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Horary Questions on Communications For questions related to phone calls, messages, SMS, emails.


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  #1  
Old 12-03-2011, 04:08 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

The horary question is "will he contact me in the next three months?"

Querent = Saturn in Libra conjunct cusp 10
Quested = Moon in Pisces in the third house 3

Is the Moon void or is the quincunx between Moon and Saturn before Moon leaves Pisces a valid aspect?

If quincunx doesn't count, the Moon is void.
The chart is not valid, a waist of time, right?

The Moon is approaching Saturn. I have read different things about the Quincunx.
• The answer to the question is NO
• The querent has a choice; if the querent makes some changes the answer could become positive.
If the Moon (the quested) approaches Saturn (the querent), in what way the querent can make changes?

Both the lords of third (Jupiter) and the ninth (Mercury) (the third ruler of the quested) houses are retrograde.
Does this mean that this isn't the right time for some kind of contact, but things will change drastically in three months?

These lords are not aspecting each other, although the third ruler of the quested is in reception with the third ruler of querent. Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius. It is also combusted by the Sun.
Conclusion: the querent wants to make it happen (Jupiter receives Mercury - and the ruler of the quested is in his third house), but the quested does not (Mercury doesn't feel at home in Sagittarius and is overpowered by the Sun). Right?

I hope some one can help by answering my questions.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:28 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

I've found out that a quincunx is not a Ptolemaic aspect. So we don't use it in horary astrology, do we?

In this case, Moon, Significator of the question, is V.O.C., meaning nothing will happen.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:31 AM
Anachiel Anachiel is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Traditionally, only the Ptolemaic aspects are considered. A Quincunx would not be useful here, traditionally.

Also, the Moon is not really void. First, it has an aspect, a sextile, to Fortuna. Also, the horary is still readable as the Moon functions, somewhat, in Pisces, even if void.

So, right off the chart is saying, 'look carefully, all is not as it appears'. There are things to be considered before just diving in and reading the chart as one would normally do.

The fact the the Moon is sextile Fortuna and Jupiter is retrograde at 1 degree is interesting. The Moon is is a powerful mutual reception with Jupiter as well. Saturn is also heading to a oppositiom to Fortuna. It appears that there will be future contact because Fortuna becomes, symbolically, a meeting place for all of the significators, and then some!

There is probably some third, possibly inanimate, party that brought them together, like a message machine or text or mail/letter or document. I don't know if the matter will stay good between them but, to directly answer the question I would say, "yes" contact would be made (but perhaps just slightly longer than 3 months).

Bona Fortuna,

Anachiel
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:14 AM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post
The horary question is "will he contact me in the next three months?"
Querent = Saturn in Libra conjunct cusp 10
Quested = Moon in Pisces in the third house 3
Is the Moon void or is the quincunx between Moon and Saturn before Moon leaves Pisces a valid aspect?
If quincunx doesn't count, the Moon is void.
The chart is not valid, a waist of time, right?
The Moon is approaching Saturn. I have read different things about the Quincunx.
• The answer to the question is NO
• The querent has a choice; if the querent makes some changes the answer could become positive.
If the Moon (the quested) approaches Saturn (the querent), in what way the querent can make changes?
Both the lords of third (Jupiter) and the ninth (Mercury) (the third ruler of the quested) houses are retrograde.
Does this mean that this isn't the right time for some kind of contact, but things will change drastically in three months?

These lords are not aspecting each other, although the third ruler of the quested is in reception with the third ruler of querent. Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius. It is also combusted by the Sun.
Conclusion: the querent wants to make it happen (Jupiter receives Mercury - and the ruler of the quested is in his third house), but the quested does not (Mercury doesn't feel at home in Sagittarius and is overpowered by the Sun). Right?
I hope some one can help by answering my questions.
Hi - Here's another perspective but first, you're right, the only aspects considered in Horaries are the sextile, trine, square and opposition (the conjunction is not considered an aspect so much as a 'bodily contact') - so the aspect between Moon and Saturn in this chart indicates a non-event. The explanation given in the traditional and ancient writings is that the two planets are unable to "see" each other from these points and are therefore disinterested in each other - or that something or other is 'blocking' them from contact.

