Science behind Astrology?

[annran]

Originally Posted by vlsmercury7

There are many theories about how astrology actually works, but most of it is something of a mystery. Every living thing is surrounded by an electromagnetic field (this has been proven with the use of Kirlian photography) or aura. Most people cannot feel or see this source of energy, but it does exist. There are some people who are sensitive enough to feel or see the aura as coloured bands of light that surround living things, not just people, but plants, trees animals etc. The Earth also has an electromagnetic field which keeps it in orbit, together with the gravitational pull of the Sun and other planets, particularly Jupiter. So, if this force field influences the Earth's journey around the Sun, why not take this further and say that "As above, so below" and that events happen on Earth due to mathematical calculations and planetary links?

It is not known exactly how this magnetism influences events on Earth, but it does. Each planet has a different wavelength or character, and that shapes events on the lives of living things. Many people who do not know astrology will say it's a form of fortune telling, or that we are all born under one of twelve signs and that is it - 7 billion of us divided into twelfths? Well, that is not it.

Astrology is a highly complex blend of astronomy, mathematics and art. Every person has a unique combination of planets in different signs in twelve areas or spheres of life. These combinations are based on the person's date, place and time of birth. They can be calculated and drawn on a birth chart or horoscope. This will be unique to the person, even if they are an identical twin. It's all about patterns really and being able to interpret those patterns.

We still use Pluto because Pluto is still considered important to the astrological discipline. Just because it no longer has planetary status, it doesn't mean it is any less significant. Have you ever seen the vibrations of a musical note? Maybe not, but have you heard a musical note? Of course you have. So if musical notes have vibrations, why can't electromagnetic fields around the planets? Just because you can't see or hear something beyond the normal five senses, it doesn't mean it's not real.

vlsmercury, I got your magnetic field interactions theory. Even our own brains generate magnetic field around themselves. And in an interesting demonstration, Scientists showed that they can make people tell truth or lies just by placing a magnet on the left or right side of the head. But, besides the fact that magnetic field exerted by a planet on Earth will be very negligible due to vast distances between the planets, a planet will exert the same magnetic field around the Earth and should effect all the persons in the same way. All the people are expected to have a similar behaviour at any point of time. And it these cases, birth time and dates are immaterial.

I raised the question of Pluto because - it was a relatively newly discovered planet and it was included in the astrological calculations. But now, many dwarf plants have been discovered. Dwarf planet Eris is slightly larger than Pluto and should have similar magnitude of impact as of Pluto on astrological calculations. But if we fail to take into account of Eris in calculations, the accuracy of the predictions will suffer.

I will go with JUPITERASC's post that 7 celestial bodies, viz - Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn exert more influence on the Earth than any others (though I think Neptune and Uranus must be included as they are also massive bodies - much more than Mercury) and thus doesn't influence the accuracy of calculations much. But then again, it makes me question the arbitrariness of the assumptions of the calculations. Like, recalling from my vague memory, I read somewhere that Pluto makes you more imaginative. Who found out these co-relations?

[annran]

Originally Posted by vlsmercury7

Having a healthy skepticism is fine in my opinion. It is better to try to understand by asking questions, than to believe in something without conducting your own research to see whether it fits in your beliefs and understanding.

I am trying to be a healthy skeptics and have perception of Astrology on rational analysis.

[annran]

Originally Posted by waybread

annran, I think you misunderstood my post. I considered the possibility that you were an unbeliever, and said that the "Mind of God" thesis can be taken metaphorically, if so. So don't think of "God" in the religious terms you rejected in your past, but as the matrix in which space, time, and the material universe exist as inter-dependent components, not discrete entities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_of_God

www.firstthings.com/article/2008/09/003-physics-and-the-mind-of-god-the-templeton-prize-address-24


You still seem focused on a simple linear cause-and-effect model of dependent and independent variables. But science has more sophisticated alternatives: modeling with complex feedback loops, the role of random chance, holistic systems, or stochastic processes, for example.

At one level of analysis, your head and your foot are two very different things. At another level of analysis both are integrated parts of a complex whole, namely, your body.

Sorry I couldn't explain you what I really wanted to say. I couldn't recall the word 'metaphysical'.
Seems like I am following a simple linear cause-and-effect model. But you have to lead me to a different level of analysis. I haven't read the article in your link (first things), but will get back to you after I read it.

