Is the mind just a 'program'?

[retinoid]

Is the mind akin to some computer program? Totally not truly real?

For example, you can 'choose' to react to things in certain ways. You can convince yourself to either be happy or be sad and it is usually based on comparisons to other people or worst case scenarios. Your reactions to things are based on how others react, past 'memories', and the way your overall mind is structured (if you are overall angry you will scream and act violent for example).

Your reaction, determines the quality of life you have and therefore will determine the people you attract and situations you attract. So basically, the mind is a computer program and is not real. So the question beyond that is, once the mind is gone, what is left...

[Anachiel]

Originally Posted by retinoid

Is the mind akin to some computer program? Totally not truly real?

Personally, I have always disliked that comparison. Mind existed long before computers and I think the mind is far more than a "computer" or GIGO sort of affair. However, if one identifies the mind as a computer I think one is missing out on on the other 99% of its potential. I mean really, have you seen a computer do what a human can? No. Computers only do what humans tell them to do and that simply much faster. Course there are times I can do something on a piece of paper faster than finding it in some computer file system (lol).

For example, you can 'choose' to react to things in certain ways. You can convince yourself to either be happy or be sad and it is usually based on comparisons to other people or worst case scenarios. Your reactions to things are based on how others react, past 'memories', and the way your overall mind is structured (if you are overall angry you will scream and act violent for example).

If you equate mind and emotions as the same thing then yes, it will be hard to separate instrinct from response. Some people are very good at being detached from thought and emotion and can simply be present as an observer. Others are definitely thought-less. Others are caught in the roller-coaster of emotions and the ride of that endophine/adrenaline rush and ebb. Personally, i think most peopel simply have not been taught or taken any training to know there is the possibility to create better responses. Others are working on it and a few have mastered that.

Your reaction, determines the quality of life you have and therefore will determine the people you attract and situations you attract. So basically, the mind is a computer program and is not real. So the question beyond that is, once the mind is gone, what is left...

Well, that's very Zen, isn't it. For all intents and purposes though, here, and now, a mind is important to have for, without it, there is not much we can relate to or it to us without one. I think mind can color or tint our experience but as far as definitely attracting certain things, I'm not so sure. I think there is something to that but it is certainly not a hard and fast rule. Perhaps, as our minds open to possibilities we can then enjoy options that were previously unknown or closed to us and that seems to initiate the attraction process.

That's just my take on it. I am sure someone like a Zen master or practitioner could elucidate the topic far more constructively. It's hard to talk about mind as there are a lot of concepts that prevent it from being totally understood between people. One could be talking about the color blue and the other red and never even know it because we cannot definitely point to what we are talking about. lol

[Sweet Pea]

*Totally*

Mind is made up of thought-forms, often grouped together to form complexes. These are real, living things on the plane of mind.

One reason we often don't get along with other people is that as we 'speak' our thought-forms, these stream into the other person's mind and meet their thought-forms which are different. There will then be a battle, because to let new thought-forms in is to challenge and potentially change the community of thoughts that already lives there.

Thought-forms gang together to repel invaders. This happens in both individuals and groups. When you get on with a group and join them, your thought-forms blend with theirs and vast group thought-forms emerge. These are powerful and will defend fiercely against all incomers with their different patterns. All the churches are like this, as are political systems. When they try to "spread the word", it literally means that a vast thought-complex wants to enlarge itself further by spreading into more minds. If you could see this on the plane of mind, you might even see a huge elemental is in charge of a particular thought or belief system. When you take on a belief-system, that elemental lodges and lives within your mind, and spreads out further from you to try and gain more footholds. When those Jehovah's Witness people arrive on your doorstep, they are spreaders of a programme that is much bigger and more powerful than the sum total of all the individuals concerned.

Another analogy is the train. Persistent thought complexes are like trains that always go along the same track, to the same timetable (ie, when triggered by certain people in our lives or certain repeated situations). They always see the same scenery and stop at the same stations and allow the same passengers on and off. If you listen carefully to yourself in conversations, watch the same responses automatically flowing out, unthinkingly, unconsciously. Try and stop yourself next time and say something different and you'll find it's pretty hard!

