Mercury in Sagittarius??

[*emma*]

Originally Posted by Sanaqua

I know someone with Scorpio Sun and Mercury in Saggi. He doesnt speak fast but he goes into unnecessary long details so much so that conversation will take quite an opposite route. The details are so long, unnecessary and irrelevant that the person he's talking to gets bored and this takes even hours, He'll speak on and on and on. He misses the point and then insists that he's always right. He'd even go to the extent of arguing. Many people have started avoiding him for his long details.

LOL!! I know someone exactly like that! You just have to say at some point shut up!

I think they are really having an argument with themselves.

[Sanaqua]

Originally Posted by Aeryn

Is he fascinated by these little details? Or does he simply waffle and ramble on without noticing that he's doing it?

I'd think that his Scorpio sun likes to delve deep and deal with the nitty gritty, followed by Sag Merc then looking at it and thinking "ooh! Look at it! Isn't it pretty!" Normally Scorpio likes to keep such discoveries to himself cause knowledge is power, but Sag doesn't think in those terms at all and just blurts it out. The self-righteousness is also something I recognise to be very Sagittarian.

We know we can trust our instincts, but sometimes forget that we, too, are human and maybe the information we're basing our opinion on is wrong, leading us to perfectly valid, yet wrong conclusions! Anybody else get this?

Aeryn, He got a Leo rising also. He LOVES showing off whatever he studies/reads. Downloads a lot of books which is not humanly possible to read and absorb with a continuing education. But he would boasts about it even then. It is my guess that he reads the first page, the last page and the list of the contents. Then he simply narrates what he already knows or whatever! I'm badly irritated because of this. He would show it off and would narrate even the simplest things which even we have read also and would insist that we listen to him because he "downloaded a book and it's written in there and you probably havent read it'. I mean this is extremely idiotic when someone starts studying only because he can boast about it later among others.

The worst thing is that when a classmate really needs his help about something he has studied, he becomes selfish and i feel, intentionally tries to tangle that person in unnecesssarily long introduction and the original stuff is just oneliner or may be a lame excuse that he cant tell it to someone. I dont know how to explain but for him, one example pops up into my mind. You might have read some internet articles which are written merely to make money, which are unnecessary details "lacking substance". You got my point?

This is really a drawback really.

[Sanaqua]

Originally Posted by *emma*

LOL!! I know someone exactly like that! You just have to say at some point shut up!

I think they are really having an argument with themselves.

Yeah i do feel like it too. Unnecessary long details, containing things which i know already but he insists that i listen him still because the next thing that will come forward will be what i dont know.. I mean, PLEASEEE! lol

[*emma*]

Originally Posted by Sanaqua

Yeah i do feel like it too. Unnecessary long details, containing things which i know already but he insists that i listen him still because the next thing that will come forward will be what i dont know.. I mean, PLEASEEE! lol

haha
the person i knew actually came out and said they wouldnt listen to anyone for more than two minutes but gave out long lectures about this that and the other

hypocritical, u see scorpios are not as wonderful as they make out to be like better than anyone else one of the most egotistical signs ever

[stephenseah007]

I have mercury in sagit too but maybe due to the ascendant sign is gemini , my speech is more well controlled

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by stephenseah007

I have mercury in sagit too but maybe due to the ascendant sign is gemini , my speech is more well controlled

Hey stephenseah007,
Strange enough, for me - I find having my mercury in sag and a gemini rising makes it 'worse' or should I say more challenging. That could be because they're closely opposed to one another in my chart though, not sure. I find that when i'm relaxed, intellectually my speech is great but the thinking at the same time brings is a breakdown in how I want to communicate. Hard to explain.

[marwan38]

Mercury 3rd house sagg conj venus. Virgo asc

What these people said is correct. I do tend to have problems explaining the small details. My thoughts get mixed up along with my speech. Big ideas is where i come to shine. I don't like talking much; Well I feel that talking should only be done when needed. And those who talk a lot, Oh hell, I can't stand them.