Here, we have 1 ruler Saturn and 7 ruler Moon making no aspect, so there is no action.
There is no reception between them either, to suggest (perhaps) an inclination.

General signifier of communication is Mercury who is combust and Rx. The aspect between Mercury and Saturn is too wide to consider - besides, Mercury will go direct and change direction before then.

Also, Mercury is in Sag where he is in his Detriment so he is in no condition to act - or to make contact.

So, sorry, but given all these negative testimonies, I would have to say that I doubt very much if there'll be any communication. ________
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:02 AM
R.J. R.J. is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post
The horary question is "will he contact me in the next three months?"

Querent = Saturn in Libra conjunct cusp 10
Quested = Moon in Pisces in the third house 3

Is the Moon void or is the quincunx between Moon and Saturn before Moon leaves Pisces a valid aspect?

If quincunx doesn't count, the Moon is void.
The chart is not valid, a waist of time, right?

The Moon is approaching Saturn. I have read different things about the Quincunx.
• The answer to the question is NO
• The querent has a choice; if the querent makes some changes the answer could become positive.
If the Moon (the quested) approaches Saturn (the querent), in what way the querent can make changes?

Both the lords of third (Jupiter) and the ninth (Mercury) (the third ruler of the quested) houses are retrograde.
Does this mean that this isn't the right time for some kind of contact, but things will change drastically in three months?

These lords are not aspecting each other, although the third ruler of the quested is in reception with the third ruler of querent. Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius. It is also combusted by the Sun.
Conclusion: the querent wants to make it happen (Jupiter receives Mercury - and the ruler of the quested is in his third house), but the quested does not (Mercury doesn't feel at home in Sagittarius and is overpowered by the Sun). Right?

I hope some one can help by answering my questions.

Hello Ms. Anna:

Good evening to you.

Okay, I will try to give you, the newcomer to horary astrology, the straight and honest 'goods' about the inconjunction (or 150 degree aspect) in horary astrology and also, how to apply it in your own chart.

I have been doing professional horary charts for some 35 years and, not to blow my own horn, I have clients around the world who have recognized my own superior horary skills...

That said, the main reason why we do analysis at ALL, is to PLEASE or SERVE the client...The astrologer is certainly NOT the star of the show, but the querent always IS ! Would you agree ? (Many astrologers have it #ss backwards, in my opinion...when it comes to customer service !)

Meanwhile, you, the querant, should have the right to make up your OWN mind as to how this 150 degree aspect figures into the equation. The reason ?

A teacher of astrology (even an expert for that matter), must ALWAYS be a GUIDE, not a 'guard' or a 'dictator ?' The teacher is merely a guide, a boat or vessel or a method of conveyance.... that takes you from one part of the lake or ocean to another...

After you have reached shore, the boat is not discarded, but hoisted on your shoulders much like the courier de bois did, (the 'runners of the woods') who explored this great, vast, North American countryside...The journey of astrology is therefore, relentless, and carries on, by land, mountain, or even by air...even if we, ourselves, lose faith in horary technology ?

Essentially, most of the rules of today's horary astrology were invented by ONE man; William Lilly, whom I also have a good deal of respect for.

The main problem is that William Lilly has been deceased now for over 600 years and, the world has changed greatly since the days of Lilly. Several new planets have since been discovered since the 15th century and several important new discoveries and inventions have been made, including viruses and epidemics like AIDS and also, the airplane. These new inventions and conditions cannot be represented by the old planets; sorry, they just CAN'T !

In 1972, a prominent American horary astrologer named Barbara Watters decided to add to Lily's horary rules, not to replace them. but simply augment them ! Watters, being as good as she was, could have re-invented the wheel and tossed everything by Lilly into the garbage can. Instead, history shows that she KEPT many of Lily's precepts and simply added to them. (This includes historians like Lee Lehman, a former professor at Kepler College).

For example, Watters determined (from her own research) that the trans-Saturnian planets (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) COULD be applied to horary type situations, without undue penalty to the querent and also, because it is practical to do so ?

