What are our Feelings and are they based in the Rising Sign?

Our3Minds

Well-known member
To me Feelings are all about how we interact with others.

I think that they can be, at times, the strongest part of our personality. When we look at the Signs we have for our Rising Sign we can see that this is how we React to our environment, how we Sense our way through life. The traits from our Rising Sign should point us to an understanding of the NEEDS we have inside of us. Feelings in their simplest form are Reactions. Something is said or done to us physically or mentally and we can give it a Feeling name: We can Feel hurt and afraid or we can Feel giddily happy from our newest love interest. We get angry, sad, pissed or we can Feel our heart skip a beat from the Sensations we are getting from those we love. Feelings are based on how we process the input. It’s our senses that are used to judge the environment and with some of those inputs we are able to look at life “Objectively”, from our Thinking side (our Sun Sign), but if it has to do with Feelings it is our Rising Sign that pays attention, it is this side of us that we will use to base many of our responses to others. If you think about it many of our responses are based on our interpretation of what we Felt about that situation before; we learn from our mistakes – usually. We remember Past encounters and our new responses as based on them. Our Feeling side doesn’t like to keep getting hurt so it will naturally put up protective barriers to prevent it. Of course all of our Feelings have to do with what we endured as we were growing up, how we respond to our family and friends. Some of you will say you had no problems in childhood, “it was a breeze”, while many of us may have not been so lucky. Regardless of our struggles through childhood our Feelings still exist and we will base much of our Present life on the “Subjective” traits we get from our Rising Sign.​
One thing I think is very true is that the Function or Focus of the Signs will be different based on which area they are found in. An Aries Sun Sign shows different traits then when it is in the Moon or the Rising Sign and that is, I believe (IB), because of the different function these parts of our being are made to have:​
The Sun Sign part of us is Leo-like in its need to be the center of our Being. It is our Ego and it thinks of ways it can better itself and just like Leo shines brightly to attract others so is our Ego need to be the center of everyone else’s thoughts and it is through our Sun Sign traits that this function is fulfilled. Leo is an Expressive Fire Sign so, IB, this part of us has a need to be “seen and heard” and it can be how we egotistically demand our way – the “I” of our Being. In the Sun Sign the Fire and Air Signs will, IB, exhibit a stronger focus on what “I” want to do (Extroverted), while the Earth and Water Signs won’t be nearly as demanding (Introverted), but still the Ego will be visible. Just knowing the kind of Element a person has in each area will help you to understand a lot of why a person is acting the way they do.​
To me our Emotional side is Cancer-like; giving us not only a reflective Expression of the other two parts of our being but also the ability to be protective of our self. Cancer, like all Water Signs, absorbs the emotions that are coming from others but with Cancer it’s more Feeling orientated (Cancer is the Personal Water Sign). Our Emotional side, IB, functions to be our Social Expression, using the traits from our Moon Sign to try to unconditionally Reflect on the abilities (or (disabilities) that are a part of our Being. It is the part of us that helps to “tailor” our Feelings and Thoughts about the situation at hand. But just like Cancer, this part of us can get too overwhelmed by the input and exhibit a strong Emotional response to some situations. In this area Earth and Water Signs will not be as forthcoming with their Expressions, more reserved in their speech, while the Fire and Air Signs will usually have a lot they want to talk about.​
A lot of our Emotions are dependent on the Feeling energy from our Rising Sign so as an example a Aries Rising Sign will have some strong needs that need to be vented so even if the person has an Earth or Water Sign in the Moon, Aries will be heard, probably forcing the normally calm Earth and Water Moon to be strongly more Emotional. You get what I’m trying to say – it’s the mix of the Signs we have in our Rising and Moon that drive a lot of the energy we will exhibit and many of the struggles a person has experienced through life will be “broadcast” in some manner or the other –either reserved and quiet or overly emotional and demanding, our Feelings have to be dealt with.​
Which brings back to the Rising Signs; they, IB, are Taurus-like (Taurus should be ruled by the Earth which is where we physically live and experience the sensations we do within our bodies). Taurus is the most sensual of the Signs – they use all the senses to connect with others and IB that is the Focus or Function of this part of us. It is our Personal side, the part that takes things Personal. We have a great need in our Feeling side to belong, to feel comfortable and to be satisfied (hunger), to have a secure environment. Earth and Water Signs in the Rising take things very deeply personal, they Feel all that is happening to them while Fire and Air not so much, they just need to Feel that they belong to something and then they are usually happy.​
There are many other factors to consider but many of this stuff is the foundational Energy and Behavior we will exhibit as our planet energies rub shoulders with others planet energies. Sometimes we collide and damage is done and sometimes we get repelled by others. Life to me is the reactions we are having daily with all those other Signs and how well we are able to handle what we encounter.​
Our3minds.com​
 

