AM
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Re: Are Extraterrestrial Intelligences........?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
'Are extraterrestrial intelligences in visitation of our planet?'
Ideas anyone?

Draco
I hardly ever come into this forum so I just discovered this Draco from another post you made elsewhere. In a word.....YES. Always have been in different ways and different dimensions. See how easy that was?
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Unread 03-30-2006, 05:49 AM
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Draco, what happened with your avatar?
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Unread 03-30-2006, 03:08 PM
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Hi,

I have no idea what happened to it. I'm trying to get it back but I am finding it difficult. :?

Draco
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Unread 03-31-2006, 12:43 AM
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I believe we're all part of the "unreal" .... Question for horary right now... are we individual ?
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Unread 04-06-2006, 01:50 AM
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Using a horary chart is very interesting, especially since the time the question was asked fell right on the galactic center.

But.... to answer the question: are extraterrestials here? I say yes, just look at my avatar. I've taken about three hundred screenshots of highly anomalous activity about Mt Popocatepetl. They were real busy above the volcano and being closely monitored by Telmex web cams in 2002 - 2003.
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Unread 04-06-2006, 06:41 PM
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Hi Empath,

Quote:
But.... to answer the question: are extraterrestials here?
Yes, but how do we know that they are 'extraterrestrials' and that the things in your pics are spaceships?

Might they not be futuristic human beings in time-machines? This seems to be what the horary suggests.

Draco
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Unread 04-07-2006, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Yes, but how do we know that they are 'extraterrestrials' and that the things in your pics are spaceships?

Might they not be futuristic human beings in time-machines? This seems to be what the horary suggests
I've wondered this myself and I have no answer. But is it no less amazing and significant that portals are opening and are so fluid in the time/space continuum?

The visitors could be using dimensional portals to visit -- from other futures, parallel universes, alternate timeframes, and other planets. It's kind of ridiculous to think they come across the light years on rocket fuel.

When I was a kid, I read a book that riveted me. It was my first "aha" moment reading a book. I was in 3rd grade. The book was The Forgotten Door. It was about a boy from another planet who fell through an interdimensional portal and landed on earth. It made so much sense to me.... I remember watching as John Glen orbited the earth and thinking that it was a nice baby step.....
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