Karmic Relationships

[lalicalena]

Hello everybody!
I'm interested in karmic relationships and synastry and I would be very grateful if someone could explain a few things for me. I'm not looking for any kind of reading, I would just like to know if someone knows how to resolve karma between two people and do karmic relationships have some kind of time limit or something?
I'm asking it because one person is paying me back for too long, and I don't even know what I did to deserve that, and I'm just curious about when it will be finally over. And I would also like to know if it is somehow possible to clean that mess and have a happy life with one another after all?
I had contacts with a few astrologers and the only thing that they agreed on was that the relationship was karmic, but the interpretations were so different and incorrect. I don't know why is that so, but I'm not interested in the future anymore, I'm just trying to get rid of it, since it became so difficult and tiring.
Thank you in advance

[Munch]

Karma is not something that works out on a certain schedule as I understand it.

Rather Karma is a representative of the consequences of our actions as well as the inherent lessons that accompany these consequences. Once we truly learn a lesson the karma is resolved because usually you don't put yourself in the same circumstances.

Karma is not punishment and thus it has no specific time parameters. It is entirely up to you when you shall resolve your karma.

Karmic relationships are not about settling debts either. They are about reaching understanding.

Perhaps your karmic lesson with this person is to learn when enough is enough. Or perhaps its to learn to forgive yourself so that you can allow yourself to leave a painful situation. It could be any number of things, but it will be up to you to look at yourself and situation carefully and honestly. Drop all of your judgements about yourself and others at the door and get real clear about the role you play in your situation and why.

Good luck!

[lalicalena]

Thank you for your reply, it helped in clearing up a situation a little bit. The main problem is that I still didn't find out which is that final lesson that needs to be taught, because the relationship we had already taught me what (as I thought) needed to be taught. But still, that person keeps coming back and every time there is a different type of relationship, different level of intimacy or incompatibility, no matter what I do, even if we just casual speak to each other so I feel like I'm missing something even when it's actually pretty clear. So I've done some reading and almost everybody says that it is usually like that if you hurt somebody in so called past life and now you have to feel what is like to be on that "other side" so I don't know how to reach understanding on that terms. I feel like he did his job very well and I'm letting him go every time, but he is the one who keeps coming back. So I thought that maybe there is something that I should learn him, but every attempt is almost impossible. We are never honest to each other and I never knew what was wrong. Even when I forgive, move on, he almost unintentionally brings more pain. It's like there is something between us and we both can feel it, but if I just let him a little close, the whole situation will hurt me less or more. And God knows how many times I accepted it as it is and tried to move on. It's just so confusing. Thank you, anyway

[Munch]

Maybe you two came together so that you can learn loving detachment or how to find peace with a situation where there is seemingly no peace to be had.

Once again, karma is not about paying for something we have done. It's about learning lessons. Our karmic partners are not necessarily people we have wronged or the other way around. They are people we have made a pact with to experience something that we can simultaneously learn what we need to for this particular lifetime.

Rarely is an entire lifetime about one relationship. Step back and look to see if this relationship doesn't reflect a larger pattern at work in your life. Perhaps that is where the lesson that this relationship is trying to bring to light truly lays.

[gen6k]

one way to help each other out on getting on the same level is to kind of explain everything, and basically it takes a lot of time if there is a sense of solidification within one or the other. this depends on how far you were apart in the first place.

then you will start to see transits line up of you or the other person opening up to this new understanding.

for example. me and a girl i know have sun square moon in synastry. so we come from different types of backgrounds. her virgo jupiter is also rough towards my gemini jupiter the planet of philosophical reachings.

okay so, she started having like uranus sextile transits and things of that sort which cut away the preconceptions that she had and basically opening her up to experiences that she wouldnt of felt like she belonged to before.

now, it is still hard because a lot of the things i said activated a mars square mercury in her. the mars is me, and the mercury is her mind. this is ending on may 16, and now she has a chiron square mercury that is building up.

what those transits represents is her at first holding on to her views dogmatically, and opposing mine. then that decreased over time, and now the chiron square mercury signifies that she feels "weak" mentally from the information of my views.

so what would be good during that time is to comfort her and show her where everything intersects.

basically if the universe wants you to be together, it may take some time, probably months, but it is very possible if your "heart" is there. whatever anger each of you have must be used constructively else-where.

