Saturn Conjunct the Ascendannt

Hello there, I have often pondered whether planets in Conjunction with the Asc give the native the impression of having the asc of the sign rules by that planet.

For example, I have a Leo Asc, but it is conjunct with Saturn, I would not say that I am a typical Leo rising, but then I am not like a Capricorn rising either. I can't find much about this Saturn placement so if anyone can shed any light on it I would be most greatful. Opinions welcome.

unusual_suspect, I have a lot of respect for Joseph's mastery of traditional astrology. But here let me suggest a more modern interpretation, so that you can compare them yourself and decide what works best for you.

If you are willing to post your chart, that would be a big help. In its absense, though, here are some principles for you to consider.

One thing I would always look at is how your Saturn and ASC are aspected. Generally an "easy" aspect like a trine or sextile will give you the more beneficial attributes of a sign or planet in question; but a difficult aspect will give you the more negative attributes. Unless, naturally, you are a mature and enlightened individual who has worked through the negatives already!

With Leo rising, also, the sun rules your first house and your chart, so I would want to see how your sun is aspected, and what is its own house. This should say a lot about how you come across to other people.

Saturn tends to constrict what it touches; and if challenged by other planets, it often shows how and where we feel unhappy and frustrated. Leo is the "sign of the child" and it is typically outgoing and loves to be praised. But you may feel unable to be naturally expressive and fun-loving, and unable to deserve praise if your Saturn is afflicted. If Saturn is well aspected, however, you probably have a lot of natural leadership ability.

There's more, but this should get you started.

Having Saturn on a Leo cusp brings the energy of the quincunx, or inconjunct, to the forefront. [Saturn rules Cap which is inconjunct Leo, and thus would be ruling your 6th house.] So Saturn conjunct the Asc, and ruling the 6th house of service and health , would
provide you with the motivation to be a healer or nurse/physician or something of that nature perhaps, as you would see the necessity of such nurturing people. It could also affect your personal health in your younger years, but that would probably serve to help you in your future role as a 'service provider' eventually. Your Leo strength would probably outshine your Saturn /Asc conjunction eventually, but it might be a struggle at first, as the inconjunct energy of Leo/Capricorn implies ' crisis 'and a necessary readjustment to progress.

Joseph Ledzion said:

I agree with you, but why merely the younger years and not the entire life? Are you suggesting some sort of Time Lord?
...

With Love,
Joseph

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Time Lord? Not really.
I just figure that the solar energy of leo can eventually overcome it, and that I would not
predict to anyone here that they will have a lifelong physical battle without any evidence as such.
I feel in my gut that the 6th house energy of cap, coming to the asc, is more of a childhood thing, and will be improving with age.

Joseph Ledzion said:

Friend,


Saturn is very cold and dry. And so it serves to cool off the otherwise hot and dry nature of Leo. And so the overall impression is one that is primarily dry, because the heat of Leo and the coolness of Saturn nearly cancel each other out, and all we are left with is dryness! And so drinking water is very important. Fluids!


Joseph

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That book sounds like intresting stuff, Saturn is at 10.46 in Leo but is in the 12th and not the first house, the asc is at 12.41. what you say about fluids is very interesting, I have been seriously ill this year due to a problem relating to my kidney requiring surgery etc. Thankfully I am now on the mend and I must drink plenty of fluids!

Saturn is trining the moon and neptune in my 5th house, so I wonder if this is a good thing as Saturn is in Leo and we associate the 5th house with Leo, there is also a sextile to pluto in the 3rd. However Uranus in the 4th squares both Saturn and the Ascendant. None of the softer aspects are to dignified planets though.

katydid brings up an interesting point about health, I was a very sickly child and I still have quite a delicate constitution. I am about to do my Rieki 1 and I have recently become very interested in healing and the medical side of astrology, I have an empty 6th house though.

waybread makes an interesting point about the Sun in the chart, when I do a chart I feel the house that the Sun occupies is almost as much of a key factor in a persons character as the sun sign itself. For example, I know a Gemini Sun who has his Sun in the 2nd house, he has many of the characteristics of a Taurus. My Sun is the last degree of my 8th house (Pisces) and is conjunct with Merc and is making and unfortunate square to the Moon in the 5th house (Sagittarius).

And dhundhun mentions that the aura might not be comfortable for others, I naturally appear very serious and people I don't know are always telling me to cheer up but this is just my natural demeanor.