[Fifth House Sun]

i know that you(or i do) definitely have to continuously make a conscious effort to overcome the program. many studies have shown that the human mind works in patterns. even pathways form in the brain, for people who excessively habitual the paths become so worn that the entrances to other paths become overgrown and more difficult to gain access to once time elapses.

it is very important to exercise your mind in new ways. and learn new things, study new topics, so that you do not program your mind to always go down the same path, the longer you tread the same path the more fortified it becomes.

[Prominent]

That's an interesting way of describing it Sweet Pea.

Lately I've wondered about machines and artificial intelligence. It appears as if machines are the mind's way of trying to externalize its own responsibilities in an attempt to extend its limits.
If you want to know if a mind is just a program, it might be interesting to explore what machines and that sort of thing entail, and how far they can be evolved/engineered.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Prominent

That's an interesting way of describing it Sweet Pea. Lately I've wondered about machines and artificial intelligence. It appears as if machines are the mind's way of trying to externalize its own responsibilities in an attempt to extend its limits.
If you want to know if a mind is just a program, it might be interesting to explore what machines and that sort of thing entail, and how far they can be evolved/engineered.

interesting 96 word extract sourced from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

"A test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behaviour was introduced by Alan Turing in 1950 paper Computing Machinery and Intelligence with the words:

'I propose to consider the question, 'Can machines think?' - an essential concept in the philosophy of artificial intelligence.


'Thinking' is difficult to define. Turing replaces the question by another, closely related question, expressed in relatively unambiguous words. i.e. 'Are there imaginable digital computers which would do well in the imitation game?'

For the remainder of the paper, Turing argues against all major objections to the proposition that 'machines can think'...."

[Prominent]

I think part of what makes us human is our vulnerability to the effects of "atmospheric pressures".. that is to say- we become uncomfortable when we are pushed long or hard enough whereas a machine has a higher tolerance and lacks that ability to discern dangerous conditions placed upon itself.
IF machines were able to discern such dangers and also adapt.. well.. I feel we'd begin to see the emergence of an animal behavior.

I feel this would require a machine with a body that distributes energy patterns throughout the whole form, similar to a nervous system.

[Sweet Pea]

Well some people think we hold our 'programmes' not just in the brain but scattered all over the body. So if a massage therapist is working on your leg, you might suddenly start to cry because an old, wounding memory has suddenly been uploaded into your conscious mind.

Mind is clearly not just in the brain, as people have found when they had out-of-body experiences (say during an operation) and their mind was functioning perfectly well although they were apparently outside of themselves.

Fifth House Sun - I liked your analogy of the paths being overgrowth and deeply formed. They say you can form new brain neurons throughout your life, but only by challenging the brain to do something tricky and different to what it has ever done before. The word "fortified" also speaks volumes about how some people erect vast thought complexes and defend them with an alarming rigour. They defend them not just against other people with their imposing thoughts, but also within the mind. Powerful thoughts can become rulers who sit on a throne in the mind and keep all other thoughts in line. The idea of the petty tyrant or dictator comes to mind. The one-track-mind is a result of this: a mind where one thought has taken on such a lot of energy that it cannot help expressing itself at every opportunity regardless of whether you, or your listeners, are thoroughly sick of it or not.

Thoughts as angels or demons, another analogy! Also the garden analogy.......flowers and weeds and toxic creepers of undergrowth that rise up to kill other, more cheerful plants (thoughts).

[Prominent]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Mind is clearly not just in the brain, as people have found when they had out-of-body experiences (say during an operation) and their mind was functioning perfectly well although they were apparently outside of themselves.

sometimes I wonder if the things I think about are instigated by other people elsewhere thinking the same things(or similar).. As if I am in some electrical storm where thoughts are circulated through some sort of matrix and multiple minds fire at the same time or in concession..

[retinoid]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Well some people think we hold our 'programmes' not just in the brain but scattered all over the body. So if a massage therapist is working on your leg, you might suddenly start to cry because an old, wounding memory has suddenly been uploaded into your conscious mind.

Mind is clearly not just in the brain, as people have found when they had out-of-body experiences (say during an operation) and their mind was functioning perfectly well although they were apparently outside of themselves.

