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  #26  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:07 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

Hi everyone (R4VEN, really nice to see you again ). I'm also undergoing this transit at the moment. At the same time, Saturn is approaching its retrograde conjunction to my natal Sun in the 9th.

It's certainly been a challenging period. I'm in my second year of University, and have been dealing with a variety of new challenges. From the very practical facts of living, to building academic skills, and continuing to work on my personal issues. I decided to extend my undergrad and limit my course load this year to a small few but very challenging courses. It's allowed me to divide my time almost evenly towards those different areas of my life. It's been difficult, but rewarding.

Saturn has been revealing a lot of harsh reality, especially in close relationships. I've been learning a great deal about how I've been limiting myself, or expecting more than I can realistically provide. At the same time, I see where I expect too much of others.

I've been working at reforming those bad behaviours/perspectives and have been building some greater personal integrity. My roommates haven't been very comfortable with the new Kayla. They are childhood friends of mine who are very used to an a-okay attitude, always saying yes, never speaking up for myself. As I've been changing, we have drifted apart. We spend less time together, share less. Oddly enough, I think I've begun to intimidate them.. a weird feeling.. yet they treat me with greater respect. Very bittersweet.

I've also met a lot of very new and different people, despite the fact that I have been pretty reserved (I struggle with anxiety). They are showing me sides to myself I wasn't aware existed, it's humbling and encouraging. Mostly I am realizing the ways in which I have been self-defeating (Cap also rules 12th house) or delusional!

The exact retrograde hit comes this Wednesday for Saturn square Asc, and the retrograde conjunction of Saturn to Sun comes on the 19th (smack in the middle of exams!) If anything concrete happens I'll share it here.

Best wishes everyone.

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Old 04-10-2012, 12:51 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I'm now undergoing transit Saturn square my Ascendant, which will retrograde into a long malefic transit. I didn't know how excruciating this transit could be. Regressing my horoscope to the last time this occurred (when I knew nothing about astrology), I realize that this was then an excruciating time, too. At least I have astrology to explain it this time, and can forecast the end, even though it's going to be quite a painful while with Saturn's retrograde.

I honestly feel like my whole world has turned completely upside down, wrong side out...that many whom I believed were trusted friends are now demanding, treacherous enemies, and every comfortable routine has somehow been changed into a horrible ordeal to survive.

Blessings and love to anyone undergoing a transit Saturn squaring your ascendant! It's a nightmare.

Byron
Is it squaring from the 10th or the 4th? Is there a natal aspect with Saturn and the ascendant also? Post your chart for a better opinion. I feel there may be other influences at work.
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Last edited by Claire19; 04-10-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:01 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Hmm this really shows the importance of Saturn in your own chart. How is Saturn in your natal chart?

I've Cancer rising at 27 degrees, I've had plenty of this, so it has just to move forward over it again one more time. I've been fine so far. Nothing too noticeable. My health is great, and Saturn is in my 6th natally.

Saturn ruling 7th
Moon 1st ruler square Saturn
Venus square Saturn
Sun trine Saturn exactly

Whatever the balance of the above conditions I'm doing fine, I was just curious about what is to come.
Saturn is our karmic planet and is what we have sown in the past that comes to fruition both good and bad.
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  #29  
Old 04-10-2012, 04:37 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Hmm this really shows the importance of Saturn in your own chart. How is Saturn in your natal chart?

I've Cancer rising at 27 degrees, I've had plenty of this, so it has just to move forward over it again one more time. I've been fine so far. Nothing too noticeable. My health is great, and Saturn is in my 6th natally.

Saturn ruling 7th
Moon 1st ruler square Saturn
Venus square Saturn
Sun trine Saturn exactly

Whatever the balance of the above conditions I'm doing fine, I was just curious about what is to come.
Saturn is in the 6th in Capricorn.