Thanks for some interesting imput.

I have Saturn in conjunct the Asc, but in Virgo. For Saturn in Leo there is a need to be recognized, with a powerful need for approval, and as others have said there can be leadership potential. You are learning to express yourself, and let inner warmth shine through, and if you have artistic skills you will need to develop them, all this centres around the image you project, perhaps there you are defensive, or you can be highly self conscious about the way you look. Sometimes a loss of prestige happens, and you question what personal authority you have. With Saturn can on Asc in Leo authority figures, self-esteem, personal appearance, repressed anger, or it can come out through extreme shyness - depending on the chart as a whole. Saturn here can represent a lifelong needs to be recognized, "seeking the self at the centre" you need to find a way to be more direct in your self expression, defensive barriers can be erected, too much pride, imposing the personality etc. Look at authority figures in your early childhood, did someone block/deny you from being yourself, and has this left fears and anxiety when it comes to expressing your identity. This position of Saturn on the Asc in Leo points very strongly towards expressing yourself and your outer self expression with confidence, and possibly getting over deep fears of rejection.

Shining Ray said:

I have Saturn in conjunct the Asc, but in Virgo. ................................ Look at authority figures in your early childhood, did someone block/deny you from being yourself, and has this left fears and anxiety when it comes to expressing your identity. This position of Saturn on the Asc in Leo points very strongly towards expressing yourself and your outer self expression with confidence, and possibly getting over deep fears of rejection.

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Do you find that you are a typically Saturnian person and did you find yourself "blocked" with this placement. I think of the Saturn conj asc being similar to the challenges of having Saturn in the 1st, however Saturn has a bad reputation in general it seems and I feel this is unjustified.

When you say about an authority figure blocking my creativity at a young age; is this not the case with everyone? We are all creative and through parents, school and having to fit in most of us end up having it knocked out of us. I think most people are frustrated in this area!

I do however find that I constantly have my creativity blocked by circumstances and do feel a need to express myself. I started a blog while I have been recovering from an illness, just my personal thoughts about astrology really. I wrote a post about Saturn in the first actually after somone asked about it. It's a bit of fun but I get to vent my spleen so to speak!

http://astrologybybex.blogspot.com/2009/07/saturn-says-eat-your-greens.html

One of the reasons that I brought up the saturn asc conjunction is because I think people shy away from Saturn as saturnian values are not terribly cool. Having Saturn on the asc does make me a little serious and scathing of frivolity at times, I don't know about you.

unusual_suspect said:

Do you find that you are a typically Saturnian person and did you find yourself "blocked" with this placement. I think of the Saturn conj asc being similar to the challenges of having Saturn in the 1st, however Saturn has a bad reputation in general it seems and I feel this is unjustified.

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Inhibition yes, anxious in new situations. Confidence not the best, although teachers have commented I don't allow my full potential out. They are surprised because I do hide myself, and don't show everything in the shop window. I get nice comments from authority figures, who feel I waste my potential, but my mother in particular, blocked my assertiveness at an early age. I was called selfish if I expressed a different viewpoint. Most of the really negative readings are unjustified.

When you say about an authority figure blocking my creativity at a young age; is this not the case with everyone? We are all creative and through parents, school and having to fit in most of us end up having it knocked out of us. I think most people are frustrated in this area!

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You can belittle your own "real experience" when you say "everyone" is blocked creatively, or in self-expression by authority. Not as profoundly as Saturn in fire signs or houses (1st, 5th, 9th) or Saturn aspecting Sun-Mars-Jupiter (fire planets). For example Saturn in 9th in many cases (not all) have been dictated too in religion and beliefs. Perhaps born into a family shackled to a certain type of religion. It can take a lifetime to free themselves from those chains. Guilt, and obligation can block their own potential in life. Saturn in Leo is specifically saying you need to work on the area of creativity, self-expression, your own power and authority in life, in the first house of identity. People will all have similar archetypes in life, there is only 12 compartments of life, and 12 signs, 10 planets. Saturn in Virgo for example shows frustration in work, duties, feeling useful in meaningful service. Saturn in Leo is not the same frustration in that sense. It's a about your own personal experience, not everybody is blocked in this area.