Fifth House Sun - I liked your analogy of the paths being overgrowth and deeply formed. They say you can form new brain neurons throughout your life, but only by challenging the brain to do something tricky and different to what it has ever done before. The word "fortified" also speaks volumes about how some people erect vast thought complexes and defend them with an alarming rigour. They defend them not just against other people with their imposing thoughts, but also within the mind. Powerful thoughts can become rulers who sit on a throne in the mind and keep all other thoughts in line. The idea of the petty tyrant or dictator comes to mind. The one-track-mind is a result of this: a mind where one thought has taken on such a lot of energy that it cannot help expressing itself at every opportunity regardless of whether you, or your listeners, are thoroughly sick of it or not.

Thoughts as angels or demons, another analogy! Also the garden analogy.......flowers and weeds and toxic creepers of undergrowth that rise up to kill other, more cheerful plants (thoughts).

I have been bombarding my brain with positive affirmations, thoughts and visualizations and viewing things 'positively' as opposed to my usual negative state and I have overall been POSITIVE...while I see everyone else around me overall negative. Hence the realization that the mind itself is just a tool and its algorithms can be override with practice. Even our whole identities are illusions based on what other minds think we are and what our mind has us as.

People who have been 'aware' and done heavy drugs such as dissociatives, psychedelics or opiates can actually make themselves 'sober' (I have done this) through sheer force because I realized a part of me was totally unaffected by the drugs and it was just the 'mind' that was controlled but the mind is not the SELF...I think controlling the mind is integral in the spiritual path because when you control the mind eventually you control your 'world'...

EDIT: Another thing, I do believe we hold 'feelings' in other places. I held a lot of frustration and tension in my solar plexus chakra where a psychic even told me out of the blue that there is a lot of tension there (I wasn't too into chakras at that point and always felt tightness and every time I had extreme levels of frustration that 'area' always felt inflamed, don't know how else to explain that...) Three nights ago when I was clearing each chakra, all of a sudden I felt 'frustrated and angry' when I got to that chakra telling me I was still storing negative energy there.

[Sweet Pea]

Prominent, I think you're totally right. I find more and more telepathy within my family where I think something and a second later, one of the others says it although it was not part of the ongoing conversation. I also think that thought-fields may be projected towards us by people who want to direct our thoughts down certain train-tracks. And, if you focus on one particular topic for a while, I think you can magnetise towards you what other people have thought about it.

Retinoid, I once heard a good affirmation that goes "I use my mind but I am not my mind". You must be doing yourself, your environment, and the world a lot of good by focussing on the positive as it's too easy to do the opposite. And what if we are creating this world by our thought-creations? Brrr.

It's also true that we form part of other people's worlds: they have their view of us and it may not coincide with our own view of ourselves. So we shouldn't take things personally because other people are speaking from their own little world which is actually part of the great illusion we all live in.

Interesting story about your solar plexus chakra experience.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Prominent

sometimes I wonder if the things I think about are instigated by other people elsewhere thinking the same things(or similar).. As if I am in some electrical storm where thoughts are circulated through some sort of matrix and multiple minds fire at the same time or in concession..

Resonance is another explanation – as when a guitar string is plucked and the equivalent note immediately resonates and vibrates on an unattended nearby guitar.

Remember that for various reasons not everyone spends time online – instead many tens of millions of people are tuned to similar messages being broadcast in numerous different languages via tv/radio media in many countries/continents on this planet

Remember the One Hundred Monkeys... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0vNqVDhlg4

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by retinoid

EDIT: Another thing, I do believe we hold 'feelings' in other places. I held a lot of frustration and tension in my solar plexus chakra where a psychic even told me out of the blue that there is a lot of tension there (I wasn't too into chakras at that point and always felt tightness and every time I had extreme levels of frustration that 'area' always felt inflamed, don't know how else to explain that...) Three nights ago when I was clearing each chakra, all of a sudden I felt 'frustrated and angry' when I got to that chakra telling me I was still storing negative energy there.

Some interesting comments on angry emotions at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMT7qkqPUY&feature=related

[Prominent]

Jupiter, I don't believe the hundred monkey theory because it has a flaw- If one monkey learns to do something, then it would prove that ANY monkey can learn the same thing spontaneously regardless if any other monkey has learnt it already.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Prominent, I think you're totally right. I find more and more telepathy within my family where I think something and a second later, one of the others says it although it was not part of the ongoing conversation. I also think that thought-fields may be projected towards us by people who want to direct our thoughts down certain train-tracks. And, if you focus on one particular topic for a while, I think you can magnetise towards you what other people have thought about it.

