Tarot card info

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Since I am not very adept in the more complex aspects of astrology, I'm offering my services in the realm of reading the tarot. (Trying to keep the karmic balance going in this forum :D )
So in essence, if any one has any questions about card meanings and wants to chat, maybe we could start here?!

I have been studying tarot for nine years and am pretty comfortable with them. I would be happy to help.
 

Lapis

Well-known member
jenluvsblackcat,

Great idea. I'm not very familiar with the Tarot but I'd love to see the 22 Major Cards matched up with astrological signs and/or planetary energies etc. Could you make us a list of what Card carries what astrological and planetary energies?
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Here!

Fool- Uranus/Air
Magician- Mercury
High Priestess-Moon
Emperor- Aries
Empress- Venus
The Hierophant- Taurus
The Lovers- Gemini
Chariot- Cancer
Strength- Leo
The Hermit- Virgo
Wheel of Fortune- Jupiter
Justice- Libra
The Hanged Man- Neptune/Water
Death- Scorpio
Temperance- Sagittarius
The Devil- Capricorn
The Tower- Mars
The Star- Aquarius
The Moon- Pisces
The Sun- Sun
Judgement- Pluto/Fire
The World- Saturn
 

Lapis

Well-known member
Most excellent jen! Thanks so much for this info. It's been a long time but it's great seeing this info layed out like this. :)
 

Draco

Well-known member
Hi Jen,

Thanks for this thread! I had been thinking for some time about starting a Tarot thread but I wasn't sure about it, so I'm glad to see it has arisen. You read my mind. :)

A reason that I hesitated to start a Tarot thread, is that I thought it would lead to the inevitable quagmire of confusion regarding astrological correspondances to the Tarot.

I have worked with Tarot for about a dozen years now, and believe me, I have tried every which way to correspond the 22 cards neatly with astrological symbolism - and found that nothing works, not if we are trying to succinctly to attribute one just one astrlogical symbol to one Major card.

The set of correspondences you provide above are Crowley's correspondances from The Book of Thoth. This is one of numerous methods of assigning astrology to the cards, and by far the most publicised and the system I worked with for years before I changed my mind.

I found the Crowley correspondences unworkable. Take the Moon for example, Crowley corresponds the Moon to the Priestess, which would seem very odd in that there is actually a card called 'The Moon' (hint, hint).

He attributes Virgo, the symbol of the undefiled young girl who is yet a virgin, to the Hermit, the symbol of the gnarled up, doddering old man, which would seem quite to the contrary. Virgo would seem more fitting to the Priestess, in this sense at least.

Crowleys attribution also spoils the symbolism of the sets of the complementary opposites in the cards. For example, the Sun and Moon are obviously a set of dynamic opposites in the Tarot, so why does Crowley upturn the applecart by corresponding them with the Sun and Pisces, which have little to do with each other. If he had attributed them to the Sun and Moon, or Pisces and Virgo, then this would make more sense as they are complementary opposite within astrology, as are the Sun and Moon cards in Tarot. Why is the Empress Venus, but Emperor Aries? If one was Venus one Mars, or one Aries and one Libra then fine.

Of course I understand that Crowley was also trying to correspond both the cards and astrology to the hebrew alphabet at the same time, but I don't speak, know, work or live with hebrew and even if I did, his attributions still feel erroneous.

I just don't like these attributions because some correspondences to some cards seem just plain inappropriate, and it disturbs the harmony of complementary pairs or groups of cards.

(I have Mercury in the middle of Libra, and the most dignified planet in my chart, Saturn, is conjunct this Mercury, and of course as a Virgo, you might see why the harmonic and evenly balanced ordering of things is pretty much essential to me :? ).

Given that we have 12 signs and 10 planets to work with in astrology, it is extremely tempting to try to neatly correspond these to the 22 glyphs of the Tarot. I have spent many a sleepless night in the past trying to achieve the perfect correspondance but any attempt always fails. There are cards, signs and planets that would fit into each other in too many myriad ways. There are always remainders to which one thing can't properly be corresponded to the other without upsetting everything else.

