Planets in elements not a little overrated?

gimzo23 · Apr 3, 2009

Is the elements analysis in examining natal charts not a little overrated and overall not too telling at all? I mean, half of the planets are either generational or not personal anyway and thus aren't really too significant in their sign positions. So I don't see how looking at the elements strength here can be too telling either, can it? I could see a meaning if only the 5 personal planets are judged by their elementary placements. But with all of the planets it doesn't really make too much sense to me.

For instance, there could be several non-personal planets gathered in one or two elements over several years, and so the chance is relatively high that many people born during this time and years would have a certain element strongly and another probably rather weakly represented in their charts. But is that really telling on a personal level?
Or someone might have 3 or 4 outer and non-personal planets in one element, but a strongly placed and aspected sun or moon in a different element as the only planet in that element. It would be stated that this element would be rather weakly represented in the chart, because only one planet would be in that element, and on the other hand the element with the many non-personal planets would be indicated as strongly represented and first conclusions would be drawn, while it very well could be that the person with the strong sun or moon would be much stronger influenced and characterized by the element they are in and the aspects they make to other planets than the element where the generational planets reside, I would assume. I guess strong aspects or many aspects and specific house positions by planets make up a lack of certain elements often times anyway, doesn't it? And wouldn't generally the anlaysis of the house placements be more telling than the sign/elements analyses anyway?

Or another thing I wonder about is with grand-trines in certain elements. Would that be really telling and important in what element the grand-trine occurs if it involves 3 non-personal planets? I can't quite see it.

Just some stuff I was wondering today, as I so often read about lack or emphasized elements everywhere. Any opinions or thought corrections are welcome.

gaer · Apr 3, 2009

gimzo23 said:
Is the elements analysis in examining natal charts not a little overrated and overall not too telling at all? I mean, half of the planets are either generational or not personal anyway and thus aren't really too significant in their sign positions.

Certainly it is overrated, because it is often used with no consideration of other chart factors. It's just a tool.

But I think it can be useful.

So I don't see how looking at the elements strength here can be too telling either, can it? I could see a meaning if only the 5 personal planets are judged by their elementary placements. But with all of the planets it doesn't really make too much sense to me.

I assume you are talking about Sun, Moon, Mer, Ven, Mars, right? As personal planets?

For instance, there could be several non-personal planets gathered in one or two elements over several years, and so the chance is relatively high that many people born during this time and years would have a certain element strongly and another probably rather weakly represented in their charts. But is that really telling on a personal level?

The answer, in my mind, depends on how closely those planets aspect faster moving planets. In general, when several slow moving planets are all in one sign, many people born in a certain time period will be stamped with this energy. Deciding how personal it is would be a judgment call.

Or another thing I wonder about is with grand-trines in certain elements. Would that be really telling and important in what element the grand-trine occurs if it involves 3 non-personal planets? I can't quite see it.

You won't find slow moving planets form a grand trine very often unless you are counting Jupiter and Saturn. But if you see a grand trine in a natal chart, look to see how personal planets relate to that trine to judge how "personal" it is.

Here is an example:

Check late Feb. of 1974

Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus form an air grand trine.

You will probably find it hard to find a day when at least one personal planet. If you go back to Feb. 14th, Sun in Aquarius is conjunct Jupiter and trine the other two. Mars is square Jupiter. Venus is square Uranus.

That would be a tough call, wouldn't it?

astrologer50 · Apr 4, 2009

Elements, hemispheres and quadruplicities are important, cos its a synthesise of all these matters that makes interpretation an art.

The elements are quite telling even if generational, BUT you have to weigh up if there is a lack of air say and then there is say 3planets in 'air houses' that tends to compensate for the lack and is therefore not too noticeable at all.

back to basics then
http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc/
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm

So venus is sign is modified by house position and aspects made from her to other planets Asc and MC
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/venusinelements.html

The only way is for more study research of charts to examine the strengths and weaknesses for yourself..

Grand trines tend to cause inertia, cos they expect things to come easy or drop in their lap and the element involved will describe 'how' and the houses 'where'
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html

gimzo23 · Apr 4, 2009

gaer said:
Certainly it is overrated, because it is often used with no consideration of other chart factors. It's just a tool.

Yeah exactly. That was what I was thinking.

I assume you are talking about Sun, Moon, Mer, Ven, Mars, right? As personal planets?

Yes. Those are the personal planets aren't they? That's what I've learned at least.

The answer, in my mind, depends on how closely those planets aspect faster moving planets. In general, when several slow moving planets are all in one sign, many people born in a certain time period will be stamped with this energy. Deciding how personal it is would be a judgment call.

That's what I thought. I would personally tend to rather look at the aspects and house positions here to make a judgment and not pay too close attention to the elements in this case. Makes more sense to me.

You won't find slow moving planets form a grand trine very often unless you are counting Jupiter and Saturn. But if you see a grand trine in a natal chart, look to see how personal planets relate to that trine to judge how "personal" it is.

I see, thanks.

Here is an example:

Check late Feb. of 1974

Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus form an air grand trine.

You will probably find it hard to find a day when at least one personal planet. If you go back to Feb. 14th, Sun in Aquarius is conjunct Jupiter and trine the other two. Mars is square Jupiter. Venus is square Uranus.

That would be a tough call, wouldn't it?

I guess so. So grand trine in so and so element like what one can always read isn't really all that telling unless you look what else is aspected and involved in I guess. Thanks for the reply, gaer.

gimzo23 · Apr 4, 2009

astrologer50 said:
Elements, hemispheres and quadruplicities are important, cos its a synthesise of all these matters that makes interpretation an art.

The elements are quite telling even if generational, BUT you have to weigh up if there is a lack of air say and then there is say 3planets in 'air houses' that tends to compensate for the lack and is therefore not too noticeable at all.

back to basics then
http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc/
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm

So venus is sign is modified by house position and aspects made from her to other planets Asc and MC
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/venusinelements.html

The only way is for more study research of charts to examine the strengths and weaknesses for yourself..

Grand trines tend to cause inertia, cos they expect things to come easy or drop in their lap and the element involved will describe 'how' and the houses 'where'
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html

Thanks Astrologer50.

astrologer50 said:
The elements are quite telling even if generational, BUT you have to weigh up if there is a lack of air say and then there is say 3planets in 'air houses' that tends to compensate for the lack and is therefore not too noticeable at all.

That's nice that I saw that somehow rightly with a possible compensation with houses and close aspects to personal planets. Thanks for the links and the answer.

Planets in elements not a little overrated?

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