[lalicalena]

Thank you both for your explanations and answers, I really appreciate it a lot.
I've just recently started to understand astrology (before approximately a year ago) so I'm not so good with the terms and interpretations, but I'm exploring it and understand the basic things.
One woman explained this relationship to me a few months ago (but only in a few words,the rest I kind of interpreted by myself while doing the research)- we also have the problem with differences, but in this case I was the one who had to let go the old beliefs and learn how to cope with emotions and accept different views. It was also about breaking a pattern, like Munch said. There is as well my venus in capricorn vs. his venus in leo what was, I believe, the main reason why things fell apart, I seemed too distant and cold, what turned him down. But like in every karmic relationship (or so I read) I was in the end the one with greater feelings (only didn't show them when needed), unlike him who seemed like he got over it over the night- so I believe it was more about me than him, in other words that I was the one who needed to learn. The woman only told me that it was karmic and that he will keep coming back and that there is nothing I can do about it, except ignore it. Somehow I feel like this is not the best thing I can do, since I tried it and it really didn't work. I'm the kind of person who can't easily let go, but in this case I really did everything possible and still, he's always here in a way. He definitely came to give me a lesson and I accepted that, but as time was going by I started to feel concerned because it's lasting so long,I would say around a year, and since I already realized what I've done wrong and what he and that relationship should teach me I don't know why he has to return for more everytime I start to feel better, even when I'm not letting him close, or don't do that directly. And I'm also worried because that woman gave me that kind of explanation that it will always be unresolved no matter what I do, but somehow, I feel differently and I don't know is that just because I want it to happen so badly or is there really something more.
The hardest part is reaching understanding or, as you advised, explaining everything. We were never honest to each other, he is a type of person who most of the time runs away from problems instead of confronting them and I was too proud to admit he hurt me, so I didn't say it when it was the right time and now is too late. Also, what bothers me is the thing that I'm always the one with deeper feelings while he obviously gave up on me, so it seems like no matter what one of us does, I will always be the one who gets hurt and there are always these negative energies and feelings, since I'm disappointed, suffering and so on. Maybe the only right resolution is to stop to have feelings and get over it (which is quite difficult because he is the one who's calling me, coming to me,etc.) and be happy because of his happiness which sounds pretty utopian. I really want to let him go but I can't control feelings I have towards him,so I'm never completely happy without him, and when he comes it's always difficult and it's like a vicious circle. I had thought that we could work it out and be happy together, but so many things happened that I'm not sure anymore and I don't know why it has to continue to be so painful experience for me. I know that only time will tell, but the time is always so slow for the ones who wait, so I hope you understand why that worries me so much. I guess I'll just have to wait and work on my ability to move on.

[gen6k]

Hi.

Well one thing that has helped me understand something foreign to me is knowledge. Over time I would reach plateaus of understanding until I could understand motivations. Then I became less sad about it because I was aware of the circumstances. When one person trys covertly or automatically to make another feel guilty there is some kind of rupture there, and the best way to take it is not to get hurt but to basically be aware of the situation. It is true that people fall in to helpless co-dependent modes, but they get back up again when they are sure of themselves. At least if it does break up you will be able to zoom in one the type of energies that you want to reach a higher plateau of love that you didn't know was out there. Of course it is hard to open the mind up to these types of experiences of chaos, but letting the chaos in without trying to systematize it is also a good practice.

People just have different archetypes hidden within them. For example the numerological 2 is opposite the numerological 7. The 2 looks at love as something natural, easy, concrete. While the 7 has to search for a long time, and thus their love is a lot harder to "win". The 2 cant even understand why this person might not be complying or why this person is so cold, but underneath the facade they can see that there is a river of warmth.

