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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and exludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Old 04-14-2012, 05:40 PM
mosthamm mosthamm is offline
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What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Hello astrologers!

What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Example : "In a day chart, see if the Sun is in a productive place; in a nocturnal chart, look for the
Moon in a productive place."


Thank you in davence!

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Old 04-14-2012, 07:13 PM
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Carris Carris is offline
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

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Originally Posted by mosthamm View Post
Hello astrologers!

What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Example : "In a day chart, see if the Sun is in a productive place; in a nocturnal chart, look for the
Moon in a productive place."


Thank you in davence!
The angles of the chart are the most important places i.e the ascendent, descendent, mid-heaven and nadir. Though a planet may be prominent even in other houses if it is the final dispositor, most aspected, conjunct a luminary, etc.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:41 PM
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

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The angles of the chart are the most important places i.e the ascendant, descendant, mid-heaven and nadir. Though a planet may be prominent even in other houses if it is the final dispositor, most aspected, conjunct a luminary, etc.
I do believe that traditionally being angular is definitely a productive place, and even being succedent is to a certain extent productive. Conjunction to the Sun indicates combustion, and isn't productive. Again traditionally, we would look to the planet's position, as well as it's condition (dignity/debility) to determine if it is productive.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

As my colleagues have said above me, the productive places are all of the angular houses - if I'm not mistaken - the beneficial succeedant houses (eleventh and fifth).
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:11 PM
mosthamm mosthamm is offline
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Thank you all very much for your responses.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:02 AM
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

As far as I'm aware, the term 'Productive places' was used by Paulus and Ptolemy to denote the possible places where the Hyleg can be found.
Ptolemy gives only 5 Productive Places (1/11/10/9/7), the reason for this was that they are above the horizon and they all aspect the Ascendant.

As of the general use of the term Productive Place I think that it can denote the Angular and Succedent houses. It was said that the Angular planet operates with the 100% of its power, the succedent one with 50% and the cadent one with only 25% of its strength.
Bonatti incorporates Cadency as one of the 12th Afflictions, which tells us that the planets in the cadent houses are not productive, or that they are productive in very little amount.

Ibn Ezra in explaining how to calculate the Almutem Figuris of the chart, tells us the following points to each house:
Planet in the 1st house gets 12 points
In 10th 11 points.
In 7th house - 10 points,
In 4th house - 9 points.
In 11th house - 8 points.
In 5th house - 7 points
In 2nd - 6 points
In 9th - 5 points
In 8th - 4 points
In 3rd - 3 points.
In 12th - 2 points
In 6th - 1 point.

As you can see, the 9th (cadent) house is regarded as 'better' then the succedent 8th. This is because it is one of the 'evil' houses, the 'iddle place', the death place and etc..
The 9th house although cadent it is the best from the cadent houses because it is not having evil in it by nature.

The 8th as being productive or non-productive was a theme of great debate among astrologers, and some say that it is not acceptable (for Hyleg) by any means (Ptolemy), some says that it can be Productive if the possible Hyleg is in Masculine sign and etc..
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:24 AM
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
As far as I'm aware, the term 'Productive places' was used by Paulus and Ptolemy to denote the possible places where the Hyleg can be found.
Ptolemy gives only 5 Productive Places (1/11/10/9/7), the reason for this was that they are above the horizon and they all aspect the Ascendant.

As of the general use of the term Productive Place I think that it can denote the Angular and Succedent houses. It was said that the Angular planet operates with the 100% of its power, the succedent one with 50% and the cadent one with only 25% of its strength.
Bonatti incorporates Cadency as one of the 12th Afflictions, which tells us that the planets in the cadent houses are not productive, or that they are productive in very little amount.

Ibn Ezra in explaining how to calculate the Almutem Figuris of the chart, tells us the following points to each house:
Planet in the 1st house gets 12 points
In 10th 11 points.
In 7th house - 10 points,
In 4th house - 9 points.
In 11th house - 8 points.
In 5th house - 7 points
In 2nd - 6 points
In 9th - 5 points
In 8th - 4 points
In 3rd - 3 points.
In 12th - 2 points
In 6th - 1 point.

