this question might be too basic....

[starfish]

Hello, I am new to horary and still learning so please excuse me for asking what might be too basic.

This chart here I am trying to read a relationship - the question was "is he gonna be my boyfriend?".

My 1st house ruler is Venus in 5th house, virgo.
The lord of the 7th is Mars in 1st house, Taurus.
It didn't seem there is an aspect between the two but some of the horary pages I read on the net says even if two planets didn't have a 120 degree aspect, they could still be in trine if they are in the same element houses.

In this case, Venus and Mars are in earth signs. Does this mean, therefore, they are in trine??

Further, the two plants are applying to Saturn. Even if they didn't have a trine I mentioned above, I thought, there could be Collection of Light, creating an aspect.
But then again, I know Saturn is a malefic sign and it's not good to have aspects with it - further I noticed that Mars is in a hard aspect with Saturn.
So can collection of light still work positively with this malefic planet with a hard aspect?

If those are yes, then I thought this chart might mean a yes, but I am still confused.
Venus, my significator, is in the 5th, in its JOY.
However, it's also in its Fall.
Fall vs JOY, which is stronger influence?

The chart looks very mixed with positives and negatives and I am so confused. Please someone help!!
Thank you heaps!!

The chart is created on 25 July 2007, 10:58 pm in 9 hours ahead of GMT.
139E55
35N44

[archergirl]

Hi there,

No question is too basic for a learning forum!

You are on the right track with your choice of significators. It's the aspects where the reading gets a little glued up.

some of the horary pages I read on the net says even if two planets didn't have a 120 degree aspect, they could still be in trine if they are in the same element houses.

Well, yes. However, the issue in ANY horary chart is: is the aspect applying or separating? This is the fundamental issue, and will give you the answer.

In the case of Venus and Mars, yes, they are in trine by element, but Venus at the time of your question was stationed retrograde, about to 'go backwards' through the sky. This retrograde takes Venus out of Virgo, back into Leo, where she then applies by square to Mars. This gives a 'no' answer: despite the possibility described by the compatible signs, the two planets are moving into 'conflict' by square.

As well, in any horary question, it is of utmost importance to consider the condition of the significators: are they in dignity by sign, triplicity, domicile? Are they in detriment or fall?

In your chart, Virgo is in fall in Virgo, as Virgo is the opposite sign to Pisces, where Venus is exalted. This is not a good condition to be in; it means you have no power to act.

Mars, in Taurus, is in detriment, Taurus being the opposite sign to Scorpio, one of Mars' natural rulers. So the guy in question, while he perhaps likes you (he is in Venus' sign, Taurus), has no power to act, either, or is not necessarily as great as you think he is (detriment can be kind of yucky somehow).

As far as the houses go, yes, Venus joys in the 5th, but what this means for *your* question is that you have pleasure, possibly sex, on your mind. Venus is also in dignity by triplicity; so you are slightly dignified by house and by triplicity; but you are still in fall, still about to go retrograde.

Mars in the 1st house also describes your interest in the guy; as does the Moon, your 'emotions' ruler, placed in 'his' house, the 7th.

Look at the Moon; it is in Sagittarius, just about to conjoin with Jupiter, the greater benefic. But what does Jupiter rule in this chart? The 8th house and the 12th house; houses of secrets and 'illicit' things. It also rules 'his' money, so maybe you're after his money, really.

I'm just kidding, but you see how many different things go into a horary reading; it's not as simple as 'two earth signs = trine = yes answer'. I wish!
The astrologer must consider several things:

applying vs separating aspects
the condition of the significators, including sign, triplicy, term/face, etc.
especially look at the Moon, as she describes, very often, the undercurrents or main thrust of a question

Hope this helps!
AG

[starfish]

Hello archergirl,

Thank you so much for your input!!
I was almost giving up on getting any replies so I really appreciate your detailed explanation .

Mars, in Taurus, is in detriment, Taurus being the opposite sign to Scorpio, one of Mars' natural rulers.

Umm, I think I missed this detriment thing. The page I was referring to check dignities only mentions Libra for Mars detriment

So the guy in question, while he perhaps likes you (he is in Venus' sign, Taurus), has no power to act, either, or is not necessarily as great as you think he is (detriment can be kind of yucky somehow).

This actually reminded me of a party the other night. I saw him there and exchanged a brief hello (we've known each other for a while) but we didn't talk much - I noticed he was kind of checking me out but never came up to talk. So he really has no power to act, eh? (and neither do I, I guess)

The astrologer must consider several things:

applying vs separating aspects
the condition of the significators, including sign, triplicy, term/face, etc.
especially look at the Moon, as she describes, very often, the undercurrents or main thrust of a question

Hope this helps!
AG

It actually did a lot and will for my future learning as well!!
Thank you so much again for your help:cheers:

[archergirl]

Hi there,

Glad to help. Just a clarification:

When I say 'power to act', what I mean is that it can either be actual 'power', or it can mean 'impetus'. In other words, if Mars were in Aries, Scorpio, or Capricorn, say (signs of rulership and exaltation), the guy in question would express those qualities: boldness, or inner strength, or be 'dignified' in some way; he would have the strength of self-image or willpower to be able to act. When Mars is in Taurus, this can mean that he either lacks the power or the *impetus* to act: from low self-esteem, or he is just only mildly interested, but not enough to push through that detrimented state and actually make a move. Taurus is a sluggish place for a dynamic planet.

This goes the same for Venus; while in fall in Virgo, this can mean that you either lack the self-esteem to make a move, or that your interest in him is 'not so much' that you want to risk yourself for it.

This sort of 'rule of condition' can apply to any sort of horary question you might ask. When a significator is detrimented, something is keeping it from reaching its full potential.

Best wishes,
AG

[starfish]

Hello Archergirl,

Sorry for the late reply!
Thank you so much for the clarification
I think I got what you meant by "power" at some level but yes the clarification helped me a lot to understand more vividly.
Thank you again!!!

starfish