What is the meaning of a stellium in 8th?

[miquar]

Originally Posted by I cee

Can I ask Miquar why you chose Jupiter rather than Neptune as Asc ruler?

Hi I cee. I mentioned that Jupiter is the traditional ruler of Pisces to suggest that the placement of Jupiter in this chart influences the image shown to the world. Jupiter has rulership over the Ascendant and MC and so its placement in warm and generous Leo may say something about the way that others warm to William.

Of course rulership of the asc is shared with Neptune, but Jupiter's sign is more readily apparent in a chart than Neptune's.

[Chanii]

Hi There,

Blackempress invited me to this page...
I am quite new here, but surprisingly I found that many of you have Aquarius rising!

So, here is my chart:

[miquar]

Hi Chanii. All charts are interesting or course, but yours is very interesting indeed.

The three planets closely conjunct angles are all concerned with gaining understanding of one sort or another. Jupiter at the MC is strong in its own sign and conjunct the ascendant ruler, Uranus. And the Aquarius ascendant is part of the an air emphasis which includes the self-protective combination of Moon Saturn Pluto. So you would perhaps feel very vulnerable if the world deviates from your ideas of how the world should be. But then the Cancer Sun and Mars suggest that in order to feel valid and strong enough to be yourself, you need to focus on your emotional needs.

The Cancer Sun is also inherently self-protective, especially since it squares the stellium. Aquarius rising, with the culminating Jupiter Uranus conjunction in Sagitarrius, and also the angular Leo Mercury, suggest an eagerness and openness in your interactions with others. But there is also much in this chart that suggests a hidden world of turmoil which is often kept hidden.

But I may be making a meal of the stellium squaring the Sun and you may feel lighter about it. Either way I'd be interested to know how the chart has been playing out for you so far. I don't have Aquarius rising, but I do have Sun and Mercury there, and with Cancer rising too!

[kimbermoon]

Hi chanii: my input

your chart is concentrated mostly in the top part of the chart: do you have a sense of experiencing a sense of lack in certain areas of your life: or are you aware of any imbalance between your inner/outer selves?
The recent transiting of your 8th house by Saturn must have been quite a 'ride' of destabilization for you.
The Saturn return is about clearing out the clutter in your life, getting rid of things no longer suitable in your life, parental distancing, domestic changes, all in preparation for creating a new cycle in your life; it can also be about psychic clearing and identity re-definition. Have you felt any of these influences in your recent life? I see there are apt to be conflicts with authorities or higher ups, whereby you find your energies and motivations are being challenged; this could relate to employment difficulties. Pluto to the Sun represents important identity issues, and possible struggles with power and control. Moon with Mars also indicates relationship problems.
Are you familiarized with reading your own chart? Do you have specific questions at this point?

[Blackempress]

Chanii's chart is actually what seems like a bowl formation & that itself indicates a void in the personal expression/values as the 1/4th missing part is related from 12-3rd house.

The individual seems to be enthusiastic about communication from the Jupiter conj MC & Mercury Conj Desc.

[Chanii]

Hi and Miquar, Kimbermoon and Blackempress,

Thank you very much for your analysis

Now i try to give a feedback, how I perceive these energies.

In my childhood I was not able to handle emotions at all, I was a very cold and reserved child. I interpreted everything with my logic. e.g. Death was for me also logic...when I was about 6-8 years old I believed that death belongs to life as breathing, for me it was normal, I was never afraid from it and knew that only the body will be left here and the soul is eternal ... and people should celebrate and be happy instead of crying .When my great-grandmother died than I remember I saw my relatives crying and thought they cry for themselves, they feel sorry for they own lives and they can not let my great grandmother "go".

When I became 17-18, than suddenly my emotions started to get the control over my life. I faced with a big contrast between my mind and soul.
I think this is to be due to my aquarius rising that appreciates freedom and to my sun in cancer that wants to be bounded.
My moon is in libra, so I always tried be balance between these 2 and I can see myself with a 2nd person's eyes.