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Our3Minds

Well-known member
The preceding post is the product of Jupiter rising.

Soooooo everything I've learned and am trying to help others understand is because I have a Jupiter in the first house? I can see I have the desire to inspire but the rest of my understandings, I'm sure, are the product of my Mix of "Personal" planets and how I developed through them. A Life creates art type of response.

Greybeard I don't understand the point of your reply because your statement doesn't make any reference to what I was trying to say.

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greybeard

Well-known member
What are "feelings"? Astrology textbooks generally assign "feelings" to Moon.

Taurus should not be ruled by the Earth. Please show me the Earth in your horoscope chart. Point to it.

What is the ego, what is its source and function? Does this differ from feelings, and if so how?

What is "mind"? Why do Hindu astrologers say Moon is mind, while we in the west point to Mercury? How should we, as astrologers, deal with this divergence?

The human mind passes through at least two very distinct stages, qualitatively (functionally) different, during our lifetime. Do these two stages call for different astrological treatment? It is interesting to note that the subject himself can't see the change from one stage to another, is unaware of the rather sudden transformation; it takes an outside observer to see it. This one observable fact leads us to wonder what other things about ourselves we are unaware of.
 
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Our3Minds

Well-known member
Taurus should not be ruled by the Earth. Please show me the Earth in your horoscope chart. Point to it.

What are "feelings"? Astrology textbooks generally assign "feelings" to Moon.
I first want to apologize about our Rising Sign being Taurus-like. I know better, but I was under the spell of my own bias towards that Sign. Of course our Rising Sign is Aries-like, 1st house and all, but Aries and Taurus are none-the-less the most Sensitive (sensual) of the Signs – they both have strong reactive Feelings to life which is why I think our Feelings are connected with our Rising Signs and as far as Taurus having a connection to planet Earth, why not? Has anyone really thought about that aspect before? The outlandish ideas of Aquarius are sometimes needed to get people to look outside the box they are stuck in. That’s what’s so great about us humans – we progress from darker times (limited knowledge) because we allow the free expression of ideas and we adopt those that give us more understanding. Greybeard, just because something hasn’t been written or thought about in ages past doesn’t mean it won’t have validly today or usefulness in the future.

What is "mind"? Why do Hindu astrologers say Moon is mind, while we in the west point to Mercury? How should we, as astrologers, deal with this divergence?

All I can say is that the truth about our Mind is incomplete at this time.

The human mind passes through at least two very distinct stages, qualitatively (functionally) different, during our lifetime. Do these two stages call for different astrological treatment? It is interesting to note that the subject himself can't see the change from one stage to another, is unaware of the rather sudden transformation; it takes an outside observer to see it. This one observable fact leads us to wonder what other things about ourselves we are unaware of.

I don’t know where you get this idea but today there are many ideas out there about our Psyche and by human standards our study of the human mind – Psychology, is rather immature and in its infancy. Since Freud and Jung started this movement less than 200 years ago our analysis of the mind, both medically and intellectually has come a long way but we still have much to learn. That’s why I like to link Astrology, Psychology and Theology – it gives me a deeper perspective of what each is trying to say. I’m not perfect or even my ideas are nor very polished but I think it is helpful to explore the idea of us having 3 minds; 3 sides of us that have different functions to them. God created us in His image and throughout the Bible are references to our Nature, Soul, and Spirit - 3 in one. Here are some excellent treaties on the subject:

http://faithhopelove.net/SpiritandSoulandBody.html

http://royalcronquist.com/uploads/Dividing_the_Human_Spirit_Soul_and_Body.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?q=bod...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.openbible.info/topics/body_soul_and_spirit

Psychology is just starting to understand that we do indeed have Feelings, Emotions and Thoughts as part of our Psyche – they haven’t gotten a complete understanding of it mainly because they refuse to believe in the validity of Astrology or Theology.

