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  #1  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:36 PM
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The chart manipulators!

Is it actually not manipulating the chart when we increase the orb at the 'extended chart selection' section at astro.com?

When I increase the orb to 135% I have Sun conjunct MC
I like the idea of it, but it doesn't seem so 'honest' to me.
My Sun is at 02.05 degrees and the MC is at 15.27 degrees..

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Old 05-05-2012, 10:42 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

I would consider them to be conjunct as long as they are in the same sign, which it sounds like yours are. Orbs in natal charts strike me as different from transits. Natal aspects by sign are valid, even if the orb is wide.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:57 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Wow, really? But the allowed orb for the sun is 12 degrees, mine is 13, isn't this a problem?
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:03 AM
MaeMae MaeMae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Is it actually not manipulating the chart when we increase the orb at the 'extended chart selection' section at astro.com?

When I increase the orb to 135% I have Sun conjunct MC
I like the idea of it, but it doesn't seem so 'honest' to me.
My Sun is at 02.05 degrees and the MC is at 15.27 degrees..
the mc is not a planet.
if you had planets in orb of and in aspect to moon and mc ~ connective rods ~ the two could take on a conjunctive quality through a connect the dot theory.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:42 AM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaeMae View Post
the mc is not a planet.
if you had planets in orb of and in aspect to moon and mc ~ connective rods ~ the two could take on a conjunctive quality through a connect the dot theory.
I have venus in tenth, conjunct MC, Venus is at 24.47 degrees. Do you mean that MC is the dot between venus and sun?
My sun doesn't have aspect to moon, they are inconjunct. But venus has a trine to moon.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:00 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Does Venus help?
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:59 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Does Venus help?
Help what?

Can you attach a chart?
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:14 AM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Help what?

Can you attach a chart?
Sorry, my computer is still not fixed .
I mean this: you said that if I had planets conjunct the MC that would be helpfull to count the sun as conjunct MC according to the "connect the dot theory". And the Moon is involved too, but not directly to MC, it is trine venus.
Am I misunderstanding you?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:05 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

I have found, in practice, the most often accurate way is to use small orbs AND, if finding a planet with few or no aspects within orb, to THEN consider aspect by sign (like they do in Vedic astrology, and like they did during the early Hellenistic period)
I believe aspects by degree are more specific and intense, but that aspect by sign (if not superceded by aspect by degree) also can show important albeit more diffuse planetary connections and influences.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:42 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

If a planet has few aspects and none within commonly used orbs, would the next step to be consider those aspects as strongest amongst aspect-by-sign?

p.s. funny thread title, I laughed when I read that!
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:40 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

That's a really wide orb. Personally, I wouldn't consider it ... unless maybe Leo rules the MC. Even then, it just looks too wide to me.

But what do YOU think? Does it feel like a conjunction?

I've been thinking about Dr Farr's comment re: a planet with no/few major aspects and its connection to other planets in the same sign. Would both planets need to be in the same house, then? Does this same-sign connection work, even with a very wide orb?

In my chart, Sun at 6 Virgo makes several connections, but Saturn at 20 Virgo makes no major aspects. Sun is in 10th; Saturn at 11th cusp (Koch), or in 10th (Placidus). Honestly, I'm just not the sort of buttoned-down person I would expect with this pair of planets conjunct, and Saturn does the on-and-off thing that I would associate with an unaspected planet. So, it doesn't seem to work for me, but maybe it does for other people.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:22 PM
MaeMae MaeMae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
I have venus in tenth, conjunct MC, Venus is at 24.47 degrees. Do you mean that MC is the dot between venus and sun?
My sun doesn't have aspect to moon, they are inconjunct. But venus has a trine to moon.
FML ~
i was speaking of other planets contained between the mc and distant planet or by aspect.
eg:
Venus 15 libra, MC 29 Libra ~
(merc 23 libra btwn the two)
I would see it as a conjunctive aspect btwn Venus & MC.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2012, 04:54 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy_AzVirgo View Post
That's a really wide orb. Personally, I wouldn't consider it ... unless maybe Leo rules the MC. Even then, it just looks too wide to me.

But what do YOU think? Does it feel like a conjunction?

I've been thinking about Dr Farr's comment re: a planet with no/few major aspects and its connection to other planets in the same sign. Would both planets need to be in the same house, then? Does this same-sign connection work, even with a very wide orb?

In my chart, Sun at 6 Virgo makes several connections, but Saturn at 20 Virgo makes no major aspects. Sun is in 10th; Saturn at 11th cusp (Koch), or in 10th (Placidus). Honestly, I'm just not the sort of buttoned-down person I would expect with this pair of planets conjunct, and Saturn does the on-and-off thing that I would associate with an unaspected planet. So, it doesn't seem to work for me, but maybe it does for other people.
Leo is not the ruler of the tenth, But I have Sun trine ascendant Leo.
Mc is in taurus, with venus in taurus there.
The sun does feel like a conjunction, but I don't know if it is the Leo ascendant trine sun, or sun conjunct MC.
Whatever it is, it is my queste for this life to understand my sun anyway, because I have the sun in tight conjunction with the north node.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:34 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
If a planet has few aspects and none within commonly used orbs, would the next step to be consider those aspects as strongest amongst aspect-by-sign?

p.s. funny thread title, I laughed when I read that!