The outer-planets, reasoned Miss Watters, represent worldly circumstances BEYOND the control of the querent, or societal conditions, that have a tangible impact on the question being asked.

For example, if you are asking a question about investments in precious metals or commodities, and the global market changes or the government decides to restrict currency trading or the buying of certain metals, then those changes cannot be deduced from the traditional planets, alone.

Miss Watters has given numerous, numerous references to the outer planets and how they can work properly. She is deceased now, but go and google her and lots of stuff will still come up...

I have also been using the outer planets in my own horary practice and and believe ME, they often make a huge difference in the final outcome of these charts !

Miss Watters also was a MAJOR proponent of the 150 degree aspect, along with the use of the Placidus system of house division, (as opposed to Lily's Regiomontanus house system).

In the almost 40 years since her book first came out (Horary Astrology and the Judgement of Events), her revamped techniques have been used by astrologers all over the world, and with great results. She also gives many examples of her new techniques in that same book.

The quincunx or 150 degree aspect (according to Barbara Watters) is frequently an aspect of fatalism, especially involved in horary questions re: transportation, airplane travel, car, or boating accidents.

The inconjunction is also an aspect that denotes an event with negative consequences for which the querent usually has little or no control or say over the matter.

To answer your own question. The Moon in Pisces (ruler of HIM, the other partner) is making an inconjunction to Saturn in LIbra, the signficator of your 1st house. Therefore, the Moon, here is still valid and is NOT void of course !

The interpretation would be as follows: since the radix. Moon is applying to radix Saturn in Libra the 10th house, by inconjunction, any communication contact between you is likely to be delayed, since Saturn rules delays...

Meanwhile, since Saturn is angular and Moon is in a cadent house, ths desire for communication is more important to YOU than to HIM ! Would you agree?

Unfortunately, the Moon in Pisces (a mutable sign) is also found in the turned 9th house (a cadent house), which is the SLOWEST of ALL combinations, in terms of speed...

Therefore, I predict that you will eventually communicate with him, but perhaps outside of the 3 month time frame that you asked about ! Maybe in 2 months ?

The delay might well be because: a) of your heavy work schedule at this time. (Saturn conjunct the radix MC), combined with b) his stressful travel or school schedule (Moon in turned 9th house).



good luck to you,



R.J. Smith

Last edited by R.J.; 12-04-2011 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:11 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Also, the Moon is not really void. First, it has an aspect, a sextile, to Fortuna. Also, the horary is still readable as the Moon functions, somewhat, in Pisces, even if void.
Thanks for your explanation, I noticed Fortuna, but didn't know what to think of it. I will search for information about Fortuna in Horary.

Looking at the chart, I don't think the Moon is sextiling Fortuna.
Moon is at 23˚45 Pisces and Fortuna is at 29˚45 Aries.

Moon is still not Void, because of her placement in Pisces?
(Sorry, horary is more complicated than I thought it was :-( )


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
The fact the Moon is sextile Fortuna and Jupiter is retrograde at 1 degree is interesting. The Moon is is a powerful mutual reception with Jupiter as well. Saturn is also heading to a opposition to Fortuna. It appears that there will be future contact because Fortuna becomes, symbolically, a meeting place for all of the significators, and then some!
Supposing Moon was sextiling Fortuna, I agree that this would be an interesting situation.
Could the placement of Fortuna tell us more about the meeting point?
Like Fortuna in Taurus in House 4: probably somewhere in a beautiful house?
or Fortuna in Taurus in House 10: probably somewhere in a fashion business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
There is probably some third, possibly inanimate, party that brought them together, like a message machine or text or mail/letter or document.
Do you refer to 'a message machine or text or mail/letter or document' because of Jupiter being lord of the third house?
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:23 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius358 View Post
The explanation given in the traditional and ancient writings is that the two planets are unable to "see" each other from these points and are therefore disinterested in each other - or that something or other is 'blocking' them from contact.
Thanks for your comment!
Just a general question: is it too simplistic to say that the querent and the quested are not in interested if there is no connection between the rulers?
There could also be a third party or something else that is blocking them?