As you can see, the 9th (cadent) house is regarded as 'better' then the succedent 8th. This is because it is one of the 'evil' houses, the 'iddle place', the death place and etc..
The 9th house although cadent it is the best from the cadent houses because it is not having evil in it by nature.

The 8th as being productive or non-productive was a theme of great debate among astrologers, and some say that it is not acceptable (for Hyleg) by any means (Ptolemy), some says that it can be Productive if the possible Hyleg is in Masculine sign and etc..
My Almuten is Mars as well the Almuten for my PoF. My Mars is also the strongest planet in my chart. Yet I have inclinations of ever wanting to do what Mars denotes (such as Sports, Military, etc.) My Mars is in the 1st, I suppose it can be productive if I put it too good use.

Like everyone has stated the Angular Houses are the "productive places" (since houses were generaly called places in the past), followed by the Succeedent House, then the Cadent ones.

I have read somewhere that planets can be saved from their cadent states if (i.e. empowered) by being in their domciles, exalted, trine a benefic such a Jupiter or Venus, or in mutual reception with a benefic. Then there are the accidental dignities too consider. Don't we all wish it was easy?
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:32 PM
mosthamm mosthamm is offline
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
As far as I'm aware, the term 'Productive places' was used by Paulus and Ptolemy to denote the possible places where the Hyleg can be found.
Ptolemy gives only 5 Productive Places (1/11/10/9/7), the reason for this was that they are above the horizon and they all aspect the Ascendant.

As of the general use of the term Productive Place I think that it can denote the Angular and Succedent houses. It was said that the Angular planet operates with the 100% of its power, the succedent one with 50% and the cadent one with only 25% of its strength.
Bonatti incorporates Cadency as one of the 12th Afflictions, which tells us that the planets in the cadent houses are not productive, or that they are productive in very little amount.

Ibn Ezra in explaining how to calculate the Almutem Figuris of the chart, tells us the following points to each house:
Planet in the 1st house gets 12 points
In 10th 11 points.
In 7th house - 10 points,
In 4th house - 9 points.
In 11th house - 8 points.
In 5th house - 7 points
In 2nd - 6 points
In 9th - 5 points
In 8th - 4 points
In 3rd - 3 points.
In 12th - 2 points
In 6th - 1 point.

As you can see, the 9th (cadent) house is regarded as 'better' then the succedent 8th. This is because it is one of the 'evil' houses, the 'iddle place', the death place and etc..
The 9th house although cadent it is the best from the cadent houses because it is not having evil in it by nature.

The 8th as being productive or non-productive was a theme of great debate among astrologers, and some say that it is not acceptable (for Hyleg) by any means (Ptolemy), some says that it can be Productive if the possible Hyleg is in Masculine sign and etc..

Thank you very much,Omnisphericus! That's an useful answer.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:26 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

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Section 36 “Productive Signs” by Porphyry of Tyre

According to Timaeus, there are a total of seven productive places in a nativity, including the four angular houses, the two houses which are trine to the first house and the house rising up after the tenth house. The remaining houses are unproductive. Often, however, if the greater part of the ascending sign happens to have risen up above the horizon, and thus one of the latter degrees of the sign marks the Ascendant degree, then the sign on the second house will share in the productivity of the first house
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:32 AM
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Re: What does "productive places" mean in astrology?

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QUOTE

Section 36 “Productive Signs” by Porphyry of Tyre

According to Timaeus, there are a total of seven productive places in a nativity, including the four angular houses, the two houses which are trine to the first house and the house rising up after the tenth house. The remaining houses are unproductive. Often, however, if the greater part of the ascending sign happens to have risen up above the horizon, and thus one of the latter degrees of the sign marks the Ascendant degree, then the sign on the second house will share in the productivity of the first house
Good point ( underlined )
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