Dominant planet in a stellium? How to tell?

MJ82

MJ82

Well-known member
I'm wondering how to tell which planet is the most dominant in a stellium. I have read that the order of planets in a stellium are important, as well as looking for a planet that might be exalted or "naturally" at home in the house the stellium is in.

Can anyone shed any light?

I, for instance, have an 8th house stellium (placidus) with Moon, Mars, Saturn and Pluto. My chart is attached.

Can anyone explain the general principle in determining which plantes dominate and how they influence a stellium?

Thanks :kissing:
 

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dr. farr

Well-known member
Calculation of the "dignities and debilities" for each planet in the stellium (there are several lists which can be used for "scoring" these dignities and debilities) can be used to determine the dominant planet in the group.
 
MJ82

MJ82

Well-known member
From what I have read about dignities and debilities, it relates to planets in signs. But does it also relate to planets in houses?

For example Saturn is in my 8th house stellium, and in Libra, where I understand Saturn to be exalted. But I also have Pluto in libra in the 8th house, the house in which Pluto is exalted. Am I understanding this correctly?

:wink:
 
K

kurojung

Active member
I would have thought Saturn, as it's exalted in Libra, while Mars is in detriment. Also saturn (traditionally) rules Aquarius, your ascendant, which also has venus (pointing back to Libra again).

I am born just 2 months after u, and also have the same stellium, but it falls in the first house. I definately went through a lot of personal transformation, usually influenced by a change of country (sun in 9th, ruler of ninth in the ninth). I know a lot of ppl/friends with this placement, and they are either very creative, or they have lots of boyfriends!

How do u feel your 8th house stellium ahs played out? I'm curious...
 
MJ82

MJ82

Well-known member
Hi Kurojung, thanks for the reply.

I would have thought Saturn, as it's exalted in Libra
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How have you managed to overcome Saturnian restrictions, and do you mind if I ask you what some of those have been?

For me, Saturn's influence has (I guess, I'm new to astrology) mainly been felt in areas of moving forward in my life, I know what my interests/passions are but it's the *how* to get there that has been difficult for me.

I have read that Uranus is also considered the ruler of Aquarius. Is that more of a modern astrology view?

I know a lot of ppl/friends with this placement, and they are either very creative, or they have lots of boyfriends!
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I can't say I have many partners, where did you get that from? :happy: But yes very creative, though I sometimes struggle to express this..

How do u feel your 8th house stellium ahs played out? I'm curious...
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Well, I am very aware of issues of power in relationships (I'm struggling to balance {libra} my sense of power vis-a-vis others, in my personal relationships). I don't mean power struggles, though sometimes it feels this way.

I am also quite aware of sexual undercurrents (not just in myself) but in others, and how this ties into power and boundaries. I think from what I have read about Pluto in the 8th, it is true that I have a very psychological way of thinking about things and people. Sometimes it's really exhausting and I just want to switch off, and often that psychological perspective is an introspective one, though by no means always. I'm a documentary filmmaker so maybe I'll channel this all into good use!

I'm still learning how all of this relates to my life and experiences... but a lot of it falls right into place. Also Saturn in the 8th, well I do have issues with emotional intimacy (less so with sexual intimacy) though I do eventually move past this, it just takes quite a bit of time to trust and open up. Aparently with Saturn here, this is supposed to be one of my biggest life/karmic lessons! To perfect the art of "deep bonding" with another. I'm working on it....

How about you and your 1st house Libra stellium? :cool:
 
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MJ82

MJ82

Well-known member
p.s. does a planet - like Pluto in the 8th house (or in any "natural" house) - act as a contender to another exalted planet in a sign in a stellium?

Or is it only planets in signs that are considered when determining rulership?
 
astrologer50

astrologer50

Banned
MJ82 said:
p.s. does a planet - like Pluto in the 8th house (or in any "natural" house) - act as a contender to another exalted planet in a sign in a stellium?

Or is it only planets in signs that are considered when determining rulership?
Click to expand...

it's called accidentially dignified say if neptune was in 12th or venus in 12th as venus is exalted in pisces and accidentially dign in 12th..

The whole point of a stellium is that is act as 'one major' aspect with knock on effects.. Now mars is an 'active planet' but in a suceedent house loses some strength. have you researched saturn/pluto. these two don't blend well but can add raging ambition, strength hard work

shows amazing reserves of tenacity and self-discipline. Be careful that it doesn't result in too much self-denial and severity. The combination offers great strength of will and an inclination to dig hard and deep into your interests. Once your mind is committed, you are capable of incredible resolve. This gives you a talent for succesfully performing difficult work under tiring circumstances
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturnaspects.html#sacpl
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why not break the aspects down individually and see which ones you identify with strongly and this will be your 'dominant aspect/planet'
 
K

kurojung

Active member
were u quite emotionally volatile and nervous, especially when you were younger (looking at the Mars-Moon conjunction aspecting merc in first, although quite a wide orb)?

I think as Libras its our job to find the balance to the energy of the Mars-Moon, so maybe Saturn isnt too bad in that sense? I found that I fluctuated between being to crazy/emotional/hyper to then being too serious, inhibited, but the more time passes the easier this balance is. And all the mars moon energy is still there :)

How was the Saturn return to your 8th house?
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
astrologer50 said:
it's called accidentially dignified say if neptune was in 12th or venus in 12th as venus is exalted in pisces and accidentially dign in 12th..
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Essential Dignity and Debility is a Traditional astrological technique. Here is a link to an illustration that clearly shows that neither Uranus, Neptune nor Pluto has essential dignity and/or debility. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are excluded from the Table of Essential Dignities, then obviously, the three outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no essential dignity and/or debility :smile:
 
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L

Lin

Well-known member
I believe there are 2 answers to your question. for matters belonging to the 2nd/8th house, definitely, it's the Moon-Mars. Moon is very close to the 8th cusp and Mars rules the 2nd.
However, you have Pluto trine Merc...and that Merc is in the first house....that is VERY powerful.... plus, Pluto is in it's natural house, the 8th.
Sometimes there isn't just one answer, though people are always looking to reduce astrology to one-liners.

