Saturn conjunct Pluto- Question, Transit

smilingsteph

Well-known member
Hello all!

If I look at Pluto natally, I am pretty lucky:
Trines Sun, Mercury and the ASC
It sextiles Neptune and my MC

With Saturn forming a conjunct to Pluto via transit, will I have an easier time????
as Saturn will too form some of these nice connections with the planets above....

I am worried as you all know, my Saturn return was pretty awful.
Natally, Saturn does some awful things to my chart and when it went into a return it made squares and oppositions to everything (dramatic, but it felt like that).

Does anyone have any advice here?
I have read some great threads here regarding Pluto Saturn conjuncts in transits, but I am wondering if mine will be any easier???

I am also having issues dealing with what chart system to use.
If I look to the equal house, my pluto goes into the 8th house...
If I go placidus then it stays in the 7th house...

For ease of explanation:
Pluto in the 7th can mean power struggles, transformation, rebirth, death. When such a force as Pluto conjuncts with Saturn we are looking at a restructuring of these things and perhaps more concentration to the 7th house or 8th house issues.
I have read as well that if I dont allow for Pluto's powers to be released under the constraints of Saturn then Pluto will with a powerful force release these volcano like energies.

I am also wondering if then Pluto is in the sign of Scorpio and Saturn is in the sign of exhalted Libra, then will Saturn win out in this battle.

My life has undergone so much transformation already, and I am in the middle of purchasing a home (which is 8th house territory- Pluto 8th house equal) I am really scared.
I also just want to be able to relax and find solace that I will have a little peace now, after that nasty return.

Thank you so much!
 

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R4VEN

Well-known member
Steph, I have had this transit of tr Saturn conj natal Pluto occur twice so far in my life. Also, I need to preface what I am about to say with an insight I have only had this year - since my 2nd Saturn Return - and that is that as I get older I am learning to appreciate Saturn. I used to be so scared, so confronted, so wiped out by Saturn. And then I learned what he was up to, and now my view has changed.

I also have natal Pluto in the 7th, conj my 8th house cusp - but not as closely conjunct as is yours. Natal Pluto is also conj my Sun, which makes any transit of natal Pluto quite personal.

My experience of tr Saturn conj natal Pluto is that Saturn forced me to get close to Pluto, and to use it, and use it wisely.

The first time tr Saturn conj my natal Pluto was when my 2nd child was born, and this pretty much said to me: Now you have done what you had to do with this man, so now it is time to move on! I took another 8 years to leave (Pluto rules my 11th house of long-term goals and integration into the collective). My main excuse was that I was not financially prepared for anything other than staying where I was.

The 2nd time was just over 3 years ago, and I had an experience of getting fully suckered in to the `reality' af a group of people who ended up being a bit crazy at the core of their behaviour. I chose to not see what was behind what I was feeling, so I got really taken for a ride.

Both experiences sound very Neptunian - and they were - but this is because I have tended to give my power away in a very Neptunian, she'll-be-right-mate kind of fashion. (My natal Neptune closely conjuncts Mars, so this is something of a stumbling block when trying to access the power for change.) I believe that at both times in my life, Saturn was pushing me to take control of my life by firstly getting real!!!!! And both times I dithered away and didn't want to look at the truth.

Perhaps, having already experienced your Saturn Return, you will be well-equipped to `read' Saturn, Steph. This time in your life is surely going to be about that house and that mortgage, and your relationship, of course. I suspect, also, that tr Pluto being in Cap will ensure that you `keep it real'.
 

EJ53

Banned
What's happening in the progressed chart at the time of the TSaturn conjunction with NPluto?.......[I think PJupiter is sextile NSun, energising the natal Pluto/Sun trine/Jupiter quintile......and maybe PMars is sextile Njupiter.....but I cannot see clearly enough to be sure.]
 
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smilingsteph

Well-known member
Hi EJ:
Here is the progressed chart for today,
I am not sure when this transit will exactly take place considering orbs and stuff...