I came to the conclusion that if we try to neatly define a planet/sign correspondence to each individual card, then it stifles both our understanding of astrology and our understanding of the Tarot, the former in which I am a novice, the latter in which, I dare say, I am expert.

For example, in Crowleys associations, the Empress is Venus and Venus is the Empress, but in astrology, Venus is not always queenly or maternal, in Tarot the Empress is not always sweet, delicate or Venusian. This is because in astrology the nature and qualities of Venus depend so much on what all the other planets are doing and where all are arranged around the zodiac, and in Tarot the nature and quality of what the turning of the Empress means is coloured so strongly by the fall of the rest of the cards in the layout.

This is why I came to understand, uncomfortable as it may feel, that we cannot attribute astrological tones in the cards until they have been layed out and observed, and the astrological correspondences appropriate to each card will change, layout after layout.

To attribute single astrological symbols to single cards, works well if you are a beginner, and the cards are only read one by one by one, without comparing and contrasting them against one another, grouping them, reading between the cards and exploring the relationship between all the cards in the spread as one single, coherent, unified entity.

Each card has each and every astrological symbol potentially within it's own symbolism, some of these astrological will usually be more prominent in some cards than in others, but it isn't until they are layed out that we can discern what these are.

To illustrate this example, lets take The Hermit. In a sense he is Lunar, for he is a wanderer, he is especially the waning Moon for he is old and haggered and retreats from the light of day. In another sense we might see him as Jupiterian for he is wise, sage-like, a venturer who expands beyond his bounds in search of something greater. In another sense he may be Saturn, old, mean and miserly, a loner who shuns the world to walk alone. These are but three examples, there is no reason why you can't go through all the signs and planets and think of the ways in which they can tie with every Major card. Having considered this, then suppose that The Hermit turns up in a layout right next to Death, or The Hanged Man, then these cards would reinforce each others Saturnian qualities. If the Hermit turns up next to The Wheel and The Hierophant, then perhaps these cards are reinforcing each other's Jupiterian natures, bringing out the more jovial and expansive nature of the now happy-go-lucky Hermit.

If the Chariot lay next to Emperor/Tower, then its Martian characteristics are reinforced, such as an army tank, a vehicle of war, but if it lands next to Hermit or Magician, then perhaps its more Mercurial characteristics are brought to the fore, as the means to get from A to B.

There are a million examples I could give, but the point I am making is that to try to correspond each single astrological key, tempting as it is, singly with each Major card, will ultimately come to restrict the imagination rather than enrich it.

The Sun and Moon, Star and Wheel are interesting cards astrologically. When the Sun appears with the Wheel, it may have something to say about annual events or anniversaries, as it takes the sun one year to wheel around us. The Moon and The Wheel: monthly cycles. The Star and the Wheel, it depends on what the surrounding cards suggest which star it is. If the Star is with cards that reinforce a Saturnian theme, then with The Wheel it speaks of a cycle of 30 years, if with cards that bring out its Mars qualities, two years.

If the Sun and Moon appear next to each other, perhaps this suggests a new Moon, a new start. If the Sun and Moon are opposite each other, this might suggest a full Moon, maturity, ripeness, maybe pregnancy. If the Moon lands to the left of the Sun, we might see it as a waxing influence indicating growth, progress, if to the right of the Sun it could be seen as a waning influence, decline, weakness.

There are so many more enriching ways to glean astrology in the Tarot, than the singular attribution of planet / sign = card.

Anyway, I've said my bit. Nice to know that there is another enthusiastic Tarotist around.

I look forward to the subsequent conversations on this thread. Cheers Jen.

