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  #51  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:53 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Someone once told me that with my strongly Piscean/Neptunian chart, I'm very often the unsuspecting "target" of the projection of other people's blind anger (Mars) - a natural-born scapegoat - but she didn't point out my weakling Pisces Mars in my Yod. Maybe she thought I wouldn't know what a "yod" was.

Raven, since it is so close to my North Node, is there anything I can learn, anyway I can grow from this?
Byron, technically you have all of Jupiter, Venus and Mars conjunct your North Node, but since Mars is the only planet at the apex of the Yod, this will be the most difficult one for you to integrate, I'd say. For instance, were you to just have Venus and Jupiter conjunct the NN, the business of transforming the status of feeling like a victim of circumstances beyond your control into one of compassion for and detachment from those who project their fears and anger on to you would be much easier. I'm not saying that this transformation needs to be traumatic, but there are probably Mars issues which need to be embraced by you in order for you to be able to fully embrace your north node in Pisces.......and I'd say only you know what these are.

For instance, most of the men I've known who have a Neptunian Mars - and this includes my son - have masculinity `issues' brought about by their heightened sensitivity in a world which expects men to be tough and able to automatically `do what men do'. This is a difficult journey for a sensitive man. I'd say that the first level of compassion needs to be for yourself, and the rest will just develop from there.

I could write more, but I'm almost sure you'll know what I mean by this.

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Old 04-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Byron, technically you have all of Jupiter, Venus and Mars conjunct your North Node, but since Mars is the only planet at the apex of the Yod, this will be the most difficult one for you to integrate, I'd say. For instance, were you to just have Venus and Jupiter conjunct the NN, the business of transforming the status of feeling like a victim of circumstances beyond your control into one of compassion for and detachment from those who project their fears and anger on to you would be much easier. I'm not saying that this transformation needs to be traumatic, but there are probably Mars issues which need to be embraced by you in order for you to be able to fully embrace your north node in Pisces.......and I'd say only you know what these are.

For instance, most of the men I've known who have a Neptunian Mars - and this includes my son - have masculinity `issues' brought about by their heightened sensitivity in a world which expects men to be tough and able to automatically `do what men do'. This is a difficult journey for a sensitive man. I'd say that the first level of compassion needs to be for yourself, and the rest will just develop from there.

I could write more, but I'm almost sure you'll know what I mean by this.

Hi R4VEN,
So glad you jumped into the conversation. Very interesting perspective! I usually don't give a lot of thought to quincunx(inconjuncts) and Yods, I do have to remind myself of to consider. A Quincunx, usually point to health issues, or at least that's what I have read.

Question about Pisces Mars, the bullying or target aspect, what if it's part of a Grand Cross? Would this make is more debilitated or actually give it more strength. I have met, both female and male, Pisces Mars people lately. It's very odd, but the common theme has been bullying from their mothers.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:21 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Hi R4VEN,
A Quincunx, usually point to health issues, or at least that's what I have read.
Hi Vista. I would reply to the above with: Only if the person refuses to deal with this quincunx. Any quincunx is a sore point on a chart, and creates difficulty for the native if they continue to ignore or deny it.

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Question about Pisces Mars, the bullying or target aspect, what if it's part of a Grand Cross? Would this make is more debilitated or actually give it more strength. I have met, both female and male, Pisces Mars people lately. It's very odd, but the common theme has been bullying from their mothers.
Interesting about the bullying from the mothers. I think that many mothers are left with having to parent their sons, and so they unconsciously project on to them a lot of their own `stuff', so pushing their sons to be more `manly' - whatever that means.

I can't say definitively about the Grand Cross Pisces Mars, although there is the potential for it to be strengthened/supported. It all depends upon the other planets involved. For instance, a Grand Cross with Neptune in Sag and Moon in Gemini and Venus in Virgo could be quite difficult. Pisces/12th house Mars (or Mars-Neptune conjunct as I have) depend upon other aspects to challenge it or support it, or further weaken it. I know a man with Pisces Mars in opposition to Jupiter in Virgo. Looks good on paper, but due to his own quite suffocating mothering, and the total absence of a father, he tends to act impulsively and with grand gestures, at the wrong time and in the wrong way, so looking like a total prat. I don't like the guy at all, but I feel sorry for him also.