It is true that I have strong opinions, but I can very easily slip into someone else's mind and see his/her opinion, despite of this I catch myself very often when I think that only my opinion can be the only right one
Fortunately I already learnt to be tolerant and it doesn't disturb me if everyone opinion is against mine or when I have a very strange opinion compared to others.

Here another thing to my cancer sun : In my childhood I collected almost everything )) I went into my brothers room and took his staff , without any reason , just to place his stuff into my room , haha. Since I grew up, I don't collect anything, I do not really want to "own" ... sometimes I want to sell all my things and go to India to an ashram to do yoga and travel in the globe, to see new things and experience life ... but than I open my eyes and know that I want to have also a family with husband and children .... sooo , here is again the big difference between Aquarius and Cancer.

With the Mars in cancer I feel myself a little lazy to do things or to start a new activity.

With the position of my Mercury I am very open for others, I love to chat, discuss, and argue with others.

With Jupiter in my MC I love to teach others , I catch myself that when I speak, than I usually explain everything and make it more understandable.
Whit this Jupiter I fight for right and justice but more in a revolutionary way

Kimbermoon as if I noticed any imbalance of whether I have any lack in certain areas. Well, there are some fields in which I am interested and there are some in which I don't. For example, I was never keen of drinking alcohol, using drugs etc, I am not a "party -fan". I don't like useless, meaningless talks . I like the deeper things.

Regarding Saturn ooooo yeaaah, that was a ride !
Right now it is in my 8th house.
A couple of months after I was born my mum had to go into the hospital for a few months. When she came back I didn't recognize her, my grandmother and my dad took care of me.
In November 2011 it turned out that my mum has breast cancer, the most aggressive and dangerous form so, I faced such an inner paint to loose her and to see her suffering. (BTW: She is getting fine now ).
My health is seems to be also OK, I had no surgeries (yet )
My values went under a huge change in the last few years. Especially when Saturn transited my 7th house. All my relationships where a catastrophe Sometimes I struggled in such a depression that I thought living is not worth anymore! I had (owned) everything that everyone else would be proud of, but for me all these things and persons were worthless, I was searching for something .... maybe I had to find the right field in which I could put my energies!
But than, suddenly there came an idea that it needs the same mental effort to think on good things than on bad things... and I was already soooo down with my thoughts so that I decided to build myself again and to re-start my life.
I throw away so many things, persons, habits and so I became a very different person. The funny thing is that my outer-self changed with me as well, I had always blond hair, afterwards I experimented with different dark colors

Yes, it is true, I have troubles with power! I can't stand if someone tells me that I must do something. If someone is trying to control me than I run out of the situation, so, no chance

Yes, I can read more and more deeper my chart

[miquar]

Thanks Chanii, your feedback was really interesting and has added a lot to the thread.

I'm glad your Mum is doing well - Moon Saturn Pluto can reflect a Mother with real staying power!

Its great that you've come so far with the energies of this chart, and made such a success of your Saturn return. The next few decades will surely see great harvests from the seeds you've sewn at this time. And you even have one more passage of transiting Saturn across the Saturn Pluto conjunction to go!

And your awareness of the different sides of your nature - what you call the mind and soul - will help you a lot when you become a parent. It can be very frustrating for people who have conflicting needs for both family and independence when these needs aren't both properly understood.

Sometimes people with a chart like this can be very controlling as parents in one way or another, but with your awareness of power issues I'm sure you'll be the opposite. I imagine that you'll be the kind of parent who teaches the child that they have the strength to stand alone whenever the containment of family and society feels too confining, but that there is a place for them in the world and that its OK to ask for support, too.

[kimbermoon]

Good for you! Now you can work to turn your knowledge and experience into true WISDOM Best wishes

[Blackempress]

Thank you Chanii. I guess I can relate to some of the things you say from being a similar Cancer Sun, having the same planets in Libra & even an almost similar 10th MC.
In Sidereal I have an Aquarius Rising instead of Pisces.

