Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)

[preeshuu]

hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus

Number of planets between Venus and MC in male chart shows the number of spouses.
Number of planets between Mars and MC in female chart shows number of husbands.
(If Mars happens to be on MC then you take Jupiter instead of Mars).

[Omnisphericus]

Originally Posted by preeshuu

hi ,

so for males its Venus and for females mars or sun ?

rgds

Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.

[Erickaf]

..................................

[Zuri]

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus

Well, in my experience it is as follows.
If Venus in male chart is in the IC-AC-MC Section, than you count number of planets between Venus and MC in counter-clockwise motion of the Zodiac.
If Venus is in IC-DC-MC Section, you count number of planets between Venus and MC in the Zodiacal order of the planets.

In female chart you take Sun instead of Venus.
But Dorotheus suggest to look at Mars, or in Jupiter.
Some further experimentation need to be done in this field.

Tom Cruise's chart shows that he would only have no marriages (his Venus is in the 10th house), but yet he has had three marriages so far? Or am I interpreting his chart (below) wrong?

[Erickaf]

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus

Bonatti:


Look at the Brad Pit's chart in the post above.
His Almuten of Marriage is Mars.
Venus is Oriental.
Moon is in the 1st Quarter = Oriental.

Brad Pit married Jennifer Aniston in 29 July 2000 when he was 36 years old.

and if she and the lords are occidental and are between the AC and IC or between DC and MC, or in the 2nd quarter of the Moon or in the last (occidental quarters), it signifies that the marriage of the natus is a little postponed and he will marry a little older woman in older years and he will be unfortunate because of women.

Venus and all the planets (except Jupiter) are in AC-IC quarter, Mars (Almuten of Marriage and triplicity lord of Venus and Moon) is occidental. Jennifer was 31 when she married Brad. 31 is really high number of years for a medieval society and they would not classified Jennifer as a girl but as a woman instead.
In one interview Brad said that the years with Jennifer were the hardest years of his life.

In the profected year of December 1999 Sag was the Profected Asc of Brad Pit's chart. This is the same as of the natal chart. In these years the promised in the natal chart is most likely that it should be fulfilled.

Jolie and Brad engaged officially on 12 April 2012 after 7 years of living together.
And this is again year in which the profected Ascendant is on the natal position.

Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?

[Amy]

This guy Omni never came back

[Erickaf]

where did he go?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Erickaf

where did he go?

Cyberspace - posting on other forums most likely - why not send an email?

[Omnisphericus]

Originally Posted by Erickaf

Hey I think Brad's Venus is Occidental not Oriental, or am I missing something here?

Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus

Hi.
I was going with the Robert Zoller's definition of regarding the inferiors (Mercury and Venus) as "Oriental" when they are behind the Sun (in Primary Motion) and "Occidental" when they are in front of the Sun (in Primary Motion).
He teaches this in his Diploma Course.

What is the logic behind this?
While the Superior Planets are said to be Oriental when they are living the Sun's rays (Saturn and Jupiter 15 degrees, Mars 18 degrees) and direct increasing in speed and strength in their own light they would Rise before the Sun, because they are East from the Sun or in fewer zodiacal degrees (from the right [our left] of the Sun); the inferior planets are direct and are going out of the Sun's rays when they are in the West side of the Sun, i.e. from the left [our right], or in front of the Sun (in later zodiacal degrees). It is a consideration of power. They are technically occidental because they would Rise After the Sun, i.e. will set after the Sun; but they are called "Oriental" in likeness to the power they have when they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
They are said to be vespertine when they are occidental to the Sun, and matutine when they are oriental to the Sun (in true sense). Therefore Ptolemy says that Vespertine Inferiors are better then Matutine, because they are on the side of the Sun where they are direct and going out of the Sun's beams.
Going out of the Sun's beams was kind of a strength for a planet. Ptolemy says that this brings "intensity" and Rhetorius advises us to look 7 days before and 7 days after the birth if some star (planet!) is going out of the Sun's beams or into it.
Inferiors goes under the Sun's beams when they are retrograde from the left side of the Sun, i.e. vespertine, and when they are matutine and direct.
But they go OUT of the Sun's beams (planetary strength) when they are matutine and retrograde, and when they are vespertine and direct.
So being Direct and going out of the Sun's beams was said to be the greatest strength of the planet, and because for the inferiors this happens when they are vespertine or in a technical term "occidental", hence Zoller decided to use the term "Oriental" for the inferiors when they are in fact occidental, i.e. rising after the Sun.
It is a tricky mess-up, and maybe you'll need to re-read the post more times to get the sense of it, but once you've got it, the rewards are long lasting

Thank you for these detailed explanations Omnisphericus, your work is much appreciated - particularly since medieval methods can be complex to fathom

[wintersprite1]

I have deleted a number of responses that have gone off topic. If a member has an issue with another, the forum is not the appropriate venue to vent. Please hit the alarm feature so a moderator is made aware of any problems and can then decide appropriate action.

TK

[Angels]

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus

Originally Posted by Omnisphericus
In Women's chart the Sun is of great importance.

According to Ptolemy we seek to find the Sun in the two Oriental Quadrants: from AC to MC, and from DC to IC, because this signifies that the woman will be married in her youth and that she will take young man in her older years, but not an older husband.

But when the Sun is in the Occidental quadrants (from AC to IC, and from DC to MC), then her marriage is delayed or in youth she will take older man.

If the Sun is from the beginning of Aries till the middle of Taurus,
or from the middle of Leo all the way to the end of Virgo,
or from the beginning of Libra all the way to the middle of Scorpio,
or from the middle of Aquarius till the end of Pisces, and the significator (In women's chart this is the Lord or Almuten of the 7th house) is Occidental, she will marry in old age or with older man.

If the significator is under the Sun's beams, it signifies that she has no marriage.
If the Sun is in fixed sign signifies that she will be married to one man only.
But if in that sign there is Oriental planet, you will judge that the man will be young or that she will marry another one after that.
If the planet is Occidental, then he will be older.

If the Sun is in mutable sign she will have two husbands.
If the Sun is in cardinal sign she will have many men.

what does this theory says about my chart?