Then the numerological 11 is even worse at some points because it can lead to self-destruction if they are focused too much on their lower vibration of 2. 11 is about balance. The task of the 11 is to love everyone instead of getting obsessed with one person, but it is not the same type of love as the 5. The 5 could choose the shackles of loving one person, or they can take in the love of many on the road kind of bouncing their energy off others. The 11 is more of a spiritual path towards love and their strength comes from their gentle guidance of others rather than the lower vibration of permissiveness. So in the end the 2 can help the 7 to understand over long periods of time. Though in these kind of setups, someone does get the stupid end of the stick, the downtime, etc. It is great to have outlets and time to ponder within these stops.

An important thing to take in to account is the Venus retrograde in Gemini on the 15th. Its currently in its slowing down zone, and will reach stationary on may 15th. This problem that you have will most likely clear up by the start of July where it will either be solidified (saturn direct with soft transits to saturn) after it is internalized and upheld by the Venus retrograde. The point of communication on this issue is the May 21 solar eclipse. Then it will proceed from there. Where you are at now is kind of the gray zone.

[lalicalena]

Well I agree with you on this one completely. When the whole thing struck me, at the very beginning, I was devastated. And it was like I felt intuitively that there's something more so I started to dig beneath the surface. It is true that you feel some kind of relief when you finally understand the whole situation and it's causes and consequences which actually make sense. What you told about these numbers is something I can completely relate to, and also apply it on this problem.
I've also read about the Venus retrograde from May 15th in Gemini and since I'm Sagittarius I'm aware of things that might happen during this period. (I'm talking about this on general level since I'm not skilled enough to see how it affects my natal chart.) It's interesting that he reappeared at the beginning of April when Venus, as I found out, entered my partnership section, and tried to get into my life again, but I kind of chased him away after few weeks and now, again, we're not in contact. So I think that this Venus retrograde will only be again about me analyzing what went wrong. And as I was really rethinking about this whole thing after you guys replied to me, I thought that the final thing I have to do is talk with him and tell him what needed be told long ago, but I've recently changed my mind because I see that there are plenty of reasons why he wouldn't understand such an "out of the blue" act, so I don't know if this solar eclipse is doing me any help. I really messed up with acting cold and hiding true feelings so we have very complicated relationship right now, and maybe the biggest problem lies in the fact that we cannot talk openly, I believe that it could've freed me if I had done it when it was the right time. I'm not sure what did you really mean by saying that the problem will maybe be solidfied, did you think in more complicated,harder sense? I agree that it probably would end by the time Venus goes direct, because I already feel that I'm making peace with this unrequited love, because I'm starting to understand and letting it go since that is actually the best thing I can do. They say that Jupiter's transit to my partnership sector during June should bring a little bit of joy, so I'm hoping that Jupiter's luck will ease my life a little bit. It' just fascinating how all this transits and energies are only affecting me, while he's living his life as usual and has no idea what I'm dealing with. Universe really got a hell of a sense of humor.

[xtica]

i hope everything works out for you or at least eases up.
your situation is the exact opposite of what i shared with a man -- he is venus in capricorn, i'm venus in leo. you really struck a chord in me because it sounds like what we've done on and off for over nineteen years. he came back into my life three years ago, and i thought that maturity would allow him to voice what i can FEEL from him, but it only comes out at times when he senses that i'm leaving and giving up on him.
i don't know what you will do, but for me, i am trying to use the venus retrograde to let him go in this world/lifetime/timeloop..whatever. because i know in my heart and from other types of intuitive messages that i get from him that somewhere in a parallel universe, we've worked it out and we are together without our current hang ups and crossed signals.
good luck!

