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  #26  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:31 AM
preeshuu preeshuu is offline
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Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Number of planets between Venus and MC in male chart shows the number of spouses.
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
(If Mars happens to be on MC then you take Jupiter instead of Mars).

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  #27  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:04 AM
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Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

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hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds
Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:48 AM
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Re: Timing of Marriage Example

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  #29  
Old 07-03-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.
Tom Cruise's chart shows that he would only have no marriages (his Venus is in the 10th house), but yet he has had three marriages so far? Or am I interpreting his chart (below) wrong?

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  #30  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:45 PM
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Re: Timing of Marriage Example

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Bonatti:


Look at the Brad Pit's chart in the post above.
His Almuten of Marriage is Mars.
Venus is Oriental.
Moon is in the 1st Quarter = Oriental.

Brad Pit married Jennifer Aniston in 29 July 2000 when he was 36 years old.

and if she and the lords are occidental and are between the AC and IC or between DC and MC, or in the 2nd quarter of the Moon or in the last (occidental quarters), it signifies that the marriage of the natus is a little postponed and he will marry a little older woman in older years and he will be unfortunate because of women.

Venus and all the planets (except Jupiter) are in AC-IC quarter, Mars (Almuten of Marriage and triplicity lord of Venus and Moon) is occidental. Jennifer was 31 when she married Brad. 31 is really high number of years for a medieval society and they would not classified Jennifer as a girl but as a woman instead.
In one interview Brad said that the years with Jennifer were the hardest years of his life.

In the profected year of December 1999 Sag was the Profected Asc of Brad Pit's chart. This is the same as of the natal chart. In these years the promised in the natal chart is most likely that it should be fulfilled.

Jolie and Brad engaged officially on 12 April 2012 after 7 years of living together.
And this is again year in which the profected Ascendant is on the natal position.
Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?
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  #31  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:52 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

This guy Omni never came back
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  #32  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
Erickaf Erickaf is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

where did he go?
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  #33  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:07 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

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where did he go?
Cyberspace - posting on other forums most likely - why not send an email?
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  #34  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:57 AM
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Re: Timing of Marriage Example

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Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?
Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting

Last edited by Omnisphericus; 10-07-2012 at 02:00 AM.
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  #35  
Old 10-07-2012, 07:53 PM
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Re: Timing of Marriage Example

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Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting
Thank you for these detailed explanations Omnisphericus, your work is much appreciated - particularly since medieval methods can be complex to fathom
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2012, 07:20 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

I have deleted a number of responses that have gone off topic. If a member has an issue with another, the forum is not the appropriate venue to vent. Please hit the alarm feature so a moderator is made aware of any problems and can then decide appropriate action.

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  #37  
Old 11-23-2012, 04:05 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
In Women's chart the Sun is of great importance.

According to Ptolemy we seek to find the Sun in the two Oriental Quadrants: from AC to MC, and from DC to IC, because this signifies that the woman will be married in her youth and that she will take young man in her older years, but not an older husband.

But when the Sun is in the Occidental quadrants (from AC to IC, and from DC to MC), then her marriage is delayed or in youth she will take older man.

If the Sun is from the beginning of Aries till the middle of Taurus,
or from the middle of Leo all the way to the end of Virgo,
or from the beginning of Libra all the way to the middle of Scorpio,
or from the middle of Aquarius till the end of Pisces, and the significator (In women's chart this is the Lord or Almuten of the 7th house) is Occidental, she will marry in old age or with older man.

If the significator is under the Sun's beams, it signifies that she has no marriage.
If the Sun is in fixed sign signifies that she will be married to one man only.
But if in that sign there is Oriental planet, you will judge that the man will be young or that she will marry another one after that.
If the planet is Occidental, then he will be older.

If the Sun is in mutable sign she will have two husbands.
If the Sun is in cardinal sign she will have many men.

what does this theory says about my chart?
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:49 AM
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Re: Number of Marriages according to Dorotheus

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Number of planets between Venus and MC in male chart shows the number of spouses.
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
(If Mars happens to be on MC then you take Jupiter instead of Mars).

Is this correct?

