Murder Case?

[Anavlis]

A friend of my mine has asked me whether I could help him with the following situation. A woman died almost 6 months ago. He suspects that the woman was killed rather than committed suicide.

How did she die?

http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/astro...&Submit=Submit

I hope I did it right, since it is my first time putting an horary question.

But I have the woman's birth data and the time of her death, too, should it be required.
Thanks.

[dr. farr]

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

I'll take the 7th house as significator for this deceased woman (using the 7th house as quesited significator, based on the oldtime 7th house signification generically for "the other")
-7th house = Cancer = Moon
-Moon posited in the 8th house of the chart (to me this verifies the choice of the 7th house as quesited significator)
-Lot of Murder and Violence (mercury+saturn-mars) falls @ 24 Leo IN THE CHART"S 8TH whole sign HOUSE!
-Moon flows toward conjunction with the Lot of Murder and Violence (and IS sign conjunct with the Lot, there in the 8th house)
In my opinion, based on these factors, I would say that yes it is quite possible that the woman in question, was killed (rather than having committed suicide)

[Anavlis]

Thank you, dr. farr.
I suppose you should get roughly the same response if you checked the time my friend e-mailed me (with an intent to really do sth about it) and the late person's perspective?

The matter is rather delicate as a former PC might have been involved. His pistol was used.

The late person's would-be perspective. The event is supossed to have taken place at this time:
http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/astrobot.cgi?INPUT1=&INPUT2=&MONTH=01&DAY=31&YEAR= 2012&HOUR=11&MINUTE=30&AMPM=AM&TOWN=Trbovlje&COUNT RY=SLOVEN&STATE=&INPUT9=&Submit=Submit
The time of her death, however, is just a rough estimate.
Here is another perspective. The time when my friend wrote to me about her in order to do sth about it: http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/astro...&Submit=Submit

[Anavlis]

It has been further suggested by means of pendulum divination that the woman was killed by her partner, that her suicide note had been dictated to her, that she had been blackmailing her partner as she was privy to some theft.


I have been given a transcript (of parts?) of her suicide note, unfortunately there is no access to the original. As a person working with texts on a daily basis, I could sense a perspective other than that of a suicidal woman. There were some references that could very well suggest a double perspective within her own emotionally split personality, but there were also some (over-generalized) references to her two children that I, as a mother (and perhaps a rather meticulous linguist), would never use in my farewell letter. The reference concerns some specific grammatical feature in my native language.


I accept that the letter was dictated to her. However, I want to make sure that it was dictated to her by another discrete person, rather than another voice within her.

My question is: Was the letter dictated to the woman by another discrete human being?


I am sorry about the Terminator-like sounding phrase, I just wanted to make sure that it was not another person or voice within her own personality.


http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/astro...&Submit=Submit


PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT SURE WHETHER THE TIME IS RIGHT. I CHECKED THE CHART WITH TWO PROVIDERS, ONE OF THEM SEEMED NOT TO RECOGNIZE THE TIME ZONE (Summer time adjustment?)



These are the data: July 5, 2012. 19:56 (as read on my alarm clock) at: 45°47′N, 14°21′E

[Belle Lune]

Hi Anvalis,

I find a persons Solar Return and transits very informative. Is it possible to provide them, and the actual date that the murder/suicide took place?

[Belle Lune]

Oh, ok I see you have given the date, if you can just give me her birth dtails to do her chart, I can do the rest.

[Belle Lune]

Originally Posted by Anavlis

A friend of my mine has asked me whether I could help him with the following situation. A woman died almost 6 months ago. He suspects that the woman was killed rather than committed suicide.

How did she die?

http://alabe.com/cgi-bin/chart/astro...&Submit=Submit

I hope I did it right, since it is my first time putting an horary question.

But I have the woman's birth data and the time of her death, too, should it be required.
Thanks.

Personally, I find it very difficult to read a horary chart without the aspect grid, as I need to see if the aspects are appying or seperating. Is it possible to tell me what the exact question was, what time you asked it and where, so I can draw up my own to replicate it?

[Anavlis]

The woman was born March 2, 1967, at 00:30 a.m., at 46°09′N15°03′E .


She died January 31, 2012, around 11:30 a.m. in supposedly the same place as above.


The first person I asked a question regarding the event was an astrologer outside the Astrologers' Community, but I have not received their reply (yet).




The question was:


Was the woman killed by the ex-cop?

or, if easier,

Did the woman commit suicide?


The time of the question:


19 June 2012 21:09 at 45°47′N, 14°21′E

[Belle Lune]

By looking at her Solar Return I can see the following:

Her North Node is in the 5th house, indicating that for the year, her focus would be on most likely her children, or 5th house activities. Creativity, fun, sexual liaisons or even gambling. As you say that there were references to her children, this does make sense, as clearly her children were her focus for the year. She has Pluto conjunct her North Node. I’m not sure exactly what Pluto could mean in this case, or what it had to do with her children. We know that Pluto is generally seen as a malefic planet. Although it happens to be in opposition to both Jupiter and Uranus, which are the planets sitting in her 8th house, the planets representing her death. We can thus assume it had something to do with her death.
On the other hand it is trine Chiron, septile Neptune, trine Mars, Sun and semi sextile the Moon – the Moon representing her main emotional focus for the year.
As we can see, most of the above planets are sitting in her 7th house, the house of Marriage/or open enemies. You will see that Neptune and Uranus are in Mutual Reception.