[annran]

Originally Posted by tautomer

Everyone, here's a PSA; this is on us, and until we fulfill it, astrology is just a myth:

Burden of Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayBys8gaJY

FYI: We actually can't fulfill it. I'll be amazed if it can be.




Indeed the mind does play tricks on us. I do pride myself on being highly self-aware and having a very deep-seeking mind. I'm not perfect, but most of the time I do feel I can sort out if I am being duped or not.

If we get look at astrology on the surface, yes it is a placebo-like effect. It's very likely that astrology works like your stone analogy. My experience with astrology though, is too nuanced for me to completely dismiss it as a mind trick of various sorts. It partly is, but I am hesitant to reason that it's purely that. Of course, I can't prove it. It's because of that I don't actually say astrology is a fact that is full-proof, it's not. Despite that, I have faith with it, and I see a great deal of use for it.

I gather that you're looking for proof of astrology factual exsistence. That is never going to be found or supplied. I promise that to you. Astrology, like religions, requires a level of faith that can not be proven to anyone. Just be weary of asking people to prove their beliefs. NO ONE likes them to be challenged, and some retaliate rather strongly because it's so personal due to the emotional connection to it.

And to everyone who believes in astrology. I know it hurts to have your beliefs challenged. Simply saying "well, you just don't understand until you study it!" does no good what so ever. I always go for the old saying "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all."

That was an interesting video!
I agree that people don't know how those celestial bodies affect us. But then, at least there should be a plausible explanation how the co-relation of the effect of planets on humans have been established.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by annran

Yes, I totally forgot about reincarnation. But again, don't you think it's unfair if someone commits a crime in this life and gets punished in another life? When you are punished for some sin in the same life, you know why you are punished and what you need to improve. But if you are punished for your sins in another life, you may not realize what wrong you have done. And so, it effectively doesn't do any good to give punishment in next lives. Also, this will encourage a neutral eye to commit sins if he is sees others not getting any punishment. While to another neutral eye in the next life, it will seem like God is unfair and the guy punished for previous-lives-sins is leading a pathetic life for no reasons at all!

Karma is distinct from 'crime' and 'punishment'. Karma just means action and is impersonal. The idea of karma is that it is fair that actions have consequences. Those consequences may take time to manifest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDy2xWpZWVc Therefore it is fair that when the conditions are right the consequences manifest. The conditions for the consequences may manifest at any time from within a few seconds to many lifetimes – hence the idea of “instant karma”.

Some individuals may regard this as unfair and they are entitled to their opinion. Other individuals may regard this as fair and they are equally entitled to their opinion. The fact remains that if we do not wish to experience certain consequences of actions in other lives then we simply do not perform actions in current lives that are likely to lead to consequences we would prefer not to experience in future lives

Powerion's link is one that is likely to interest you annran it's just one of many opinions on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AC5hLlh5XpY

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Originally Posted by annran

Well Kaiousei, can we call this a failure of Astrology in such cases. Shouldn't Astrology work like accountancy here - when accounts of a retail marketing company says company has made losses, it means most of its stores have made losses. Likewise, when a country's horoscope says it is going to face some big disaster, most of the citizens should have death written on their horoscope!

Not at all, because, unlike my own horoscope, I can free myself from a nation's horoscope by simply moving to a different nation.

I think it's easier to just assume that astrology and accounting have about as much in common as accounting and swimming.

But, to be fair to the spirit of your analogy, there are situations where companies will suffer or close that aren't due to low sales from the individual stores. Consider cases of embezzelment, tax fraud, tax evasion, etc. These can all cause stores or entire companies to fold depending on the severity of the actions involved, but they all stem from the corporate entity of which all the stores are but smaller arms of.

While I find skepticism to be an important trait, it is easy to take it too far. I'm reminded of the fact that there are many things that are relatively common knowledge nowadays that we didn't understand several decades ago, but time marched on and we did. For things in which there is no explaination, it's easier to just assume there will be one in time. Perhaps astrology works on some sort of level or by some sort of agent that we don't know about yet? Think of dark matter or dark energy. Contested concepts that were all but unheard of until like 30 years ago, I think.