Pls check my chart and tell me the number of marriages I will have

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=3915
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  #39  
Old 01-01-2015, 02:18 PM
Abby83 Abby83 is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

I don't know if anyone is till looking at this thread but...

I calculated mercury to be my almuten of marriage. It has good aspects in my chart. So that would mean a good marriage? I have one planet between mars and mc indicating one husband? But my sun is oriental in a cardinal sign meaning many lovers and one younger partner when im older, is that correct?
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  #40  
Old 01-01-2015, 03:03 PM
Arena Arena is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Abby83 and others in here

I've been through what is said here by traditional method of delinating marriages or relationships. I am now 42 yrs old and have had many men - and a few longer term relationships. I would consider two men of those to be my husbands. One of them I married when I was 25 and the other one I am with now for 8 yrs and we have children and are in registered relationship. My first husband was same age that I am and my current partner is 10 yrs younger than me.

This could fit with my sidereal chart, but not my tropical chart by what has been said in here.

By sidereal chart my Sun is in Cancer, a cardinal sign (many men).
By tropical chart my Sun would be in Leo, fixed (one man).

Sun has Mercury and Mars in same sign, following (rising after the Sun) so occidental.

Looking into this statement:
Quote:
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
I would guess we look at the shorter distance between Mars and MC and we count ONLY the traditional 7 planets? Since this is a traditional method.

That would mean I should have only ONE man, since Jupiter is the only traditional planet between Mars and MC. But if counting the outers, there would be more.

But what I do not understand is why we use the Sun - but then count planets between MARS and MC - why not from Sun to MC?

If I count from Sun to MC, that would be 3 planets.
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  #41  
Old 01-01-2015, 04:07 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Arena remember that the methods, while accurate, are not "exact". And every chart is a bit different.

Also remember that these methods need to be updated to apply to our modern society. For example, bonatti lived in medieval Europe (13th century):

- Getting married "young" was getting married at age 13-17, for both male and female (although particularly for females). Getting married "old" could be considered from ages 25-30, and something like that.

- There was no divorce or breaking up in those times. A marriage was over when one of the spouses died. And in those time's with no proper medicine, simple complications could take someone's life, and people did die much younger, or for simpler causes than today.

So according to Bonatti's method someone could, perhaps, have like 4 husbands in their natal chart. Yet since, it is more likely that these "husbands" will be alive, its also likely those relationships will endure much longer.

Of course I am NOT talking about your particular case, just mentioning there are some stuff we need to take into consideration, so we can understand that the method, while extremely good, is not 100% accurate, because "marriage" in the traditional sense is not the same now (neither is age, life, work, etc).


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  #42  
Old 01-01-2015, 04:25 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Yes very true Dirius.

But if the methods work, they will also produce answers for us in today's world. So the ancients view or astrological meanings will still be similar for cardinal sign (active, on the go, ever changing), fixed (stable and likely to stay very very long in relationships - or at least longer than the other) and mutable (having more than one partner at the same time even, need for variety).

We must admit, that although the world has indeed changed - there are still some people in today's world that stay with the same spouse all their life. Sound like a fixed energy. There are still others that are ever changing and active in this area, much more so than others (cardinal) and there are still those who cheat on their spouses (mutable energy).

In my case, it is most clear that sidereal does fit better with this view than does tropical. Although I must state that Venus in my case is in Gemini and Jupiter is in Sagi in both systems. But both Sun and Moon and ASC change., Sun in cardinal Cancer instead of fixed Leo and Moon in cardinal Aries instead of fixed Taurus (that should also give long lasting relationships).