Saturn conjunction Neptune orb +1°23'
Saturn sextile Pluto orb +0°02'
Mars opposite Saturn orb -3°18'
Jupiter inconjunction Saturn orb -0°41'
Saturn conjunction Uranus orb +8°42'
Mercury bi-quintile Saturn orb -1°0

The ascendant opposition is too wide 13 to 26, but i guess thats a t-square-ish.
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  #30  
Old 04-10-2012, 06:51 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Originally Posted by KindredKayla View Post
I've been working at reforming those bad behaviours/perspectives and have been building some greater personal integrity. My roommates haven't been very comfortable with the new Kayla. They are childhood friends of mine who are very used to an a-okay attitude, always saying yes, never speaking up for myself. As I've been changing, we have drifted apart. We spend less time together, share less. Oddly enough, I think I've begun to intimidate them.. a weird feeling.. yet they treat me with greater respect. Very bittersweet.
I used to be like that, too. My parents kept walking over me, I got taken advantage of by my friends and I broke up with my ex who was (brace yourself) 28 years older than me. The latter happened just before Saturn entered Libra. After a few months I met my fiance, same age as me, and our relationship has matured me in a lot of ways. I have started amputating friendships and maybe my ties with my parents will be severed on my part, since even though I have set my boundaries, they don't seem to respect them.

I have gained respect from people after I graduated and I'm now studying for my post-grad exams. My break up with my ex (he was my Latin prof in my freshman year, started to have a relationship just a semester after this) helped me not only maintain my integrity, but also my credibility. Saturn has been squaring my Cancer Sun since the end of last year and a few months ago it started squaring my Capricorn Asc, and as a song says: "I learnt my lessons the hard way, every scar I earned. I had to bleed inside the day yard".

Last edited by labelledujour; 04-10-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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  #31  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:22 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

I'm just adding a couple of observations for anyone with Capricorn ASC. This week tr Saturn is exactly squaring my ASC, and I am feeling very low - hopeless, depressed, `what is the purpose of my life, because to me it looks pointless???' I am normally quite contemplative, but this kind of depressive mood is a bit scary, even for me.

Looking at my chart ruler - Saturn in the 8th house - just on its own, without its aspects, it represents my difficulty in `letting go' - this, after all, is at its core what the 8th house is about. When we find ourselves `losing' that which we have worked hard to attain - status, a job, a relationship, property/money - we struggle to accept that maybe these losses are in our best interests in terms of our spiritual growth in our life path. This is a life pattern of mine - to hold on for dear life, even when it is clear that something must go from my life. Both my natal Saturn and Uranus are inconjunct my ASC, so I oscillate between total control and excessive rebellion. Along comes tr Saturn squaring my ASC, and this pattern of oscillation is exposed as being quite irresponsible. There's more, to this, but that's all I'm prepared to talk about.

The OP has also shown a fear of losing that which he has worked hard to build - and his chart-ruler is also in the 8th house - and with Saturn squaring Uranus natally, I think that some of the extremes of emotions he expresses may be attributed to the release in tension that this square (between Uranus and Saturn) requires. The trine between Mercury and Uranus also may not allow for any kind of chaos in one's life (that is, in one's mental assessment of life) because everything is logical, everything is manageable, everything has an action and a predictable reaction..............of course, that is true in a sense, but just not in a logical and predictable sense.
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  #32  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:43 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
I'm just adding a couple of observations for anyone with Capricorn ASC. This week tr Saturn is exactly squaring my ASC, and I am feeling very low - hopeless, depressed, `what is the purpose of my life, because to me it looks pointless???' I am normally quite contemplative, but this kind of depressive mood is a bit scary, even for me.