I do however find that I constantly have my creativity blocked by circumstances and do feel a need to express myself. I started a blog while I have been recovering from an illness, just my personal thoughts about astrology really. I wrote a post about Saturn in the first actually after somone asked about it. It's a bit of fun but I get to vent my spleen so to speak!

http://astrologybybex.blogspot.com/2009/07/saturn-says-eat-your-greens.html

One of the reasons that I brought up the saturn asc conjunction is because I think people shy away from Saturn as saturnian values are not terribly cool. Having Saturn on the asc does make me a little serious and scathing of frivolity at times, I don't know about you.

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I blog too I need a place to express my own thoughts on astrology, life, my experience in this crazy world. It is a good place for self-expression. You described Saturn perfectly in first. I can be too serious when I meet people, more scared to be honest. I have a real shy personality, and I am not confident when I meet others (Sun/7th opposed Saturn/1st). It comes across as defensive, and people often say loosen up. Mentally I am fun and progressive. Emotionally I am kind and empathic, but first impression of me, is quiet, reserved, serious. I can't escape Saturn when people meet me, and I become awkward and I can't express myself. With Saturn powerfully sitting on the Asc, it's right out in front. I often wished I could hide my Saturn in another house, our Saturn is on show.

I would love to read your blog, please send me a link

I have Saturn within 2 degrees of my asc in the 12th, so this is very similar to Saturn in the 1st , it is still on the asc. Tbh I am a very moody person and I swing between being a bit of a hermit and being very gregarious. I feel I have loosened up as I have got older, I think that is the general way with Saturn rising or in the 1st. I used to be terribly concerened about what other people thought, however, as I get older I am caring less and less.

However I am still a very uptight and highly strung person, but I am mellowing with age.

Maybe it's the Saturn Uranus Square I have, but I cannot feel repressed for too long as I have strange outbursts that come in the form of moving home suddenly (Uranus is in my 4th and I have moved 8 times in 10 years), quitting jobs and washing my hands of people. I sometimes feel the urge to shock when I feel stifled.

I would say that there may be a tendancy for people with Saturn asc or in 1st to shoulder responsibility on to themselves (as it is in 1st house and opposite desc) and become internal blamers, blaming themselves for other peoples shortcomings, maybe this is something to be aware of?

I don't know about you, but I think a strong Saturn helps you view lifes misfortunes with a sense of humour albeit a rather dark one. I decided a while back to make friends with my Saturn, it may be one of the closest allies a person has when it is conjunct their Ascendant, it is a very strong and solid planet so that is good in my world!

Shining Ray said:

Inhibition yes, anxious in new situations. Confidence not the best, although teachers have commented I don't allow my full potential out. They are surprised because I do hide myself, and don't show everything in the shop window. I get nice comments from authority figures, who feel I waste my potential, but my mother in particular, blocked my assertiveness at an early age. I was called selfish if I expressed a different viewpoint. Most of the really negative readings are unjustified.



You can belittle your own "real experience" when you say "everyone" is blocked creatively, or in self-expression by authority. Not as profoundly as Saturn in fire signs or houses (1st, 5th, 9th) or Saturn aspecting Sun-Mars-Jupiter (fire planets). For example Saturn in 9th in many cases (not all) have been dictated too in religion and beliefs. Perhaps born into a family shackled to a certain type of religion. It can take a lifetime to free themselves from those chains. Guilt, and obligation can block their own potential in life. Saturn in Leo is specifically saying you need to work on the area of creativity, self-expression, your own power and authority in life, in the first house of identity. People will all have similar archetypes in life, there is only 12 compartments of life, and 12 signs, 10 planets. Saturn in Virgo for example shows frustration in work, duties, feeling useful in meaningful service. Saturn in Leo is not the same frustration in that sense. It's a about your own personal experience, not everybody is blocked in this area.



I blog too I need a place to express my own thoughts on astrology, life, my experience in this crazy world. It is a good place for self-expression. You described Saturn perfectly in first. I can be too serious when I meet people, more scared to be honest. I have a real shy personality, and I am not confident when I meet others (Sun/7th opposed Saturn/1st). It comes across as defensive, and people often say loosen up. Mentally I am fun and progressive. Emotionally I am kind and empathic, but first impression of me, is quiet, reserved, serious. I can't escape Saturn when people meet me, and I become awkward and I can't express myself. With Saturn powerfully sitting on the Asc, it's right out in front. I often wished I could hide my Saturn in another house, our Saturn is on show.