In both charts my Sun is oriental, so this statement describes my life well since in my "older years" I've taken a man much younger than myself.
Quote:
According to Ptolemy we seek to find the Sun in the two Oriental Quadrants: from AC to MC, and from DC to IC, because this signifies that the woman will be married in her youth and that she will take young man in her older years, but not an older husband.
I'm just pointing out the fact that by these methods it seems to fit much better with the sidereal chart than tropical. I had my first relationship from young age, 16-19 ... then next one from 21-23 ... then from 23-29 (married) ... then a shorter one at 31 and the current one from 34-42 ... and in between a few others. Does not sound like the fixed Sun Leo-Moon Taurus relationships to me

IF we add to this picture some of the astrological "truths" about the ruler of 7th - since it must also play a big role in all this picture. Makes much more sense in sidereal for me as well. Would be Jupiter, placed in 7th Sagi.
If taking tropical it would be Capi Saturn, placed in 12th. Makes no sense at all with this history of relationships/love matters. Capricorn in 7th has the usual meaning of having a much older spouse (I've not had any relationship at all having a much older partner... they are usually same age, or younger). Capricorn in 7th can also mean wanting a marriage that secures you financially, being attracted to stability. Well, that has never been the case for me Just saying, it has indeed been really worthwhile to look into and study my sidereal chart to make the comparison. It makes much more sense in all astrological sense.

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  #43  
Old 01-01-2015, 05:15 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Of course, I was merely talking about some concepts.

So I agree the method works wells.



Anyways, having the marriage significators in "fixed" signs doesn't imply healthy long well established relationships. Nor does, having for example capricorn as ruler of the 7th imply and "older" person or a "secure" marriage.

Those defitinions of the planets as people work in some specific situations, but shouldn't be taken as literal descriptions. It is usually a combination of the 7th lord + venus + moon + the signs they fall in, that they "sort" of give a description. But to be honest, since so many factors are involded is always reaaaaally hard to get it right.

Remember also that this particular method was Bonatti's...and there are other authos that, while having similar methods, vary a bit. It is also helpfull to know bonatti, for example, use Porphyry house system and tropical zodiac. So it can vary depending on the chart.
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  #44  
Old 01-01-2015, 05:21 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

lol in my chart lol sun is void no application to anything and its in fixed sign
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Old 01-01-2015, 05:24 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

I guess it is appropriate to also look into my partner's chart for this method.

By sidereal chart his Venus is in fixed Leo and oriental quarter and there is only one planet between Venus and MC, the Moon. This certainly fits much better with his love life story than does a tropical Venus in mutable Virgo. He only had one girlfriend before me, that was in his teenage years - and no other lovers. So I am his only real long term relationship.

My ex husband's chart shows his Venus in occidental quarter if the birth time is right and there are three planets between it and MC, counting either way. He married me, then we divorced and he had a baby with one woman - did not marry her or have a relationship with her (but she probably does count as one of those planets since they have a child together and therefore are in touch with each other all their lives) and now he has his third woman with whom he has had 3 children with and has stayed with for long term. Sidereal chart shows his Venus in cardinal Aries and tropical chart shows his Venus in fixed Taurus. He is more of a Venus in Aries type, had quite a few lovers and obviously more than one "marriage".
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:16 PM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

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I guess it is appropriate to also look into my partner's chart for this method.

By sidereal chart his Venus is in fixed Leo and oriental quarter and there is only one planet between Venus and MC, the Moon. This certainly fits much better with his love life story than does a tropical Venus in mutable Virgo. He only had one girlfriend before me, that was in his teenage years - and no other lovers. So I am his only real long term relationship.

My ex husband's chart shows his Venus in occidental quarter if the birth time is right and there are three planets between it and MC, counting either way. He married me, then we divorced and he had a baby with one woman - did not marry her or have a relationship with her (but she probably does count as one of those planets since they have a child together and therefore are in touch with each other all their lives) and now he has his third woman with whom he has had 3 children with and has stayed with for long term. Sidereal chart shows his Venus in cardinal Aries and tropical chart shows his Venus in fixed Taurus. He is more of a Venus in Aries type, had quite a few lovers and obviously more than one "marriage".
Omnisphericus posted a brief summary of the technique for delineating Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

This is very intriguing subject isn't it?

Well, I must mention in the very beginning in explaining the methods here that they are of medieval astrology type (Bonatti, Abu Ali, Al Khayat and etc.).
To say that the method is 'Traiditional' is really using very wide range of time span in which different techniques for delineating marriage were used.
For example, the Hellenistic Astrologer's (Valens, Dorotheus and etc.) have used methods on their own, methods which I'll probably (not even later) not explain on this thread, but we can open another thread for that matter.
As this section of Traditional Astrology is quite new and in its beginnings, we now trow out the techniques here and there and title them as "Traditional". I hope that in the future we can make sub sections of traditional astrology, such as: "Medieval Astrology", "Hellenistic Astrology", Renaissance Astrology" and etc..