[SniperBomber328]

Originally Posted by waybread

Actually this electromagnetism is not a valid explanation. It doesn't explain horary astrology at all, which goes by the moment of the question, not a person's nativity. It doesn't explain why the tropical zodiac (which is not hinged to the constellations for which signs were named) should work (assuming it does), nor why a woman having an afflicted Venus in Scorpio is supposed to be the jealous type. Some of the planets are just tiny; not to mention asteroids; and the nearest fixed stars (which some astrologers still use) are so many light years away that their electro-magnetic influence would be negligible.

Then let's assume the spiritual path; divine construction. In which God is the Ultimate Architect (which he is FYI). Besides that point, the OP wanted to know the science behind Astrology and I gave him what might be the most "valid" theory accepted today (though not necessarily true).

It's real funny though how almost all scientists/astronomers/any other science prodigy state that Astrology is a Pseudo Science, without considering that all those "latter" fields all stemmed (descended, though not in a consistent manner) from Astrology .

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by SniperBomber328

...Besides that point, the OP wanted to know the science behind Astrology and I gave him what might be the most "valid" theory accepted today (though not necessarily true).

It's real funny though how almost all scientists/astronomers/any other science prodigy state that Astrology is a Pseudo Science, without considering that all those "latter" fields all stemmed (descended, though not in a consistent manner) from Astrology

“KEPLERS BELIEF IN ASTROLOGY” by NICHOLAS KOLLERSTROM SKYSCRIPT ARTICLE http://www.skyscript.co.uk/kepler2.html

QUOTE:

"'The soul of the newly born baby is marked for life by the pattern of the stars at the moment it comes into the world, unconsciously remembers it, and remains sensitive to the return of configurations of a similar kind.' Kepler, Harmonics Mundi, chapter 7"

[waybread]

Sniper Bomber, I think the so-called Mind of God" theory has merit. It doesn't postulate the god or gods of any particular religion. Rather, if we look at how matter or life came into being, God is a name for the forces or principles behind those events.

Fortunately historians of astronomy do look at astrology in dispassionate ways. See, for example, the work of Francesca Rochberg, Otto Neugebauer, and David Pingree. This is different from a scientist whose expertise may lie in a totally different field, but who is put off by the schlock-pop astrology of popular culture.

[SniperBomber328]

Originally Posted by waybread

Sniper Bomber, I think the so-called Mind of God" theory has merit. It doesn't postulate the god or gods of any particular religion. Rather, if we look at how matter or life came into being, God is a name for the forces or principles behind those events.

Fortunately historians of astronomy do look at astrology in dispassionate ways. See, for example, the work of Francesca Rochberg, Otto Neugebauer, and David Pingree. This is different from a scientist whose expertise may lie in a totally different field, but who is put off by the schlock-pop astrology of popular culture.

Well in my case I was referring to the Hebrew God, but that is another topic much for, perhaps, another time.

[davidk]

It's not that the planets affect us but that they show the same universal force in action. Just like saying how does a clock affect me. It doesn't but it shows some information that is also likely to be shown in your actions. For example if it shows 3am you are likely to be asleep. Similarly if the planets show a certain combination so your personality is likely to be a certain way.

History of Astrology - http://www.myastrologycharts.com/Ast...-Astrology.php

How Astrology Works - http://www.myastrologycharts.com/Ast...logy-Works.php

[gen6k]

no one knows the mechanisms of action, but if you want to naturalize it the ancients discovered a cyclical time signification for events by seeing that something was at a certain place so they wrote something down. if no one knows the mechanisms of action, but the significations work then it must have something to do with the nature of existence. but we cant say that any allegations of "planets having energy" is a correct premise to formulate an inquiry of astrology from. and that hypothesis is probably in fact mythological.

also since know one knows the actual "physical framing" it is impossible to be completely accurate from not enough significations or clear definititions of significations. other than that it works to some extent based on talent, calculation, intuition. so if the entire reason was ever found we can track the entire spiral of human evolution. i think the foundations are a lost art and require some sort of esoteric/psychic knowledge to understand combined with intuitive physical understanding. on the otherhand most people can understand astrology if they try and utilize it. but it does take some time, more of a symbolic logic, think like an egyptian reading hieroglyphs.

modern science understanding of nature is incomplete if it cant see higher levels of patterning which it can, but it cant formulate directly from material in to culture.