I thought one could only say that something/third party is in the way if another planet is making an aspect before the rulers do?
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:23 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Good morning R.J. Smith,

Thanks for your comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
That said, the main reason why we do analysis at ALL, is to PLEASE or SERVE the client...The astrologer is certainly NOT the star of the show, but the querent always IS ! Would you agree ?
I certainly do. I believe this goes for all people working in the service sector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
Meanwhile, you, the querant, should have the right to make up your OWN mind as to how this 150 degree aspect figures into the equation.
I think I do.
But before I make up my own mind I have to understand how traditional horary works.
I am schooled in modern (evolutionary) astrology, using Koch Houses. I know how to analyze a horary in a 'modern' way. A couple of months ago I just got curious in analyzing horary in the traditional way. That's why I joined this forum. I am very happy with all the help and suggestions. I would like to stay open minded. At this point, I would like to understand the "Lilly"-way
I have never paid any attention to quincunxes before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
even if we, ourselves, lose faith in horary technology?
I think the main reason why people would lose faith in horaries or in Astrology in general is that they mix up several methods without knowing what they are actually doing (sorry, that's my Cappy third house Mercury talking ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
These new inventions and conditions cannot be represented by the old planets; sorry, they just CAN'T !
I have no opinion about that for this moment. Maybe if I know more about traditional horary, I could discuss this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
Miss Watters has given numerous, numerous references to the outer planets and how they can work properly. She is deceased now, but go and google her and lots of stuff will still come up...
That would be a nice subject when I done studying Lilly's theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
I have also been using the outer planets in my own horary practice and and believe ME, they often make a huge difference in the final outcome of these charts !
Analyzing horaries in the modern way, I do too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
The quincunx or 150 degree aspect (according to Barbara Watters) is frequently an aspect of fatalism, especially involved in horary questions re: transportation, airplane travel, car, or boating accidents.
The inconjunction is also an aspect that denotes an event with negative consequences for which the querent usually has little or no control or say over the matter.
We will see what happens in three months or more. I will give an update as soon anything happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
Meanwhile, since Saturn is angular and Moon is in a cadent house, ths desire for communication is more important to YOU than to HIM ! Would you agree?
I do.
I have to confess I asked the question merely to understand how horary works. Friends, mutual contacts, told me that they will leave the island within 3 months. That's when I thought of this question. When these people are gone I don't expect the quested, who lives abroad, to continue doing business on the island and I don't think the quested will gain anything by doing business with me. There are bigger fish to catch
The 3 months time frame makes it easy to check the answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
combined with b) his stressful travel or school schedule (Moon in turned 9th house).
That would make sense. Living on an island always delays communications Although internet made life a lot easier, it is not always easy to communicate thru e-mail etc.
Since 'I am' Saturn, I won't contact the quested...
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:00 PM
R.J. R.J. is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post

I have to confess I asked the question merely to understand how horary works. Friends, mutual contacts, told me that they will leave the island within 3 months. That's when I thought of this question. When these people are gone I don't expect the quested, who lives abroad, to continue doing business on the island and I don't think the quested will gain anything by doing business with me. There are bigger fish to catch
The 3 months time frame makes it easy to check the answer.

Hello Ms. Anna:

Thanks for your responses. Your above comment is quite an admission and therefore, worthy of further comment.

What I have found is that one of the BIGGEST mistakes that most newcomers to horary astrologer make is their lack of seriousness or 'mental intent' with respect to the question asked.

We see these types of questions on bulletin boards all the time ! People asking frivilous, even stupid questions, either because they are bored, tired or have lots of 'time to kill' on their hands.

If they were to hire a professional horary astrologer, the cost of the reading would be enough to keep them away. But, the service here is FREE, so people are more inclined to ask foolish questions.

You have admitted to this board that you asked your question, not because you really wanted to reach your contact, but merely to test horary astrology out of curiosity ?

Unfortunately, that is a gross MISUSE of horary astrology. You should only ask a horary question if the question is SERIOUS, or you have a personal stake in the question asked.