Draco :wink:
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Draco,

To be honest, I never put much faith into the astrological systems that are assigned to each major card. :lol:
I just looked them up in a book and decided to post them. I've always gleaned my information from my gut reaction to the tarot spread. Something comes over you when you first lay out all the cards...you get that instant perception of the situation at hand. It feels like a hot wave that washes over your face and exits out the top of your head. Then suddenly, you hear yourself talking about what the cards mean and their relationships to one another.
However, I find it a heck of a lot easier to concentrate on readings for others than on my own questions. It takes time before you can accurately un-hook yourself from your desires in order to properly discern a reading,
(unless you are trying to identify YOUR core beliefs about something.)
Yay for Tarot!
Jen
 

Lapis

Well-known member
Draco, your post made me search through a group of 5 books called The Law Of One - by RA, a humble messanger of The Law of One 1982. In book Four I found the discussion of the Tarot according to the group of nonphysical beings that call themselves "RA" or the RA Group. Like I said already, I haven't studied the Tarot Cards much but from what you said, I wanted to share this. You and Jen might find this interesting. This is a bit from the Foreword of Book Four by the 3 humans (listed at the bottom) who channeled the RA group beings or group mind.

Book Four of The Law of One is a beginning in the examination of the nature and the proper metaphysical use of the archetypical mind. The archetypical mind is the mind of the Logos, the blueprint used to make the creation and the means by which we evolve in mind, body, and spirit. Ra stated that the archetypical mind could best be studied by one of three methods: the tarot, astrology, or the Tree of Life, which is also known as white ceremonial magic. We decided to investigat the archetypical mind by delving into tarot, more especially the twenty-two images of the Major Arcana. In Book Four we work primarily with the first seven cards, which are archetypes for the structure of the mind. An overview of all the tarot's twenty-two archetypes is also sought......."


L/L Research
Don Elkins & Carla L. Rueckert, & James A. Mc Carty
July 8, 1983

[article shortened to allowed length avoiding copyright breaches.Moderator]
 
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jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Lapis-

YES! I have seen this before but I couldn't remember where and I'd been on the lookout since. Pretty nifty.
My favorite would have to be:

Arcanum Number XXII
The Fool
The Choice "

The fool and the idea of choice have been going together longer than two high school sweeties! 8) I've also heard that the fool heralds new beginings.
Besides that, it's good to have a choice.

:D Jen
 

Draco

Well-known member
Lapis,

I've never come across these correspondences before, but I quite like this idea. Thanks for that, it's quite inspiring.

Draco :wink:
 

Empath

Well-known member
I am well versed in Tarot. I've read cards and studied Tarot since 1973. There is a lot of study on the relationship between astrology and Tarot -- also the Kaballah.

The astrological attributions listed earlier come not only from Crowley but from other Tarot scholars: Greer, Arrien, others. This list is the rule of thumb I go by. However, there is always room for discussion!

When reading Tarot, one should not get too caught up in the literal interpretations. A reading is ALWAYS about context, and a card has different revelations for different querents.

For example, I easily recognize the Lunar nature of the high priestess because she is radiant yet elusive and hidden, like the moon. The high priestess is a strong significator of a psychic ability, particulary in the dream state -- a lunar attribute.

In a similar vein, the Hermit is very much a Virgo. He is analytical, mercurial, withdrawn from the social world, the dross materialism of the world may be too messy for him, may be timid or reluctant to share his light, yet he possesses many healing gifts. ... I know lots of Virgo males,and these qualities of the Hermit suit them well!

I have many decks, but use the crowley exclusively. It has a lush symbolism that is both evocative but not commandeering. The Rider-Waite deck is my fall-back classic.No one deck or author has the ultimate authority on the Tarot --or astrology, for that matter.

interpretation of stars, cards, and palms require a dose of the poet mixed in with the analytical psychic!
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Hey tarot buddies,

I recently asked my cards what direction I should take in a personal relationship. Should I keep our relations on a friends only basis, or should I go all out and try to make it a romance?
Well for the friends only card, I recieved the Knight of Swords


and for the romance side, I drew the Page of Swords.


Since it is my choice in the matter, I wanted to ask for more opinions. What I understand is that the Knight of Swords moves swiftly and is not always good. I'm thinking that the friendship idea wouldn't be that fufilling because the details of it would be forever moving. Moreover, the Page of Swords suggest that I keep vigilliant for signs that the other party is as romantically minded as I. And since they are both swords, I will most likely be using my intellect to decide my path.
I'm looking forward to your input.
 