What is the ego, what is its source and function? Does this differ from feelings, and if so how?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego

Egotism, an excessive or exaggerated sense of self-importance

From Dictionary.com we get this:
[FONT=&quot]E·go[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]noun,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] plural e·gos. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]2. Psychoanalysis . the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]3. egotism; conceit; self-importance: Her ego becomes more unbearable each day. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]4. self-esteem or self-image; feelings: Your criticism wounded his ego. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]5. ( often initial capital letter ) Philosophy . [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]a. the enduring and conscious element that knows experience. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]b. Scholasticism . the complete person comprising both body and soul. [/FONT]​

The dictionary says our Ego is made up of Feelings and Thoughts. Possibly, but doesn’t Astrology attribute the Self to our Sun Sign and isn’t that the part of us that is our individual, the “I”. That would indicate to me a Thinking type of nature or energy. I think therefore I am. I am this and I am that, type of attitude. I’ve heard that our Sun Sign has a need to Shine, a drive to be seen and heard, a need to be seen as important in the eyes of others. Aren’t those many of Leo’s traits? If we can agree that our Sun Sign is Leo-like in its function then we have to look to the known traits of Leo to help us see if indeed our Ego is in this part of us or in the Moon. And I think I’ve already shown that it is in the Sun Sign, the Thinking part of our Being.

Is our Moon ruled by Cancer? What traits does Cancer portray that would indicate to you or anyone else that Cancer’s can be Egotistical?

I’m all for a debate but when Libra’s come across as close-minded and one-sided it doesn’t add to the pleasure of it for me. I’m been compiling a list of traits of the Sign pairs and for Aries/Libra I’ve come to learn firsthand that Libra can be just as arrogant in its mannerism as Aries. How they present their information has much of the same cardinal energy that Aries gives out in its beliefs, a passion that is felt from Libra about the position they are “taking”. It’s disconcerting to me because most of what they defend (debate) is just taken on for the sport of it, that they don’t always totally believe in the info they are supporting. That Behavior makes it hard for anyone else to get an honest appraisal of the ideas they are trying to broaden and hone down. This is not meant as an attack on you Greybeard but I hope can you understand how it appears to us that don’t have a Libra on board to engage you with.

I am not saying in my threads that my ideas are perfect or the end product but that they are possibilities that may not have been thought of before. Progress is a process of building understanding and at this point in our society I feel very strongly that we don’t do enough study into how we humans relate to each other on a daily basis. With this planet getting more and more crowed it is now harder than ever before to escape from the “rub” of other personalities and I feel we are presently just applying “band-aids” to the new problems that keep happening to us on this planet. If we don’t change the direction our society is headed I think it’s all going to crumble and only us friendly Aquarians (ha) will be left to survive.

Our3minds.com
 

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greybeard

Well-known member
I will try to address your points one by one.

1, I asked you to show me Earth in the horoscope, to point to it. There was a reason for that, but you ignored my request. Taurus cannot be ruled by Earth, but I will defer any explanation until you decide you want to find out why I say this.

2. The rising sign is not Aries-like or Taurus-like. If this were true, then either Aries or Taurus would be the rising sign in all charts. Also, Taurus is a Fixed sign and Fixed signs have no "natural" contact with the Angles of a chart. They are the signs farthest removed from the nature of the Angles. Therefore Taurus would be a very unlikely candidate to typify the rising sign, which is Angular. The four angles are turning points and this implies Action and Change. That is why the angles are so important in predictive work; they are the most dynamic points in a horoscope. Taurus is the sign with the most inertia of all the signs.