Otherwise, forget it, you will often receive a stricture against judgement and according to the rules of Lilly, you DID receive a void of course Moon.

However, under the horary rules of Barbara Watters, you are still scr*wed, as the Moon inconjunct Saturn does not always reveal a 'happy' outcome, either ! LOL

I am a long time teacher of horary astrology and I try to teach the concept of mens rea and actus rea to my own students.

Essentially, mens rea is a latin expression, meaning mental intent, i.e. does the client have the proper mental attitude or seriousness to ask the question at all ?

And actus rea, does the client have the physical means to carry out the 'dirty deed' ? LOL

For example, say you are asking about a career or employment in fashion design, will I be successful, ? But you, the client happens to be calling from jail or prison !

Well, then, the question is moot, and the career will likely not happen, since the client is incarcerated...Curiously, the horary chart reflects the current situation very well, but still, some people come to horary astrology under a false pretence !

Therefore, as horary astrologers, part of our job is seperate the 'wheat from the chafe' and to find out... who is a legitimate client and who is essentially wasting our time ?


best regards,



R.J. Smith

Last edited by R.J.; 12-04-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:38 AM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
If they were to hire a professional horary astrologer, the cost of the reading would be enough to keep them away. But, the service here is FREE, so people are more inclined to ask foolish questions.

You have admitted to this board that you asked your question, not because you really wanted to reach your contact, but merely to test horary astrology out of curiosity?
My question was sincere.
I don't want to reach this contact. The question was if he will contact me.
Your answer "this desire for communication is more important to YOU than to HIM!" made it clear: I am trying to hold on to something. Ruler of 7, Void Moon in Pisces, I think it is better to let go.

Lately almost all people that I consider to be my spiritual family - who helped me to become a successful creative business person - are moving away. Although I don't like to say farewell to some, I know they are 'ready' but some I just can't let go, because I don't think we are somehow finished.
With my North Node in Aquarius in House 4, I know that being a creative business person isn't my true purpose in life. At this moment, things are changing so rapidly around me. For a control freak like me, it is too much, I am scared.
Maybe that is the main reason why I am interested in horaries.
Besides that I want to understand all things that are happening, I am also exploring with North Node in Aquarius if Astrology is more fitting for me.
If these are 'wrong reasons', please tell me so.

Back to the question of this thread:
Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Your are right that was a stupid question. My biggest mistake was that I didn't read the thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12782
more carefully, because I would have known the answer.

Aquarius358, R.J. Smith and Anachiel, I am very thankful for your time and effort to help me answering and to learn me more about horary.
I will post if something happens (or not).
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:05 PM
R.J. R.J. is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post
My question was sincere.
I don't want to reach this contact. The question was if he will contact me.
Your answer "this desire for communication is more important to YOU than to HIM!" made it clear: I am trying to hold on to something. Ruler of 7, Void Moon in Pisces, I think it is better to let go.

Your intent, still seems nonchalant to me, Anna. It sounds to me that you could not care less if a contact is/was made ? So again, why is this question worthy of a horary chart...

Please remember that the weaker the intent of the querent, the more fuzzier or irrelevant the final answer will be...

I see you are really 'h*ll bent' about learning the traditional methods of William Lilly. LOL

That is fine, but as you progress with your path in astrology, I am hoping that you will become more tolerant, and less elitist, towards related disciplines.

For example, there are MANY, MANY excellent branches of horary astrology, out there, in addition to Lilly. Barbara Watter's theories is just but one. There is also Vedic (East Indian) horary, Sri Lankan horary, Chinese horary, Confucian horary (i.e. Book of Changes), etc.

Some of these systems use planets and house systems perhaps you are not even aware of. And yet, they are very, very effective systems, nonetheless...

Unfortunately, none of the above disciplines are even mentioned in Archergal's introduction section...which Archergal admits (to her credit) is only a guide for beginners and is not to be cast in stone...or even taken out of context...

all the best,


R.J. Smith
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:19 PM
R.J. R.J. is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post
My question was sincere.