some of the language which goes back to various parts of the world sounds mystical, but it could be immersed in certain false shells having to do with fundamental religion and what we think of it now. the interaction between the actual written statement, the framework of language/religion/school, the actual binding to physical event phenomena is not clearly designated. yet, the psychologization of these sorts of "intuitive remarks" to "concrete remarks" of diverse density and archetypal levels is useful despite their origination. well its basically an extrapolation based on certain logical-intuitions.

one of the main "theories" of it is the rendered "quasi-infinite depth of significations". which does to show that there are some field metrics involved in ideas. usually several things surrounding an occasion that arent noticed without a higher understanding.

the difference between these sorts of visual-intuitive understandings or basically the possibility of more holistic realms, not necessarily absolute realms and science is that science goes by elementary functions. all hard sciences are based on mathematical elementary functions. neuroscience for example is a medium based approximate fluctuation exchange language it is based on math that was already done. these other types of things are potentially outside of the field of the current paradigm of science, "basic elementary functions" while the brain or consciousness might be able to understand "higher manifolds" which could be another theoretical level of science.

on the other hand, it could just be some sedimentary elusive quirk in understanding, the uncovering of a closer mechanisms in a more elementary deterministic fashion, or more realistically according to these new age types of books it could just be another type of measurnment all together that we dont have.

i dont know i think its relation to tarot divisional syncronicity is not that far apart or i ching divisional syncronicity. overall the universe is never in the same spot so its hard to find the "real basis".




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-cl9OVns5A

check out this video and compare december (sagittarius) to january (capricorn) or how the jupiter learning style is less suitable for the classroom than the saturn learning style.

[Kannon]

annran, most astrologers do not work from a place of 'stellar event A causes event B on Earth.' There is no linear cause-and-effect, but general movement from numerous (perhaps innumerable) factors combined synergistically for different types of conditions.

Frank's watch analogy is perfect and very well said.

Q: How do you think the rocks and balls of gases millions of miles away can predict future of a person?
A: They don't. People make predictions based on their observations of the planets and other cosmic phenomena and come to conclusions.

Q: And now that Pluto has been dismissed as a planet, what effect did this had on Astrology?
A: It has no effect on how I practice astrology.

"The truth is very relative" - this is wisdom that should inform the rest of your rational basis for understanding. You cannot rationally come to negative conclusions until you have enough information relative to the subject matter. However, building information can inform in an affirmative direction. Additional information may correct some misconceptions. This is the current state of understanding on the planet overall - we are emerging from an age of darkened understanding in which we are just beginning to fully map out our own planet. Likewise the cosmos. However, this does not invalidate the understanding reached so far in even areas of study (science) like Astrology. It just means it is in a stage of development relative to where the planet's consciousness is as a whole.

re: karma
Karma is inseperable from reincarnation and is not 'punishment for sins' but is experiencing the consequences of one's own actions (often while walking in different shoes in a later lifetime). This is for the purpose of learning - developing - evolving.

Q: How does position of planets, which something is totally isolated, far off objects affect us?
A: How does the Sun which is 'far off' affect us? We can describe it in terms of energy and heat because those terms result from serious study and inquiry that others have done for hundreds of years. Energy is required for life and that is also the basis of astrology. "Energy" may be a vague term for you in the context of astrology, but it is the same as it does within any other context: force, action. First start by questioning how Earth's satellite, the Moon, affects us. Your term 'isolated' is inapproprate. Nothing that our senses can identify is isolated. The use of that term relative to parts of a solar system moving in beautiful, synchronistic rhythm reflects the state of your consciousness - separatist. In that state of mind you will not discover the answers you are seeking, which speak to the connections of things. The senses and light connect us. What we do with that from there is up to us.

re: Frank's request that annran explain how the computer works
Implying that Astrology can't really be anything other than 'placebo' effect because any given person cannot find someone to explain it, doesn't draw the logical conclusion that it cannot be real. There are inventions by Tesla that still cannot be explained by current mainstream scientific understanding. This doesn't mean they were not real or 'science.' You are confusing current scientific convention (a paradigm of understanding and terminology) with the end reach of truth. If this were the reality there would be no reason to continue inquiry of any kind in any direction!