That is what I was wondering as well....
Only with the natal chart, I guess it will be better to look at the progressed chart.....
I have trouble doing this...

Anything else that would be needed here?

R4VEN-
I thank you so much for your reply and your own experience, it really helps when a personal experience is given. I have been reading others transits and they seem like many did a lot of changing during this period of life.
I think if someone said "you will have another saturn return" I would probably take this instead of the saturn pluto conjunction....
I think because I already feel pretty comfortable with that return, and I have no idea what to expect with this mess.
The house is what I am afraid of....
Also my relationship

I am a person who thinks about the negative, so when it doesent happen then I can be happy about it...so I will have some sort of backup plan.
Like my religion :)

I am so lost and confused right now. After that return, it has left me dizzy, spinning and just plain tired, without the ability to sleep.

EJ-
If you need anything more in the way of charts let me know :)
I appreciate you as well looking and helping me here...

I just thought I would escape this one :ninja:, being that natally pluto is well positioned, but maybe I too like everyone else need to feel pluto's powers on my shoulders....

A few thoughts on what might happen:
I will fall sick or injured, or my sig. other and we will not be able to make mortgage payments
My sig. other will leave me (because of my Saturn Return antics, lets just say John and Kate, I was as evil as Kate at times)
Another family member will die
I will lose my job (not so sure this is a 10th house thing)
I will need to find another career....

Can I cross any one of these off my list?
 

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smilingsteph

Well-known member
Thank you MD!!!
You are very kind...

I also got to thinking that I will have Saturn trine my natal sun, in transit and square my progressed sun...Achievements may come with hard work...
 

EJ53

Banned
I am not sure when this transit will exactly take place considering orbs and stuff...

You have Pluto at 16.34 Libra.....and, allowing a 1 degree orb on either side, the empheris shows Saturn moving over this point from 13th December 2010 to 12th March 2011 (forward then retrograde) and from 4th September 2011 to 22nd September 2011 (final forward pass).

So, the active day-for-a-year progressed charts at this time are those of the 24 months from your 31st to 33nd birthdays......2nd June 2010 to 1st June 2012.......[On astro.com, draw the chart for the day and time of birth......but for the years 2010 and 2011]

Then, can you confirm that the progressed chart for 2nd June 2010 shows Progressed Jupiter within 1 degree of a sextile with Natal Sun.....and Progressed Mars within 1 degree of a sextile with Natal Jupiter (and a square with Natal Moon)......as I cannot see this clearly on my screen.
 

EJ53

Banned
Steph said:
...how do I use/look at the progressed chart?

1. Major life events usually occur when progressed aspects to the natal chart are triggered by transits......and will always concern the lesson in the natal chart.

2. So, the day-for-a-year progressed chart enables us to identify the latent issues/lessons......[Natal Mars in Taurus/2nd is "active self-worth"...It's progressed sextile to natal Jupiter in Leo/6th prompts questions about personal power in the workplace......passed through the quintile to natal Pluto in Libra as "where do I stand with 7th+8th house partners."]...

... and transits indicate the nature and timing of events that bring the lesson.......[Natal Saturn in Virgo/7th will impart "disciplined thinking about partners", when it transits natal Pluto in 2010/2011.]

3. Because outer planets move slowly, their natal and progressed positions vary little throughout our lifetimes......so very close-orbed natal aspects made by outer planets will (usually) also appear as progressed aspects made by outer planets to those same natal planets......[This is particularly relevant to your Pluto, Steph.....Throughout the whole of your life, it's close-orbed natal aspects are also "progressed to natal" aspects......so, every transit of natal Pluto will bring a major life event concerning the lessons in the birthchart......making transformation almost inevitable.]

4. You might also find this link useful http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168403&postcount=5

EJ:smile:
 
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smilingsteph

Well-known member
EJ-
I must say that after reading this a few times over, :)

Question, to see if I understand this correctly:

So the influence on a transit will probably keep bringing the same lesson around with it? That is if it is a faster moving planet?

