Intelligence

fullmoonlibra

Well-known member
I meant to post this link, I found it interesting perhaps some of you will too:

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/mercury-gemini-mercury-virgo-not-strong-intellect/

I just read about it.
Very interesting :smile:

"They seem to agree that Mer cury in a Car di nal sign indi cates an enthu si asm, fast grasp of things, and even skill in speech, while in a Fixed sign a deeper more seri ous search for truth and good advice is indi cated, both in con trast to Mer cury in a Com mon sign, which includes Virgo and Gem ini as well as Sagit tar ius and Pisces, and is indica tive of a small intel lect which is quick to anger and slow to under stand.* Addi tion ally, Abu Bakr, in a pas sage per tain ing to indi ca tions of quick ness to rage, noted Mer cury in one of his own domi ciles as an indi ca tion of insta bil ity.* These pas sages are sum ma rized*below."

Wow..
 
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byjove

Account Closed
Personally, I am of the opinion that there are not better or worse kinds of intelligence just different styles and different applications.

Gemini Mercury is very geared towards social intelligence and communication... to me, they seem flighty, voluble and superficial, but that's perfect for 'gift of the gab' types. There are roles and rewards in society for people with that kind of mind.

Pisces intelligence seems to be deeper and more tidal, but if harnessed for deep philosophical insight, can be very powerful, as evinced by some of our greatest thinkers having mercury in it's so called 'Detriment'.

Of course, aspects and house placements modify how able (or not) we are at harnessing whichever latent power is in our sign placing of Mercury.

People always say I'm an intelligent person, but I'll never be in Mensa. I fail IQ tests :lol: High verbal IQ, but terrible on math and logic.

I have Mercury in Libra btw

I agree about different kinds of intelligence, I'm in awe of creative and social intelligence especially.

In reply to the interesting link that Frank put, I started the debate, what do these findings mean for Mercury in Pisces interpretations? I hate to say it but this forum is filled with attacks on M in P and there is plenty of nonsense like 'I've M in Virgo so I'm super intelligent' 3 kinds of ridiculous that is and shows a poor understanding of natal astrology. But how in the world can we run with the idea of double downfall: detriment and fall and then have results showing M in P natives rank very highly in IQ tests? (above all but one or two signs).

As for math, logic etc. as you were mentioning, that's interesting M in Libra and you rank highly on verbal IQ...I've M in Pisces and despite having studied several languages in school and college, I rank poorly in verbal and maths, but got 93% in logic. I wonder how we'd all fair if we did a study in here...
 

Moog

Well-known member
I agree about different kinds of intelligence, I'm in awe of creative and social intelligence especially.

In reply to the interesting link that Frank put, I started the debate, what do these findings mean for Mercury in Pisces interpretations? I hate to say it but this forum is filled with attacks on M in P and there is plenty of nonsense like 'I've M in Virgo so I'm super intelligent' 3 kinds of ridiculous that is and shows a poor understanding of natal astrology. But how in the world can we run with the idea of double downfall: detriment and fall and then have results showing M in P natives rank very highly in IQ tests? (above all but one or two signs).

I'm thinking that perhaps the culture of the times that gave rise to the astrologically schema we all know dictated that certain kinds of behaviour (and by extension, astrology) were better than others. Most cultures seem to elevate certain kinds of people as 'ideals'.

I think this requires more historical knowledge of astrology than I have. Who put this schema together in the first place, and what was their rationale behind it? This is something I don't know. And perhaps it's lost and unknowable, buried in history.

As for math, logic etc. as you were mentioning, that's interesting M in Libra and you rank highly on verbal IQ...I've M in Pisces and despite having studied several languages in school and college, I rank poorly in verbal and maths, but got 93% in logic. I wonder how we'd all fair if we did a study in here...
Perhaps, put very simply, air sign Mercury symbolises intelligence that is verbally oriented. This makes sense to me, since the air triplicity is related to social exchange, and language is the means of communication.

I'd be keen to test and compare various things, maybe we could set up a group for testing various things and comparing charts with results?
 

byjove

Account Closed
I'm a water Mercury me, yet did well on logic.

Tests and compare? I like it. It depends on what exactly we might like to test and how then to do it. We could do a poll-type thing and/either. We could do multiple questions. It depends how scientific we wanted it to be. If, just a simple who and what are you, a poll would be a very way to do it.

