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Old 04-15-2012, 07:45 PM
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Question How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Say for instance someone has Sun in Taurus 27 degrees 27 and Jupiter in Scorpio 12 degrees 15. That is not an opposition aspect.

But wouldn't there still be complications considering they're opposite signs in the zodiac?

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Old 04-15-2012, 07:50 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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Originally Posted by soratothamax View Post
Say for instance someone has Sun in Taurus 27 degrees 27 and Jupiter in Scorpio 12 degrees 15. That is not an opposition aspect.

But wouldn't there still be complications considering they're opposite signs in the zodiac?
That is an opposition by Sign
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:28 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

So would oppositions by sign have a similar influence to a person who is opposition by aspect?

Would it be like the Sun opposition Jupiter?

This person seems to have a huge problem with stability and prefers to live life on the edge...She loves travel of all sorts and doesn't enjoy stability and hates peace. She gets itchy when things are too comfortable. She's never had a stable home and doesn't want one.

So even though she doesn't have an opposition would that opposition still be influencing her?

Let me post the person's chart as an example.

Oh boy I think this belongs in Read My Chart now.
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File Type: jpg astro_2gw_08_0222.13562.29428.jpg (84.2 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by soratothamax; 04-16-2012 at 03:49 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:34 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Vedic astrology, and ancient Hellenist astrology used aspects by signs, not by degrees; I consider that apsects by degrees dominate, but if there is no aspect by degree, then I consider aspect by sign as a potential, diffuse (mild type) of aspect.
Modernist astrology does not consider aspect by sign to be operative.
So, come to your own conclusion regarding aspects, that is, whether or not you decide to "count" aspects other than the straight degree based -aspects, as effectual....
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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Originally Posted by soratothamax View Post
Say for instance someone has Sun in Taurus 27 degrees 27 and Jupiter in Scorpio 12 degrees 15. That is not an opposition aspect.

But wouldn't there still be complications considering they're opposite signs in the zodiac?
By solar arc directions, an opposition between her SA Jupiter and her natal Sun would form at around the age of 15, moving on a couple years later. She would therefore have experienced an opposition of sorts between these two planets in her adolescence and also when transiting Jupiter hit the opposition point with her natal Sun
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:56 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Wow thanks for the info. adolescent years were spent with extravagance and overconfidence in her own abilities. She often "rebeled" and went against herself.

I think I'll use both as aspects, both by degree and signs...or I'll consider both. Thanks again.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:31 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

I asked a lot of people if my saturn opposite my venus-sun and they said no despite all effects of this aspects applies on me
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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I asked a lot of people if my saturn opposite my venus-sun and they said no despite all effects of this aspects applies on me
fwiw IMO theV your Sun/Venus conjunction is most definitely opposed by Saturn and not only by sign but also by aspect
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:52 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
fwiw IMO theV your Sun/Venus conjunction is most definitely opposed by Saturn and not only by sign but also by aspect
A lot of people denies it I feel like I have those two aspect because I read about them and they applies on me
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:22 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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A lot of people denies it I feel like I have those two aspect because I read about them and they applies on me
Did these many people explain to you why they deny the aspect? IMO you can judge better what applies to you!
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:00 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

They are in opposition by sign

HOWEVER, relative to the "stronger" opposition BY DEGREE:

For me, the orb is to wide: if Saturn is at 22 degrees and Sun/Venus span 9 to 13 degrees, that's a nearly 13 degree orb from Sun to Saturn, and if we average the Sun/Venus conjunction (mid point of conjunction @ 10.5 degrees) that would be an 11.5 degree opposition orb: true, Traditionalist astrology tends to use wide (very wide) orbs, however, since the maximum orb many others (like me) use for a conjunction involving the Sun, is 7 to 8 degrees (stretching to the maximum) I would not consider a degree-based opposition to exist in the reference chart (from my point of view and the orbs I follow)

It would be of value to check the declinations of the planets involved, to see if a contra-parallel exists.

Venus is combust the Sun, though, in the reference chart...

Last edited by dr. farr; 05-28-2012 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:42 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

But some of thing I read are true very true they told me that The orb is almost 10 degrees.

Last edited by theV; 05-28-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:16 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theV View Post
But some of thing I read are true very true they told me that The orb is almost 10 degrees.
theV, some traditional astrologers say the orb of aspects between Sun and Saturn is 12º and can even be as much as 13º 30'!!

Table showing maximum distance at which planets are in orb of each other states:

Sun = 15
º and Saturn = 9º
SO then
15º + 9º= 24º
which is then divided in half to find “the moiety of the orb” and the result is 12º

Your sun is 13º away from opposing Saturn directly so may be possibly 1º “out of orb”

BUT at the top of the table are these words: “The emboldened figures use the most commonly accepted orb allowance.
The figures in normal type indicate a wider allowance accepted by some”

Therefore since IMO your own personal experience indicates a Sun opposition Saturn experience, then you are of course entitled to accept the wider orb allowance of 13º 30' as shown on the table at
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html


IMO for the individual, experience/perception of one's own life is what matters
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:17 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

I agree-one's experiences ARE what matters (over theoretical or "official" indications)
However, in this case, while I do not accept that there is a DEGREE based opposition, I fully concur that there IS an opposition BY SIGN, and, for me, this could account for the OP's experience of a Saturn opposition Sun/Venus situation.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:45 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

I confirm I have sun-venus Opp saturn based on my personal exp. My father and i doesn't get along He's been absent for my hole life I have a lot of male issues esp I am man i've been sexually abused and I lack self-esteem and have a lot of personal insecurities.But I am not that discipline maybe it goes to Moon-jupiter and mars uranus and neptune aspects but

i think we goes through all of this for one purpose that what saturn want to teach use
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:00 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soratothamax View Post

Would it be like the Sun opposition Jupiter?