3. I asked "what are feelings?" No answer. How can we assign planets to represent things if those things are ill-defined? Notice the horoscope; both signs and houses have precisely defined boundaries, and planets are "points", and points in their essential nature are precise.

4. True, we don't understand our own mind. That said, we have to do the best we can with what we have at hand. To push the question aside is evasive, and will never lead us to understand the mind (or anything else). People in the past asked tough questions and then explored possible answers. Again I ask, what is mind?

5. I got the idea about two clearcut phases of mental development while teaching English in Mexico. I had several classes of pubescent kids, and noticed that from one year to the next the quality of their mind had changed dramatically. Once I noticed that, I began watching carefully to see what I could learn about the mind, which is what teaching deals with. With regard to the academic study of psychology (the Hindus have an ancient system of psychology, much older than our western brand, and it is very effective) I offer you this quotation from Carl Jung: "Anyone who wants to know the human psyche will learn next to nothing from experimental psychology. He would be better advised to abandon exact science, put away his scholar's gown, bid farewell to his study, and wander with human heart through the world. There in the horrors of prisons, lunatic asylums and hospitals, in drab suburban pubs, in brothels and gambling-hells, in the salons of the elegant, the Stock Exchanges, socialist meetings, churches, revivalist gatherings and ecstatic sects, through love and hate, through the experience of passion in every form in his own body, he would reap richer stores of knowledge than text-books a foot thick could give him, and he will know how to doctor the sick with a real knowledge of the human soul." I am 70 years old; I have been to most of the places, lived most of the experiences Jung refers to, and have studied a lot about the mind to supplement that existential knowledge. I really don't think that lack of academic credentials disqualifies me as a "psychologist" (after all, I was a cab driver for many years, and cabs are anonymous and private places where people feel free to talk and where the variety of people is universal and experiences are often very dramatic). I think I can help "doctor the human soul" in those people who want to heal themselves, the reason for thinking this being that I have successfully doctored myself (a work in progress, of course.)

6. The dictionary is the best astrological textbook on the market. The old astrologers were meticulous in their choice of words and reference to the dictionary can teach much about astrology. But let's look at the "ego". Jung calls it the "persona" and this term refers to what he also calls "the ego complex." The word persona, from the old Greek, was originally a "mask" worn by actors on the stage. Over time the idea of mask was expanded to embrace the "role" the actor played. Like the old astrologers, Jung chose his word carefully. It is in this sense that the Ascendant, and not the Sun, represents the personal ego. The ego is a flexible complex of reactions and behaviors, constructed by the individual, whose function is to hide the real inner self from the outer world, to smooth over our relationships with it, and to procure what it is we need to survive and prosper in life, which is often inimical to our true inner self (which is what the Sun represents.) Astrology texts usually describe the Ascendant as signifying "how we see the world and how the world sees us," and it is our "persona." It is also the point of personal identity in the sense that it is "how we see ourself;" it is "who we think we are." It is also our "role in life." Medieval and renaissance astrologers were in general agreement that the Ascendant is the Point of Destiny: the destiny can be read at the Ascendant. It is a fact that the outcome (destiny) of anything is dependent on its beginning, and the Ascendant is the point of beginnings; it describes our physical birth. The ego, as shown at the Ascendant, is what most of us think of as "Me," and is the basis for the belief in the immortal personal soul, which is a delusion. The Ascendant does not survive our physical death.

Also, the Moon is not ruled by Cancer. Signs do not rule planets; planets rule signs. Planets are active, dynamic focii of energy. Signs are passive although powerful; they are domains and these domains are ruled by the active and energetic planets.

I have more Aquarius in my chart than you do, and less Libra. What is that about? And you should be aware that if Libra does play the devil's advocate, it is just that trait which opens new doors to thought. I did not ask you a single question without purpose.

Astrology is a formalized and well-structured system of thought. It provides a proven framework for us to hitch our thinking processes to so that we don't get lost in a vague and confused, murky realm of fuzzy thinking. Pre-Twentieth Century astrology provides us with ancient and well-tested methods and ideas that are solid in their foundations. Innovation is a good thing, but innovation for its own sake, tossing out the old simply because it is old, is unwise.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
The Earth is not its east horizon, but I was wrong about it being the point opposite the Sun. It's only the point opposite the (geocentric) Sun in heliocentric horoscopes.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
You spoiled the movie. You win the cigar. The Earth is at the center of the chart.