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[Mod edit - to move the long, old quote below the new response, and make the post more reader-friendly.]

unusual_suspect said:

I would love to read your blog, please send me a link

I have Saturn within 2 degrees of my asc in the 12th, so this is very similar to Saturn in the 1st , it is still on the asc. Tbh I am a very moody person and I swing between being a bit of a hermit and being very gregarious. I feel I have loosened up as I have got older, I think that is the general way with Saturn rising or in the 1st. I used to be terribly concerened about what other people thought, however, as I get older I am caring less and less.

However I am still a very uptight and highly strung person, but I am mellowing with age.

Maybe it's the Saturn Uranus Square I have, but I cannot feel repressed for too long as I have strange outbursts that come in the form of moving home suddenly (Uranus is in my 4th and I have moved 8 times in 10 years), quitting jobs and washing my hands of people. I sometimes feel the urge to shock when I feel stifled.

I would say that there may be a tendancy for people with Saturn asc or in 1st to shoulder responsibility on to themselves (as it is in 1st house and opposite desc) and become internal blamers, blaming themselves for other peoples shortcomings, maybe this is something to be aware of?

I don't know about you, but I think a strong Saturn helps you view lifes misfortunes with a sense of humour albeit a rather dark one. I decided a while back to make friends with my Saturn, it may be one of the closest allies a person has when it is conjunct their Ascendant, it is a very strong and solid planet so that is good in my world!

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Saturn in the 12th - I was assuming in the 1st house , although 12th house Saturn on Asc will impact how you come across. I think we shoulder a lot because maybe we give off that energy we can handle responsibility. Early childhood can create this feeling. It is an excellent idea to make friends with Saturn. If you constantly refer to Saturn as Malefic, or afflicting you, then you will only see the negative restrictions or limitations. If you learn to handle frustration well, you do eventually gain a worldly wisdom I guess. Humour is excellent, I read once with Saturn you should make jokes about your own awkwardness, or shyness, fears, and seriousness at times. It helps to make light of what we are so self-conscious about.

Here is the link to my blog The Twelve Gates, but I had a couple of lazy days on there, and posted quotes off the Internet relating to planets, with video's . Easy posts I call them. I will link you into my blog list on there

Saturn on ascendant, I've seen this aspect in other charts and some of them underwent strong changes in their appearance throughout the years.

unusual_suspect said:

Hello there, I have often pondered whether planets in Conjunction with the Asc give the native the impression of having the asc of the sign rules by that planet.

For example, I have a Leo Asc, but it is conjunct with Saturn, I would not say that I am a typical Leo rising, but then I am not like a Capricorn rising either. I can't find much about this Saturn placement so if anyone can shed any light on it I would be most greatful. Opinions welcome.

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Hello fellow sufferer j/k. But yeah, from my own experience, Saturn can be quite heavy and a burden sitting on the Ascendant. I have it conjunct from the 1st house with Mercury. We seem to have the same Leo Ascendant degree there, assuming that your birth time is exact? I think planets conjunct the Ascendant, especially a heavyweight like Saturn, can indeed overshadow or at least influence the true rising sign's expression quite a bit or very much so even, and can have a big influence and impact on one's life and one's experience of daily approach with the world. At least it has for me. I have experienced the Sun's house position to be very important, too, which seems to be a given, but it might add double importance with the Ascendant in Leo I would assume. I used to have huge self-confidence/inferiority problems and issues about things like my looks with acne and stuff in my youth, and still today often feel unconfident and unfomfortable in certain daily life situations amongst people and in social situations, which I attribute mainly to Saturn/Mercury there. The Sun in the 12th definitely doesn't help here though. I haven't been able to completely embrace my Saturn yet, and sometimes just hate it, but it's gotten a little better than it used to be, just like it seems to be for you too. And with Neptune like in your chart too, harmoniously adding into the Ascendant mix, (thinking about the positive expression of Neptune here), I think makes not such a bad mixture of adding quite a sensitiveness and softening to the hard edges and restrictions of Saturn there. Or how do you perceive this for yourself? For me, the good sides to such a Saturn placement, and as ruler of the 6th here, I have found to be a good sense of responsibility in the daily duties, or at least for the things I take care of. That's especially when it comes to taking care of my cats. As the 6th house seems to be connected with (small) animals and pets and with your 6th house ruler on your Ascendant, and your Pisces/Neptune influence, do you have any connection with pets or generally animals yourself?