On a slower moving planet, we will most likely see a larger event (there will be structured transformation), and it will provide a greater change?

When I look at the natal chart with progressions and transits it looks a bit scary (hard to read). I see that pluto is progressed to the 10th house?

If I look at the chart with the progressions by themselves Pluto is in my 6th house, if the chart is a natal progressed, pluto hasnt moved but like a degree (that cant be right).

As I wish to understand my situation myself, as this applies to my life, I really would love to dive deeper into reading these charts.
I am confused though, ugg.

I couldnt open the link EJ...can you try to send it again? It went to a page that opened as though I was sending a message.

Still trying to figure this one out!

Thanks for the help still!

1. Major life events usually occur when progressed aspects to the natal chart are triggered by transits......and will always concern the lesson in the natal chart.

2. So, the day-for-a-year progressed chart enables us to identify the latent issues/lessons......[Natal Mars in Taurus/2nd is "active self-worth"...It's progressed sextile to natal Jupiter in Leo/6th prompts questions about personal power in the workplace......passed through the quintile to natal Pluto in Libra as "where do I stand with 7th+8th house partners."]...

... and transits indicate the nature and timing of events that bring the lesson.......[Natal Saturn in Virgo/7th will impart "disciplined thinking about partners", when it transits natal Pluto in 2010/2011.]

3. Because outer planets move slowly, their natal and progressed positions vary little throughout our lifetimes......so natal aspects made by outer planets will (usually) also appear as progressed aspects made by outer planets to those same natal planets......[This is particularly relevant to your Pluto, Steph.....Throughout the whole of your life, it's natal aspects are also "progressed to natal" aspects......so, every transit of natal Pluto will bring a major life event concerning the lessons in the birthchart......making transformation almost inevitable.]

4. You might also find this link useful http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168403&postcount=5

EJ:smile:
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
Hi Steph

I've got Pluto at 9 degrees Libra in the 9th house. Pluto rules my 11th house. I'm not so much worried about it, becoming friends with Saturn now... I am very interested in seeing what it will create. I was only 6 the first time it conjuncted, my Mum and I left the UK where I was born and still live, to live with her family in Canada for about half a year, then we came back. I've no idea what to expect this time! It wont happen until October 2010, then it makes some trines to my Venus/Mercury which I'm looking forward to. They rule my 10th, 5th, 7th and 9th houses, so Saturn may bring some stability to those areas. All I can imagine is it will put me in close contact with my philosophy about life, it might change the way I am studying.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Steph,

First off, the Plu-Sat transit is a generational one. Hence, consider the houses as well as the natal aspects that the Sat transit will set alive when looking for answers in your/someone's 'personal' chart. When you had your Sat return, your natal Sat-Moon (triggered stability/lack/realisation in connection with emotions, women in your life, esp mother figure; &look at the house-s the Moon rules and house-location), Sat-Sun (having to do with your own basic core/personality, self-expression, focus in life - these were put under test, perhaps you became more realistic in some way; again also look at the house the Sun rules and where it is placed); Sat-Mars (stability/discipline of energy, anger-issues, perhaps to do with your money/education - 2nd and 9th ruled by Mars) aspects were set alive.

When Sat conjuncts Pluto in the 8th, you have to then look at your natal aspects (which you already have). This time, your natal Pluto-Sun and Plu-Merc will be set alive and the house where Pluto is located in plus the houses the Sun and Mer rule and/or where they are placed will be of accentuated in some way. For instance, the Sun rules your 7th (relationships, spouse) and Merc your 4th house (family and home). When transit Sat triggers that 7th-house Pluto's trines to these planets (that are placed on the IC - family point), Saturn (stability) might stabilise these areas (even more). You see, I am also looking at that transit of Jup that will soon be entering your 1st house and going over the Asc-Dsc axis, and will highlight your 1st and 7th houses for quite some while. In your progressed chart (which is correct, btw), progressed Moon has been progressing over your 7th house for quite some time, and is also setting the very same natal Plu aspects alive. Now, if ya asked me, a wild guess (to not sound presumptous) would be that your 7th house (along with the 4th and the 1st) will be more and more in the spotlight in some way, and, perhaps, you might even make real progress in the 7th-house area.;) (Bookmark this thread and lemme know, please.) I have to admit, I am a bit excited currently, as I just got invited to a friend's wedding set for next year, a case, where I had also guessed about a year ago (though her question, at that time, had to do with her job).