Lately almost all people that I consider to be my spiritual family - who helped me to become a successful creative business person - are moving away. Although I don't like to say farewell to some, I know they are 'ready' but some I just can't let go, because I don't think we are somehow finished.
With my North Node in Aquarius in House 4, I know that being a creative business person isn't my true purpose in life. At this moment, things are changing so rapidly around me. For a control freak like me, it is too much, I am scared.
Maybe that is the main reason why I am interested in horaries.
Besides that I want to understand all things that are happening, I am also exploring with North Node in Aquarius if Astrology is more fitting for me.
If these are 'wrong reasons', please tell me so.
I think that you have valid reasons for learning horary astrology, provided that you make the time and effort to learn it properly.

As far as people being 'leaving your life' is concerned, we must remember that everything STEMS from the natal chart. Even a horary analysis must be read within the context of the birth chart.

There MUST be a corroborative natal transit (or plural 'transits') going on, explaining the coming and going of friends, associates, and contacts...

One of the major weaknesses of bulletin board astrology is that you rarely get to examine the natal chart of the querent. However, if you hire a professional astrologer, you will usually get the 'full package' that you would not get in a 'bulletin board' reading ?

If a horary chart is cast and one of your personal natal planets is 'rising' in the horary chart, (ie conjunct the radix ascendant) that is often quite telling and suggests that the question has extra significance or additional importance ?

For example, if you ask a question about a love relationship and your NATAL VENUS is found rising or in the same degree as the ascendant (give it an orb of no more than one degree) that means that the question is very serious and you cannot back away from it, easily !

In event charts, we see this all the time, where the person's personal planets are conjunct the ascendant or midheaven of the even chart.

This even includes death event charts, whereby the natal Jupiter of the deceased person is clearly prominent in the event chart for the time of death...

We do not fully understand why Jupiter is involved, but it is often found in the charts of dead people. Perhaps death (and the afterlife?) is a journey that takes us from one part of the universe to another.

In any event, death CANNOT be predicted through a horary analysis !

Did you know, though, that 'dead men' don't wear plaid ! Even the Sagittarian gals who have knives in their 'closet,' get a chuckle out of that... LOL

Good luck with your studies, dear, lest you change your mind LOL (i.e. Mercury retrograde?)


best regards,



R.J. Smith

Last edited by R.J.; 12-05-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Anachiel Anachiel is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlutonicAnna View Post
Thanks for your explanation, I noticed Fortuna, but didn't know what to think of it. I will search for information about Fortuna in Horary.
Looking at the chart, I don't think the Moon is sextiling Fortuna.
Moon is at 23˚45 Pisces and Fortuna is at 29˚45 Aries.
Moon is still not Void, because of her placement in Pisces?
(Sorry, horary is more complicated than I thought it was :-( )

Yep, good catch! Thank you. Moon is semi-sextile Fortuna. So, no, there is no aspect here. Darn.
 
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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
So, right off the chart is saying, 'look carefully, all is not as it appears'. There are things to be considered before just diving in and reading the chart as one would normally do.
So, taking my own advice into hand, I'd say this is a long shot then. I suppose Jupiter, being mutual reception with Moon, and Jupiter applying to Fortuna could effect something. But, without the Moon helping here, I just don't think so.

If it did help, you would judge the place by the sign and house Fortuna was placed.

Moon in Pisces, Taurus, Cancer or Sag; the Moon is still considered to funtion, somewhat even if void. Whereas, a void Moon in another sign, particularly Gemini, Capricorn, Scorpio, Leo, has no power, no action, there is little that can occur, there is little function to the chart or matter to fulfill it or move it.
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2011, 05:05 AM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

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Thanks for your comment!
Just a general question: is it too simplistic to say that the querent and the quested are not in interested if there is no connection between the rulers?
There could also be a third party or something else that is blocking them?

I thought one could only say that something/third party is in the way if another planet is making an aspect before the rulers do?
Hi Anna - Sorry I missed your query - no, I don't think it's too simplistic. If 1 ruler and the Moon and quesited don't aspect each other by sextile, square, trine or opposition or are not moving to conjunction, then it's fair to say they're not interested. There is lack of "concord" or "esteem" are some of the words from translations of the Arabic and Latin words used to express this.

