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Old 05-06-2012, 12:39 AM
CapGoddess CapGoddess is offline
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Aspects self harm/ hatred

Has anyone noticed any patterns of certain aspects with this topic?

From experience I'd say perhaps Moon/Saturn connections.

Wondering though, would an unaspected Mars in Aquarius feel the need to release energy in this way?

This is a serious topic, and I am not looking for trouble or what have you.

Just curious as to how this plays out in the natal.

Responses welcome.

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  #2  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:44 AM
Tanne Tanne is offline
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I have 3 clients that self harm.

I noticed the following:

Asc ruler aspected by Mars.
Moon in water sign.
Moon aspected by both Saturn and Mars - not always hard aspects though.

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Tanne
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:02 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Thank you Tanne you've been very helpful.

That is what I thought with the Saturn Moon.

Still curious about that unaspected Mars.

Thank you for the comment.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:33 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

None of my clients have an unaspected Mars but 3 is not a very big sample group!! All my clients have self harmed for many years.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:47 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Angelina Jolie used to self harm.

Asc ruler Moon conjunct Mars.
Moon in fire sign - Aries.
Moon square Saturn and conjunct Mars.

Miley Cyrus might self harm.

Asc ruler Jupiter square Mars - very wide though.
Moon in water sign - Scorpio.
Moon square Saturn and trine Mars.

Russel Brand used to self harm.
Asc ruler Saturn square Mars.
Moon in fire sign - Aries.
Moon square Saturn and conjunct Mars.

So it looks like the Moon in a water sign does not hold water!!
But, the Moon aspected by Saturn and Mars seems to be holding up - as is the Asc ruler aspected by Mars.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Interesting about the Moon in the fire sign of Aries.

I'll have to take another look at Mars in my chart, perhaps I have missed something.

Thank you for the reply.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:38 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

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Originally Posted by CapGoddess View Post
Interesting about the Moon in the fire sign of Aries.

I'll have to take another look at Mars in my chart, perhaps I have missed something.

Thank you for the reply.
Perhaps you'd care to share your own chart, so we can have a look too?
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:43 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

bad moon pluto aspects often show self hatred in a native.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Moog, I don't know how to post a pic of my chart and would probably mess it up so I'll give you guys my birth data:

Dec 31 1982 in Biddeford, Maine at 9:00 pm.

MaeMae- I have also found what you posted to be true.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

So it looks like the Moon in a water sign does not hold water!!
.[/QUOTE]

My own daughter was secretly cutting herself in a period during her teen years...at the same time she had an underlying thyroid problem that was yet to be diagnosed...they treated her for bi-polar disease which was later found to be a misdiagnosis.

She has a 12th house moon[hidden behaviors] in pisces [suicidal ideation] in opposition to Jupiter/Virgo in the 6th [health]which I think was the keynote for such behavior...in the 6th she also has a conjunction of Saturn and Mars, as well as the placement of Pluto therein, which I agree can contribute to obsessive compulsive disorders.


She also has a Venus/Neptune opposition [for which she suffered from low self-esteem and imagined feelings of unworthiness and lack of confidence...this opposition also forms a t-square to her Mars/Saturn conjunct in the 6th.


For those of us who do not suffer from such distorted views of 'self-destruction' it is hard to understand why a person would do such a thing...she has said that she felt the act was about 'relieving' the pressure she felt within...perhaps a genetic disposition towards 'blood letting'; as such it was a coping method...in many cases it is not necessarily about 'punishment for guilt' and some have said that the pain is not a deterrent to continuing the behavior...think about it, bleeding itself does not always generate pain; perhaps it is more of the type of rush that people claim to get from getting tattoos; in counselling then we have to get to the bottom of the subconscious reactions to internalized issues relating to hopelessness, low self-image, frustration and a lack of dealing with external stressors which precede the act. It would seem that such people feel disoriented or disassociated from their peers and have no sense of faith in the meaning and purpose of life, and so they become adrift in the sea of emotions.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:15 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I used to secretly cut or belt myself after a break-up or a fight with/between my parents.

My moon's in virgo in the 8th.
square mars.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:49 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapGoddess View Post
Moog, I don't know how to post a pic of my chart and would probably mess it up so I'll give you guys my birth data
Thanks, I prefer straight data really, since I use mostly Indian methodology.

I find your Moon in Cancer, in the 12th house. Saturn aspects. There's also a cluster of planets in Capricorn opposite the Moon; Venus and Mercury dislike the Moon, so that could be a source of tension. Mars is there too.