;)AQ7
 

Caro

Well-known member
I have pluto in virgo in 10th house (conjunct uranus) so have just experienced this transit.

the whole of saturn in virgo has been difficult for me(since it shifted to libra this pressure has lifted for me- thankfully although now it is going into my 12th house) the actual transit over pluto - saw me pass my healing exam for which I felt I had to dig really deep(nearly deferred the exam until dec 2009 cos of my general feelings about this) I have an opposition natally with saturn in pisces conjunct chiron - with uranus currently in pisces and going over this conjunction.(Also have lots going on with my sun in aqua - neptune/chiron/jupiter)

I dont want to scare you but I have really had to face death over the last two years that of my friends ( some of them young). However since 2004 I have had a massive shift in my life in this direction. so maybe this is the way my life it meant to be going.

I have come to terms with saturn actually I did not really ever fear it. Pluto though is different and during this period I have (since 2004) I think i have got to grips with some of what pluto is about which is very powerful but something that can be used for good. Can also be used in otherways.

so maybe your awareness will really deepen during this period and you will challenge some of your own belief systems in relation to the areas of chart it highlights. as you have quite favourable aspects this could be a time of opportunity and the previous saturn return although unpleasant prepared you for this. gave you a kind of grace.

i hope that is helpful.
 

EJ53

Banned
...In your progressed chart (which is correct, btw)

Correct as at 27th November 2009.....but not the chart that will be active when Saturn transits natal Pluto in 2010/11.

My guess is that TSaturn conjunct NPluto will activate both the natal boomerang and the Pluto/Sun+Mercury/Jupiter configuration......producing an increased sense of self-worth, that empowers Steph in both personal and work-related partnerships.

Maybe that tough Saturn Return was a "trial-by-fire" preparation for some increased responsibility/transformation when Saturn conjoins Pluto......since the the latter looks to be a time of reward rather than further retribution.
 
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EJ53

Banned
EJ-I must say that after reading this a few times over......couldnt open the link...can you try to send it again? It went to a page that opened as though I was sending a message.......As I wish to understand my situation myself, as this applies to my life, I really would love to dive deeper into reading these charts.......I am confused though
Hi Steph,

My comment is confusing, but please persevere with your study of "progressions"......as these really do convert 2D "transit to natal aspects" to 3D.......(Just keep asking questions whenever I confuse, and I'll attempt to clarify.)

My original/erroneous link was to the "report post" shortcut......and should have been http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168403&postcount=5

____________________________________​
...So the influence of a transit will probably keep bringing the same lesson around with it? That is if it is a faster moving planet?
Each of our natal planets has an agenda/lesson, shown by the sign and house in which was located at the time of birth.......Thus your natal Pluto in Libra/7th+8th lesson might be about (say) "use and abuse of power in partnerships", whilst your natal Saturn in intercepted Virgo/7th may be teaching you to be discerning in personal relationships.......[As you know, the actual lesson of a planet is revealed by mindfully reviewing our life experiences.]

When a planet transits a natal planet, the lesson of the latter is temporarily focused on that of the former but in the natal house of the latter......Thus, a (discerning) Saturn transit over you natal Pluto might enable you to consider any potential "use and abuse of power in all partnerships" issues with more clarity than the natal Pluto/Neptune sextile might otherwise allow.