Her emotional focus for the year is in the 6th house, the house representing either mundane affairs, or health. It is ruled by Saturn, which is exalted in Libra in the 3rd house. It is also conjunct Venus, which is in mutual reception with Saturn.
Venus is also trine Juno. It seems as though your friend was emotionally invested in some knowledge coming from an authority (Saturn exalted in Libra), which betrayed her.

Then we find Hygeia in Scorpio in the 4th house. This is of course ruled by Pluto. This is the planet of health. Was her children sick, hence Pluto conjunct her North Node.

So what is going on in her 7th House: She has Chiron conjunct Neptune. Chiron does often represent physical illness, or at the very least mental/emotional illness, especially conjunct Neptune. I would think that her partner must have been suffering from some form of emotional pain in their relationship. The blackmail perhaps?
There is Mars conjunct the Sun in Pisces. The Sun which is the ruler of her ascendant, most probably represents her.
This aspect can suggest the fight by the person to prove their very existence, i.e. that they have every right to live, or that they feel bullied and challenged by the Marsian person, or being in Pisces, their may once again have been emotional abuse. This may have come from the Mercury person. Sun/Mars/Mercury conjunction.

Personally, I would say whoever the Saturn person is, caused quite an upset in the life of the partner and the partnership. You will notice, all the 5th house planets are in Capricorn ruled by Saturn. Personally, I don’t get a good feeling about this specific person. And yes, the letter could definitely heave been dictated by a discrete person, Saturn exalted in Libra, sitting in the third house, the house of communication, writing etc. You will also notice that Saturn is sesqui-square Chiron, and inconjunct Mercury in the 7th!

On the theft, Juno is in the 2nd house, ruled by Venus, associated with monetary affairs, and it’s generally associated with Betrayal.
It is also interesting to note that her Part of Fortune is Trine Mercury, and sextile Juno.

Transits for that day:

6:11 Moon (6) trine Sun (3)
6:25 Sun (1) semi-sextile Sun (3)
7:52 Juno (1) trine Juno (8)
5:31 Hygeia(2) Square Pallas Athena (5)


These were the only significant transits that occurred in the morning, the rest occurred in the afternoon, so I would assume that either her death occurred around this time, or at least the contemplation or the beginning of the actions occurred around this time. As you will note, most of the transits occur either in the 1st house, the house of self, or the 6th – the house of sickness.
Her Natal houses being the 3rd house – the mind, and the 8th – of course the house of death.
With these specific planets involved, and no planets such as Mars, Pluto or Uranus, personally I would suspect suicide.
It would seem as though, early around 5:30, she began to take action on her intended suicide.
Just my thoughts. Although, I do believe the Saturnian person, helped the entire situation a long. It is possible, she felt cornered by whatever it was, and this person even persuaded her it was the best idea. This in fact is a Sun conjunct Mars aspect. The feeling as though you do not have the right to even exist.

[Belle Lune]

Here is a link to her 2011 Solar Return:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/questionb.jpg/

[dr. farr]

In whole sign, the 8th house (in whole sign under Pisces) is loaded in the reference SR posted above: Lilith, Uranus, Mercury, Sun, Mars, all sign-conjunct in Pisces (in the 8th by whole sign format) Lilith conjunct Uranus in the 8th house-a very disruptive indication, the Uranian factor indicating sudden and enexpected events/actions; and then there is mystery-generating Neptune in partile opposition to the ascending degree, Neptune sending this opposition ray to the ascending degree, from the 7th whole sign house, which can indicate enemies (7th house can be a signifying house representing enemies) Using profection, beginning the count on the day of the SR, giving 1 sign beginning with the ascending sign, per month, her death in Jaunary of the SR year profects into Cancer, positing the chaotic and disruptive Dragon's Tail (South Node): certainly this SR sends up numerous red-flags about a very possible critical year for this person, which, of course, going unheeded, we find her sudden death (Uranus conjunct Lilith in the 8th house) under mysterious circumstances (Neptune in 7th house opposition ascending degree) in the 11th month (South Node in Cancer) of her SR year...

[alliewar]

Did the murder involve drugs?

[dr. farr]

Actually to my understanding it is officially a "suicide", although there are suspicions of possible homicide involved.

[Anavlis]

Dear All,

Thank you all for your valuable readings. It certainly seems to be an intricate case. My initial gut reaction, however, suggested a suicide. And this is, of course, the official version.

With all the different interpretations hinting a rather active involvement of another person, it seems there might have been a gruesome combination of homi- and suicide. As Belle Lune suggests the woman might have been cornered. To the extent that she gave up her own free will. And from that point of view, it may appear to have been a homicide, too. The ruthless partner telling the wretched heavily indebted woman to put an end to it all, since there is no way out for her. That if she truly loves him and her children, she will do it. That there is no way she can pay him off - he has taken a loan to pay off her ex-husband's gambling debts. But there is another mysterious thing. It seems that the woman had got wind of some criminal act on the part of that man and that she had been blackmailing him, threatening him to go to the Police ... Is there something suggesting drugs? A plausible scenario. Certainly something involving some monetary affairs.

I hear the man will have to take a lie detector test. Well, he has got an alibi - and with such a scenario, it is certainly possible to cash it in. In the morning the man opens up the safe, takes the weapon out and tells the woman to do her bit while he is away.

Could you look up another question for me, please.

Who opened the safe?

July 6, 2012. 07:53 am at: 45°47′ N, 14°21′E

Thank you all.