Very good point on different perspective on things in the past. I'm afraid that pops another question into my head. Given that, and the fact that in some very scientific research conducted by a member on here shows the fall and detriment location of Mercury tests well in IQ scores, I sense the need for wide debate on all of this!
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Are these peeps actually active in Mensa? That would be another variable.

No one seems to want to respond, but if I saw these tests results without knowing what they were for, I would say that they were for people who try to make themselves feel more intelligent by going and joining a group. Uranus rules people who break off from society and go form their own groups so they aren't lonely. The Sun trine Mars or Jupiter increases your confidence, and confidence is not something people who want to make themselves look smart out of low self-confidence have. Of course there are aspects involved, but Mercury in Pisces would probably feel less confident in their ability to get through the details. I don't consider Mercury to rule intellect. Mercury rules processing and getting through the details, and processing is obviously required to have some kind of intellect, but there are people with IQs in the 200s who haven't done anything significant for philosophy or science, or anything besides breaking records on IQ tests. Mercury is in detriment and fall in Pisces because Pisces does not care about the details or rote work one bit. Mercury and Venus combined rule any kind of speaking or writing including casual conversation and texting. Jupiter rules luck which develops into superstition then religion then philosophy then science. Saturn rules logic because logic is a set of rules. I have very unorthodox ideas (as I usually do on everything) about intelligence :p "Imagination is more important than knowledge" might have originally been meant to translate more into "originality is more important than rote ability," the latter of which I'd agree with. Literally, imagination is obviously not more important than knowledge because knowledge is power.
 
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byjove

Account Closed
While I'm sure that's another dimension, I don't think it's necessary. If you reach that level, you reach that level, I don't think you've anything more to prove. I still agree that there are many types of intelligences and the IQ test is just one ugly way. So many types we can't test well.

I don't remember who posted this link but it's great food for thought, do give it a go:

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/mercury-gemini-mercury-virgo-not-strong-intellect/
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I'm sorry if I'm picking things apart too much:

If you believe that Mer*cury, planet of intel*lect, must bode well for the intel*lect in its own domi*ciles, Gem*ini and Virgo, then you are mistaken.
Mercury is the planet of articulation, not intellect. Articulation is often counter-productive to intellect because too much articulation can stop one from asking questions about the big picture, which in turn makes one more lazy about developing intellect on a higher level. Also, I do not have beliefs. I have ideas which I rationally prove or disprove. I do not disbelieve things which I cannot prove or disprove, I just ignore them for the time being. I find it ridiculous that most people have to know, or have to think they know.

I find the bit about Mercury through the modalities very interesting. I found this absolutely fascinating:

For those who don’t know, I use “dignity” for rulership, pertinence, and various qualitative considerations in my own astrological work, but I abhor the typical over-reliance on dignity in traditional circles for matters of strength and goodness of a planet, especially when it comes to the latter.

That, it's true, explains a lot. I wonder what the author of this does use...
 
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Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I've been wondering, what is the best sign for Mercury? I was initially going to say "definitely Capricorn" since Mercury in a Cardinal sign makes one exceedingly clever and Saturn experiences a Joy whenever Mercury is anywhere in Earth or Air, which would indirectly improve the condition of Mercury, but this would also apply to Aquarius which would have the advantage of being in the triplicity of Mercury (aka Air triplicity) by night. Libra is Cardinal and Aquarius is not, so it could also be Libra more than Aquarius. I'm just going to say Capricorn for the time being...
 

byjove

Account Closed
I hope there won't be another M in Aqua argument lol

Well that link we've been talking about for a bit now from the previous page suggested anything that adds to Mercury's quick movement and changeability is not good for it, and that includes air and anything mutable. If we agree with that argument, then earth is definitely a good choice as is fixed. That looks like Virgo has a good shot.

Continuing with the new ideas I read from that astrologer said that Virgo adds stability to Mercury, but certainly has nothing to do with expansive intellect, frequently the opposite, and M in Gemini is far worse - air, mutable etc. The astrologer and researcher points to particular Egyptian and Hellenistic sources to open the debate on this. I'm glad, since as we've seen with the research member Frank put forward M in it's fall and detriment proved one of the most consistent high IQ scores.

I'm advocating debate and discussion, I have no particular axe to grind! :tongue:
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I thought Mercury in Virgo is bad...

I think we should test the IQs of all the different Mercury signs. I don't think anyone has even remotely tested any signs besides the mutable ones and maybe Aquarius. I also think we should just look at the intellectual activity of all the different Mercury signs as well, because having an IQ doesn't mean you know how to use it. I still think Capricorn is the best sign for Mercury, especially if Air is bad for it.