So, when the transit is over, we will be (hopefully) closer to understanding the lesson of the natal planet and awaiting further clarification when another transitting planet brings an opportunity to focus on the issue in a different way......Thus, transits keep on raising the transitted planets natal issue until we understand it......(When we understand it, the Law of Grace enables us to observe others grappling with the issue rather than continuing to do so ourselves.)

However, the contact also enables the transitting planet to learn something about it's own natal lesson......which is fedback at the time, and monitored when it aspects it's own natal position......So, let's say your TSaturn learned from the contact with NPluto to "not take others at face value"; monitors whether or not you have learned this (in relation to personal relationships) whenever it aspects it's natal location and finds that the lesson has not been learned......Then, at the Saturn Return, this "chicken comes home to roost" in the form of a difficult event (providing a final opportunity to learn the lesson or be "doomed" to repeat it in the next Saturn cycle).
________________________________________________________​
 

EJ53

Banned
On a slower moving planet, we will most likely see a larger event (there will be structured transformation), and it will provide a greater change?
Bear in mind that we are talking here about natal aspects whose orb is within those used for progressions.

By progression, slow moving planets (usually) move very little from their natal positions......Hence your progressed Pluto hasn't moved but like a degree from it's birthchart location, because the day-for-a-year progressed chart at age 30 shows each planet's position 30 days after birth.

Because of this, very close-orbed natal aspects made by slow moving planets are likely (but not always) to be the same as the "progressed-to-natal" aspects made by them......Thus, two of the natal/progressed/transit criteria for a "life-changing event" are (usually) met by the outer planet throughout the whole of our lives, needing only a transit to trigger a significant experience........So, we don't need to check the progressed chart to know that a transit to your multi-aspected natal Pluto will be significant but we always need to do so for transits to fast moving planets.......[Note for clarification : Your natal Sun/Pluto trine is too wide for Pluto to ever activate this by progression, but the Mercury/Pluto trine is permanently activated by progression.]

However, there may not be a "structured transformation" or a larger event.....just an opportunity for great change, particularly in those who are able to consciously respond to the unconscious influences of generational planets.

...When I look at the natal chart with progressions and transits it looks a bit scary (hard to read). I see that pluto is progressed to the 10th house?

I can't make sense of this, Steph......[edit : I see now that Pluto is transitting the natal 10th house]......Pluto will never progress to the natal 10th house......But, the astro.com "natal with progs and transits" chart does result in information overload......I'd use "Natal with transits", after first identifying the natal planets that are being triggered by progression (as they are the ones to focus upon).

.....If I look at the chart with the progressions by themselves Pluto is in my 6th house......

Yes, at 27th November 2009, Progressed Pluto is in Progressed 6th house and Natal 7th......

EJ:smile:
 
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EJ53

Banned
When Saturn begins it's transit over natal Pluto on 13th December 2010, progressed Pluto/Jupiter/Mars will activate the natal Pluto/Neptune/Uranus/Venus boomerang and the natal Pluto/Sun+Mercury/Jupiter configurations......as shown below :-
picture.php

[Note : Natal Moon will also be squared by progressed Mars and trined by transitting Pluto in Capricorn/natal 11th.]
 
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astro09

Well-known member
smilingsteph,

It is important to check on where this transit occur and what other houses and planets are linked. The well popular subject of transformation is highlighted. I experienced exactly that, a profound change in my food intake and my physical life-literally.

I had this transit of saturn going over Pluto-sun tight conj in virgo in my first H. I underwent into a diet and a never before physical excersise program. That was a marked transformation, I never had experienced such an active adult life combined with a discipline diet.

Whatever is that this bring to you, I hope you can take advantage of it.
 

Shanti

Well-known member
Hi

your saturn return was challenging due to saturn cojunct moon and squaring sun at the same time. This is quite heavy.
Coming transits look good.
There may be a natural tendency to worry as moon is with saturn(fears).

