Intelligence

Frank

Well-known member
I still don't understand how Virgo was higher than Capricorn.

Just because the results don't fit in with YOUR expectations it doesn't mean they are incorrect. In fact, there's something amiss if one can't adjust one's thinking when presented with evidence that goes against one's expectaions.

Someone needs to examine this experiment and also do some more experiments.

Feel free to do so.

I'm still wondering if Mercury is a malefic. I bet it is and that's why Uranus is malefic and behaves the way it does.

Mercury is naturally neutral and and only becomes benefic or malefic based on its dignity, placement and aspects. Mercury's nature has nothing whatsoever to do with Uranus's nature.
 

Frank

Well-known member
Mmmm I don't understand what the three groupings of numbers represent. I get that they're control group, etc. But what are the numbers measuring? Percentages?

Yes, as explained in the article, they are percentages.
 

Frank

Well-known member
Frank, my mind keeps pressing the same question: what does this mean for our understanding of Mercury placements for e.g.? How could the fall and detriment of M have such results? Does that indicate we are likely misinterpreting something about dignity and debility? The forum is rife with attacks on Pisces Mercury, yet take a look at these scores (as just one example of intelligence assessment of course, how do we measure creativity etc. in this way).

No, it just means some people simplify too much. "Detriment = BAD!!!" - no matter what the condition of the dispositor is, the house placement, sect, aspects, etc.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Mercury is naturally neutral and and only becomes benefic or malefic based on its dignity, placement and aspects. Mercury's nature has nothing whatsoever to do with Uranus's nature.

Uranus's nature has a lot to do with Mercury's. I still sort of think Mercury is malefic but too fast to normally have any lasting damaging effects. Really, its effects are felt most beneficially in the same was as the malefics' effects are, not as the benefics' or even "neutral" Sun's and Moon's.

No, it just means some people simplify too much. "Detriment = BAD!!!" - no matter what the condition of the dispositor is, the house placement, sect, aspects, etc.

Some other people when I was a beginner: "All of your planets are weak except the very strong Moon and moderate Mercury and Venus."
Me now: My chart is ruled by "weak" Saturn, not the Moon...
 

MSO

Well-known member
Is this experiment difficult to do? I'm wondering if it can be done again with a completely different set of people. I want to know if the results will be similar, as there can be other factors not accounted for, such as Mercury being oriental/occidental or slow/stationary.
 

byjove

Account Closed
Frank, consider this over-simplification then, I think there is a major error in modern astrology. This kind of simplification for me is on par with others reactions when I mention astrology - they think Sun signs and newpapers. A poor connection I think.

Similar reading if anyone interested:


Rethinking Mercury in Pisces
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28241


Your Mercury and Your Learning Style
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14944


Reload this Page RESEARCH - A Simple Mercury Retrograde Study
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22905
 

Frank

Well-known member
For example, take a look at the chart of a brilliant and famous astrologer, Reinhold Ebertin (attached).

He has Mercury in Pisces. However, what else is that Mercury doing? Mercury's dispositor is Jupiter, placed in Capricorn on the Capricorn ascendant, whose dispositor is Saturn, also in Capricorn in Domicile. Mercury is also widely trine the MC and sextile Saturn, reinforcing the Mercury/Saturn connection. Mercury is also closely square Pluto, and part of his legacy is that some seem him as rather harsh and pessimistic for their tastes.

One can't just go by a single position in ANY chart and make a judgement on it in stasis, "cookbook astrologers" notwithstanding.
 

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Frank

Well-known member
Is this experiment difficult to do? I'm wondering if it can be done again with a completely different set of people. I want to know if the results will be similar, as there can be other factors not accounted for, such as Mercury being oriental/occidental or slow/stationary.

Unfortunately, the program I did the research on no longer exists as a viable program. I only have it installed on one old computer that I hardly ever use and lost the installation disk in a move last year. I intend to attempt to restore everything to get it functioning on my latest computers, but I just don't have much time to sit down and do the work.
 

MSO

Well-known member
Unfortunately, the program I did the research on no longer exists as a viable program. I only have it installed on one old computer that I hardly ever use and lost the installation disk in a move last year. I intend to attempt to restore everything to get it functioning on my latest computers, but I just don't have much time to sit down and do the work.

Ah, that's understandable. One more thing, did you happen to run each of the Moon's positions as well, the way you did with Moon in Aquarius?
 

Frank

Well-known member
Ah, that's understandable. One more thing, did you happen to run each of the Moon's positions as well, the way you did with Moon in Aquarius?

I tested every possible combination - but only gave the ones that were significant. If I ever get the program operating again, I'll look at all of them.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I think you should also measure intelligence in different areas rather than just IQ. If I can come to the conclusion that Mercury in Capricorn is the best based on decent evidence, then it's going to be the best for something even if it doesn't have quite as high of an IQ as Mercury in Pisces. I actually have it and I didn't think it was very good of a position at all until I analyzed it. I'm not a genius (which is an IQ score :tongue:) but there are plenty of mental (of the mind, not psychotic, but the latter is true too) things I can do that "geniuses" can't.

When were you a beginner?

A few months ago when I didn't know what I was doing but seriously doubted the results some people, with such certainty, told me. I have 2 planets in detriment and 2 in fall and they all get decent scores last time I checked once all other factors are accounted for. Considering all my planets are angular or in the 2nd house except Pluto and there are a heck of a lot of receptions and no retrogrades, that's to be expected.
 
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Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Do you use Uranus and Neptune?

I use Pluto like Mars. Pluto, like Mars, can be pretty annoying, 'specially with all the romanticsism (no typpo)...
 

Frank

Well-known member
I think you should also measure intelligence in different areas rather than just IQ.

OK, then - give me an experimental group of at least 300 charts with verified accurate and documented birth data with times that objectively meet a criteria that might be described as "intelligence". Let me know when you've gathered the data.


A few months ago when I didn't know what I was doing but seriously doubted the results some people, with such certainty, told me.

No offense intended, but you are still a beginner.

When I first encountered astrology as a young child and read astrology books voraciously I didn't even consider myself a beginner.

I considered myself a beginner when I began calculating charts by hand at age 16 (there were no astrology computer programs or the internet back then) - until I had calculated and delineated around a thousand charts.

Once I had my Saturn Return, I finally didn't consider myself a beginner anymore.

Please don't get ahead of yourself. Learn the craft and don't make pronouncements based on what you THINK something SHOULD mean.

Learn as much as you can from those who have come before you. Become a sponge. Some of the information you absorb will be useful, some will not. Develop your filters to separate the useful from the useless by actual experience, not from preconceived notions.

I wish you all the best in your journey of learning.
 
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