I know that Jolie's Moon is with Mars (I was looking at her chart earlier today). And it makes sense, with Mars being 'the cutter'. An active and aggressive thing to do, even to oneself.

Nearly every planet in the chart aspects your Moon by Vedic standards, including Jupiter and Rahu. It's a complex picture. Quite hard to isolate what's doing what here in your chart.

Have there been times in your life in which you've been more prone to self harm than others?
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:39 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Thanks, I prefer straight data really, since I use mostly Indian methodology.

I find your Moon in Cancer, in the 12th house. Saturn aspects. There's also a cluster of planets in Capricorn opposite the Moon; Venus and Mercury dislike the Moon, so that could be a source of tension. Mars is there too.

I know that Jolie's Moon is with Mars (I was looking at her chart earlier today). And it makes sense, with Mars being 'the cutter'. An active and aggressive thing to do, even to oneself.

Nearly every planet in the chart aspects your Moon by Vedic standards, including Jupiter and Rahu. It's a complex picture. Quite hard to isolate what's doing what here in your chart.

Have there been times in your life in which you've been more prone to self harm than others?
I must say I didn't even consider Vedic Astrology. Interesting about the 12th house Moon in Cancer Vedic-wise. In western my Moon is in Leo in the 11th.

I was thinking Mars has something to do with it. It is in my sixth house I remember reading somewhere the 6th having to do with working with tools and I just considered Mars in the sixth a sharp instrument kinda thing. I could be completely off on that one though.

Lately I've only self harmed when I can not sleep. I've been getting better about not doing it. I'm on Ambien and still lay in bed 4 hours after I take it until I eventually fall asleep. It's mostly a stress related thing.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:21 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapGoddess View Post
I must say I didn't even consider Vedic Astrology. Interesting about the 12th house Moon in Cancer Vedic-wise. In western my Moon is in Leo in the 11th.
What's your ascending sign in western tropical? Better check I've got the right timezone. My software is sometimes a little dodgy about those.

Quote:
I was thinking Mars has something to do with it. It is in my sixth house I remember reading somewhere the 6th having to do with working with tools and I just considered Mars in the sixth a sharp instrument kinda thing. I could be completely off on that one though.
I think Mars is associated with that house as it's 'joy' in western traditional material. But I haven't read anything more specific about Mars and the 6th in that vein.

The 6th is an Upachaya house and Malefics placed in them are supposed to behave better over time.

Quote:
Lately I've only self harmed when I can not sleep. I've been getting better about not doing it. I'm on Ambien and still lay in bed 4 hours after I take it until I eventually fall asleep. It's mostly a stress related thing.
That's quite interesting, as the 12th is the house of bed and sleep in the Indian astrological lore

Indian astrologers consider aspects to fall on the houses as well as the planets stationed there, a difference from the western style.

http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Bhava/12vyaya_bhava.htm

Another point of connection between you and Jolie that I noticed is that you both have a Sun/Ketu (south node) conjunction.

From the dates I can gather from the net, Jolie's self harming seems to have begun close to the onset of her Ketu mahadasa.

I haven't looked into that much beyond that though.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:45 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
What's your ascending sign in western tropical? Better check I've got the right timezone. My software is sometimes a little dodgy about those.

I think Mars is associated with that house as it's 'joy' in western traditional material. But I haven't read anything more specific about Mars and the 6th in that vein.

The 6th is an Upachaya house and Malefics placed in them are supposed to behave better over time.

That's quite interesting, as the 12th is the house of bed and sleep in the Indian astrological lore

Indian astrologers consider aspects to fall on the houses as well as the planets stationed there, a difference from the western style.

http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Bhava/12vyaya_bhava.htm

Another point of connection between you and Jolie that I noticed is that you both have a Sun/Ketu (south node) conjunction.

From the dates I can gather from the net, Jolie's self harming seems to have begun close to the onset of her Ketu mahadasa.

I haven't looked into that much beyond that though.
In Western my Ascendant is Virgo.

Interesting the 12th house is sleep.

I'll check that link out sometime, and if you have any other Indian sites you could recommend I'd be grateful. Perhaps it could give me a better perspective astrologically.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I think I'd recommend a book first; piecing together the various parts of the systems from web sites can be rather trying. Barbara's site contains masses of excellent information, it's just a bit un-user friendly.

Astrology of the Seers by David Frawley is an excellent beginner's guide to Hindu astrology,

I think it's a big and daunting thing to get into; getting a good solid foothold in the mountain is essential.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:20 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I think I'd recommend a book first; piecing together the various parts of the systems from web sites can be rather trying. Barbara's site contains masses of excellent information, it's just a bit un-user friendly.