Your comment on the `bullying mothers' has now led me to look at the fathers of men with Pisces Mars. I mentioned the guy above, whose own father was actively kept from him because the mother wished to `own' her son totally. My son's father was (and possibly still is) a man who refuses to initiate, and insists that others act first, and he'll follow if the project looks like being a success. I found this to be impossible to live with, and I think that this modelling of inaction seems common among men with Pisces Mars sons.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:43 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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I can't say definitively about the Grand Cross Pisces Mars, although there is the potential for it to be strengthened/supported.
Raven and Vista, one thing I might add to this is that hard transits to my natal Mars, which many transit books suggest may bring great energy that needs to be watched and harnessed in a productive way, etc., usually just debilitate me - I actually feel depressed during bad transits to my Mars, and if anything else, I get hurt (either my feelings or by some accident, such as cutting myself while cooking). My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)

On the other hand, whenever I have a hard Mars transit to my natal Sun-Pluto opposition, for example, one best steer clear of me! (However, I think because my Sun-Pluto is intercepted, I often end up "imploding" and causing myself the most harm.)
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Your comment on the `bullying mothers' has now led me to look at the fathers of men with Pisces Mars. I mentioned the guy above, whose own father was actively kept from him because the mother wished to `own' her son totally....I think that this modelling of inaction seems common among men with Pisces Mars sons.
An amazing parallel, Raven!! (It gave me chills reading that!) This was exactly the case with my mother and father. My father, though physically there, was largely absent from and seemed uninterested in my life - he didn't even attend any of my graduations. My mother, on the other hand, wanted me to be her "surrogate spouse" (a term one of my therapists used), making me accompany her to parties (which mortified me), planning to come live with me when I was going away to university, and viciously demeaning my father to me every chance she could.
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there are probably Mars issues which need to be embraced by you in order for you to be able to fully embrace your north node in Pisces.......and I'd say only you know what these are.

For instance, most of the men I've known who have a Neptunian Mars - and this includes my son - have masculinity `issues' brought about by their heightened sensitivity in a world which expects men to be tough and able to automatically `do what men do'. This is a difficult journey for a sensitive man
Again, brilliant deduction, Raven! I am aware of many complex "Mars issues" I need to finally completely embrace, which I've kept mostly to myself throughout the years, which have crippled my self-esteem (though most don't know it), caused me to secretly feel unworthy, vulnerable, too worried about compensating for, all resulting in deep resentments. Yes, it is a rough world for a sensitive man! I scored almost 100% on Elaine Aron's "Highly Sensitive Person" test and others like it - I'm an authority on being a sensitive man!
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I'd say that the first level of compassion needs to be for yourself, and the rest will just develop from there.
<<big hug>>This brought tears to my eyes. I've always been my own worst critic, never good at giving myself a break.

However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Hi Vista. I would reply to the above with: Only if the person refuses to deal with this quincunx. Any quincunx is a sore point on a chart, and creates difficulty for the native if they continue to ignore or deny it.


Interesting about the bullying from the mothers. I think that many mothers are left with having to parent their sons, and so they unconsciously project on to them a lot of their own `stuff', so pushing their sons to be more `manly' - whatever that means.

I can't say definitively about the Grand Cross Pisces Mars, although there is the potential for it to be strengthened/supported. It all depends upon the other planets involved. For instance, a Grand Cross with Neptune in Sag and Moon in Gemini and Venus in Virgo could be quite difficult. Pisces/12th house Mars (or Mars-Neptune conjunct as I have) depend upon other aspects to challenge it or support it, or further weaken it. I know a man with Pisces Mars in opposition to Jupiter in Virgo. Looks good on paper, but due to his own quite suffocating mothering, and the total absence of a father, he tends to act impulsively and with grand gestures, at the wrong time and in the wrong way, so looking like a total prat. I don't like the guy at all, but I feel sorry for him also.

Your comment on the `bullying mothers' has now led me to look at the fathers of men with Pisces Mars. I mentioned the guy above, whose own father was actively kept from him because the mother wished to `own' her son totally. My son's father was (and possibly still is) a man who refuses to initiate, and insists that others act first, and he'll follow if the project looks like being a success. I found this to be impossible to live with, and I think that this modelling of inaction seems common among men with Pisces Mars sons.