The charts commonly used for natal work are called "geocentric" charts, a dead giveaway.

I love Mark Twain.

Now then, what is the meaning of the Earth being at the center of the chart?

What is actually at the center of the chart is the exact time and place of the birth of the individual, which is revealed in the surrounding sky as the Angles of the chart. (Most astrologers use geocentric charts, which introduces an error of about 4000 miles into the chart, essentially of no consequence at astronomical scale. Some modern astrologers are using topocentric charts, which use the surface of the Earth for calculation in order to eliminate this built-in error. The error causes some distortion of postion for planets near the horizon -- especially the Moon, but not when high in the sky. Also note that it is quite possible for the degree of the ecliptic occupied by a planet to be located below [or above] the horizon even while the planet itself is visible above the horizon [or invisible below it] due to the planet's celestial latitude. In other words a planet's zodiacal longitude may place it in the 12th house while its mundane position is in the 1st, or vice-versa.)

Note that the Earth, in any horoscope, is surrounded by the entire cosmos. In other words, at the center of the universe. And because the horoscope depicts the Moment of your birth, it places You at the center of universe. And this is literally true because the center of the universe lies at all points within it (from the point of view of the Standard Cosmology.) And psychologically, for any individual, they must be the center of the universe; it is their only possible perspective or point of view. I am the center of my universe, and that is what the horoscope describes -- my universe.

This is also the reason that Earth cannot be ruler of Taurus. It is at center and is the subject of the cosmic influences. The sign rulers must be "out there;" it cannot be that the influenced exercises influence, except as it takes the influences into itself and then projects them into its environment. I suppose we could argue this on a philosophical/abstract basis, but in any practical and useful application of astrology it is a given that the Earth (the native of the chart) is influenced and formed by the entire surrounding universe acting on it according to the arrangement of the universal factors (signs, planets and aspects) among themselves, and their angles of incidence (houses) upon the Earth. This apart from the fact that the sign rulerships are long-established, well-tested and proven; there is no good reason to change things. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The system of sign rulerships by planets according to their distance from the Sun (and consequently their velocity through the zodiac) was introduced by the Greeks (Alexandrian, probably) in the 3rd century BC.
 
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Leorising98

Active member
I have a question about my rising sign... My Rising sign is in Leo, but my ascendant is trine to saturn. Does that mean saturn is in my first house?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
That means "Saturn is trine the Ascendant." Saturn is "in the house" it actually occupies, which will affect its meaning in "reading" the trine to the Ascendant.
The Ascendant is the "Point of Destiny" in any horoscope, and is the single most important factor; it is the most individualized of horoscope factors, applies most specifically to YOU because it depends on your exact time of birth.

Things affecting the Ascendant, in order of power, are:

1. Rising Planets. Basically this means planets actually in the First House. More technically, planets in the 12th House within about 12 degrees of the Ascending Degree and planets in the First House within 20 degrees of the Ascending Degree, and then any planet actually in the First House, even if further than 20 degrees from the Ascendant. The closer to the Ascending Degree the more powerful and influential in the life.

2. Planets in aspect to the Ascendant. [your Saturn]. You will judge their respective power by closeness of aspect, house from which they come, sign, condition of the lord of that sign, etc.

3. The Lord of the Horoscope. This is generally the planet that rules the Ascending Sign (although some astrologers will use the almuten figuris, which is the most powerful planet in the Ascending Degree judged by a complex set of essential and accidental dignities). This planet (sign lord or almuten) is then examined closely by sign and state of that sign's lord, house, aspects and so on. In your horoscope the Lord of the Horoscope is Sun because he is ruler of Leo.