Q: Is Mercury a malefic planet?
 
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Frank

Well-known member
Also, what is an experimental and a control group? It's been a while since I did any of that and have lost all vocabulary on that kind of research.

The experimental group are those that qualify for Mensa. The control group is randomized, shuffled data using the same demographic information as the experimental group.
 

Frank

Well-known member
No one seems to want to respond, but if I saw these tests results without knowing what they were for, I would say that they were for people who try to make themselves feel more intelligent by going and joining a group. Uranus rules people who break off from society and go form their own groups so they aren't lonely. The Sun trine Mars or Jupiter increases your confidence, and confidence is not something people who want to make themselves look smart out of low self-confidence have. Of course there are aspects involved, but Mercury in Pisces would probably feel less confident in their ability to get through the details. I don't consider Mercury to rule intellect. Mercury rules processing and getting through the details, and processing is obviously required to have some kind of intellect, but there are people with IQs in the 200s who haven't done anything significant for philosophy or science, or anything besides breaking records on IQ tests. Mercury is in detriment and fall in Pisces because Pisces does not care about the details or rote work one bit. Mercury and Venus combined rule any kind of speaking or writing including casual conversation and texting. Jupiter rules luck which develops into superstition then religion then philosophy then science. Saturn rules logic because logic is a set of rules. I have very unorthodox ideas (as I usually do on everything) about intelligence :p "Imagination is more important than knowledge" might have originally been meant to translate more into "originality is more important than rote ability," the latter of which I'd agree with. Literally, imagination is obviously not more important than knowledge because knowledge is power.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to respond instantly to every post.

As I said in the article, this is ONLY a test of the charts of those who qualify for Mensa - something measurable. You are placing your own psychological and value judgments while discounting the results of the study.
 
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Frank

Well-known member
I thought Mercury in Virgo is bad...

I think we should test the IQs of all the different Mercury signs.

Mercury through the signs (cntl/exp/diff):

Aries 7.67 / 7.46 / 2.8
Taurus 6.08 / 7.49 / -18.7
Gemini 7.94 / 9.13 / -13.0
Cancer 7.67 / 7.65 / 0.3
Leo 6.35 / 7.80 / -18.6
Virgo 9.79 / 8.17 / 19.7
Libra 8.47 / 9.05 / -6.4
Scorpio 10.05 / 8.84 / 13.8
Sagittarius 6.88 / 8.28 / -16.9
Capricorn 11.11 / 9.58 / 16.0
Aquarius 7.94 / 8.31 / -4.5
Pisces 10.05 / 8.25 / 21.8
 

byjove

Account Closed
Frank, my mind keeps pressing the same question: what does this mean for our understanding of Mercury placements for e.g.? How could the fall and detriment of M have such results? Does that indicate we are likely misinterpreting something about dignity and debility? The forum is rife with attacks on Pisces Mercury, yet take a look at these scores (as just one example of intelligence assessment of course, how do we measure creativity etc. in this way).
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Mercury is flitty like Air, and Air and Water are enemies. What is more Watery than Pisces to negate all that flightiness? I still don't understand how Virgo was higher than Capricorn. Someone needs to examine this experiment and also do some more experiments.

I'm still wondering if Mercury is a malefic. I bet it is and that's why Uranus is malefic and behaves the way it does. I mean, all the other malefics need to be "out of their element" in order to work right. Mars is nocturnal, Saturn is diurnal...

"Remember it's true, dignity is valuable
But our lives are valuable too"
 
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MSO

Well-known member
Mercury through the signs (cntl/exp/diff):

Aries 7.67 / 7.46 / 2.8
Taurus 6.08 / 7.49 / -18.7
Gemini 7.94 / 9.13 / -13.0
Cancer 7.67 / 7.65 / 0.3
Leo 6.35 / 7.80 / -18.6
Virgo 9.79 / 8.17 / 19.7
Libra 8.47 / 9.05 / -6.4
Scorpio 10.05 / 8.84 / 13.8
Sagittarius 6.88 / 8.28 / -16.9
Capricorn 11.11 / 9.58 / 16.0
Aquarius 7.94 / 8.31 / -4.5
Pisces 10.05 / 8.25 / 21.8

Can someone explain this? Lol I feel like I'm missing out on some quality information!
 

MSO

Well-known member
Mmmm I don't understand what the three groupings of numbers represent. I get that they're control group, etc. But what are the numbers measuring? Percentages?
 
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