I have moments when I speak more than usual, but that is usually under the influence of alcohol OR i am in a discussion/argument.

Btw: i LOVE discussions/arguments.

[tsmall]

Originally Posted by marwan38

Mercury 3rd house sagg.

What these people said is correct. I do tend to have problems explaining the small details. My thoughts get mixed up along with my speech. Big ideas is where i come to shine. I don't like talking much; Well I feel that talking should only be done when needed. And those who talk a lot, Oh hell, I can't stand them.

This is likely because Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius, as it opposes Gemini, his domicile. Further proof that the detriments work? Big idea's shining? Let's look at how dignified your Jupiter is, and where he is in the chart?

[marwan38]

Originally Posted by tsmall

This is likely because Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius, as it opposes Gemini, his domicile. Further proof that the detriments work? Big idea's shining? Let's look at how dignified your Jupiter is, and where he is in the chart?

/- Using tropical method -/

Jupiter falls in my second house, in Scorpio.

What is your say on the effects of Jupiter on speech?

[tsmall]

Originally Posted by marwan38

/- Using tropical method -/

Jupiter falls in my second house, in Scorpio.

What is your say on the effects of Jupiter on speech?

Funny, with the two charts. So tropical? First, please excuse that you know a total natal chart takes a while to delineate? But...It's a night chart, which automatically puts Jupiter in Scorpio out of sect? Mars is the triplicity ruler of Jupiter, is in a fire sign so can act up the dickens, and is conjunct/combust the Sun. Jupiter and Mercury are in aversion, and even then, Jupiter out of sect tends to work against the native instead of for him/her. Virgo is the sign of discerning the details, and in this tropical chart is in your 12th, so that could explain a few things there. Mercury conjuncts your in sect benefic (Venus) who is also the ruler of your ASC, and with the Sun in the same sign/house shows that you understand the details, but cadent and unable to see it's ruler? Maybe how come you can't explain them well?

The thing is, there are mute signs and vocal ones, just like there are barren and fertile signs. And again, a whole chart takes a long time to read. But...that's this student's two cents and ten minutes' worth.

[Aeryn]

Originally Posted by Sanaqua

Aeryn, He got a Leo rising also. He LOVES showing off whatever he studies/reads. [...] I mean this is extremely idiotic when someone starts studying only because he can boast about it later among others.

The worst thing is that when a classmate really needs his help about something he has studied, he becomes selfish and i feel, intentionally tries to tangle that person in unnecesssarily long introduction[...]

Only just saw this. Sanaqua, from a psychological point he is clearly compensating for something he is lacking. Sounds like he doesn't get enough respect (recognition, admiration,...) which could be a childhood thing. So he tries to maneuver himself into situations where he can shine, hopefully earning said respect. But whenever we do something that is not selfless but instead self-serving - and especially when it's in the guise of heroism, people tend to sense that, call you on your BS (out loud or subconcsiously) and the maneuver backfires, aggravating the initial problem. It's a vicious cycle that he needs to become aware of to break out of it, before he can find what he's actually looking for: respect. It's a basic human need, just like food, water and shelter.

Leo is all about a sense of self-worth and Leo rising makes finding that sense of self-worth all the more important. House location of the sun shows which area of our lives we need to dive into to find that sense of self worth. The sign shows how and of course Sag is all about knowledge, among other things. Mercury in Sag makes him want to communicate it, too! Is there an aspect between his AC and his Sun and/or Merc?

I, too, have Leo rising, Sun and Merc in Sag and I can confirm that my entire world shakes if somebody doesn't listen to the wealth of knowledge I've accumulated... SOOO frustrating! Makes life feel pointless! That's how tightly knit knowledge and the communication of it is linked to my sense of self-worth, my purpose and the respect I hope to earn with it. But I'm aware, so it's okay.