It's all important, just in different ways.
LIN
 
astrologer50

astrologer50

Banned
JUPITERASC said:
Essential Dignity and Debility is a Traditional astrological technique. Here is a link to an illustration that clearly shows that neither Uranus, Neptune nor Pluto has essential dignity and/or debility. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are excluded from the Table of Essential Dignities, then obviously, the three outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no essential dignity and/or debility :smile:
Click to expand...

If traditional astrologers don't use or accept uranus neptune and pluto how can they have dignities??

I know plenty of modern astrologers that use dignitories, it 's not an 'exclusive' Traditional thing either....
 
MJ82

MJ82

Well-known member
Thanks Astrologer50 for your feedback. I should probably break down the aspects and study them more. Would Pluto in the 8th house by "accidentally dignified" (I need to study this more!)

Hi Lin, you said:
You have Pluto trine Merc...and that Merc is in the first house....that is VERY powerful.... plus, Pluto is in it's natural house, the 8th.
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Can you explain what you been by very powerful? :wink:

Kurojung:

Were u quite emotionally volatile and nervous, especially when you were younger (looking at the Mars-Moon conjunction aspecting merc in first, although quite a wide orb)?

How was the Saturn return to your 8th house?
Click to expand...

Yes I was when I was younger, though I am still very restless mentally, emotionally (nervous sometimes). I wouldn't say volatile as such though :innocent:

If I understand correctly I am currently having my Saturn Return? And this will go on for sometime? Major transformations in my life, upheavals etc, I split up from my girlfriend of 7 years and moved country. I'm also (restlessly) trying to do a lot of soul searching and thinking about overcoming my own limitations... so work still on going, but very much "feeling" it...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
MJ82 said:
From what I have read about dignities and debilities, it relates to planets in signs. But does it also relate to planets in houses? For example Saturn is in my 8th house stellium, and in Libra, where I understand Saturn to be exalted. But I also have Pluto in libra in the 8th house, the house in which Pluto is exalted. Am I understanding this correctly? :wink:
Click to expand...
This is an incorrect assumption, according to Traditional astrology

astrologer50 said:
If traditional astrologers don't use or accept uranus neptune and pluto how can they have dignities??
Click to expand...
Exactly. That's what I have said all along. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto cannot have dignity. Not because traditional astrologers are deliberately 'not using or not accepting' the outer planets but because the outer planets are invisible (apart from Neptune and even then Neptune is on the edge of visibilty and rarely seen) therefore Traditional Astrological Dignity and Debility cannot apply to the outer planets - as previously explained at this link
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39021&highlight=generational+outer+planets

astrologer50 said:
I know plenty of modern astrologers that use dignitories, it 's not an 'exclusive' Traditional thing either....
Click to expand...
Modern astrologers have indeed attempted to borrow the idea of dignity from Traditional astrology. But modern astrology cannot cram the outer planets into the original scheme used by ancient/Traditional astrologers (here's a link to that original scheme)... you can view the table and note that the outer planets are not mentioned there at all. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

to clarify then: basically, MJ82 asked
MJ82 said:
p.s. does a planet - like Pluto in the 8th house (or in any "natural" house) - act as a contender to another exalted planet in a sign in a stellium? Or is it only planets in signs that are considered when determining rulership?
Click to expand...
and received the folowing reply
astrologer50 said:
it's called accidentially dignified say if neptune was in 12th or venus in 12th as venus is exalted in pisces and accidentially dign in 12th.. '
Click to expand...
The above comment refers to a previous thread at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38797 in which Anachiel says that
Anachiel said:
Is this what you were looking for? It is specifically from the Chaldean order that Venus is in her joy in the 12th.
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but Anachiel specifically refers to the Chaldean order of the planets. But Ptolemy says that any planet in the 12th House is accidentally debilitated (except for Saturn which has its Joy in the 12th house)
JUPITERASC said:
Essential Dignity and Debility is a Traditional astrological technique. Here is a link to an illustration that clearly shows that neither Uranus, Neptune nor Pluto has essential dignity and/or debility. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html Since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are excluded from the Table of Essential Dignities, then obviously, the three outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no essential dignity and/or debility
Click to expand...
that remark received the following response
astrologer50 said:
If traditional astrologers don't use or accept uranus neptune and pluto how can they have dignities?? I know plenty of modern astrologers that use dignitories, it 's not an 'exclusive' Traditional thing either....
Click to expand...
To which I say, I have already said it is not possible for the outer planets to have dignities and debilities because they are excluded from this table which is used by Traditional Astrologers. Dignities and Debilities in their intended original intended form are exclusive to Traditional Astrologers.Traditional astrologers exclude Uranus, Neptune and Pluto for reasons already explained elsewhere - at this link for example http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39021&highlight=generational+outer+planets

Someone with a debilitated Venus in the 12 house who seeks to find ways to change that fact can use modern astrology to 'somehow dignify' their Venus but the fact is Venus is debilated in the 12th house as explained at this link http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html :smile:
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
astrologer50 said:
JA, you 'do' know you have copies/pasted my comments your reply at least twice over and people accuse me of doing this, join the club.....:)
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That was my intention - in order to ensure that my reply would have complete clarity - which is entirely different from doing so unintentionally (JUPITERASC - who is JA?) :smile:
 
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