There are certain rules in Medieval Astrology compiled
which can give quite good and workable methods for delineating marriage.
The rules one can learn for a short period of time,
but the practice is what is needed
in order these rules to become second nature of the astrologer's intuitive tool in delineating such things as Marriage in the chart.
This is what I would like to do on this thread:
to practice as much charts as I/we will have the time to do it.



The Technique

The Compound Almuten is what is very practical thing in almost all methods used in medieval delineation. It seems that Bonatti and other medievals were very fond on Compound Almutens.
I will first give delineation for male charts, and in some later post will explain the delineation for female charts.

Finding the Compound Almuten for Marriage:

Find the Rulers of all 5 dignities for these places:

1. 7th house cusp

2. Lord of the 7th house

3. Planets in 7th house (if any)

4. Moon

5. Venus

6. Part of Marriage (According to Hermes) (ASC + VE - SA) for Men.

The Planet which gets most points over these places is Almuten of Marriage.
But consider also if there are impediments to these places.
If there is affliction to 7th house (by some Malefic's square or opposition), to the Moon (aspect, combust, cadent, retrograde and etc.)

See if one of the individiaul Almutens over these places is joined to the Lord of the Ascendant or its Almuten or the Lord of the 7th or its Almuten.
If they are in trine or sextile, and if especially in reception, then the native will rejoice in living beautiful life with his wife according to his desire.

But if the aspects were without reception, or if the aspects were square or opposition, then the significations will be judged lower.

Bonatti:



Example:


This is the chart of Akihito, Emperor of Japan

His chart is given on astrodatabank site as a chart of a man with successful marriage.

First we make Compound Almuten for these places:

1. 7th House Cusp at 28 Gemini:
Mercury 5, 3,
Saturn 3, 2
Jupiter 3
Sun 1

2. Ruler of 7th, Mercury in 16 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3
Venus 2
Moon 1

3. Planets in 7th - there are no planets here

4. Moon 20 Pisces
Jupiter 5
Venus 4, 3
Mars, 3, 2, 1
Moon 3

5. Venus 15 Aquarius
Saturn 5, 3
Mercury, 3, 1
Jupiter 3, 2

6 Part of Marriage at 29 Sag
Jupiter 5, 3
Sun 3
Saturn 3, 1
Mars 2

Total:
Mercury 12
Saturn 20
Jupiter 29

No need to calculate further, Jupiter is Almuten of Marriage.
Look how strong is that Jupiter up there on MC.
He is receiving the Sun by sextile and the Part of Marriage on the Ascendant.

7th house cusp not impeded.
Its lord - Mercury, cadent (but in the first sign), not afflicted by Malefic's square or opposition, not by combustion.
Moon - not afflicted.
Venus - Saturn receives here in Aquarius.
Part of Marriage not afflicted, but indeed highlightened by ASC and Sun.

Lord (and also Almuten) of the 1st, and the Lord (and also Almuten) of the 7th are in Sextile. Jupiter receives Mercury.

Quite fortunate chart for marriage.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let your food be your medicine: let your medicine be your food. Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY red cabbage sliced Equatorially illustrates the Golden Mean Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Arena Arena is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Well, the use of tropical vs sidereal in ancient times seems vague ... f.ex. it seems like Valens used sidereal for measurement of zodiac even though many believe that he used tropical.

Do we have real proof that Bonatti did use tropical? The zodiacs were much closer in degree in 13th century than they are now, therefore less difference.

Yes, JA, I did see this method as well with the Almuten - it was just a bit too much to go through all those calculations right now

Anyways, Happy New Year to you all!
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  #48  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:01 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arena View Post

Well, the use of tropical vs sidereal in ancient times seems vague ...

f.ex. it seems like Valens used sidereal for measurement of zodiac

even though many believe that he used tropical.

Do we have real proof that Bonatti did use tropical?
The zodiacs were much closer in degree in 13th century than they are now, therefore less difference.