This person seems to have a huge problem with stability and prefers to live life on the edge...She loves travel of all sorts and doesn't enjoy stability and hates peace. She gets itchy when things are too comfortable. She's never had a stable home and doesn't want one.
I'm not sure why you think that this description of her would relate to Sun-Jupiter. I'd look at her prominent Uranus, conjunct her South Node and ruling her MC .... a natural affinity for risk-taking, rebellion, and maybe living on the edge.

I wouldn't read Sun opposite Jupiter in these terms. Love of freedom, yes, and maybe an inflated sense of self or over-opinionation. But itchy feet and a dislike for stability feel more Uranian to me, especially a Uranian square... she does have a wide square from Uranus to her Ascendant and Ascendant ruler.

PS: I have natal Sun opposite Jupiter, and it hasn't manifested in the ways you describe.

PPS: This is a real chart? Born 1923???
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theV View Post
I confirm I have sun-venus Opp saturn based on my personal exp. My father and i doesn't get along He's been absent for my hole life I have a lot of male issues esp I am man i've been sexually abused and I lack self-esteem and have a lot of personal insecurities.But I am not that discipline maybe it goes to Moon-jupiter and mars uranus and neptune aspects but

i think we goes through all of this for one purpose that what saturn want to teach use
My heart goes out to you!

But I wonder if it's Saturn opposing Sun-Venus that reflects your issues? Saturn for sure is involved. It is the only planet in your chart that is located above the horizon. In retrograde, in Pisces, in the 8th, your Saturn could well represent an absent father.

You have a much closer Saturn opposition, between Saturn and Chiron, which I suspect could reflect the abuse problem you have experienced. Saturn-Chiron could also indicate trust issues and difficulties with authority figures.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:58 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy_AzVirgo View Post
My heart goes out to you!

But I wonder if it's Saturn opposing Sun-Venus that reflects your issues? Saturn for sure is involved. It is the only planet in your chart that is located above the horizon. In retrograde, in Pisces, in the 8th, your Saturn could well represent an absent father.

You have a much closer Saturn opposition, between Saturn and Chiron, which I suspect could reflect the abuse problem you have experienced. Saturn-Chiron could also indicate trust issues and difficulties with authority figures.
Thank you You have lightened my life It really good to hear something good when you said My heart goes out to you! my heart bumped up. I woke up everyday and I don't want to live I wish i sleeps for end time There is no one out there to say to me it will stick together this day will pass. no day passes with out a suicidal though crosses my thought. Than I think I don't have right to take my life only god has right to do that and I am still surprised how I manged to survive after all 5 years without showing any pain and thing that hurts the most is even the closet people to me is not there my father told that I am woman and My sister (I don't if she was joking) told me that he said I am not he is son.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:49 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

You're quite welcome. Hang in there!
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:29 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Don't worry I'll be rising
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:04 PM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy_AzVirgo View Post
My heart goes out to you!

But I wonder if it's Saturn opposing Sun-Venus that reflects your issues? Saturn for sure is involved. It is the only planet in your chart that is located above the horizon. In retrograde, in Pisces, in the 8th, your Saturn could well represent an absent father.

You have a much closer Saturn opposition, between Saturn and Chiron, which I suspect could reflect the abuse problem you have experienced. Saturn-Chiron could also indicate trust issues and difficulties with authority figures.
Good work, Judy.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:04 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
fwiw IMO theV your Sun/Venus conjunction is most definitely opposed by Saturn and not only by sign but also by aspect
with a 10 to 13 degree orb?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:43 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

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Originally Posted by *emma* View Post
with a 10 to 13 degree orb?
the reason for my comment *emma* is because in this particular case, we are discussing theV's natal Sun located at 9º Virgo 11'
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
theV, some traditional astrologers say the orb of aspects between Sun and Saturn is 12º and can even be as much as 13º 30'!!

Table showing maximum distance at which planets are in orb of each other states:

Sun = 15
º and Saturn = 9º
SO then
15º + 9º= 24º
which is then divided in half to find “the moiety of the orb” and the result is 12º

Your sun is 13º away from opposing Saturn directly so may be possibly 1º “out of orb”

BUT at the top of the table are these words: “The emboldened figures use the most commonly accepted orb allowance.
The figures in normal type indicate a wider allowance accepted by some”

Therefore since IMO your own personal experience indicates a Sun opposition Saturn experience, then you are of course entitled to accept the wider orb allowance of 13º 30' as shown on the table at
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html


IMO for the individual, experience/perception of one's own life is what matters
13º 30' is the wider orb allowance shown on the Skyscript table link provided in the above quote

13º 30' + 9º Virgo 11' = 22º Virgo 41'

and

22º Virgo 41' is in opposition to 22º Pisces 17'

Therefore
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
fwiw IMO theV your Sun/Venus conjunction is most definitely opposed by Saturn and not only by sign but also by aspect
However, that is just my opinion and amongst astrologers in general, there are many varying ideas regarding what is/is not an acceptable orb
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 05-30-2012 at 02:30 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:51 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

thats ok dont get ur nickers in a twist, why stop at 13 degrees, why not extend it to 15 or 20
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:08 AM
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Re: How can two opposite signs not be in opposition?

I think the (what I consider super-wide) orbs followed in Traditionalist astrology stem from the once universal basis (in Hellenist astrology) of sign aspects (rather than degree aspects which came later); note too that aspect by sign (rather than degree aspects) continue to be how aspects are determined in Vedic astrology, to the present time.

I accept aspect by sign, but I believe that aspect by degree using limited orbs, are more intense; if I don't find an aspect by degree involving a planet, then I see if there is an aspect by sign, which I count, but at a lesser intensity than if I find an aspect by degree (using a limited orb)
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