PS: Withholding his knowledge or presenting it in intentionally complicated long-winded ways is not about respect, but power, so I'd say it's a Pluto/Scorpio thing. Check what's happening there. Psychologically speaking: Someone who doesn't feel respected may also feel powerless and purposeless, which may give rise to maneuvers surrounding the power theme, in addition to those about respect.

[catastrophe]

Originally Posted by Aeryn

The sign shows how and of course Sag is all about knowledge, among other things. Mercury in Sag makes him want to communicate it, too! Is there an aspect between his AC and his Sun and/or Merc?

I, too, have Leo rising, Sun and Merc in Sag and I can confirm that my entire world shakes if somebody doesn't listen to the wealth of knowledge I've accumulated... SOOO frustrating! Makes life feel pointless! That's how tightly knit knowledge and the communication of it is linked to my sense of self-worth, my purpose and the respect I hope to earn with it. But I'm aware, so it's okay.

PS: Withholding his knowledge or presenting it in intentionally complicated long-winded ways is not about respect, but power, so I'd say it's a Pluto/Scorpio thing. Check what's happening there. Psychologically speaking: Someone who doesn't feel respected may also feel powerless and purposeless, which may give rise to maneuvers surrounding the power theme, in addition to those about respect.

You are very good with your words, I would like to add What you said here, almost sounds like you're talking about me... Merc/Sag/III, Jupiter/Leo/X, but usually my Sun/Moon/Capricorn/III is able to hold back against 'forcing my knowledge' onto others; as in; your loss, not mine. Definitely makes it tough, though! My Mercury only makes aspects with Novile to Pluto, and Conjunct my Moon... but that's it.
My communication tendencies usually fall around the emotional necessity (for them, or Me! ) and sometimes it's so articulated, it seems like I just end up talking their head straight off, and that I lost them, far back they decided to stop listening, usually because it's an emotional subject, making them reluctant to listen or participate in conversation...
I need an outlet for communication, or a willing audience

[Aeryn]

Originally Posted by catastrophe

You are very good with your words, I would like to add [...] My Mercury only makes aspects with Novile to Pluto, and Conjunct my Moon... but that's it.

Why thank you!

Me and my best friend have that conjunction, too. Intellect and emotions so tightly connected that when one is triggered so is the other. I find that when I'm agitated my ability to communicate goes out the window. Moon takes over and Mercury takes a step back until Moon calms down. Additionally my friend and I both have a very intellectual understanding of our emotions. (Me more than her, but my conj is tighter, too.) It's where my fascination with psychology comes from: I realized that even before training, my understanding of it was already greater than that of most people.

If you find yourself talking about emotional things to people who have - at some point - stopped listening, two things have happened:
1) You didn't make sure that what you were saying landed. You weren't paying attention to your conversational partner! Otherwise you would have noticed the moment it happened. If you don't connect with them then you are actually more difficult to understand. It costs a lot of energy to decipher what you're saying so you may simply overwhelm them. And when they stop understanding they stop listening. Or maybe they get bored because you don't truly involve them in the conversation. They might as well not be there. So the key is "Less is more." Choose your words, say them, then check whether they landed. Make sure you still have their attention, give them a chance to respond and if they don't, continue. It takes energy at first but you can learn it.
2) Another possibility is that your understanding of your emotional state/needs is simply over their heads! Not everybody has a Moon/Merc conjunction. Find people who do have that understanding.

[Mayagrwd]

Im also scorpio and mercury is my chart ruler, in Sagittarius. Im not really a fan of chatting. Usually listen more than speak, and if i want to, I prefer it in a straightforward and quick way. What ive noticed about Merc Sagittarius people is not being confusing/confused, detailing... But more trying to inserts jokes and making it theatrically while they speak. Even when they are in a serious environment, they (we lol) tend to "act" at least a bit

[Aeryn]