[Veronica]

Originally Posted by lalicalena

Hello everybody!
I'm interested in karmic relationships and synastry and I would be very grateful if someone could explain a few things for me. I'm not looking for any kind of reading, I would just like to know if someone knows how to resolve karma between two people and do karmic relationships have some kind of time limit or something?
I'm asking it because one person is paying me back for too long, and I don't even know what I did to deserve that, and I'm just curious about when it will be finally over. And I would also like to know if it is somehow possible to clean that mess and have a happy life with one another after all?
I had contacts with a few astrologers and the only thing that they agreed on was that the relationship was karmic, but the interpretations were so different and incorrect. I don't know why is that so, but I'm not interested in the future anymore, I'm just trying to get rid of it, since it became so difficult and tiring.
Thank you in advance

Karmic patterns in Synastry usually pop up

When you see cross aspects between chart interlays.
Aspects between Outer planets Saturn/Pluto/Neptune/ Uranus
Conjunctions or Oppositions to the North Node ( Tight Orbs)
Tights Conjunctions or Oppositions to the Vertex/ Anti-Vertex

There is this book written by Judy Hall the book is intensely dedicated to Karmic connections in Synastry is Called Karmic Connections, you might want to order it on Amazon and explore it. Also another one of my favorite books is volume 4 from the late Robert Blaschke an The Book is dedicated to Relationship Analysis and he integrates Synastry, Composites, Progressions, Progressed Composites, Sabian Symbols, he also has some chapters where he also explores Karma in Synastry.. ( really love this book*) Liz Greene also explores Composite charts in her Book " Relationships and how to Survive them" So if you like Liz Greene style you might go for the book She also has the book "Relating: An Astrological Guide to Living with other in a small planet" Steven Arroyo also did a very good Job and I love his book on Relationships and Life Cycles..

[astro11]

The Nodes, Vertex and inner to outer planet aspects are of primary importance in karmic relationships as Veronica noted.

If you feel that you are being paid back and this is more painful for you, it probably is more of a South Node influence. Do you have any South Node connections with the other person? If so, what are the planets involved? Look to these planets for guidance about the nature of the karma and how you can resolve it.

The vertex is a point of fate and while there are so many things we can control in life, events and people shown by the vertex is not one of them. These encounters will happen at the appointed time (transits, progressions) and will dramatically change our life. If you have close vertex aspects with someone, they are definitely there for a karmic lesson and you must try to learn it whether the person is pleasant or not. Look to the planet for the nature of the karma.

It is often the case that when one person has very strong feelings (good or bad) for someone else but the other person doesn't feel it or only feels it somewhat, it is an inner to outer planet aspect. Are many of your inner planets making an aspect to another person's outer planets? For example, if your Venus is making a conjunction to his Pluto but his Venus is not making an aspect to your Pluto, you will feel the effects of this placement very strongly but he won't. In this case there is definitely karma from the past but in this life you are the only one with the debt to pay (for that particular aspect specifically).

There are also times when both people have the same inner to outer planet contacts but one person pretends that they don't share those feelings. For example, person A's Venus is square person B's Neptune and person B's Venus is oppose person A's Neptune. In this case, the person isn't willing or able to be honest about their true feelings. It is often the person who has a higher level of consciousness and who understands the powerful role of karma who wants to resolve the issue so it does not get repeated in future lives. In this case, you must keep in mind that all you can control is your actions and responses. You can not be held responsible for what another person does or doesn't do. Simply do your best to do the work internally that is needed to be at peace with yourself.

An excellent book about karma and relationships is "Karma and Reincarnation" by Barbara Martin and Dimitri Moraitis. I recently read it and it is extremely insightful.

[serafin5]

Greetings Lalicalena:

Is there any way you can post both charts as what Veronica was saying about karmic patters in synastry might really help you understand this relationship and it would be interesting for us to see as a lot of us (me) are still students. Your story sounds so familiar to me.....

I hope everything works out for you. I've learned that I'm the only person I can control so once I finally realized this it brought me so much peace. This person is gonna do what they are gonna do; right?

Just keep shining your light. Blessings to you.

S5

[Amy]

"....The vertex is a point of fate and while there are so many things we can control in life, events and people shown by the vertex is not one of them. These encounters will happen at the appointed time (transits, progressions) and will dramatically change our life. If you have close vertex aspects with someone, they are definitely there for a karmic lesson and you must try to learn it whether the person is pleasant or not. Look to the planet for the nature of the karma.."
__________________________________________________ ________

How can i do this for my chart? I have been told that i have a Vertex coming up in my 8th house and I have been searching all over to see where that will happen and why?

intersting, is it a BIG V on the right side of my chart in my 8th house?
can it tell me what and when?

