Sun sign or ascendant

[Justwondering]

Hello,

I've had my chart read a number of times and have sagitarius rising. sometimes I feel as though my chart is based on my sun sign being in the first house rather than sagitarius.

My sun is in taurus and in the fifth house. I have mercury in aries in the fourth. However I often feel as though my mercury was in my twelfth house instead - with all th problems that brings! I actually have neptune in the twelfth natal house.

I wonder why this seems to be so. Is there anyone who can enlighten me?

I know how important the sun sign is, but it seems to make the ascendant irrelevant.

Thank you

[IleneK]

Hi, justwondering.

You wrote:

I have mercury in aries in the fourth. However I often feel as though my mercury was in my twelfth house instead - with all th problems that brings!

I wonder if you might talk a bit about the problems you are experiencing. And does Neptune in the 12th aspect Mercury?

[Silversong]

Hey, Justwondering!

I'm a Taurus sun too, and I was also supposed to have Sagittarius rising but I didn't really feel like it fit (even though I was hoping it would ) either. So I'd like to ask: how sure are you of your birth time? Since (even with my certificate time) the chart didn't fit me, I'm getting a rectification. If you're curious at all about that, there are a number of people on this forum who are way more knowledgeable about how rectifications work.

I'm pretty new to astrology so please take my interpretation of the way the Ascendent works with some reserve.

One way to look at the difference between the Sun and the Ascendant can come down to how people perceive you. If you get the impression that strangers or people you're merely acquainted with regard you as different from the way that you feel deep inside, then you might have different Ascendant and Sun signs. However, it's totally possible for the signs to be the same, in which case you might feel very comfortable with in-depth (not cliche) descriptions of Taurus. And you might also have really good self-understanding since the "inside" and "outside" match, so to speak.

If you've been researching the descriptions of planet expressions in houses other than the ones your current chart shows, I would encourage you to keep open to the possibility that certain aspects in your chart might also (or better) account for your impressions of the validity of a planet's placement. As such, maybe you could consider starting off by looking more at the ascendent sign descriptions themselves to see what sounds more like the way you present yourself to others or how people tend to read you when they don't know you very well.

I hope this helps a bit.

[Justwondering]

Hi Ilene and Silversong,

Sorry to delay replying. Thank you for your opinions.
I'm quite sure about my birth time as my mother deliberately noted it (and that of my brother and sister.)

I don't think that mercury aspects my neptune at all, neptune trines my moon and saturn in pisces (supposed to be in the third house.) Sometimes I feel like a sagitarrius rising but I'm sure that it's complicated by the fact that my south node is in sagittarius. I seem to experience a lot of what I think of as eighth house "crisis" as though my south node was in the eighth house instead of the first. (It's not just at the moment - this has gone on for a long time.)
I wondered whether I was experiencing some sort of eighth house issue as I have a moon in the third house (in pisces) and seem to get sucked into other people's emotions a bit too easily. I could also perhaps have a bit of leo in the eighth house that might make life tough.

I know I'm probably having a difficult time right now with both saturn and the north node in scorpio!

[waybread]

Can you post your chart? It will make it easier to see what is going on.

[Justwondering]

Hello Waybread,

I'll try attaching my chart. might help with other issues I have too.

[waybread]

One technique that might help is looking at house cusp rulers; i.e., the planet ruling the sign on a house cusp. This gets a little more advanced than simple "planets in signs" or "planets in houses." The house cusp ruler of a planet in a house, by its own house and aspects, will tell you a lot about the planet in question.

This gets a little dodgy, because different house systems will give you different cusp degrees, and sometimes even move the cusp into a different sign. But let's go with what you've got.

It would appear that the cusp of the house in which your Aries Mercury appears, is actually in a late degree of Pisces. So we would look to Neptune as the modern ruler; and perhaps to Jupiter as the traditional ruler of Pisces. Neptune is in the 12th. Jupiter in Gemini appears to make no major aspects. This gives it some "socialization" issues-- it's like a loner who has neither close friends nor enemies, but goes his own way.

With Aries on the cusp of your 5th house, where your Taurus sun resides, we look to Mars in the 9th house. Here we see a big tussle between freedom-loving Mars-Uranus and tradition-loving Saturn. You may swing back and forth between these two modes.

If we focus on your sun placement, however, the 5th symbolizes children but also our leisure activities. What do you do for re-creation? Love affairs ended up here, which is a common modern reading, but in the sense of a light flirtation, rather than a serious relationship, which belongs to the 7th house. You may feel most like yourself when involved in a recreational activity or hobby.

The ascendant shows how you come across to others: your outward personality and body. The sun may not be so readily apparent to others. It shows who must you be to feel like an authentic person.

In Taurus, a fixed earth sign, your orientation to life is primarily practical and material.

With moon trine Neptune, you probably have a rich imagination, and are probably a very good dancer! (Pisces and the 12th house rule the feet.) Venus is very strong in your chart, in its own sign of Taurus. Hopefully you have an artistic outlet.