Don't wipe out electro-magnetism as part of the basis of astrology just because the planets are 'far away.' Light from other far suns reach us here in this system. We still do not have a full understanding of EM dynamics. How can you conclude that it 'cannot' be part of the phenomenon of astrology?

Astrology is also an inter-dimensional dynamic, not purely electro-magnetic. Our mainstream science is just beginning to enter this arena of multi-dimensionality, which apparently works through Torsion Fields. There is strong evidence that some of our established 'truths' in physics are wrong...
Hyperdimensional Eclipse

"We DO live in a Hyperdimensional Solar System … with ALL those attendant implications. Including-- The extraordinary concept of a Physics-based, actual 'Hyperdimensional astrology'..."
-- Richard C. Hoagland

[kimbermoon]

Quote [Don't wipe out electro-magnetism as part of the basis of astrology just because the planets are 'far away.' Light from other far suns reach us here in this system. We still do not have a full understanding of EM dynamics. How can you conclude that it 'cannot' be part of the phenomenon of astrology?]quote

I agree. Why not believe that the planets are the generators that engender energy responses in us, just as the sun does...and if it is all mythological what of all Jung's archetypal data? Perhaps it is more a matter of psychology than science...could that be the case? And why bother disputing the main topic that the forum is addressing?

[sworm09@yahoo.com]

Personally, I feel that the "Clock Theory" is as close as anyone could get to explaining Astrology. The positions of the planets don't cause things to happen here on Earth, they just happen at the same time as things on Earth. Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity. As Frank said in the above post, looking at your watch at 9:00 pm does not force you to go to bed. You decide to go to bed because you feel that it's the right time for it.

Now let's use Astrological terms.

Imagine the position of a clocks hands at 9:00pm, it's a 90 Degree angle. In Astrology this is called a square. The square is an aspect of high energy. I'm not trying to connect the square to 9:00pm, but the angle is what's important. So when planets are 90 degrees from each other, they are in a square, or there's high energy running between them. Let's say the square is between Mercury (Communication/Mind) and Mars (Assertion). That would mean there's a lot of energy between communication and assertion right now. This position doesn't force you to get into an argument, but it shows that that's what "time" it is. You could use that "time" to read or study as there's energy there. The position doesn't favor one over the other, but it indicates that that's the current tone right now. The Mercury-Mars 9:00 position, or square, doesn't cause arguments, it just happens at the same time. No one is absolutely sure as to why this happens. I was like you at a time, skeptical, yet curious. I often asked myself "How could people believe in something so stupid?". I began to research the subject, I began to write journal entries each day for a month, describing my moods, feelings, and emotions, as well as those of others. At the end of the month, I looked up the positions of the planets for each day. For each shift in mood, there was a planetary position that corresponded to it. Did they cause it? No, they just happened at the same time. Exploring your natal chart is the best way to begin studying Astrology. It gets a little strange when the natal chart can point out extremely subtle habits.

[gen6k]

i decided to try to formulate some notes on the theory of syncronicity and astrology or at least some of the possible scope of "usage archetypes".

these ideas are basically a zoom-in of some subtle philosophical/metaphysical remarks said in this video, regarding the liquidity of syncronious timing, and i wasent able to say what i wanted to try to get out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBBHA305AI

if this route is negated (jung) it would be something much more simple producing a large effect.



archaic transference - the eagle and the scorpion

perception, visual-psychology, symbology, collective unconscious, physics, syncronicity

the theory of archaic transference is derived from the preconception that archetypes are rendered to have "quasi-infinite depth". an archetype is an enigmatic enblem of diverse unfettered structure which is a precursor framework interlude to another designated sphere with some binding to psychological-physical phenomena. the depth of the archetype is designated in the post-millenium "id", kants apriori functions, platonic idealism, psychological quantum mechanics, ancient religion, etc. the emotional-intuitive nature of words are archetypes with variating directionalities and originations. archetypes in neuroscience function at various levels from unconscious, instinctual, visual rem sleep, to visualization. if an "archetype", the "archetype" must have "quasi-infinite depth", several things that are not there could be drawn out from it and further clarified, it could function at a level that is usually too quaint for the eye to see its interactions with the world.