Anyways, I think there's alot more for you to explore underneath all that you understand at the moment. 'Issues of Freedom' are products of Pluto in Libra/8th , Aquarius Rising plus a 10th Uranus. There's a strong need for independence.

The Water base-conflict with heavy air effect is a bit of a challenge to tackle. Personal experience, people call me detached/cold even if I feel I put my heart & soul into a relationship. I tell myself 'everyone can't be wrong'.

But it's good that you have a sound understanding of your chart. If it's possible do think over the empty houses & share your experience with those.

[Aira]

Dear all,
Im sorry if Ive been lost from this thread, past days. Ive been dealing with some siituations, first of all, my called "boyfriend" stole my smartphone. A few days later, I could recover it, but the situation gave me a very good lesson: some people can have bad intentions, even they are close to you, knowing you, sharing feelings ... I had been thinking about it, and projections sometimes we do: maybe this person really show himself as he is, but my heart and my intensity did not let me see the signs and the truth behind his sweet words. Though, but true. Maybe you think im naive (sure, I am, thats the first time it happens to me) and even it happened to me, I learnt the lesson and now on, I will try not to be so ... distracted, and also, I will not let this person/situation marks mi relationship with others (especially in love relationships with men), because, as Miquar mentioned in a previus post, then I will be letting others control my feelings.

Which brings me to you, Blackempress. I read your post, and Im moved with your history. And I was particullary interested in your comments about refusing sex, eating disorders and the intensity of your feelings, because I dealt or reflected my own emmotional troubles in this way.

You mentioned, my chart relates to psychoterapy & research & counselling (Neptune in Sag - 10th H). And also, asked how Neptune affected my chart and if Jupiter in 4th, made me interested in deal with family situations. Answering your questions, and also regards here is my story:

My first memories as a child, was at the age of 3. I remember my dad, my mom and my older brother (then my only brother), as part of a lovely and happy upper-middle class family. My elder brother was born when I was 5. I had a special relationship, link with my father. We felt and we were the same (he has his sun in Aquarius). My mother always mentions that I have the same thinking as him, both clever and intellectuals. I remmeber I enjoyed to do crosswords and play Scrabble with him at 5 years old. We were accomplice. I was a precocius child, I was writting and reading newspapers at 4 years old, and trying to learn more and more, getting bore with kids of my age, fascinating adults, and asking difficult questions to my mom and my dad. Which leads her to look for counselling with a psychologist. The psychologist made me tests and recommended to put me in a higher level in the school (With 5 years, she said I should be in 2nd level, when I was in kindergarden). My emmotions was ok according to her.

Well, my mother prefered just advance me one level, and I felt like fish in the water. But at the same time, things in home started to became differents, and bad. My dad, started to drink alcohol more and more, losing his job, abandon himself and his family, when he was the only one support. He and mom, started to fight and sometimes he beat my mother, or insulting her. Also, he became a paria in our neighborhood. At age of 7, sometimes my brother, mom and I, eat from charity of some neighboors. Some neighbors, turned a blind eye... but what struggled me and my brother more, was that my friends laugh and humiliate us, because we lost "status". My mother, which had never worked before, started to sewing clothes to our neighbors, and she support us. Eventually, the situation lead to a divorce, when I was 9. At that time, I started to think my dad donot loved me, us anymore because he did to us ugly things.

We moved to another neighborhood, but this was a dangerous neighborhood and my brothers and I kept close to the other kids, which accentuaded our lonliness, and clossing our emmotions and feelings. But at least, we were more quiet now, without all that fight. At school, I was preetty well, being always in the first class level. And my mom, started to work and supported us. We never had support from my dad, and also, my mother never wanted to claim him to assume his responsability (martyr). I saw my dad just a few times between 9-13 years old, and must of the time, I discussed with him and claimed why he was that way. Anger and dissapointment, lead me to broke the already harsh relationship I had with him, and didnt talk to him until I had 22.