That is the way I do it ! I don't think we HAVE to be either/or about this: eg, Vedic ONLY considers aspect by sign (like the early Hellenists did), Traditionalist and Modernist ONLY consider aspects by degree; I think we can potentially use both, which is what I have done (as I have described above)
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:36 AM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Judy:
Both ( or all, if more than 2) planets would need to be in the same SIGN for the "conjunction by sign" to occur (this was the teaching of the Hellenists and continues to be the teaching in Vedic astrology) However, if one is using either a quadrant house system (like Placidus) or an Equal house system, the planets would NOT necessarily have to be in the same HOUSE, for the conjunction-by-sign to occur.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:47 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Leo is not the ruler of the tenth, But I have Sun trine ascendant Leo.
Mc is in taurus, with venus in taurus there.
The sun does feel like a conjunction, but I don't know if it is the Leo ascendant trine sun, or sun conjunct MC.
Whatever it is, it is my queste for this life to understand my sun anyway, because I have the sun in tight conjunction with the north node.
I think it's not uncommon for people to have to learn to "do" their Sun... aspire to it maybe. Having your NN conjunct Sun could be one reason. Also, it looks as if you have very strong Venus vibes, with Venus conjunct Taurus MC, and apparently Libra Moon. So maybe for you, the energy of Venus has been easier to access so far in your life? Though I have a hard time thinking that Sun trine Leo Ascendant wouldn't be shining for all to see!

Wish you could post your chart...
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:49 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Yes, I think I'm more of a venus person than a sun person. But unfortunately the south node is 'venusian' too. Feeling it to the bottom with saturn transit now..
But I like the POF-moon-venus trines

This chart shows the sun with increased orb to 135%...
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2012, 11:11 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

With Sun, Moon and Venus, plus MC and South Node in Venus-ruled signs -- and especially Venus very strong in one of its own signs -- I can see where expressing Venusian traits is like falling off a log for you... very easy.

But your Sun is part of that Venus thing, so I'm not sure why you feel you have trouble accessing it.... maybe because of the Pluto opposition? Moon quincunx to Sun isn't the easiest aspect for combining Sun-Moon energies -- but not awful, either.

I wonder what it is about your Taurus Sun that you feel you're NOT expressing?

Actually, it looks to me as if the Libra Moon would be more difficult to access -- it's your one and only Air planet, opposing Mercury, squaring Mars-Neptune, plus Moon rules your 12th. Moon trine Venus, tho, is really pretty. I have this in my chart, too, and it has been one saving grace in a chart full of difficult stuff.

PS: It has been years since I've thought of the South Node as "unfortunate". It's just an energy we express easily, from the get-go. Aries NN might be harder for you. Aries rules your 8th house... counseling of some sort? If so, maybe that's an expression of putting your NN to use.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:02 AM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Sorry, my computer is still not fixed .
I mean this: you said that if I had planets conjunct the MC that would be helpfull to count the sun as conjunct MC according to the "connect the dot theory". And the Moon is involved too, but not directly to MC, it is trine venus.
Am I misunderstanding you?
I think it was Maemae who said that.

I'm still just starting out, and taking a more traditional route. I think Judy's explination of the aspects is a good one.

A quick glance at your chart, and...I'm jealous. I see the ASC ruler in Taurus, with it's own ruler (Venus) there as well. With whole signs both these would be angular for being in the 10th, with the MC. With your Placidus chart, that Sun is in 9th. The Sun joys in the 9th, I believe. You asked if Venus there helps? Short answer is yes, it does.

I'll leave off saying anything else, in case traditional ideas aren't your interest. One thing to also consider though is that with our charts, the planets aren't always about us. Sometimes they represent what can happen to use because of others as well.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:09 PM
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Re: The chart manipulators!

I don't know if you are familiar with the Arabic Parts, but I am recently studying it.
I just discovered that my Part of succes is also Venus - related: in Libra 11 degrees, conjunct Moon! Woohoo!

So the NN is harder to live with than a Libra South Node, because Aries rules the eight house?

It's true about the counseling part, I'm a student Psychology, but becoming counselor is not my main goal in life. Recognition and success with my creative abilities is more where I dream about, especially as a writer, painter,photographer,... Still don't know where the focus will be
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:31 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

Well, you have Mars-Neptune in your 5th house (creativity), with Mars trining your MC. (And Mars rules your Aries North Node.) Also, Jupiter (ruling your 5th house) sextiles your MC. All of that looks good for your goals. Venus in the 10th can also indicate a business focused on artistic endeavors.

Looking at your outer planets, you're pretty young, and maybe the various parts of your chart just haven't quite coalesced yet. Give it time!
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:32 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: The chart manipulators!

You're just starting out? You do quite well!
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