So, to "read" your Ascendant you must take into account both Saturn and the Sun. Before you consider the trine itself you will want to examine Saturn's meaning as modified by the sign he occupies (Aries or Sagittarius, probably), the cosmic state of the lord of that sign (Mars or Jupiter), the house Saturn is in plus the lord of the house. Saturn is in his Detriment in Leo (and in his Fall in Aries, not so much weakened if in Sagittarius), so that the "good influence" of the trine aspect is somewhat reduced. In any case the natural or intrinsic qualities of Saturn will be of consistent benefit to you as far as your general life course and your physical constitution, which are things "ruled" by the Ascendant.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Soooooo everything I've learned and am trying to help others understand is because I have a Jupiter in the first house? I can see I have the desire to inspire but the rest of my understandings, I'm sure, are the product of my Mix of "Personal" planets and how I developed through them. A Life creates art type of response.

Greybeard I don't understand the point of your reply because your statement doesn't make any reference to what I was trying to say.

our3minds.com
That diagram is not accurate. I dont know where you got it??
You need to load your natal chart for us to make any real comment.
Feelings are connected to our Moon sign. The rising sign is the filter through which we see everything. Jupiter in the 1st house is only a fraction of the influence you are under.
 

Leorising98

Active member
That means "Saturn is trine the Ascendant." Saturn is "in the house" it actually occupies, which will affect its meaning in "reading" the trine to the Ascendant.
The Ascendant is the "Point of Destiny" in any horoscope, and is the single most important factor; it is the most individualized of horoscope factors, applies most specifically to YOU because it depends on your exact time of birth.

Things affecting the Ascendant, in order of power, are:

1. Rising Planets. Basically this means planets actually in the First House. More technically, planets in the 12th House within about 12 degrees of the Ascending Degree and planets in the First House within 20 degrees of the Ascending Degree, and then any planet actually in the First House, even if further than 20 degrees from the Ascendant. The closer to the Ascending Degree the more powerful and influential in the life.

2. Planets in aspect to the Ascendant. [your Saturn]. You will judge their respective power by closeness of aspect, house from which they come, sign, condition of the lord of that sign, etc.

3. The Lord of the Horoscope. This is generally the planet that rules the Ascending Sign (although some astrologers will use the almuten figuris, which is the most powerful planet in the Ascending Degree judged by a complex set of essential and accidental dignities). This planet (sign lord or almuten) is then examined closely by sign and state of that sign's lord, house, aspects and so on. In your horoscope the Lord of the Horoscope is Sun because he is ruler of Leo.

So, to "read" your Ascendant you must take into account both Saturn and the Sun. Before you consider the trine itself you will want to examine Saturn's meaning as modified by the sign he occupies (Aries or Sagittarius, probably), the cosmic state of the lord of that sign (Mars or Jupiter), the house Saturn is in plus the lord of the house. Saturn is in his Detriment in Leo (and in his Fall in Aries, not so much weakened if in Sagittarius), so that the "good influence" of the trine aspect is somewhat reduced. In any case the natural or intrinsic qualities of Saturn will be of consistent benefit to you as far as your general life course and your physical constitution, which are things "ruled" by the Ascendant.

I re-read my chart and the degree number is 3.34. So its close to my ascendant?
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I re-read my chart and the degree number is 3.34. So its close to my ascendant?

A trine aspect is about (depending on the orb) 120* of difference. Unless you are working with a house system that allows 120* for two houses (I haven't seen one, but who knows?) a planet trine the ASC will never be able to be in the same house as the ASC. May I suggest posting your chart in the RMC forum, and asking these questions there? I see that you started this thread

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40951

But it would be easier to ask questions and get answers if members could see what you are looking at.
 

Our3Minds

Well-known member
That diagram is not accurate. I dont know where you got it??
You need to load your natal chart for us to make any real comment.
Feelings are connected to our Moon sign. The rising sign is the filter through which we see everything. Jupiter in the 1st house is only a fraction of the influence you are under.

Claire19,
The attached diagram is my own creation based on My impression of the Signs based on the traits that belong to each. What about it is inaccurate?

A link to my chart is in my Signature.