Don't know if this is too much explanaton - but there are many words but "barring" or "blocking" are good to indicate what's normally called "prohibition" and you describe as "being in the way" - yes.

For instance, an example from Abu Ma'shar and Al Qabisi (9th/10th C) of "barring" is if Venus were at 10deg Aries, Mercury at 15deg Aries and Saturn at 20deg Aries where Mercury "bars" Venus from aspecting Saturn - but only temporarily because Mercury moves so quickly usually, and would pass over Saturn so that Venus could later move to conjunct Saturn. So if Venus were querent and Saturn quesited in this example, we could say someone/thing rep. by Mercury will intervene before perfection.

Have been looking at aspects especially as they're described in such detail by these ancient writers (from whom Lilly got all the aphorisms and rules that he used, of course! - he certainly didn't make 'em up!)

On the positive side, a third planet can be helpful if it "translates" the light; or "collects" the light; or even "reflects" the light. This is an interesting way that you can get perfection, too. Cheers.___________
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:31 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

I have been reading a lot lately about 'aversion between rulers of horary'.
And it is starting to make sense.

If planets/rulers are in aversion (a quincunx-aspect being a kind of aversion), they can't see each other and that is exactly what is going on. We (querent and quested) can't see each other, not in this horary and not in real life. There is a very big ocean between us.

The lord of House 1 (Satrun) is not only in aversion with Lord 7 (Moon), also it can not see the ruler of House 3 (Jupiter-rx in Taurus in House 4).

Lord of 7 is able to see Lord of 3, but there isn't any aspect between them.

This may explain my feelings. I can't take the initiative to contact him. I feel strongly that he has to be the one that should initiate the contact.

This is also represented by the antiscion of the combusted Mercury rx on the Ascendant. I simply can't, because I don't know what is going on. I have no clue why he broke off contact.
Maybe he only wants to have some kind of contact if he is able to see me (maybe that is what the aversion is saying?), maybe some one told him not to contact me or maybe he is upset about something I said... I just don't know.

Another thing that I noticed when I looked at the chart again is that both Saturn (lord 1) and Jupiter (lord 3) commits their disposition to Venus in Capricorn in House 12.
I have to admit, I admire this man a lot. I think he is very talented and I would really like to work with him. But that is not a simple thing to do. I think that there are many that would like to prevent that. I am ashamed to say that if there is any contact between us, it has to be a secret

Venus in the sign of Saturn (lord 1) and Saturn in the sign of Venus = I am willing to play that part.
Although Moon (his significator) is in Pisces the sign where Venus is exalted, Venus is in the detriment sign of the Moon: I don't think he is willing.

I think the problem that this chart shows, is: "It is easier to have some kind of contact if one actually see the other one than if one has to take the initiative to call or send an e-mail to some one he can't see."

I don't think that the VOID Moon in Pisces is strong enough to do that.

So the quincunx between lord 1 and lord 7 shows the separation between us. It is really over
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:53 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

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As far as people being 'leaving your life' is concerned, we must remember that everything STEMS from the natal chart. Even a horary analysis must be read within the context of the birth chart.
Uranus in transit opposing my Moon in House 12 = I feel like lately I lost every one I felt close with. Losing this contact is difficult, because we never said goodbye. It seemed it just ended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. View Post
If a horary chart is cast and one of your personal natal planets is 'rising' in the horary chart, (ie conjunct the radix ascendant) that is often quite telling and suggests that the question has extra significance or additional importance ?
For example, if you ask a question about a love relationship and your NATAL VENUS is found rising or in the same degree as the ascendant (give it an orb of no more than one degree) that means that the question is very serious and you cannot back away from it, easily !
Funnily there isn't any with my own chart. (Only the pars fortune is exactly on my desc).
However the asc of the horary is in the same degree as our composite-Venus and the MC is near (orb 2˚) our composite-Moon.
(but more important from a modern view is Pluto transiting our composite-IC and Uranus transiting our composite-desc.)
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:22 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

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So, taking my own advice into hand, I'd say this is a long shot then. I suppose Jupiter, being mutual reception with Moon, and Jupiter applying to Fortuna could effect something. But, without the Moon helping here, I just don't think so.
I guess you are right.
it won't work; Jupiter will turn around before he actually meets Fortuna.
And Saturn is doing the same thing.