As a teenager, like ... 10 or 11, I went to psychologist again, because my brother had some rebelion and emmotional struggles with my mom, as result of the divorce, etc. More tests and talks, but dr said I had no problems then .... But at that age, soemthing changed. I started to feel unappreciated and relegated from other kids, because I was the know-it-all in the class. And I wanted desesperately and intensely be part of a group. So, intentionally I started to worse in school and be more adaptable and
I became part of a group, but never developed strong roots of friendship or love with none of my called friends. Later as an adult, it becomes stronger.

At age of 22, I was confused about my career (I was studyin architecture but I was not supported by my family for the career I choose, mom wanted I became a doctor) and also about life. I started to feel nowhere and depressed. I had just two or three friends from university. So, I went to psychologyst/psychiatrist ( as I grew up seeing psychologyst as the guys who-solve-it-all, my mom always said they was a good help). Psychiatrist sent me anti-depressants and soon I started to feel better. With the psychoterapy I learnt that I was the only one who was in control of my life. I choose what to feel in regard what happened to me. My family is disfunctional, passive-agressive. Also that I should not have remorse or hard feelings for dad or mom and that our whole family should talk and seek forgiveness each other, because if I didnt solve it properly, it will affect my love relationships.

But at that time, I was too young or maybe not so mature to deal wiith that situation. Too many emotions and situations. With my dad, the relationship get better, but not enough, until now we are distants and do not have a good relationship. My mom, she always wanted to cntrol me, still she try. But as I learnt in psychoterapy, I started to be stronger towards her passive-agresive style.

[Aira]

At age of 25, I married to a good man, but as my emotions have not healed properly, it was a total dissaster .. the cause, I never got commited in the relationship, I was emotionally unavailable, even my ex was a lovely family man. As a result, some other things happened too, both sides. Trying to be accepted by my husband, I relegated my dream of become an plastic artist and started to be other person and had a marketing career. I refused to have sex with my husband (years), and I gain weight 80 pounds dealing emotions with food (I forgot to say, since teenage years until I married I was almost anorexic, didnt eat properly). Even I try to be good ... my ex husband asked me divorce after 8 years of try and try things works.

After the divorce, I started to think .. ¿what the hell happened? And I started a journey of self-discovery and forgiveness, because I realized ... something was not working. I had a divorce, I was not so good with my family and has no friends ... and didnt feel satisfied with my career or life. So, I decided, as Im the one who controls, Im the one who have to change whatever it is happening. No others ... me, only me.

So, after the grieve, I decided to be better in my body, my mind, my spirit. I started to take care of my health and lose weight, and restore my attractiveness. I already lose 50 pounds, and also took care of some pains I had (back, knee and joints pain). I exercise daily and eat better, but still chocolate is my passion . Also, started accept which is my passion in regards an Art career. I started (again) to go to psychoterapy, because my self-confidence was almost destroyed. So, everything I always wanted to do or be, Im doing right now. Im drawing and paiting again, I wanted to know about astrolgy, Im learning; Im wanted to be a photographer, Im learning and get in contact with others photographers, searching a job related to that ... etc... Im taking absolut responsability of me. Im doing things happens.

Also, I realized ... no matter what happened, I cannot do anything about it. Its the past. And its regards mom and dad decisions ... so I dont have anything to do about it. I only can do about me, right now .. .so I decided to learn and move on. I felt compassion for my dad, now I see things different, still I have not seen and talk to him, but I will do it soon. Also with mom. Towards my brothers, I want to talk with them and help them to heal .. I dont know how to do that but I will try. I started recommend to my older brother to seek a psychoterapist.

Regards myself, I started to accept my feelings, thoughts, everything. Accept me just the way I am. Recognize me. Loving my imperfections. Im emotionally unavailable, so now Im opening to others, but with less INTENSITY, becuase I used to frighten or scare people with my emotions. To have boundaries, but not so high, and honouring my true colours.