If you look in any dictionary they link Feelings and Emotions together but I think there is a difference. Feelings are an inner bodily reaction to an outside stimuli. How they differ, IMO, is that Emotion is an Outwardly Expression of what we have felt of those Feelings. Many of us don’t always emote what we are Feeling inside and if we hold unto those feelings they can fester and cause our bodies to be ill-at-eased (diseased). But Emotions can be expressed without Feeling. If you look at our Emotions and how we express ourselves - we can be calm and explain how we may have been hurt by what you may have said or we can put a lot of Feeling behind our voice and say stuff such as you B...... you did that on purpose or we can even add tears into the mix to show our Feelings are behind what we are expressing.

If you've ever seen those cartoons with the Devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other - that IB is how we operate inside of our Mind. It is a constant exchange between the three - showing me that we have 3 sides to us trying to express their own ideas about what is happening to us at the time. Freud gave us 3 sides to the psyche, Jung also. In the Bible we read about our body, Soul and Spirit, each with a different function or focus inside our Mind. Psychology is saying we have a Feeling, Emotion and Thinking side to us so I believe (IB) we can discover more about ourselves by linking Feelings to our Rising Sign, Emotions to our Moon and Thinking to our Sun.

thus our3minds.com
 

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tsmall

Premium Member
You spoiled the movie. You win the cigar. The Earth is at the center of the chart.

The charts commonly used for natal work are called "geocentric" charts, a dead giveaway.

I love Mark Twain.

Now then, what is the meaning of the Earth being at the center of the chart?

What is actually at the center of the chart is the exact time and place of the birth of the individual, which is revealed in the surrounding sky as the Angles of the chart. (Most astrologers use geocentric charts, which introduces an error of about 4000 miles into the chart, essentially of no consequence at astronomical scale. Some modern astrologers are using topocentric charts, which use the surface of the Earth for calculation in order to eliminate this built-in error. The error causes some distortion of position for planets near the horizon -- especially the Moon, but not when high in the sky. Also note that it is quite possible for the degree of the ecliptic occupied by a planet to be located below [or above] the horizon even while the planet itself is visible above the horizon [or invisible below it] due to the planet's celestial latitude. In other words a planet's zodiacal longitude may place it in the 12th house while its mundane position is in the 1st, or vice-versa.)

Note that the Earth, in any horoscope, is surrounded by the entire cosmos. In other words, at the center of the universe. And because the horoscope depicts the Moment of your birth, it places You at the center of universe. And this is literally true because the center of the universe lies at all points within it (from the point of view of the Standard Cosmology.) And psychologically, for any individual, they must be the center of the universe; it is their only possible perspective or point of view. I am the center of my universe, and that is what the horoscope describes -- my universe.

This is also the reason that Earth cannot be ruler of Taurus. It is at center and is the subject of the cosmic influences. The sign rulers must be "out there;" it cannot be that the influenced exercises influence, except as it takes the influences into itself and then projects them into its environment. I suppose we could argue this on a philosophical/abstract basis, but in any practical and useful application of astrology it is a given that the Earth (the native of the chart) is influenced and formed by the entire surrounding universe acting on it according to the arrangement of the universal factors (signs, planets and aspects) among themselves, and their angles of incidence (houses) upon the Earth. This apart from the fact that the sign rulerships are long-established, well-tested and proven; there is no good reason to change things. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The system of sign rulerships by planets according to their distance from the Sun (and consequently their velocity through the zodiac) was introduced by the Greeks (Alexandrian, probably) in the 3rd century BC.

I actually fell asleep last night thinking about some of the very things this post says. It would be an interesting discussion about how, if the Earth/native is at the center of the chart, the only aspects that actually go thru the center are oppositions and inconjuncts, and other ideas. But this thought occurred to me...if the earth is the center, in the two dimensional chart every planet is the same distance away from the center. I know that modern astrology gives feelings to the Moon, but isn't it really much more than that? Every modern astrology book I have read describes aspects between planets other than the Moon as producing certain feelings/emotions in the native. So, if I had to pick, I would say everything needs to be taken into consideration in order to talk about how someone "feels." Not to mention that those feelings will change from moment to moment, or aspect to aspect, or even situation to situation.

Just my little thoughts...
 
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