Do grand trines include the lunar nodes?

Hello!

I was wondering if a grand trine could include two planets and a lunar node, even though the nodes are not planets?

I have South Node 9 degrees Gemini, Pluto 9 degrees Libra and a conjunction of Mercury 11 degrees Aquarius/Venus 12 degrees Aquarius. Would that mean I have a grand trine in Air?

Many thanks

Neptune

As you must already know(considering you were also involved in that thread about grand trines),I counted the Chiron/South Node conjunction for my Water Grand Trine so yes,I usually include the Nodes for aspect configurations,but only each node as an independent identity,not the opposition as an axis(I usually don't count it for Grand-Crosses/T-squares).

Some people use angles for Grand Trines so I think it's OK to use the Nodes too.

Take care
Lissa

Hi Lissa, thanks for your reply!


Yes that thread did prompt my question, its great to hear other people's views. From one question springs another - the eternal quest for knowledge! (3rd House moon/jupiter)

Hmmm, I see some more research for me on the horizon now to figure out how these trinal aspects relate to each other.

Many thanks indeed!

Neptune

Personally (and some Traditional authors state this I believe), I would not include the nodes in any major aspects. They are best used when other Planets conjunct them, being points rather then fixed bodies they do not have rays and therefore any Planet shining its Rays to that specific location have nothing to accept it and reciprocate back to the Planet its influence. Does that make sense?

use the axis, too, to Neptune

Neptune,

Personally, I think if you use the points (such as the nodes) you have to also use the axis between the points. So I use the axis between the nodes, Ascendant-Descendant, and Nadir-Midheaven when calculating aspect patterns.

However, since I use the axis, any "Grand Trine" to a node would actually be a Kite focused on the opposite node.

Aspectfully yours,

Tim

Re: use the axis, too, to Neptune

I like the way astro.teacher explained. As abstract point there is no body to collect the energy as with planets. There is a pattern config with you use nodes or angles but I think they have to be interpreted differently with the nodes seen as the accepting point and synthysis of the trine rather than an melding of energy. Angles are points where things happen, so they receive rather than send.

It is quite a complicated question, it becomes very theoretical and philosophical. But really interesting to ponder what the pattern adds up to.

So your air trine has a lot to do with the Pluto Venus mercury energy effecting your life direction, but your node does not effect how your pluto plays out....does that make sense.....

Love&Light
Flea

Depends on the 'school of thought" I guess.
I wouldnt make a node or an angle part of a grand trine. To a grand trine or any other chart shape is between actual planets. Of course its more 'conscious' if that includes one of the 'personal' planets
But I would look at separately any trines or other aspects to the nodes as it 'links' the nodes 'story' to the planet. eg south node trine the moon is really the moon been acessed in the past as the line of least resistance.

So,my South Node is26º15'Cancer,Chiron is21ºCancer,Sun26º00'Pisces and Pluto is20º13'Scorpio.With the South-Node/Chiron conjunction,would it be considered a kite?

little wide, to Lissa

Lissa,

I think it is close in aspect to a Kite, but a little too wide.

Widely,

Tim

From what I read, points like the nodes, MC and AC should not be included in grand trines as they cannot project energy, only receive it. However I have seen suggestions that having a MC or AC in a grand-trine like configuration may be better than a normal grand-trine. With a normal grand-trine you have a closed loop for energies. With the AC or MC you have an outlet for the energy so it might be more dynamic. So I have a Moon-Pluto-MC grand-trine like configuration. The lunar and plutonian energies will instead of circulating around in a closed loop will "exit" out of the MC.

Many thanks for all the replies!

astro.teacher thank you for your reply, yes I totally understand, it gives a totally different energy visualising the node as that. So the node is not included in the play with the other two planets because it is different, it's energy is different. It does make sense.

Flea, thanks yes I see, I'll have to do a lot more pondering on that. So the Mercury/Venus energy plays harmoniously with Pluto energy, and the South Node serves to release that energy.

Tim, I'm was wondering then in a slightly confused manner, if you use Ascendant-Descendant, and Nadir-Midheaven, how might I use these? My Pluto 9 degrees libra conjuncts my Midheaven, Mercury/Venus 11/12 degrees Aquarius are on their own, and South Node 9 degrees Gemini conjuncts my Descendant.

Maybe, with the South Node conjuncting the Descendant, the energy that occurs with Mercury/Venus trine Pluto on the MC, that energy gets released into my relationships? Hmm, I think I'm slightly off the mark there.

Neptune (in the land of Neptune!)

Yoi said:

With the AC or MC you have an outlet for the energy so it might be more dynamic. So I have a Moon-Pluto-MC grand-trine like configuration. The lunar and plutonian energies will instead of circulating around in a closed loop will "exit" out of the MC.

Click to expand...

Thanks Natasha and Yoi!

I'ts starting to make sense!

It does seem like a much more dynamic energy when there are release points, like a bit of a relief! It probably also makes a person with this configuration have quite a presence, with these energies being released.

Neptune

Mystic Rectangle, to Neptune

Neptune,

I would say you have a Mystic Rectangle (strong energy) that interconnects your points (Ascendant, Descendant, Midheaven, Nadir, Nodes) which causes you to feel "connected" on all sides (i.e., personally, with others, in the outer world, and in your inner world).

Interconnectedly,

Tim

Re: Mystic Rectangle, to Neptune

wilsontc said:

Neptune,

I would say you have a Mystic Rectangle (strong energy) that interconnects your points (Ascendant, Descendant, Midheaven, Nadir, Nodes) which causes you to feel "connected" on all sides (i.e., personally, with others, in the outer world, and in your inner world).

Interconnectedly,

Tim

Click to expand...

Nice call Tim. Of Course this is strengthened by Pluto and Neptune on the MC and Asc. respectively. I agreeably like the idea of Angles receiving energy as an outlet so "circuits" have outlets. Too, it should be remembered that one response to managing the energy of a T-square is to focus on qualities of the "missing" leg so that strikes me as having value towards using nodes and angles for configurations.