Hillary Clinton Latest Crime
- Thread starter Dubyadude1986
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david starling
Well-known member
Whether you like the two-Party system or not, the simple fact is, that in a representative Democracy, representatives are elected by a Popular-vote majority. Since the President represents the ENTIRE NATION, any President who loses the NATIONAL Popular-vote, is ipso facto, NOT "democratically elected".
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
I'm not creating a breach. I'm just pointing out that the REASON for the breach is that a Nation which is a Representative Democracy, currently has a President who wasn't Democratically elected by the Nation. A Dictatorship of the winner-take-all Electoral College is what's causing the breach.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Dirius
Well-known member
This right here, this you wrote is childish thinking. And very insulting if I may add.
You live in one of the few countries in the world who has never had a dictatorship, and is in fact one of the few places on earth in which you have the freedom to do whatever you want.
Claiming that you live in a dictatorship is an insult to every citizen of most countries in the world who have lived under real dictatorships, that involved people being murdered, persecuted, etc.
david starling
Well-known member
J.A., it's not a partisan issue. In fact, with the reform I'm in favor of, it would have an extremely close Presidential election, and, crunching the numbers, Trump would likely have won. Although, if the candidates knew in advance that every vote in every State counted, they would have had different campaign strategy. Meanwhile, we're a Representative Democracy, stuck with a "President" elected by the tyranny of the flawed Electoral College system.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
The House of Representatives, and the Senate, are Democratically elected. It's only the office of President that's been dictated to us. We also have the Constitution, with its Preamble and its Bill of Rights, and its Amendments. So, we're far from being a dictatorship.
Dirius
Well-known member
Yet you keep saying you live under a dictatorship, and in an undemocratic country every other post.
Also your president was democratically elected. You insist he wasn't, just as you insist its a dictatorship, as most people with left-wing mentality do- -
The victimhood complex has now reached alarming levels, when people in america are crying they live in a dictatorship.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Dirius,
You seem to be getting personally offended. I too have read David's comments and nowhere has he stated that he is living in a dictatorship. The only post saying that is yours. You need to cool off a bit and then read the posts with an open mind. He has clarified repeatedly that the constitution and the houses are all democratic. It is just the office of the president that is not elected democratically. But you are turning that point into a blanket statement. Please try and understand what he is trying to say! And I do agree with him 100% because he is stating a fact! The US, the U.K., India, Germany all call themselves democracies but in reality are not direct democracies because their country 's heads are NOT elected by the people directly! One example of such a direct democracy is Taiwan!! That is the difference between all the aforementioned countries/ indirect democracies and Taiwan/ direct democracy!!
You seem to be getting personally offended. I too have read David's comments and nowhere has he stated that he is living in a dictatorship. The only post saying that is yours. You need to cool off a bit and then read the posts with an open mind. He has clarified repeatedly that the constitution and the houses are all democratic. It is just the office of the president that is not elected democratically. But you are turning that point into a blanket statement. Please try and understand what he is trying to say! And I do agree with him 100% because he is stating a fact! The US, the U.K., India, Germany all call themselves democracies but in reality are not direct democracies because their country 's heads are NOT elected by the people directly! One example of such a direct democracy is Taiwan!! That is the difference between all the aforementioned countries/ indirect democracies and Taiwan/ direct democracy!!
Oddity
Well-known member
I wouldn't describe the EC as tyrannical. You live in a federal republic, and neither the Declaration of Independence, nor the Constitution calls it a democracy. The EC helps to ensure that each state gets a say in who's elected to the presidency.
Nonetheless, you have quite a bit of democracy in your voting system. And you have a legally elected president. Short of dismantling or changing the EC (unlikely to happen because it is a federal republic) there's not a lot you can do. You can petition for most states to go the way Maine does with the EC, with proportional representation, but that's about it.
Dirius
Well-known member
Not at all, but I am remarking that the irony of david's statement is gigantic. A lot of people have been tortured, raped and murdered under vicious dictators in the past, and still to this day in many places around the world.
For someone who has been lucky enough to live in a truly democratic and free country, to go around saying in multiple posts that it is a "dictatorship" is just pathetic.
As for your comment, as I said before in other post (which JUP quoted here) the systems in places such as Germany, UK, etc., may not be perfect but they are democracies, just like the U.S.
Unless you are prepared to offer an alternative without flaws, you shouldn't really complain. So, I will ask you the same thing I asked david before, what is your solution and better system?
david starling
Well-known member
The problem with improving the Electoral College system isn't Federal at all, except insofar as the Federal government gives free reign to the States as to how to allocate the Popular-vote results to the Electoral-vote results. ALL the States would have to agree to a proportional method of translating the Popular-vote in the State to the Electoral-vote. Since the winner-take-all method currently benefits one Party only, States dominated by that Party won't agree to change it, and if the other Party changes it unilaterally it would lose Electoral votes. So, we're stuck with a system that occasionally elects a President using an undemocratic method. The U.S. is a Federal Republic AND a Representative Democracy, btw.
david starling
Well-known member
What's pathetic is your penchant for lecturing a United States citizen on what's acceptable in terms of criticizing a U.S. institution that requires improvement. We have that right here, even if you don't have it in your country. My solution is a direct proportional correspondence between the Popular-vote and the Electoral-vote in each State. One person, one vote, as mandated by the Supreme Court; Presidential elections included, which is not happening under the dictatorship of the winner-take-all Electoral system.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
you yourself pathetically whining achieves nothing so do as Oddity advised
david starling
Well-known member
you yourself pathetically whining achieves nothing so do as Oddity advised
Trump supporters are the real whiners, unable to admit that a large majority of American citizens voted against him. All they can do is champion an election method designed to maintain the institution of Slavery in the U.S. Trump, unlike all our other elected representatives, was not elected by the "will of the people". No whining, just stating a fact. Now, whine about it some more, if you like.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
You're not listening. We don't live under a dictatorship. We just have a temporary President who wasn't Democratically elected. We have "checks and balances", to enable us to ride it out. Explain to me just how Trump was "democratically elected", when the votes against him were thrown away in any State that was majority Republican. I'd say the same thing if Trump had lost the Electoral-vote and won the National Popular-vote.
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