Empath

Well-known member
Jen,

Sword cards indicate action, intellect and energy. Knight of Swords is all about conquest; he is an ardent suitor but not a good boyfriend because he is afraid of intimacy. He fears his deeper vulnerabilities, and would rather end a relationship unexpectedly than reveal any weakness.

The page of swords can represent a younger female who intelligent, strong -- and suspicious of others. She needs to prove herself, gets upset when others underestimate her intellectual cpabilities and will power, and often feels that she has to fight for what she wants.

Since both cards are sword people, I sense a lot of banter, sexual tension -- think sword play. If the knight represents the male and the page represents the female, then this would be a compatible match because the emotional needs are the same -- neither wants to reveal too much of themselves, both love a good argument, and both have the capability to leave the relationship abruptly.

Swords are associated with technology, metal, mechanics, medicine, military, martial arts, law and legal battles... and decisions.
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
How exactly do Tarots work?

Not a silly question really. Tarot cards are only tools for or conscious mind to connect with our subconsciousness. The cards that one draws (if the question was clearly thought out) should be relevent to the answer because it is your gut feelings that are ruling your waking mind to pick the proper cards. This also argues that we humans have all of the answers we need to fufill our questions. It is our day-time mind that is prohibiting this exchange between intellect and intuition. With their vivid pictures and symbolic numbers, tarot cards bridge the gap between mind and soul.
 

Summery Joy

Well-known member
jenluvsblackcat said:
The cards that one draws (if the question was clearly thought out) should be relevent to the answer because it is your gut feelings that are ruling your waking mind to pick the proper cards.

Are the cards facing up or down when you are choosing? I mean, do you actually see the picture that you are picking out? Because if it's face down, then it would be a random choice, right?

So, if you actually can see the pictures as you choose among them, wouldn't you know the meanings of all of them by time and experience?
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
What I like to do when I ask a question to the cards is to hold them in a stack (deck) with the pictures all facing down, then I think of my question and begin shuffling them like a set of playing cards. When I think I have shuffled enough, I fan the cards out facing down. I then randomly pick the cards that will suit the spread I am trying to read.

For example, you can have a 3 cards spread where it will tell:
Past, Present and Future
I pick three cards from the deck with the faces down, and turn them up when I place them in the spread. It's almost like the card game solitare. LOL.

There are books and websites about the meanings of the cards. It takes time and practice to get aquainted with reading them without sources.

Here is a website that will define all 78 cards:

http://www.ata-tarot.com/resource/cards/
 

Empath

Well-known member
Cards are usually selected face down. This way, intuition guides the seeker's choices of shuffling, deck cutting, and card selection. You may think this is a random process. but in my experience of 32+ years reading cards, there is always relevance of cards to seeker, no matter how skeptical they are. In fact, the very skeptical people often get the most amazing readings!

Often a card in a future outcome position shows up for months in subsequent readings in a backwards motion -- from future to present to past.

I do a lot of large parties. I always shuffle cards bewyeen readings and fan them out. People pick 3 cards, face down. Almost always husbands and wives (and other couples) pick one or two of the same cards, even though I do not know who is married to whom.

I've seen many synchronistic card selections, over thousands of readings that defy statistical norms of randomization. (I am a Scorpio/Aquarian -- I've worked the numbers).

I would not begin to presume that Iknow how and why it works, but I assure you, it DOES work!

Cards may be selected face up for study and meditation purposes.
 

Summery Joy

Well-known member
Two more questions:

Is it alright to consult tarot after consulting another tool on the same issue? I ask this because I do horary and I know that it doesn't work well if you already have the answer from another reading, tarot or anything else.

Is there a way to get a good, valid tarot reading online?
 

jenluvsblackcat

Well-known member
Is it alright to consult tarot after consulting another tool on the same issue?

I think if you ask the question only once to each source, then it will be fine. I don't think you are in danger of getting a false reading.

A good, quality online reading...hmmm

www.lotustarot.com

this site is pretty cool.
 
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