Yes, JA, I did see this method as well with the Almuten - it was just a bit too much to go through all those calculations right now

Anyways, Happy New Year to you all!

Thanks Arena and Happy New Year to all as well
Perhaps 2015 is a year when we shall find more answers to this 'enigma'


After two thousand years have passed
techniques that have been translated from one ancient language to another
before being then translated into modern English
require dedicated study and there are those who are keen to do these studies
some discussion at
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let your food be your medicine: let your medicine be your food. Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY red cabbage sliced Equatorially illustrates the Golden Mean Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:36 AM
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Dirius Dirius is offline
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arena View Post

Do we have real proof that Bonatti did use tropical? The zodiacs were much closer in degree in 13th century than they are now, therefore less difference.
We really shouldn't get into this discussion (given this is a marriage thread), so perhaps we can create a new topic regarding sidereal vs tropical zodiac? I really don't want to derail the thread from its original topic, but I want to answer arena regarding bonatti using tropical.

But I will mention:

We do have proof that Bonatti used the tropical zodiac:

From Liber Astronomiae, Second Tractate Part 1:

Quote:
I shall speak therefore, following in the footsteps of our venerable predecessors, of things which are useful in this work, remembering their opinions, namely those of Ptolemy, Hermes, Iaphar, Thebit, Alchabitius, Alcaiat, Alchindi, Alenzedegoz, Messala, Adila, Iergis, Albenait, Aardimon, Arestali, and others who studied in this science.
Quote:
and a few paragrapths later he says:

It has been said in the preceding chapter why the signs were ordered the way they are. In this chapter it must be declared why the enumeration begins from Aries and not from some other one of the signs, since the heaven is spherical body and every sphere lacks a beginning. And since it lacks a beginning, it also lacks and end; and since it lacks a beginning and an end, it lacks a middle point which is excluded in corporeal substance. The enumeration of the signs began with Aries because the circle of the signs intersects the circle of the equator at the beginning of Aries and at the point opposite to it, not at a right angle but obliquely. Thus, six signs are northern and six southern, as is discussed more broadly elsewhere. The part which is norther is stronger than that which is southern, because when the Sun leaves Pisces, it enters Aries, and Aries is the first sign of the northern part.

Another reason why the enumeration of the signs began from Aries, is because when the Sun enters Aries, the days begin to become longer than the nights; whence, since increse is a noble thing, the wise of this art were agreed that the enumeration of the signs ought to begin with the one in which the increase begins.
Here he talks about the Spring equinox. In "sidereal" astrology, Aries won't always be the spring equinox. Besides most of the authors he mentions in the first paragraph are Tropical users. So bonatti did use tropical zodiac. I would like to know where the idea of Vallens using sidereal comes from, if we might continue this on another thread?
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Last edited by Dirius; 01-02-2015 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:27 AM
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Re: Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
We really shouldn't get into this discussion (given this is a marriage thread), so perhaps we can create a new topic regarding sidereal vs tropical zodiac?
There are many already here on the forum. One only has to search to find them.

Arena, while the method outlined by Omni is good, it is not thorough. This is why learning traditional astrology cannot happen on the internet alone. There was a time early in my study when I thought perhaps sidereal worked better with my chart as well. I've since learned more about the techniques, and, well, grown. That doesn't mean I don't still find sidereal valid (and I do believe that Valens was using the tropical zodiac as well...I am looking for a reference for verification...) and for certain Martin Gansten is a traditional astrologer who has had great success using traditional methods in the sidereal zodiac.

http://www.martingansten.com/

Abby, you said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post
I calculated mercury to be my almuten of marriage. It has good aspects in my chart. So that would mean a good marriage?
You would need to define "good aspects" and then also take a peek at sect/domain and house position. Is the almuten of marriage impeded in anyway? How about the lord/lady of the 7th directly? Can that planet (or the almuten) regard the 7th? If not, does it give or receive testimony from a planet who can? If so, which and how? And then there is the reality that while the chart may show something, life can get in the way. This is why pinpointing times of marriage, for example, requires more than just a natal chart. We have derivative charts for a reason.
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