Think this aspect is must be more prominent in childhood, cos the Asc and everything else does progress. Might be interested to see at what years did prog Asc depart 1' off the Saturn, did you people gain any confidence after that? or did it impair for all adulthood?

It's excellent to find like minds with similar charts and swop stories and this helps everyone to evolve and grow astrologically. So thanks for sharing and being honest here

RockFish said:

Saturn on ascendant, I've seen this aspect in other charts and some of them underwent strong changes in their appearance throughout the years.

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Yes, very true ! Just a Saturn transit through my ascendant was enough to change my looks ... that too for the better. And I don't have Saturn in my natal ascendant ... not even an aspect !

I'm so glad someone brought up this topic. I myself also have Saturn conjunct my Ascendant.

My Ascendant is at 16 degrees Sagittarius and my Saturn is at 10 degrees Sagittarius, so my Saturn is in the 12th, not the 1st.

I can easily say that my appearance is completely Saturn/Capricorn like. I look very "dark" and "serious" and "reserved". Aside from my looks, even my personality is Saturnized, i'm VERY Conservative and am terrible in social situations. I hate being around a lot of people, I have a bad case of Agoraphobia and just prefer being alone and keeping to myself in my own home in my own room. (This is probably strengthened by my Sun being in the 12th House as well, but my Sun is NOT conujunct with my Ascendant)

As for Planets being conjunct with the Ascendant, I also have Uranus conjunct my Ascendant in the 1st House, and it's actually a closer conjunction than my Saturn is. So apparently that would indicate that I also have somewhat of an Aquarius appearance/personality, but truthfully, it's really hard to pinpoint what exactly that would be. I don't think Aquarius really stands out as having a distinct look like Capricorn would (Serious and Reserved)

Anyway, as for my Chart, it goes like this...

• Sun: Scorpio
• Moon: Cancer
• Mercury: Scorpio
• Venus: Scorpio
• Mars: Aquarius
• Jupiter: Pisces
• Saturn: Sagittarius
• Uranus: Sagittarius
• Neptune: Capricorn
• Pluto: Scorpio
• Ascendant: Sagittarius
• Midheaven: Libra

Here are my Houses and the Planets that occupy them...

• 1st: Uranus (Conjunct Asc) and Neptune
• 2nd: n/a
• 3rd: Mars and Jupiter
• 4th: n/a
• 5th: n/a
• 6th: n/a
• 7th: Moon
• 8th: n/a
• 9th: n/a
• 10th: n/a
• 11th: Mercury, Venus and Pluto
• 12th: Saturn (Conjunct Asc) and Sun

And as for Aspects to my Ascendant and Saturn, I have both the Ascendant and Saturn Square Jupiter

All I know is that having Saturn conjunct Ascendant makes you absolutely miserable. I'm far too Angry and Strict, I hate every human being on the planet, I hate people who aren't like me, I wish everyone would be more serious and hardworking and stop being lazy bums. I just hate this world.

I fear going places every day, I'm far too self-conscious about the way I look and the way people see me. I constantly go out of my way to be kind and accommodating to strangers in public when secretly in my head I would rather strangle the life out of that person (I think me being too desperate to have people like me is because of my Cancer Moon)

I'm a train wreck of a human being in terms of my psyche. I just can't handle life or people in general for that matter.

Curse you Saturn!

All I know is that having Saturn conjunct Ascendant makes you absolutely miserable. I'm far too Angry and Strict, I hate every human being on the planet, I hate people who aren't like me, I wish everyone would be more serious and hardworking and stop being lazy bums. I just hate this world.

I fear going places every day, I'm far too self-conscious about the way I look and the way people see me. ..I'm a train wreck of a human being in terms of my psyche. I just can't handle life or people in general for that matter.

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I have a newfound respect for Saturn's dark sense of humour. I know you werent trying to be funny, but I had to laugh when I read this because this is exactly how I feel. Remember, everyone has to deal with Saturn, but those with Saturn in the 1st have had to deal with his weight from day one. Quick history, I had a very strict father who always called me lazy, always put me down, and would always find depressing work for me to do. So I rebelled most of my younger years, just to grow up and find we live in Saturn's world.