And also started to grow up spiritually, seeking the Truth and find Love inside me. Started to take care of my words, and follow the principle "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself". It helps me to restore my faith in myself.

I still have not finished, but Im on my way.

My change of mind in the last years, make me think if Saturn through my 8th H has something to do with it.

I think dad-mom harsh relationship is (Neptune sq Moon) also the emotional unavailbility. I think as result of my near contact with psychoterapist at so early ages, I was always intersted and curious about it (Neptune in Sag). Even all athe psychologist I contact told me Im so analytic and have skills to do it formerly, I think I could feel overwhelmed and surely could absorb emotions of others, which could affect me, so I didnt choose that career, and seek and artistic/estethic career, but remains my interest in know people insights, and my drawings, paintings and now photographys, try to show that.
In regards Jupiter in 4th H, its in good aspects with Sun, Pluto & Mercury (trines). I think is my interest my family heals, and my confident the sun always rise but Im not so sure... or just means, I will have a family.

You all have been helping me to find responses through your posts. Im not full in Astrology and reading your histories helps a lot. 8th H is a Karmic house, and also death or rebirths house. So, all the planets here ... means lessons to me through rebirths. Every planet a lesson, no? Changes are a constant in my life, resulting in rebirths. And most part of my life I was being someone who was not the real me, which equalls to be death. Now Im born again. Dont you think?

As Miquar mentioned, share our deepest feelings and be naked in front of others, helps to heal and bring support others, encouragin and empowering to deal with their own struggles.

Im sorry if my English is not so good (Im not fluent!) and thanks to hear/read me and so kindly help me to find answers. I will be here with my experiences, to help you in return.

[Aira]

It changed my mind completely. Im not sure if I will be married again, or if I will have kids, I just have one or two good friends, still Im changing my career (last week I was fired do to budget reductions in the art gallery). I just know that if I do my job, empowering myself, things will be better, and I live one day at a time.

My best wishes to all of you!

[Aira]

p.s. Part of my change of mind in regards my emmotions is accept and develope more my feminity. To be vulnerable, to be a woman, act like a woman. Im not meaning Im not, its just that I used to hide to others my vulnerability, romaticism, sensibility because I thought been romantic or be girly means to be weak or less, and I dont wanted to be hurt, but the truth is that was my fear speaking and I was handling things incorrectly. Now Im vulnerable and femenine as woman I am but, I have boundaries without any fear of being hurt, which make me stronger. This is the way to be truly open to others, opening my heart, showing who I am really "with my special things" And things with people and relationships, are going better and better.

[miquar]

You certainly do sound as though you have been reborn.

With much respect,

[Aira]

Thank you Miquar, its hard but not impossible. And reborns will continue,
Blackempress, MJ82, thanks all,

[Blackempress]

Originally Posted by Aira

Thank you Miquar, its hard but not impossible. And reborns will continue,
Blackempress, MJ82, thanks all,

Thank you for sharing your story. It really shows the troubles that you've faced & have finally learnt to be strong! This rebirth & courage will be your armor for yourself & those you can offer help to as well.
Blessings for your way!!

[Aira]

thanks Blackempress for your kind words, blessings for you too!

[soile]

Originally Posted by miquar

The 8th house is really coming to life in this

Hi!
I can totally relate your post above. I have sun, merc, venus, lilith, neptune in stellium in 8th house in Scorpio.
wise words You said, Thanks.
Here is my chart for you to see my stellium
SOILE
ps. my message was too short so I continue. My whole life I have been
sooooo Scorpio, it is not any role, it is me. I think/feel deep, not easy to trust anyone. Then when I trust someone I am loyal, I keep my promises.
I expect lot from others but from myself I expect the most. I hate
myself if I don´t succeed in everything. Have Cappy ASC, you see.
And my fiery Aries Moon makes me want everything RIGHT NOW.
Well to be this much black/white Scorpio is not always easy but
what the heckI love my personality.
Listen to Kelly Clarkson "Dark Side". I Love it. I relate to it.
SOILE



quote from...
thread. Something for me which I have to try not to forget is that 8th house issues are made for sharing, and things feel better and clearer when we don't just keep them to ourselves. This I guess is what underpins therapy and confession, and sharing generally, even if we keep things bottled up until we end up sharing through the medium of a childish row!