Thank you for the excellent feedback. I agree with your thoughts on single mothers; so difficult! Also, I agree with your comments about 12th house/Pis Mars, it is an interesting one.

The one person I am thinking of with the Grand Cross I spoke of that includes Pisces Mars has several planets in fire signs(Pluto/Jupiter) and another two in water due to late degrees with all three of these planets. His Grand Cross includes Moon/Mer(Gem)-Mars(Pis)-Saturn Rx (Scorpio)-and Jup/Pluto(Leo). I don't think I have ever seen this before but feel it would give a little more grit than a Mutable Grand Cross normally would. Maybe wanting to change everything and yet, keep everything the same?? BTW, is mother was rather rejecting and used to throw things at him.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Raven and Vista, one thing I might add to this is that hard transits to my natal Mars, which many transit books suggest may bring great energy that needs to be watched and harnessed in a productive way, etc., usually just debilitate me - I actually feel depressed during bad transits to my Mars, and if anything else, I get hurt (either my feelings or by some accident, such as cutting myself while cooking). My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)

On the other hand, whenever I have a hard Mars transit to my natal Sun-Pluto opposition, for example, one best steer clear of me! (However, I think because my Sun-Pluto is intercepted, I often end up "imploding" and causing myself the most harm.)An amazing parallel, Raven!! (It gave me chills reading that!) This was exactly the case with my mother and father. My father, though physically there, was largely absent from and seemed uninterested in my life - he didn't even attend any of my graduations. My mother, on the other hand, wanted me to be her "surrogate spouse" (a term one of my therapists used), making me accompany her to parties (which mortified me), planning to come live with me when I was going away to university, and viciously demeaning my father to me every chance she could.Again, brilliant deduction, Raven! I am aware of many complex "Mars issues" I need to finally completely embrace, which I've kept mostly to myself throughout the years, which have crippled my self-esteem (though most don't know it), caused me to secretly feel unworthy, vulnerable, too worried about compensating for, all resulting in deep resentments. Yes, it is a rough world for a sensitive man! I scored almost 100% on Elaine Aron's "Highly Sensitive Person" test and others like it - I'm an authority on being a sensitive man! <<big hug>>This brought tears to my eyes. I've always been my own worst critic, never good at giving myself a break.

However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
I wonder if it's the combination of Mars-Venus-Jupiter that makes hard transits so difficult? That's quite a powerhouse of planets involving the two most benefic planets with a malefic. When you are depressed during bad transits to Mars, perhaps since Venus is involved and the ruler of your Moon, maybe it's more significant? Just a thought. It does seem this stellium is the most strongly felt when I would look at angular Sun/Mer in Aquarius and stable Moon in Taurus as one who wouldn't be quite as sensitive, or rather I would think it would balance the sensitivity out. Believe me, I ponder oversensitivity quite a bit because I have Moon in Cancer in the 4th and it's part of the Water Grand Trine(Kite actually) when I have otherwise pretty "insensitive" planetary placement. Even so, it seems to "rule the roost" so to speak!