Remember, Saturn rules Capricorn, which is an Earth sign. One of his catch phrases should be "That's just the way it is". Sometimes I look around at daily life, everyone is carrying their own burden, and I see the whole world as pretty Saturn-like, thus people's need to escape into Neptune's drug-induced fantasy world, or any Jupiter-like activity to help them forget how serious life is. So those with prominent Saturn's are at a bit of an advantage I believe. I would compare it to having a parent constantly checking your homework, making sure you're ready for those big tests at school, as opposed to those who dont have that parent. It's a pain in the butt, but in the long-run, when you have that college degree and stable job, and you look at your "cool" friends who overdosed on drugs a long time ago, you come to appreciate Saturn being on your back 24/7. It's also like weight-training, the more you're used to a certain weight to lift, the easier it becomes to lift later on, so you're able to lift more, hence Saturn's ability to shoulder more responsibility than the average person.(Interestingly, Arnold Schwarzenegger has Saturn in Leo. Picture him laughing at the average guy lifting a few pounds, and calling him a "girly-man". lol I think Saturn will have the ability to laugh at life one day)

The Moon just happens to be transiting my natal Saturn right now, and I was off to a very depressing start to my day, but that quote made me laugh, thank you. It is a really tough influence for me personally, as I'm realizing that I appear very unapproachable, and kind of turning into my dad, who I saw as a real "buzz-kill" growing up. Saturn can really be a party-pooper, so it's kind of a cruel joke to have it in Leo, which is the life of the party. There is a balance out there however. I think he'll be more appreciated by the adult world as he gets older, because he's been dealing with adult issues all his life. So he's like a guide for those who wake up one day, and realize they're adults, and arent quite prepared for the harsh realities and responsibilities of the adult world.

I disagree that it's more prominent in childhood. It's always there, and continues to solidify, even with progressed charts. Mine just so happens to have progressed into Virgo, but I think I pretty much still project a serious leader type of quality with my Saturn in Leo. It's an aspect that produces a heavy heart, a bit of a lonely existence, but one good thing about it is, people tend to respect you, and that's what Saturn wants most in this life.

I was curious to see how much truth there may be to the Saturn conjuncting Ascendant making you look "Serious" and "Unfriendly" and kinda Capricorn-Like, so I decided to check out Astrotheme.com and check out which Celebrities had Saturn conjunct Ascendant in their charts, and low and behold I came across a few celebrities who seem to match the criteria i've been describing about this aspect.

Sean Connery, William Shatner, James Woods and James Earl Jones (Darth Vader) were a few I found to have the same conjunction and i'd say all 4 guys are known for their "Serious" demeanor and attitude.

As for the person who said it's more prominent in childhood, i'd disagree. I was a lot different when I was younger, I was more goofy and outgoing, I guess my Uranus conjunct Ascendant was in effect at that time, who knows. But I didn't really start showing signs of being Saturnized until my Late Teens.

unusual_suspect said:

I don't know about you, but I think a strong Saturn helps you view lifes misfortunes with a sense of humour albeit a rather dark one. I decided a while back to make friends with my Saturn, it may be one of the closest allies a person has when it is conjunct their Ascendant, it is a very strong and solid planet so that is good in my world!

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unusual_suspect, if only I had had that kind of wisdom earlier in my life!!!

I do not have Saturn conj Asc, but have Cap ASC, with Saturn in Leo in 8th. I have always felt life as being a really heavy burden I am carrying, and that I must not stuff it up!!!! Despite being a Leo Sun, I am very Saturnian - but I also engage in humour as a way of lightening the mood.

Another question - in relation to the father or father-figure in your life.....
Both for myself, and for a few people I know personally who have Saturn conj Asc, there was a defining experience early in life - usually quite early in life, or when a person was on the cusp of adulthood - in which the father metaphorically stamped on us as a way of (who knows??) perhaps re-establishing his Authority over us.

When I was 19-20 my father made a disparaging remark about a song I had written, and was singing to him (I think to get his `opinion') and as a result I never wrote another song, and still haven't to this day.......
A man I know in his 30's - with Saturn conj Cancer Asc - has been pretty much ignored by his father from his birth onwards...............(and his reaction to this has been a very close r/ship with his mother.)
A woman with Saturn conj Gemini Asc had a very strict and religious father who, considering her `wayward' when she was 17 - just before she went to Uni!! - punished her by hitting her with his belt, to `bring her into line'. She's now 66, and still remembers this event vividly, and considers it a defining moment in her life........

How did you - those with Saturn conj Asc - experience `father' when you were beginning to form your identity???