Originally Posted by Mayagrwd

Im also scorpio and mercury is my chart ruler, in Sagittarius. Im not really a fan of chatting. Usually listen more than speak, and if i want to, I prefer it in a straightforward and quick way. What ive noticed about Merc Sagittarius people is not being confusing/confused, detailing... But more trying to inserts jokes and making it theatrically while they speak. Even when they are in a serious environment, they (we lol) tend to "act" at least a bit

HAH! I'll sign that. While my virgoan 3rd house makes me keep my communication precise and correct to avoid any misunderstandings, and my moon conjunct mercury makes sure I can't keep the emotions out of it, I do use big words and do not sugarcoat. And I can see the humor in it and I'll play with that, too. So my communication is seen as dramatic by the normal folks. But I just don't see the point in softening my message because I'm sure it won't be understood if I do!

Well, that is when I have time to make a point. When I'm caught off-guard in a discussion with no previous imaginary talks on the subject I get hectic and anxious and Moon takes over, talking in emotional truths, which makes me look like a very irrational person.

[catbebe20]

Originally Posted by njmfff

pretty much like every Sag I know... They'll go around and talk for hours about philosophy, starts, moon, world in general , but when you ask them simple question like "What time is it?" they just look back at you in confusion... lol

Couldn't stop chuckling when I read this. I am exactly like that.

[Skywomb]

Posted this one elsewhere might post here as well:http://books.google.se/books?id=W0ac...20merc&f=false


People often say I'm "too much"..haha, yea I tend to talk rapidly and forget details cause my head is all over the place... Uranus rising and Mars etc in Scorpio doesn't really help being "less much". and it being in the 12th well I need to work on making myself clear to others when I do intend so, for sure.

I'm perversely inclined to mix too many subjects or ways of saying things.

[Skywomb]

Originally Posted by robots

I have mercury in Sagittarius too. Fun stuff. I talk too fast, I occasionally stop making sense, and I often talk about things that other people don't care about that I happen to be REALLY excited about.
Like, I tell all my friends about various astrological findings in my chart or whatever, and they just seem to pretend to listen. I just feel the need to get it all out because it's so exciting.

Writing is much easier for me than talking. With writing, I have the chance to formulate all my thoughts into a cohesive idea whereas when I speak I just tend to ramble until something somewhere makes sense.
People that aren't used to talking to me often get confused by my various rants, overly fast-paced speeches, and ever-changing train of thought. Makes me have to repeat myself a lot.

The blunt speech thing is definitely true too. I've been accused of being too brutally honest, especially to the people closest to me.

Ditto, basically.

Except I have a harder time writing, at least as far as making sense and being cohesive (unless I take insane amount of time for it).
When I talk I can pick up instantly if people don't get it, when I write (long stuff anyway) I can only constantly stop my train of thought (annoying as hell) to make sure I haven't got way out...
Like if I were to write some assignment for school, usually I'd end up ripping the paper into different pieces and puzzling it together......a lot of times the end part ends up at the beginning and so on.
But yes I can "put more in there" when writing, but takes more effort sorting it out, unless it's extremely short a format....one-liners preferably.

[JUPITERASC]

re: Mercury in Sagittarius, the house location as well as sign location of Jupiter are important considerations

[gen6k]

the best speaker i know with mercury in sagittarius is terrence mckenna.

he has a scorpio sun
and virgo moon
his moon is quintile uranus

if the particular-whole polarity can be created somewhere within the native then
some of its effects are reduced. for example mercury in sag tends to kind of give a quick look at the situation and try to wrap around it quickly and move on. it also tends to speak in large vocal images. alluding to different parts of society, tasks with a kind of victorian sense of personality. it can turn out to be pretty empty of detail and portray an image, but it can also turn out to be capturing the details plus the whole picture. and many other combinations. its also a metaphorical truth arrow, but it tends towards premature poetization of language. it also does better at alluding to "general organizations" rather than mechanization of process. the gist of what it does instead of what it goes through. theres a tendency towards an elongation of an image. so if this can include several shafting, and turns maybe it can learn to control the use of certain realms.