Now both saturn and progressed moon as cyclical timers is in 8th house. You are probably more attuned to your psychological depths than usual.
And there may me some transformations going on within you.
8th house phases may sometimes feel heavy as much inner compexes is activated coming to surface.
This is also due to t. puto trining moon/saturn causing a positive change in your life psychologically.

progressed moon will also trining 4th house planets from 8th signifying change of location and economical stuff, shared economy.

Good luck
 

smilingsteph

Well-known member
EJ, Aqua and Jerry-

Sorry for not replying to you here for some time. I had to sit and digest the information so that I can make some sense of it all!

This simple sentence helped me to make sense of it!

When a planet transits a natal planet, the lesson of the latter is temporarily focused on that of the former but in the natal house of the latter

I sat and thought about that and then looked at the chart, for a long time!

So here in my very simple terms are what I think may happen.

My Yod interpretation as Jerry pointed out.

I have the base of the yod with neptune in the 10th, pluto in the 7/8th and then the apex is in the 3rd house who is venus.

I think that once I was able to clear the path away from this awful Saturn return, I shed my old ways, my ways of thinking the grass is always greener in relationships, thinking it was my way or the highway and all the cliches you can think of.

So Saturn will be conjuncting pluto. Which will bring about concentration/duty to the deep changes that pluto can bring.
Pluto will affect my career (neptune) bringing a sense of duty there as well. Then my little venus in the 3rd house will feel find a sense of love through the duty implemented by saturn to the other houses, 7th and the 10th.
However, since a yod is never simple, the inconjuncts that venus has with neptune and pluto may see a sense of stability with Saturn, and the karmic changes I underwent with my return will aid this instability as well.

I also sense that the boomerang with Uranus (which opposes venus) will give me some trouble still wanting stability, yet wanting to be free as well. However, since the saturn return I have really let go of that side of myself, wanting to be stable within my relationships and settle down. I still think that the activation of the yod will bring about some bizarre circumstances because with Uranus one can never know what will happen. But I thrive a bit on drama so this may not drive me too crazy. :biggrin:

Which is why I think that Aqua is right on when it comes to me really wanting and recieving some stability within my relationships.

Synopsis-

I believe that I will see more power (pluto) duty (saturn) love (venus) and a bit of rebellion (uranus) within the areas of my relationships, career and home.

I also see that saturn rules my 4th house. So I think that this conjuction could mean that my home life will become much more stable and I will sense more duty there (as the house is being built in literal terms). I have never felt true homelife stability.

Again speaking about that Uranus in the yod, I think that all of this stability will come to play out, but the uranus rebellion could entail me going to school or doing more formal edcuation to better my career, home and relationships.

I have been deeply thinking about getting my masters degree, but still a thought until some of these details in my personal life get ironed out.

I am a slow person in growth, change, transformation. I accept change readily, now, after that Saturn return.
You couldnt get me to change my mind about anything, I was so stubborn!
What was introspection? I had no idea, always analyzing my moves rather than my emotions.
I still am having trouble crying, but I am much more compassionate and loving after this return.

The pluto jupiter mercury thing still brings about some nice connections and changes with my career (6th house), personal relationships, and the home.

I hope I understand this correctly. As I have said before, I believe astrologers can only help make sense of the chart, but it is up to the individual person to apply their lives to the information given.

I will keep you all posted....

Thank you all for applying your personal experiences to the thread, it helps me to visualize what can happen for me. Sharing personal stories is so wonderful :biggrin:

When Saturn begins it's transit over natal Pluto on 13th December 2010, progressed Pluto/Jupiter/Mars will activate the natal Pluto/Neptune/Uranus/Venus boomerang and the natal Pluto/Sun+Mercury/Jupiter configurations......as shown below :-

[Note : Natal Moon will also be squared by progressed Mars and trined by transitting Pluto in Capricorn/natal 11th.]
 

EJ53

Banned
Steph said:
...I hope I understand this correctly.

Your interpretation makes sense to me, Steph......I guess being able to think this clearly indicates that you've got over over the flu now.:love:
 
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