Looking at my chart ruler - Saturn in the 8th house - just on its own, without its aspects, it represents my difficulty in `letting go' - this, after all, is at its core what the 8th house is about. When we find ourselves `losing' that which we have worked hard to attain - status, a job, a relationship, property/money - we struggle to accept that maybe these losses are in our best interests in terms of our spiritual growth in our life path. This is a life pattern of mine - to hold on for dear life, even when it is clear that something must go from my life. Both my natal Saturn and Uranus are inconjunct my ASC, so I oscillate between total control and excessive rebellion. Along comes tr Saturn squaring my ASC, and this pattern of oscillation is exposed as being quite irresponsible. There's more, to this, but that's all I'm prepared to talk about.
R4VEN- This week tr Saturn is exactly squaring my Asc, too. My ASC ruler, Saturn, is in Capricorn in the 12th house as part of the Uranus/Neptune/ Saturn Capricorn stellium. My mental health issues come to the fore, a fact for which I was prepared already at the beginning of last year, when trSaturn hit both the Capricorn stellium and my Mercury in Cancer. I do have a doomy and gloomy attitude, but the trine with my natal Jupiter in Gemini somehow makes me have to turn ideas into reality. I recently got diagnosed with depression and Asperger's. I have difficulty of letting go of stuff, but tr Pluto hitting my stellium and the 12th house is pressing me to get used to this reality.

Thank you for your observations, though, since I can relate to a great extent.
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  #33  
Old 04-10-2012, 04:19 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

SATURN JUST LEFT THE SQUARE TO MY ASC!

Finally!!!!!
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  #34  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:30 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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SATURN JUST LEFT THE SQUARE TO MY ASC!

Finally!!!!!
Lucky you!! Don't you feel relief or something?
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  #35  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:35 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Originally Posted by gen6k View Post
Saturn is in the 6th in Capricorn.

Saturn conjunction Neptune orb +1°23'
Saturn sextile Pluto orb +0°02'
Mars opposite Saturn orb -3°18'
Jupiter inconjunction Saturn orb -0°41'
Saturn conjunction Uranus orb +8°42'
Mercury bi-quintile Saturn orb -1°0

The ascendant opposition is too wide 13 to 26, but i guess thats a t-square-ish.
Hmm the most challenging aspects there to me is the Mars opposition. I would have expected more than that to account for the chain of disruptions and troubles that you experienced.
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:42 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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My dear, dear Raven,

That is exactly how I felt when Saturn was in orb squaring my 29 degree Capricorn ASC, especially in retrograde, as is it now for you! I empathize with you completely!! (Wish there were a hug icon I could put here.) I have to face this square one more time when Saturn goes direct.

In my natal chart, my Saturn is also in the 8th House and holds a prominent position as the middle planet in my natal Chiron-Saturn-Uranus T-square, which T Uranus has also been afflicting for a YEAR.

In fact, T Uranus is exactly square my Uranus (ruler of my Sun) right now, the right "leg" of this painful T-square, and I have been, not depressed, but rather extremely tense, anxious, unable to sleep. I've had insomnia for the past three days, which is scaring me a bit. I can only sleep for an hour or two a day.

My abusive, alcoholic mother's Sun was exactly conjunct my Saturn (thus square my Chiron and Uranus), and she often told me that I was helpless, useless, lacked a "sensible" purpose in life - and all of that came back to me in an excruciating deluge during T Saturn's retrograde square.

Hang in there! We'll make it! Thank heavens we know why we feel so bad. I feel sorry for people who don't have astrology to explain their suffering.

Hugs,

Byron
Thank you for the hugs, Byron By the time your reply came through my own mini crisis was over. I can only reiterate the words of Ion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion
The job of Saturn is to 'get us' to unite our mind and heart . . . .
Saturn is NOT causing this situation . . . Saturn is REVEALING it .
That was exactly what this recent Saturn square (Rx) to my ASC did for me. I have been in a long-term struggle with my boundaries - all & sundry walking in and taking advantage - and as a result of this square (along with tr Pluto's square to my Neptune-Mars exact conjunction ) I suddenly `found' my own personal boundary, and the whole picture became clear.