[Justwondering]

Thank you for your analysis Waybread, I think I have a problem with the unaspected jupiter - I feel like a loner without a "place" and when it comes to any fortune/luck - there's very little really in comparison with what I see from others. I also really feel - especially at the moment - a big conflict between the freedom-loving mars-uranus and the saturn (opposition), it's quite a problem and leads to stale-mate - and depression too. I certainly swing back and forth daily. As for my sun, I don't have children and haven't really had any good experiences with children at all. I used to do plenty of recreational activities - art, dance, etc, now I do a little illustration and occasional painting and that's it, but I do like my free, unstructured time and love nature and countryside. I'm not a good dancer - how I'd love to be!- but I do love dance and moving. However, it seems as though anything good in my chart has been sucked away, - there are trines but they never seem to manifest! I guess it's the isolated jupiter in both gemini (bad sign) and the 6th house (a bad placement - I've never had a fulfilling well paid or enjoyable job) - and the tough placement of saturn in pisces which has prevented me from participating in life like everyone else. It seems very restricting. I guess the sun sign taurus is strong in my chart, as you say, which accounts for my feeling that it overrides the ascendant and along with the oppositions creates the crises and stuckness that I experience. Thank you again.

[waybread]

It is important to see happiness as a choice, not as something exterior to yourself that hits you if you are one of the lucky ones. Possibly sun-Venus in Taurus doesn't like moving outside its comfort zone?

Try giving Uranus-Mars more expression, utilizing Saturn's careful planning and caution. Sort of like Mars-Uranus want to try sky-diving. Saturn says, OK but really pay attention to those safety checks.

Try dancing to your favourite music when you are home alone, with nobody watching. You might find it therapeutic.

[Justwondering]

Thank you for your thoughts Waybread, quite insightful. In the past I've been sky-diving (parachuting) once and I've been travelling a bit. I also enjoy dancing in my living room, It's good to remember to do it! I seem to be much more weary/cautious these days and do very little, it's all a bit safe - as you say the sun-venus in taurus prefering the comfort zone but also the saturn and moon in pisces making me quite fearful. in recent years I think I've experienced quite a struggle with uranus in aries (probably in my fourth house) and now neptune in pisces in the opposing sign to my mars-uranus; something doesn't work for me when I travel or try and take any interesting action, it seems as though I'm up against barriers. At the moment I may have motivation but no energy and I'm quite introverted. I've also struggled with saturn first in libra and now in scorpio (still in my eleventh house); I lack friends with similar interests - I guess it's also due to the unaspected jupiter again. I think you're right about happiness being a choice. I try and tell myself things could be so much worse and appreciate what I have. I can choose to be happy simply meditating alone but I suppose I think I should be getting more out of life and would like to. The saturn in pisces gives very little "support" , something I feel I lack a lot of in myself and which leads me to isolating myself. I think I have a lot of fears to overcome. I think - as you say - I need to try and give the mars-uranus expression while heeding saturn, which is quite difficult!

[waybread]

Wanting to make some choices in life is super. With your horoscope, you can think about what each planet really needs, by its own nature, sign, and house. Then look for ways that they can negotiate and broker something with the other planets.

Fear is a big issue for Mars opposite Saturn. Mars wants to go rock-climbing, but Saturnian fear kicks in once you're out there on the cliff.

I think the key is to see Saturn as patient, careful, and rule-abiding. So instead of expressing fear, Saturn can say, "OK, let's go rock-climbing. But we want to make double-sure you've handled all of the safety precautions."

I think Pluto adds to the stress, but its purpose is self transformation.

Come to think of it, that Pisces moon might enjoy swimming regularly, or swimming lessons if you are not a swimmer now.

Come to think of it, Saturn rules rocks and mountains generally. Uranus can mean sudden upsets, but it can also mean liberation from monotany, and the serendipity of the unexpected.

Start taking "baby steps" if fear of a big undertaking sends you back home. Do something smaller, yet with an element of Mars/Uranus risk-taking, for an hour a day, and see how you get on. This might be something as simple as walking in an unfamiliar (but safe) neighbourhood, or signing up for an exercise class nearby.

[Justwondering]

I agree that there needs to be some negotiating between the planets. Often it leads to stalemate with me though. For some things I haven't found solutions.

To be literal - I have been rock climbing a few times but not recently mainly due to lack of opportunity. I suffer more from doing things with people than having other fears like safety on the rockface. The fear is often other people/social situations these days.

Swimming is good but I haven't been swimming for a long time. I like the idea of "wild swimming" in lakes and rivers and the sea; not keen on swimming pools. So it's finding the opportunity.

I agree that "baby steps" is the way to go, but sometime I'll need to take more drastic action to get myself out of my stuck situation.

Thank you for all your insights and suggestions I made sure I did some dance to music last night - it felt good! And there may be some sort of dance/exercise class I can try. Something to look into.

[waybread]

Good for you for dancing!

The thing about "baby steps." Oftentime the really big changes are so daunting that we feel defeated before we even start. However, often we can see our way clear to doing some small things that seem less confronting. Than we build on those.

You know the sayings, "Rome wasn't built in a day," or "The journey of 1000 miles begins with one step."

If "wild swimming" appeals to you, why not start doing laps in a local rec centre pool? Sure, it's tedious, but that way you can build up your endurance for an outdoor opportunity.

I think the universe notices when we take a stand for ourselves, either constructive or fearful.

Another quote: "What would you do if you weren't afraid?"

[Justwondering]

Lots to think about. I'm going on a long solitary retreat soon so I'll have plenty of time to think
Thank you for your suggestions.