Astrology of the Seers by David Frawley is an excellent beginner's guide to Hindu astrology,

I think it's a big and daunting thing to get into; getting a good solid foothold in the mountain is essential.
Thank you for the recommendation.

I was wondering do you know whether my Moon actually is in Cancer in 12th in Vedic Astrology?

I just want to be sure either way.

-CapGoddess
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:18 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

If it helps anyones research, a couple years ago I went through hell and hated myself. It was a most horrid time filled with guilt and fear and foreboding. I have checked back on transits and I had Saturn conjunct Sun and square Mars. I can only guess it was the usual self bashing, not achieved enough, not honest enough, just giving oneself a hard time. Looking back was all self inflicted but I felt powerless. That was the answer. Giving power away to others, the outside world, seeking validation from that, which is a total nonsense, instead of building my own self respect up and giving myself credit and realising I am a wonderful human being despite any normal faults. Having said that I think the transit, which is always to do with the natal configurations, was to do with ambition, failure, not having goals and feeling left like a damp squib

Just my two cents.

Last edited by *emma*; 05-07-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:57 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapGoddess View Post
Thank you for the recommendation.

I was wondering do you know whether my Moon actually is in Cancer in 12th in Vedic Astrology?

I just want to be sure either way.

-CapGoddess
Yes.

But you can cast a wholesign/sidereal chart on astro.com if you'd like to check/compare for yourself. Extended Chart selection.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:12 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Hmm... I've never harmed myself (even though I was a bit bulimic at one time, if you count that), but I've certainly hated myself at times. Not because I did things that were bad, but I felt so insecure and misunderstood that I just hated myself.
I attribute most of that to my Moon-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio in the 4th house (Sun and Mercury are conjunct in Scorpio as well).
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:02 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I don't self-harm, but I've gone through periods where I'd find myself in situations in which I would recklessly throw caution to the wind; I just didn't care what might happen to me as a consequence. I have struggled with self-loathing; it's turned out to be a life's work, and I've had setbacks from time to time.

My Luna is in Cancer, conjunct AC on the XII house side. Depending on the orb you use (it's a little wide for my current thinking, but some astrologers use wider orbs for the aspect),

Luna trines Mars (Pisces IX) within about 4°25', and
is within 46' of quadranovile to Saturn (Aqua, conj cusp of VIII).

I also have the Venus/Neptune opposition (Taurus XI/Scorpio V) within a little over 3° of exact.

Currently, I'm experiencing my Chiron return (Pisces IX) and will be in the midst of that until February. In my natal chart,

Venus and Chiron are in sextile (and again, depending on the orb you use, is within 3°35' of trine to Neptune).

I think the wedge created by Venus, Neptune, and Chiron might be a little more of a toxic cocktail than I had previously assumed...
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:07 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I used to self-harm, in fact. I have Moon in Scorpio and it's squaring Mars and sextiling Saturn. It's conjunct Pluto, too. I used to do that while drunk (Mercury and Sun in Cancer opposing Neptune). Mars square Pluto seems to point at that, too. Even now that I've stopped that habit years now, I still have intense thoughts of self-harm and I definitely hate it.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:14 AM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

I had a friend once that would self-abuse herself, not quite sure but she had a Leo moon and a Scorpio Sun so I think a combination of water and fire could possibly be an option or even Sun Square Moon.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:21 PM
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Re: Aspects self harm/ hatred

Self-Harm has something to do with moon in pisces I know a lot of suicidal people who have pisces moon and moon-pluto aspects cause when you use it badly it could be destructive moon saturn is another case.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapGoddess View Post
Moog, I don't know how to post a pic of my chart and would probably mess it up so I'll give you guys my birth data:

Dec 31 1982 in Biddeford, Maine at 9:00 pm.

MaeMae- I have also found what you posted to be true.
I'm a little late to the conversation, but had to respond. This is my birthdate also, with a time of 11:30pm pacific.

While I do not self-harm, I am drawn to the submissive role in a BDSM relationship. I also have a Venus-Pluto square, which can express the darker side of romance, as well as the moon-Saturn square. My unaspected mars is in Aquarius, which can explain the sexual adventurousness.

The only significant difference in our charts would be I have a libra rising, while yours is cancer. Libra tends to project onto their partner, while cancer protects. This could be why I need to experience pain through a partner, and you on your own.

Last edited by LoneMars; 07-31-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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