I've noticed that I usually feel like I'm on the polar opposite of most mainstream views or latest trends in thinking. It's like I do it purposefully though- like there is some natural need inside me to offset what most people congregate towards so that I can balance things or something or bring about the next parts. Perhaps it is just easier to sense the contrasting thoughts.
Usually I end up thinking of things and then weeks later I see it in all the media.
Like for instance I had this idea for some game that involved marionette puppets, and then weeks later I began to see all these various things with marionette puppets in them (after I had stopped thinking about them).
Sometimes I have thoughts and I recognize them as quite spontaneous, as if they were pushed onto me by something else- usually because they involve a person i know, as If they are sending me a message.
This happened to me yesterday.. I was thinking of something related to someone, which I didn't know was true, and then later they brought a situation up that mimicked what I had thought.

edit:
it was making me wonder how much control we really have over our thoughts...

[Fifth House Sun]

science has proven that the central nervous system is above the crotch and below the neck.

not to mention most everything else.

[Sweet Pea]

Prominent, have you got a Mercury-Uranus aspect by any chance?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Prominent

Jupiter, I don't believe the hundred monkey theory because it has a flaw- If one monkey learns to do something, then it would prove that ANY monkey can learn the same thing spontaneously regardless if any other monkey has learnt it already.

Not necessarily Prominent...

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Prominent, have you got a Mercury-Uranus aspect by any chance?

That's rather vague IMO

[Prominent]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Not necessarily Prominent...

..I guess it makes a person wonder why the monkey learnt it in the first place, but I suppose you're right in that not necessarily all of them can learn it.
I just am saying that a monkey doesn't have to wait until others learn something before it can learn too.
If it were the case then that would mean that there's no point in any of us people trying to learn anything.. that we should all just wait until one specific person out of all of us learns something. It doesn't make any sense. But I guess it makes you wonder what are we learning anyways?

Sweet Pea, I don't know.. here's my chart: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...d.php?p=396140
I haven't learnt how to read it.. :P

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Prominent

..I guess it makes a person wonder why the monkey learnt it in the first place, but I suppose you're right in that not necessarily all of them can learn it.
I just am saying that a monkey doesn't have to wait until others learn something before it can learn too.
If it were the case then that would mean that there's no point in any of us people trying to learn anything.. that we should all just wait until one specific person out of all of us learns something. It doesn't make any sense. But I guess it makes you wonder what are we learning anyways?

Chimpanzee Performs Memory Test With Ease - BUT can a human replicate what a chimpanzee does so easily? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJAH4...eature=related

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Prominent

I've noticed that I usually feel like I'm on the polar opposite of most mainstream views or latest trends in thinking. It's like I do it purposefully though- like there is some natural need inside me to offset what most people congregate towards so that I can balance things or something or bring about the next parts. Perhaps it is just easier to sense the contrasting thoughts.

Usually I end up thinking of things and then weeks later I see it in all the media. Like for instance I had this idea for some game that involved marionette puppets, and then weeks later I began to see all these various things with marionette puppets in them (after I had stopped thinking about them).

Sometimes I have thoughts and I recognize them as quite spontaneous, as if they were pushed onto me by something else- usually because they involve a person i know, as If they are sending me a message.
This happened to me yesterday.. I was thinking of something related to someone, which I didn't know was true, and then later they brought a situation up that mimicked what I had thought. it was making me wonder how much control we really have over our thoughts...

I was right, you have Mercury at 22 Pisces (that makes you telepathic) in exact square to Uranus at 22 Sagittarius.

Mercury-Uranus is the "vibe" that has to be different. It will offer the opposite thought to what other people present have just said. It is also the vibe that can receive future thoughts that want to manifest, thoughts from other/higher/cosmic realms. It can intuit something in a lightning flash without having to go through a reasoning stage. It's the AHA! vibe. It can understand something without knowing why or how that understanding was reached. It's very good for abstract and mathematical thought.

The combination of a neptunian mercury (Neptune is the ruler of Pisces) and Uranus connected with Mercury makes you a natural "receiver" of thoughts both horizontally (from other people) and interdimensionally.

Not all thoughts are good ones, obviously. You will have to continually discriminate between what are your own 'programmes' and what are exterior 'programmes' that are seeping into your mind and trying to influence you.

[Prominent]

sounds heavy.. I'll have to take all that into consideration when I'm thinking of various things.