[unusual_suspect, if you feel that this slight turn in direction is highjacking your thread, then just let me know, and I'll put this post elsewhere, or maybe even begin a new thread. It's just that this issue of `father' has re-emerged for some Saturnian people I know. Even dead fathers don't always lie down.......]

I felt Saturn most intensely in my teens years, and I was self-conscious about my height at this age. Confidence around my appearance has been difficult, one negative word and it would send me into self-loathing again. I had my Saturn Return recently, and up until then I have coped with my awkwardness around others and my shyness. I would still be anxious, afraid, and defensive, but I could hide it better. However, when Saturn returned my "shyness" come back big time, and I felt like I was in my teens again. I couldn't control it all, and I resorted not to mixing with people too much. I felt AWKWARD. I know Saturn is asking me to get deal with the issues, but I felt uncomfortable. It seemed to bring back all the feelings of my teens.

According C.EO. Carter in Essays on the Foundations of Astrology, we don't need to regard Saturn's obstruction as necessarily evil. It can have stimulative effect upon the force that feels itself obstructive. Saturn is the prime obstacle to free expression. The obstruction of Saturn is sometimes derived from the self, as for instance indolence or stupidity. It is also very frequently the result of actions for which the subject is in no way responsible and over which he has little or no control. These actions are often those of older people e.g parents or of those in authority over him, as the goverment.

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Saturn on the Asc in particular seems to block the flow of life, it's difficult to express the whole personality to other people. And other people are also very perceptive and aware of my Saturn. If I am uncomfortable, it tends to make other people feel this way. If I am defensive, they also interpret my actions as snobby or cold, and in turn - they avoid being friendly. Others understand it is shyness, and will make an effort to make me feel more comfortable in situations. I have an impact on others, and it is choosing in a sense how you want to be viewed, but you only have Saturnian choices .

Everyone will not have the exact same experience of Saturn - because of our different charts, and different ways of handling it. I have tried to fake confidence, and it never comes off. Saturn knows when I am pretending and trying to fool him. I need to have real confidence. In Saturn's house - you have to start from nothing. No confidence at all, and build it up slowly, it is a MASSIVE achievement if you can do this. Perhaps achievement in some sphere of life can help, Saturn needs tangible results. Avoidance doesn't work, hard work and persistence is the key to this planet.

I have had different experience's of authority (Saturn) in my life, natally I also have Saturn opposing my Sun, and it's doubly hard in that sense to express myself (I don't know why I call myself Shining Ray ). I am usually as heavy as lead in the personality . My Jupiter in sunny Leo in the 11th house - is probably closer to home for my choice of name. I have noticed I tend to think I can manage things better than the people in authority. I have had this feeling in a few charitable organizations I was involved with. Mangers may sense that about me, and throw me out . At other times my supervisor really likes me, and in the male dominated environment I used to work in, my Supervisor took me under his wing he could see I wasn't confident. I was the only female at the time in the place, and a lot of them where expecting me to fail, fall down, and be unable to cope with the job. My supervisor always praised me and told me how much he respected that I took on the challenge of the job. I defended (Saturn) off the stereotypes attached to a female doing a "mans" job, and I overcome my anxiety and I did reach the position of top employee in there. The bosses where very impressed with me. If I had stayed longer, perhaps I could have got a supervisory role one day, but my confidence always limits me. I wanted to start a family as well.

Severe shyness, self-confidence issues, are major issues. You have choices how you can live your life under Saturn, you can accept some limits in your personal circumstance, and you can be persistent and keep climbing that mountain towards your goal. Or you run away and hide, and feel bitter for the rest of your life. You can aim to be the top of your chosen profession or build assured self-confidence and earn respect and admiration from people. I carried a chip on my shoulder for a long time,and it gets you nowhere and leaves you only more isolated. With Saturn you get no help, support, assistance, and you have to work twice as hard to earn every bit of recognition you do get. Opportunities don't come knocking at my door, and I always have to prove myself. Depending on your choice you can live miserably with Saturn or try and achieve something worthwhile. Saturn ain't budging off the Asc, you can utilize his energy. Saturn's position can show where you are sensitive around social norms, and the Asc is the identity, the way you look, and approach life, your own success etc. I used to hate people criticizing me by telling I was too stand-offish or shy, or too serious. I hated conforming to all the social norms, mainly because I was crippled this area, and I couldn't be like them. I know it is difficult, but you have to make choice how you are going to live with Saturn for the rest of your life.