Byron, in looking again at your chart, do not ignore the power of that Yod, and any transits to your Yod planets. Especially that Pisces Mars at the apex is a bit like target on your back. I remember some of your background from earlier threads, but I just have to ask you - and feel free to ignore this question if you wish - do you consider that you have in your life been a target for bullying? It's just that a Pisces Mars tends to attract that kind of thing, and as a Yod apex planet this makes it moreso. My son has Mars in Libra in the 12th at the apex of his Yod. He is a gentle soul and avoids conflict, but other men tend to seek him out and take out their insecurities & anger on him. One day around 18 months ago he had 2 complete strangers come up to him, and one of them grabbed his shirt, which tore right down the front, then they each punched him, knocking him to the ground. Then they walked off. This was in broad daylight in our city; there were quite a lot of witnesses, but they did nothing to help, and even looked away when he got to his feet. This is a difficult Mars placement in itself, but the Yod renders it something of a beacon for the angry and insecure.
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  #37  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:53 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Someone once told me that with my strongly Piscean/Neptunian chart, I'm very often the unsuspecting "target" of the projection of other people's blind anger (Mars) - a natural-born scapegoat - but she didn't point out my weakling Pisces Mars in my Yod. Maybe she thought I wouldn't know what a "yod" was.

Raven, since it is so close to my North Node, is there anything I can learn, anyway I can grow from this?
Byron, technically you have all of Jupiter, Venus and Mars conjunct your North Node, but since Mars is the only planet at the apex of the Yod, this will be the most difficult one for you to integrate, I'd say. For instance, were you to just have Venus and Jupiter conjunct the NN, the business of transforming the status of feeling like a victim of circumstances beyond your control into one of compassion for and detachment from those who project their fears and anger on to you would be much easier. I'm not saying that this transformation needs to be traumatic, but there are probably Mars issues which need to be embraced by you in order for you to be able to fully embrace your north node in Pisces.......and I'd say only you know what these are.

For instance, most of the men I've known who have a Neptunian Mars - and this includes my son - have masculinity `issues' brought about by their heightened sensitivity in a world which expects men to be tough and able to automatically `do what men do'. This is a difficult journey for a sensitive man. I'd say that the first level of compassion needs to be for yourself, and the rest will just develop from there.

I could write more, but I'm almost sure you'll know what I mean by this.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Byron, technically you have all of Jupiter, Venus and Mars conjunct your North Node, but since Mars is the only planet at the apex of the Yod, this will be the most difficult one for you to integrate, I'd say. For instance, were you to just have Venus and Jupiter conjunct the NN, the business of transforming the status of feeling like a victim of circumstances beyond your control into one of compassion for and detachment from those who project their fears and anger on to you would be much easier. I'm not saying that this transformation needs to be traumatic, but there are probably Mars issues which need to be embraced by you in order for you to be able to fully embrace your north node in Pisces.......and I'd say only you know what these are.

For instance, most of the men I've known who have a Neptunian Mars - and this includes my son - have masculinity `issues' brought about by their heightened sensitivity in a world which expects men to be tough and able to automatically `do what men do'. This is a difficult journey for a sensitive man. I'd say that the first level of compassion needs to be for yourself, and the rest will just develop from there.

I could write more, but I'm almost sure you'll know what I mean by this.

Hi R4VEN,
So glad you jumped into the conversation. Very interesting perspective! I usually don't give a lot of thought to quincunx(inconjuncts) and Yods, I do have to remind myself of to consider. A Quincunx, usually point to health issues, or at least that's what I have read.

Question about Pisces Mars, the bullying or target aspect, what if it's part of a Grand Cross? Would this make is more debilitated or actually give it more strength. I have met, both female and male, Pisces Mars people lately. It's very odd, but the common theme has been bullying from their mothers.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:21 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Hi R4VEN,
A Quincunx, usually point to health issues, or at least that's what I have read.
Hi Vista. I would reply to the above with: Only if the person refuses to deal with this quincunx. Any quincunx is a sore point on a chart, and creates difficulty for the native if they continue to ignore or deny it.

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Question about Pisces Mars, the bullying or target aspect, what if it's part of a Grand Cross? Would this make is more debilitated or actually give it more strength. I have met, both female and male, Pisces Mars people lately. It's very odd, but the common theme has been bullying from their mothers.
Interesting about the bullying from the mothers. I think that many mothers are left with having to parent their sons, and so they unconsciously project on to them a lot of their own `stuff', so pushing their sons to be more `manly' - whatever that means.