It sounds horrible what your mother did and your fathers lack of interest. Imagine living with her own son while he's at University!! How twisted!
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:00 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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I wonder if it's the combination of Mars-Venus-Jupiter that makes hard transits so difficult?...
Yes, that does make sense, Vista! I hadn't thought of it that way: my Mars is never affected by a transit alone, always with Venus and Jupiter.
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It does seem this stellium is the most strongly felt when I would look at angular Sun/Mer in Aquarius and stable Moon in Taurus as one who wouldn't be quite as sensitive, or rather I would think it would balance the sensitivity out.
A few things to consider in understanding why my Pisces stellium is so sensitive:
  1. My Pisces Venus and Libra Neptune are in mutual reception (Venus rules Libra, Neptune rules Pisces), which has something of the effect of a conjunction, I believe. So you might imagine Neptune as part of this Pisces stellium. Super Pisces!
  2. My Neptune is trine my Sun and sextile my Pluto, both of which are intercepted, so Neptune is the only "free" planet in this formation, which Alan Oken called an "easy opposition"; he said that the apex planet (Neptune in my case) is the "resolution" to the problem posed by the opposition.
  3. Neptune is my most elevated planet, which many traditional astrologers say increases the planet's influence in the chart.
  4. My Sun is intercepted, and on another thread, it was discussed that this rather debilitates the Sun. I think it was Raven who said that intercepted Suns can't seem to get any "traction". So my Pisces stellium acts something like an unintercepted Sun for me. I feel more Pisces than Aquarius.
I think my stalwart Moon in Taurus gave me the strength to keep me from completely succumbing to my alcoholic mother's insanity and bullying. I needed years of therapy, and my life fell far short of what it could have been...but my younger brother committed suicide, and my sister became a promiscuous drug addict and ended up in prison.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:12 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Yes, that does make sense, Vista! I hadn't thought of it that way: my Mars is never affected by a transit alone, always with Venus and Jupiter.A few things to consider in understanding why my Pisces stellium is so sensitive:
  1. My Pisces Venus and Libra Neptune are in mutual reception (Venus rules Libra, Neptune rules Pisces), which has something of the effect of a conjunction, I believe. So you might imagine Neptune as part of this Pisces stellium. Super Pisces!
  2. My Neptune is trine my Sun and sextile my Pluto, both of which are intercepted, so Neptune is the only "free" planet in this formation, which Alan Oken called an "easy opposition"; he said that the apex planet (Neptune in my case) is the "resolution" to the problem posed by the opposition.
  3. Neptune is my most elevated planet, which many traditional astrologers say increases the planet's influence in the chart.
  4. My Sun is intercepted, and on another thread, it was discussed that this rather debilitates the Sun. I think it was Raven who said that intercepted Suns can't seem to get any "traction". So my Pisces stellium acts something like an unintercepted Sun for me. I feel more Pisces than Aquarius.
I think my stalwart Moon in Taurus gave me the strength to keep me from completely succumbing to my alcoholic mother's insanity and bullying. I needed years of therapy, and my life fell far short of what it could have been...but my younger brother committed suicide, and my sister became a promiscuous drug addict and ended up in prison.

Oh wow, my goodness!! Hadn't thought of all that!!! Thank you for pointing this out. I have to be more careful when looking at charts. At times I can look on the surface and forget there are many more factors beyonds sign placement and it's aspects. Another consideration with your Sun, it's in a pitted degree(so is my Moon). This is something newer to me so I am not quite certain how detrimental it is to the overall chart, even so, I would think it would add to the negative influence of the interception. Don't feel badly about your Mars, I have an unaspected, retrograde Mars in my natal chart and it rules my ASC. This has been the single most difficult placement for me, something I did not realize the magnitude of until more recently.

I think you have lived up to your potential. You are educated with a career, far better than millions of other people that barely graduate high-school or life-time welfare recipients. Give yourself credit, clearly you have risen above the cards you were dealt as a child. This takes grit and character, something your siblings did/do not have.

Edit: Well darn, I looked at another list for pitted degrees one provided by Dr Farr and both my Moon and your Sun according to his list say they ARE NOT in pitted degrees. Dr Farr's list says 21 for Aquarious and 17 for Moon. The list I looked at earlier said 22 and 16!! So confusing!

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Old 04-16-2012, 01:19 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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The one person I am thinking of with the Grand Cross I spoke of that includes Pisces Mars has several planets in fire signs(Pluto/Jupiter) and another two in water due to late degrees with all three of these planets. His Grand Cross includes Moon/Mer(Gem)-Mars(Pis)-Saturn Rx (Scorpio)-and Jup/Pluto(Leo). I don't think I have ever seen this before but feel it would give a little more grit than a Mutable Grand Cross normally would. Maybe wanting to change everything and yet, keep everything the same?? BTW, is mother was rather rejecting and used to throw things at him.
Vista, I would imagine that the fire planets - plus Saturn in Scorpio - would give him some `traction' in his life, but the Pisces Mars - or Piscean/Neptunian Mars still seems to be a `target' for others, moreso for men.

My older son also has a 12th house Mars, but it's in Leo, so he was not nearly so targeted as a child growing up, but his father did reject him for a while because he was `weird'. (I on the other hand, still had to care for him and love him, weird or not!!) Both my sons have Moon in Pisces also, which doesn't help at all. It works a bit like Byron's Pisces stellium and strong Neptune.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:06 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)
The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!
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However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:26 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!

Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.
Excellent advice R4VEN. I am going to look into Lindy's story. I seem to recall something about her. How tragic. As for the man you are speaking of, really all that comes to mind is "ewe."


I dated a man who had a 12th house Mars in Aquarius inconjunct his Uranus/Pluto in Virgo in the 7th house. He hated women and fought with them all the time. He describe his mother as "a slut who tried to rope men into marrying her by sleeping with them." She also lied about who his father was and used to steal luggage from the airport why him and his sister waited curbside for her to come rolling up with luggage.

Byron,
I hope you hear what R4VEN is saying to you!! You created your own path and now you are walking it, albeit with a few bumps in the road you have risen above your lot in life! Your brother and sister are the weak one's, they let life beat them down. You didn't because you are strong yet you have compassion and empathy towards others.

Last edited by Vista; 04-16-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:51 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

Thank you both so much! This has been a very rewarding and thought-provoking thread. So much has been explained, I've learned a lot, and I still have much here to ponder for some time.

I have good reason to suspect that Raven is a karmist, as am I. (And I hope you haven't minded my changing R4ven to a more personal "Raven", one of my favorite names.)

Feeling that all this pain has been my fair and just karma has been the only way that I could bear to keep on going...and hopefully, growing. To use a horribly old cliché: No pain, no gain.

I hope that I can look back on this difficult life and say, "I really learned so much, I really grew, I really made progress in that lifetime!"

Sincerely,

Byron
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Byron Byron is offline
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

In case anyone has been following this thread of Saturn squaring my Capricorn Ascendant, I just thought I'd finish the "saga" - the third and last strike is now starting to separate. And it was less agonizing than the first and second hits.

When it recently went exact this week, for the last time, I once again felt an escalation of tension that became painful at partile. And unfortunately, the one or two glasses of wine to relax turned into a bottle...twice - something I'm kicking myself for, as I would like to think that by now I'm mature enough not to do damage to myself like that...but the emotional pressure felt nearly unbearable at the time.

But now that it's separating, I believe that I can clearly see now what this transit was all about. As Saturn was applying to this square for the last time, I finally saw so well who my true supporters were...and who weren't. Amazingly, my sister reconciled with me (!) saying she loved and missed me too much to be without me in her life (and there are no strings attached this time)...I was both shocked and very moved and thankful. I also found out which neighbors were true friends, and which ones were actually bad for my peace of mind - which I already sensed knew down deep (and stayed in a kind of denial), but now I know at conscious level. At work, the people whom I can truly trust (and therefore relate to unequivocally) reaffirmed their true worth and willing support; likewise, the ones whom I cannot/should not trust or believe in also revealed themselves even more obviously for what they were (seeing that again was actually a strong factor in my increasing inner stress, which involved both anger and paranoia, as I felt both deep resentment for their past betrayals and fear of what further damage they might do). But that "feels" over now. I am no longer angry at or fearful of these people. They are just "off my list". Letting go. Moving on. Loving myself.

And today, as Saturn is slowly getting off my back, I just want to call those people I've neglected but now realize are good friends, to re-connect with them. I went through a schizoid (socially avoidant) phase during this long Saturn transit where I just wanted to cut all ties - but maybe I was subconsciously trying to back off enough to get a truer perspective of how I should be relating to my world.

Now I have to start working on my next encounter with Saturn, triple-squaring my Sun at 23 degrees Aquarius (forming a T-square with my natal Sun/Pluto opposition). I've got a year or so to prepare. Any suggestions for the best way to face this significant square would be most welcome. Fortunately, I'll be retired by then!

Byron

PS: Curiously, during this recent square, I also was finally forced to retire my old, ailing Saturn car (the brand)...and the first car (and price) that attracted my eye (and I bought it) was a comfortable, gold Ford Taurus! (I have natal Taurus Moon now being trined by tr. Pluto). The synchronicity of this, these brand names, did not occur to me at the time! Duh!

PPS: I have reread this entire thread. What wonderful, insightful observations, advice, support from you all! My sincerest thanks! How much we have shared and how much we have given to one another! I HAVE learned. Saturn, the Old Teacher, has taught me some painful lessons about relating to my world that I won't forget.
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Last edited by Byron; 10-07-2012 at 08:50 AM.
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