the interaction of astrological symbolism with the world is not only implanted in cyclical timing devices and psychological reporting of those timings with the event. the archetypal extractions of the significators are implanted as the physical world, as culture, as mind. knowing the theoretical "physical framing" would result in the construction of more fine-tuned and appropriate significators with clarified definitions for the evolutionary cosmobiology at the center. the physical-cultural cosmobiology would be the unmasking of relations for space-time points in an archetypal framework. instead of a elementary function constituient framework. the holistic sense of divisional syncronicity would be explanatory of interrelations by casting light and shadow at each angle of phenomena (mind, physical, mental-physical, exterior, interior, inter-relational, societal, etc). the depth of "knowing" or "pointing" to these things without the consituient basis points to the fact that certain modalities of perception are mere overlays with a categorical function more intuit of a wider scope or pattern digression. the basis of the archetype is to be instilled at a functional basis of phenomena instead of a fanatical basis and thus the variability of its flair is insisted by psychcology at certain manifestations. thus the self-knowledge of the archetype is castrated, and illegible at its protracting basis. yet, it is further reified and utilized at certain junctions, and only a certain special knowledge could place it at a commanding place. the process of creation is inherent to certain qualities within the archetype, but the manipulation of the archetype is without quality of certain progenitors. in this sense, archetypes are not beleivable as reality, and many archetypes are sanctioned and stringed together by the mediums of exchange. a certain image of the archetype is diffused, unproportional and mirage-like in generality. the manifestation will of an archetype would implant and reify itself in the mystical counter-part of a physical manifestation, so its usage is usually a higher manifold of it. the immersion of archetypes echo and cascade throughout physical manifestation, but its liquidity escapes any attachment. god as creator of the universe, saturn as structure and time, a woman as a woman and so on. the extension of categorizing archetypes do not have a defined presupposition thus god can be "tracendental" or a "usage".

now the quirk lies where the archetype can function between the perceptual-dream world and the real world. the astral sleep world, the mental world, and have a function sedimented in and as a technological proliferation in the real world. information could be packaged inside an archetype and transfered over certain mediums without the package being opened inside the medium. an archetype is there to be drawn from with no other side, but a decision could be made that a certain action would take place. the inherent knowledge of the archetype is known immanently to the reoccurent psychology of a group, and thus only the shadow of it must be named. the zero-point structure of the archetype is syncronious to all resounding activity yet is corollary to only its passing over. from this it is possible that knowledge can be gained without direct attention to it. thus the interchange of divisional syncronicity which is the missing link between abstract multilevel patterns and constituent physics is a communal communication at a hyperdimensional rate. the symbol is located somewhere, but it also hovers above the plane at the same time.


lets try some thought experiments.

if astrology works in a 4D cosmophere. test astrological conditions in a protected area. no sun rays, no atmospheric dynamics except gravity, etc. will the participant still have an astrological variation. do quanities of subatomic particles that are able to go through shields change during astrological events. are timing measurnments not the only correlation to a particular event..

if synthetic points, cross-systems, harmonics function correctly, then the range of the astrological field is much wider than any astrology system. which would mean that its morphological existence without charts is more massive than we think. it can equal up to what it is, its functional base is a kind of symmetry.

the significators point to certain patternisitic intersected perceptual-environmental realms, but the primary qualities of astrological function are more likely to be morphogenetic fields that are syndiffeogenically connected. well the "form" it can take hold of is not originary. there should be clues to its resonance in every aspect of spacetime.

if astrology is a 4D problem then the solution would be to connect the structuralization of physics, nucleotide, biology, ecology, neuroscience, anthropology. physics is usually calculated from anterior quanta to structure, but the complex structuralization process is fragmented after certain crystalizations. there would still be a resonating pattern that is the "whole of the whole".

since it is possible to talk about 5 symmetry in threespace, or if the symmetrical reflection needs 2 more dimensions in order to correlate to threespace it is still hard to try to point to things without reflection on the symmetry.

an important thing to notice with dimensions is that matter is referenced to three dimensions, but consciousness is a self-referential point in three dimensions so it actually functions in 4 or more. so what i-ching, tarot, astrology do is reference the "helium" part of space with the other lower non-referential dimension. it could and does happen in three/four space, but one has to think of how these actually referenced outside of time.

whenever someone drops a card its not that there is a personal mind waiting inside the cards, but that someone made a formula of division in threespace that would always land on something relevant. the accuracy of the system is based on their instrinic complexity and allocation of this space. it is also possible that the formula drops mistaken cards because there is some randomness in the formula as well. its easier to think of it connecting an implicate order of 4 dimensions.