I can't say definitively about the Grand Cross Pisces Mars, although there is the potential for it to be strengthened/supported. It all depends upon the other planets involved. For instance, a Grand Cross with Neptune in Sag and Moon in Gemini and Venus in Virgo could be quite difficult. Pisces/12th house Mars (or Mars-Neptune conjunct as I have) depend upon other aspects to challenge it or support it, or further weaken it. I know a man with Pisces Mars in opposition to Jupiter in Virgo. Looks good on paper, but due to his own quite suffocating mothering, and the total absence of a father, he tends to act impulsively and with grand gestures, at the wrong time and in the wrong way, so looking like a total prat. I don't like the guy at all, but I feel sorry for him also.

Your comment on the `bullying mothers' has now led me to look at the fathers of men with Pisces Mars. I mentioned the guy above, whose own father was actively kept from him because the mother wished to `own' her son totally. My son's father was (and possibly still is) a man who refuses to initiate, and insists that others act first, and he'll follow if the project looks like being a success. I found this to be impossible to live with, and I think that this modelling of inaction seems common among men with Pisces Mars sons.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Hi Vista. I would reply to the above with: Only if the person refuses to deal with this quincunx. Any quincunx is a sore point on a chart, and creates difficulty for the native if they continue to ignore or deny it.


Interesting about the bullying from the mothers. I think that many mothers are left with having to parent their sons, and so they unconsciously project on to them a lot of their own `stuff', so pushing their sons to be more `manly' - whatever that means.

I can't say definitively about the Grand Cross Pisces Mars, although there is the potential for it to be strengthened/supported. It all depends upon the other planets involved. For instance, a Grand Cross with Neptune in Sag and Moon in Gemini and Venus in Virgo could be quite difficult. Pisces/12th house Mars (or Mars-Neptune conjunct as I have) depend upon other aspects to challenge it or support it, or further weaken it. I know a man with Pisces Mars in opposition to Jupiter in Virgo. Looks good on paper, but due to his own quite suffocating mothering, and the total absence of a father, he tends to act impulsively and with grand gestures, at the wrong time and in the wrong way, so looking like a total prat. I don't like the guy at all, but I feel sorry for him also.

Your comment on the `bullying mothers' has now led me to look at the fathers of men with Pisces Mars. I mentioned the guy above, whose own father was actively kept from him because the mother wished to `own' her son totally. My son's father was (and possibly still is) a man who refuses to initiate, and insists that others act first, and he'll follow if the project looks like being a success. I found this to be impossible to live with, and I think that this modelling of inaction seems common among men with Pisces Mars sons.

Thank you for the excellent feedback. I agree with your thoughts on single mothers; so difficult! Also, I agree with your comments about 12th house/Pis Mars, it is an interesting one.

The one person I am thinking of with the Grand Cross I spoke of that includes Pisces Mars has several planets in fire signs(Pluto/Jupiter) and another two in water due to late degrees with all three of these planets. His Grand Cross includes Moon/Mer(Gem)-Mars(Pis)-Saturn Rx (Scorpio)-and Jup/Pluto(Leo). I don't think I have ever seen this before but feel it would give a little more grit than a Mutable Grand Cross normally would. Maybe wanting to change everything and yet, keep everything the same?? BTW, is mother was rather rejecting and used to throw things at him.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Raven and Vista, one thing I might add to this is that hard transits to my natal Mars, which many transit books suggest may bring great energy that needs to be watched and harnessed in a productive way, etc., usually just debilitate me - I actually feel depressed during bad transits to my Mars, and if anything else, I get hurt (either my feelings or by some accident, such as cutting myself while cooking). My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)