I dont have anyone in my life.....not one person that i can say loves me back....perhaps this will indicate someone coming in my life or an EVENT?

[astro11]

The Vertex will only be active by transit or progression if you have a planet in aspect to it natally. For example if you have Jupiter conjunct the Vertex and transiting Pluto conjuncts it, it will be set off.

I'm not sure which program you are using to calculate the chart but on astro.com it says verte and Solar Fire says Vx. The vertex is always between the 5th and 8th houses.

To find out what type of event and/or person will come into your life you need to analyze your chart as a whole and consider all the other transits and progressions occurring at the same time. This requires a lot of time and effort to figure out, you can't simply guess by looking at just a few things.

[Munch]

Don't forget Chiron!

I have found that the people who have the most profound influence on my life also aspect my chiron in some way.

My boyfriend and I both have our chiron's opposite the other person's Venus and he has helped me come a long way towards loving and appreciating myself on MY terms, not someone else's. My chiron is in taurus in the 8th and hits his Venus/Pluto midpoint (which is actually smack dab in the middle of their somewhat loose conjunction) by way of opposition.

[poyi]

I think couple with real karmic ties would have patterns showed in both charts, including their parents, grandparents, auntie, uncles and even younger relatives.

The rationales are your 4th house is the your spouse's 10th house, your 10th house as your spouse's 4th house. And so the chart can be turned round and round and you will see cycles within the chart, each of your chart should response back to the other person chart like echo.

For exampl, your 5th house messages should fit the other person 5th house for you will both have children together that is the key common point of a long term married couple that they will share for many years to come.

The time of becoming parent should also match. That will confirm these two people will get married and become parents at the same time so two separated lines sharing common points and continue to go in one direction as an unit.

If you dont share some major events in life, that person might very well just a short term romantic object, not a long life partner, or at some point will end in divorce.

[gen6k]

well supposively every relationship is karmic and finishing off something from the past. if you dont like certain qualities about a person or the tie is just developing, beginning to understand, then wait till a lifetime when the situation is mature enough. what youre supposed to do now is find a little deeply buried stone of what you are supposed to do and why it is important for your development in this lifetime. it is something that you can only feel in your heart, but not explain.

[Zonark]

My partner's MC directly conjuncts my Vertex and my IC closely conjuncts her Vertex.

My Mars also directly conjuncts her Chiron and my Chiron directly conjuncts her Chiron, all 3 planets are at 22 degrees (my Mars/her Chiron in Taurus and my Chiron in Cancer). My Mars is part of a Grand Trine in the Earth signs (Saturn in Cap, Merc in Virgo, Mars in Taurus).

We both feel a strong karmic connection to each other.

[serafin5]

Originally Posted by gen6k

well supposively every relationship is karmic and finishing off something from the past. if you dont like certain qualities about a person or the tie is just developing, beginning to understand, then wait till a lifetime when the situation is mature enough. what youre supposed to do now is find a little deeply buried stone of what you are supposed to do and why it is important for your development in this lifetime. it is something that you can only feel in your heart, but not explain.

This is what I've always thought. Very rarely do I have real heavy conjunctions to a person's Vertex and/or Chiron, etc., aspects that are supposed to be real heavy karmic markers. Most of the time I just have good synastry with the people in my life and only real special people I'll have the real heavy markers with and so I've always just thought that all relationships are karmic anyway.

Anyway, that's what I thought/noticed personally. Thanks gen6K!
S5

[Munch]

Originally Posted by serafin5

This is what I've always thought. Very rarely do I have real heavy conjunctions to a person's Vertex and/or Chiron, etc., aspects that are supposed to be real heavy karmic markers. Most of the time I just have good synastry with the people in my life and only real special people I'll have the real heavy markers with and so I've always just thought that all relationships are karmic anyway.