[sworm09@yahoo.com]

Originally Posted by gen6k

i decided to try to formulate some notes on the theory of syncronicity and astrology or at least some of the possible scope of "usage archetypes".

these ideas are basically a zoom-in of some subtle philosophical/metaphysical remarks said in this video, regarding the liquidity of syncronious timing, and i wasent able to say what i wanted to try to get out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBBHA305AI

if this route is negated (jung) it would be something much more simple producing a large effect.



archaic transference - the eagle and the scorpion

perception, visual-psychology, symbology, collective unconscious, physics, syncronicity

the theory of archaic transference is derived from the preconception that archetypes are rendered to have "quasi-infinite depth". an archetype is an enigmatic enblem of diverse unfettered structure which is a precursor framework interlude to another designated sphere with some binding to psychological-physical phenomena. the depth of the archetype is designated in the post-millenium "id", kants apriori functions, platonic idealism, psychological quantum mechanics, ancient religion, etc. the emotional-intuitive nature of words are archetypes with variating directionalities and originations. archetypes in neuroscience function at various levels from low-latent inhibition, visual rem sleep, to visualization. if an "archetype", the "archetype" must have "quasi-infinite depth", several things that are not there could be drawn out from it and further clarified, it could function at a level that is usually too quaint for the eye to see its interactions with the world.

the interaction of astrological symbolism with the world is not only implanted in cyclical timing devices and psychological reporting of those timings with the event. the archetypal extractions of the significators are implanted as the physical world, as culture, as mind. knowing the theoretical "physical framing" would result in the construction of more fine-tuned and appropriate significators with clarified definitions for the evolutionary cosmobiology at the center. the physical-cultural cosmobiology would be the unmasking of relations for space-time points in an archetypal framework. instead of a elementary function constituient framework. the holistic sense of divisional syncronicity would be explanatory of interrelations by casting light and shadow at each angle of phenomena (mind, physical, mental-physical, exterior, interior, inter-relational, societal, etc). the depth of "knowing" or "pointing" to these things without the consituient basis points to the fact that certain modalities of perception are mere overlays with a categorical function more intuit of a wider scope or pattern digression. the basis of the archetype is to be instilled at a functional basis of phenomena instead of a fanatical basis and thus the variability of its flair is insisted by psychcology at certain manifestations. thus the self-knowledge of the archetype is castrated, and illegible at its protracting basis. yet, it is further reified and utilized at certain junctions, and only a certain special knowledge could place it at a commanding place. the process of creation is inherent to certain qualities within the archetype, but the manipulation of the archetype is without quality of certain progenitors. in this sense, archetypes are not beleivable as reality, and many archetypes are sanctioned and stringed together by the mediums of exchange. a certain image of the archetype is diffused, unproportional and mirage-like in generality. the manifestation will of an archetype would implant and reify itself in the mystical counter-part of a physical manifestation, so its usage is usually a higher manifold of it. the immersion of archetypes echo and cascade throughout physical manifestation, but its liquidity escapes any attachment. god as creator of the universe, saturn as structure and time, a woman as a woman and so on. the extension of categorizing archetypes do not have a defined presupposition thus god can be "tracendental" or a "usage".

now the quirk lies where the archetype can function between the perceptual-dream world and the real world. the astral sleep world, the mental world, and have a function sedimented in and as a technological proliferation in the real world. information could be packaged inside an archetype and transfered over certain mediums without the package being opened inside the medium. an archetype is there to be drawn from with no other side, but a decision could be made that a certain action would take place. the inherent knowledge of the archetype is known immanently to the reoccurent psychology of a group, and thus only the shadow of it must be named. the zero-point structure of the archetype is syncronious to all resounding activity yet is corollary to only its passing over. from this it is possible that knowledge can be gained without direct attention to it. thus the interchange of divisional syncronicity which is the missing link between abstract multilevel patterns and constituent physics is a communal communication at a hyperdimensional rate. the symbol is located somewhere, but it also hovers above the plane at the same time.

Whew, you went much farther into this than I wanted to, but this is perfect.