The latest development is that he is putting his house up for rent.
Which I didn't like much, it means that he is breaking his ties to the island even more.
The date that was given was April 1st. (4 months after I draw the Horary = Saturn applying Fortuna).
I guess he might have to come to the island to remove his personal stuff. So technically there would be a realistic chance that I see him somewhere, but judging the horary, I will not be able to speak to him.

I will post if something happens.
Thanks to every one that responded!!!
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:08 PM
PlutonicAnna PlutonicAnna is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

No contact at all.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:11 PM
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

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The quincunx or 150 degree aspect (according to Barbara Watters) is frequently an aspect of fatalism, especially involved in horary questions re: transportation, airplane travel, car, or boating accidents.

The inconjunction is also an aspect that denotes an event with negative consequences for which the querent usually has little or no control or say over the matter.
R.J. Smith
Aside from the negative connotations, positive or karmic ones could apply too:

Fatal:
"Concerning or determining one's fate: the fatal thread of life.
Obsolete: Having been destined; fated.
decisively important; fateful
decreed by fate; destined; inevitable
proceeding from fate; inevitable: a fatal series of events.
pertaining to or concerned with fate."

So I'm thinking we could look at a Quincunx as a "fated or destiny" aspect like the North Node or Vertex -- especially since this definition is archaic (during Lilly's time).

In the case of it being negative, and there being no control -- I think this can relate to many things.

In a love horary, for example, a Quincunx could suggest that querant and/or quested have to make adjustments to how they normally operate. Initially this can appear as a negative as they can not act in their general manner while they are together; however, over time they may become much better human beings as they improve their relations with each other. This may also be why they are repeatedly drawn together, and are destined to work out karma that holds them back. Together, they can straighten themselves out -- eventually.

Anyone?
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:54 PM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: Does a quincunx-aspect count in a horary question about contact?

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Aside from the negative connotations, positive or karmic ones could apply too:
...
So I'm thinking we could look at a Quincunx as a "fated or destiny" aspect like the North Node or Vertex -- especially since this definition is archaic (during Lilly's time).

No - Lilly did not say the quincunx aspect was a "fated or destiny" type of aspect! And Lilly is not "archaic". He published Christian Astrology in 1647 - the middle of the 17th century.

This "fated" interpretation is a 20th C astrologer's view (viz Barbara Watters). She may well have found it to be a "fated" aspect but that is a very very broad concept (!) and difficult to pin down to anything meaningful.

So … I'm sorry but I couldn't possibly agree with your interpretation of what a quincunx aspect could mean. It might but, equally, it might not.

Traditional horary doesn't use this aspect except to note that the planets are "in aversion" to each other : they can't see each other. Fair enough - they were in different countries. But there is no contact described by the aspect - which was the heart of the question.

Planets in aversion to each other can be interpreted as just that : in aversion, or standing with their backs to each other.


In the case of it being negative, and there being no control -- I think this can relate to many things.

In a love horary, for example, a Quincunx could suggest that querant and/or quested have to make adjustments to how they normally operate. Initially this can appear as a negative as they can not act in their general manner while they are together; however, over time they may become much better human beings as they improve their relations with each other. This may also be why they are repeatedly drawn together, and are destined to work out karma that holds them back. Together, they can straighten themselves out -- eventually.

Anyone?
What you say in the para above is also far fetched, in my view - "destined to work out karma" etc : & from a horary point of view.

Traditionally, the Nodes indicate "increase" and "decrease" - I always stick to that basic, simple meaning of these two points, and only consider planets that are bodily conjunct one or other of the two points within 1-3 degrees as being "increased" or "decreased" in relation to the question.
Cheers.___
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