Anyway, that's what I thought/noticed personally. Thanks gen6K!
S5

I was thinking about this and realized that I don't have too many people in my life period. So I think for me it makes sense that the few that I DO have in my life are super strong karmic ties so to speak, involving Chiron usually. I'm not saying that you are arguing this point or anything, I was just thinking about your statement in context to my life. I hope that makes sense.

I'm also now wondering if we could begin to ascertain the kind of person we may attract by looking at which karmic planet are activated in our charts the most in synastry by all of our friends and family. Hmmm......

[serafin5]

You DO make sense to me Munch and the irony is that I dont have many people in my life either. But truthfully this period of time for me has been kind of like a 'desert' period; usually I am "sucking the marrow out of life" as the poem and my ScorpAsc says/demands. However, I think that becsuse Ive lost so many loved ones to death I have been playing it pretty safely. Ive been trying to deal with this thing I do or used to where my highs would be really high and my lows could get pretty low too and so theres the rub when one is trying to stay on an even keel. I think part of it is I live in a really small moth-eaten town where everybody flocks to WalMart!

I think your suggestion was a good one as Im sure the results should be telling.

Respectfully
Serafin5

[serafin5]

PS Munch- My NNode and Vertex are both in Cancer and my Chiron is in Pisces; two signs I seem to meet least! When I do we get along just fine, dont get me wrong, its just my theory that I seem to have Karma with certain signs/planetary aspects, etc., just not Cancer or Pisces so that could be a problem (or one of them)!

Blessings to you
S5

[may28gemini]

hmmm... very interesting.i don't ever "feel" like i've encountered anyone in my life as part of a "karmic connection."

my north node is in leo. except for my mom, her mom (my maternal grandmother), and my ex-husband, i don't know any other leos. i rarely even run into them at all. my chiron is in taurus and conjunct mars (uh oh). although i don't encounter taurus often, when i do, we get along really well but our friendships are short lived (as in we lose touch).

[lejla]

Originally Posted by lalicalena

Hello everybody!
I'm interested in karmic relationships and synastry and I would be very grateful if someone could explain a few things for me. I'm not looking for any kind of reading, I would just like to know if someone knows how to resolve karma between two people and do karmic relationships have some kind of time limit or something?

Hi lalicalena.

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

Yes there is time limit. Bad news is, you are the one determining it. Nobody else. There is no such thing as hurting somebody in the past and now we come back together to solve our unsolved troubles... Or make pact with each other in some other dimension and then we come back to Earth to hunt each other. I mean, why would we do that? For what would that be good?
I read what you are writing. What you want is freedom. What is holding you back is: blame. Something like: "I did my part, I even forgave and did everything possible from my part, but he keeps coming back. So maybe HE didn't resolve HIS part in OUR karmic relationship.".

You are going in right direction, there is one thing that is resolving karma: forgiveness. If you would have forgiven, you wouldn't be bothered by his attempts to come back. Because you completely wouldn't care what he is doing. Because you would be at peace with(in) yourself, the relationship and him. You would have forgiven him, yourself, the circumstances... so it wouldn't matter any more what he is doing. You would have "resolved karma".

First step toward the forgiveness might be to realize; for the beginning simply to see, that truly:

1. nobody is guilty for anything in my life
2. I am choosing my own reality
3. I am the constructor of my own cage
4. all garbage (material, mental, emotional...) that I have ever seen resides inside of my own mind
5. all beauty and perfection (material, mental, emotional...) that I have ever seen resides inside of my own mind
6. nobody else except of myself is responsible for the state of my mind
7. I am not responsible for anybody else s state of mind except of my own, because like I choose my own reality so do the others choose theirs.

You choose your karma, he chooses his.
You have all your answers for yourself in you already.
Wish you good luck and take care!
L

[lejla]

Originally Posted by lejla

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

Dear Moderator,

these comments were not in any imaginable way ment to be attacking. I am very sorry if somebody felt attacked, that was absolutely not my intention at all.

I apologize to everyone who might have been hurt by my stating that, according to my so far experience and knowledge I don't think that there is such ting as "karmic relationships". I especially apologize to the person who started this thread and hope from my heart that she didn't felt attacked.

Sorry one more time.
Lejla