I'm mainly posting to throw in this quote from Saturn, by Liz Greene. I think its one of the best books that anyone can read about astrology - not only because of its treatment of Saturn, but because Greene talks about each house, sign and planet in isolation before bringing in Saturn. So its one of only three books that I know of where you can get Liz Greene in convenient 'cook book' form. The others are Neptune and Mythic Astrology. But anyway, from Saturn:

"As a watery house, the 8th deals primarily with emotional exchange. As opposite from the 2nd house, that which has physical value and meaning and which constitutes stability and self-sustenance becomes that which has emotional value and which consitutes stability of feeling. It is in the 8th sign, Scorpio, that we may find a clue to the significance of this house in matters of sex, emotional crises, and the death and rebirth of the instincts as purified desire."

I've put in bold the bit that really caught my attention. The idea that self-mastery must include mastery of our deepest survival instincts - if the alchemical process of perfecting creation is the be achieved, and if we are to find 'stability of feeling'. The 8th could be seen as a hellish place, or as a portal between the reality of a hungry or injured animal and the reality of a human being, with all the potential for peace of mind which comes with the latter. We see how wolf-like we are in the 8th, but if we look with the right eyes we see a whole lot more.

Of course I use the word 'mastery' to refer to a process which involves humility, acceptance and surrender with regard to the 'wolf', rather than simply conquering.

quote ends
SOILE

[kimbermoon]

this is such an insightful thread! I'm glad we are beginning to look for more in-depth meanings for interpreting the houses, rather than the old stand-bys which are too often based on the mundance world for many...I do think that the water houses need to be addressed more in terms of emotions and the processing of the psyche...my practice is to look at the 4th house as the source of the psyche [where emotions and their reactions are born]; the 8th then being where they must be processed; and the 12th where they are meant to be healed and resolved. I find that lately I am having to reinforce the meaning of what emotions are really about, and how they are vital to our psychic evolution, to many people...too many see them as an annoyance or irritation, and fail to address them but in truth they are a big part of who we are and what we are here to experience in life...as said elsewhere:
'emotions are the river upon which we are carried from our past and into the future that we are creating...memories are meant to remind us of our past mistakes and blockages...thanks to all who are trying to keep this message across...you are indeed the brave ones.

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by kimbermoon

this is such an insightful thread! ...my practice is to look at the 4th house as the source of the psyche [where emotions and their reactions are born]; the 8th then being where they must be processed; and the 12th where they are meant to be healed and resolved. I find that lately I am having to reinforce the meaning of what emotions are really about, and how they are vital to our psychic evolution, to many people...too many see them as an annoyance or irritation, and fail to address them but in truth they are a big part of who we are and what we are here to experience in life...as said elsewhere:
'emotions are the river upon which we are carried from our past and into the future that we are creating...memories are meant to remind us of our past mistakes and blockages...thanks to all who are trying to keep this message across...you are indeed the brave ones.

I agree so wholeheartedly with your comments about the purpose, the value, the gift, of expression of our feelings!

And if I could paraphrase, "4th house as the source of the psyche [where emotions and their reactions are born]; the 8th then being where they must be processed; and the 12th where they are released.

[tautomer]

Hmm some how I missed this one.

I read through a good chunk of this and this was very interesting to read. I was able to relate to a number of things here. I have an 8th house stellium as well (sun, mercury, venus, jupiter). It's very late here so I am posting partly to remind myself in the morning (afternoon) to say something!