On the other hand, whenever I have a hard Mars transit to my natal Sun-Pluto opposition, for example, one best steer clear of me! (However, I think because my Sun-Pluto is intercepted, I often end up "imploding" and causing myself the most harm.)An amazing parallel, Raven!! (It gave me chills reading that!) This was exactly the case with my mother and father. My father, though physically there, was largely absent from and seemed uninterested in my life - he didn't even attend any of my graduations. My mother, on the other hand, wanted me to be her "surrogate spouse" (a term one of my therapists used), making me accompany her to parties (which mortified me), planning to come live with me when I was going away to university, and viciously demeaning my father to me every chance she could.Again, brilliant deduction, Raven! I am aware of many complex "Mars issues" I need to finally completely embrace, which I've kept mostly to myself throughout the years, which have crippled my self-esteem (though most don't know it), caused me to secretly feel unworthy, vulnerable, too worried about compensating for, all resulting in deep resentments. Yes, it is a rough world for a sensitive man! I scored almost 100% on Elaine Aron's "Highly Sensitive Person" test and others like it - I'm an authority on being a sensitive man! <<big hug>>This brought tears to my eyes. I've always been my own worst critic, never good at giving myself a break.

However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
I wonder if it's the combination of Mars-Venus-Jupiter that makes hard transits so difficult? That's quite a powerhouse of planets involving the two most benefic planets with a malefic. When you are depressed during bad transits to Mars, perhaps since Venus is involved and the ruler of your Moon, maybe it's more significant? Just a thought. It does seem this stellium is the most strongly felt when I would look at angular Sun/Mer in Aquarius and stable Moon in Taurus as one who wouldn't be quite as sensitive, or rather I would think it would balance the sensitivity out. Believe me, I ponder oversensitivity quite a bit because I have Moon in Cancer in the 4th and it's part of the Water Grand Trine(Kite actually) when I have otherwise pretty "insensitive" planetary placement. Even so, it seems to "rule the roost" so to speak!

It sounds horrible what your mother did and your fathers lack of interest. Imagine living with her own son while he's at University!! How twisted!
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:12 PM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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Yes, that does make sense, Vista! I hadn't thought of it that way: my Mars is never affected by a transit alone, always with Venus and Jupiter.A few things to consider in understanding why my Pisces stellium is so sensitive:
  1. My Pisces Venus and Libra Neptune are in mutual reception (Venus rules Libra, Neptune rules Pisces), which has something of the effect of a conjunction, I believe. So you might imagine Neptune as part of this Pisces stellium. Super Pisces!
  2. My Neptune is trine my Sun and sextile my Pluto, both of which are intercepted, so Neptune is the only "free" planet in this formation, which Alan Oken called an "easy opposition"; he said that the apex planet (Neptune in my case) is the "resolution" to the problem posed by the opposition.
  3. Neptune is my most elevated planet, which many traditional astrologers say increases the planet's influence in the chart.
  4. My Sun is intercepted, and on another thread, it was discussed that this rather debilitates the Sun. I think it was Raven who said that intercepted Suns can't seem to get any "traction". So my Pisces stellium acts something like an unintercepted Sun for me. I feel more Pisces than Aquarius.
I think my stalwart Moon in Taurus gave me the strength to keep me from completely succumbing to my alcoholic mother's insanity and bullying. I needed years of therapy, and my life fell far short of what it could have been...but my younger brother committed suicide, and my sister became a promiscuous drug addict and ended up in prison.

Oh wow, my goodness!! Hadn't thought of all that!!! Thank you for pointing this out. I have to be more careful when looking at charts. At times I can look on the surface and forget there are many more factors beyonds sign placement and it's aspects. Another consideration with your Sun, it's in a pitted degree(so is my Moon). This is something newer to me so I am not quite certain how detrimental it is to the overall chart, even so, I would think it would add to the negative influence of the interception. Don't feel badly about your Mars, I have an unaspected, retrograde Mars in my natal chart and it rules my ASC. This has been the single most difficult placement for me, something I did not realize the magnitude of until more recently.

I think you have lived up to your potential. You are educated with a career, far better than millions of other people that barely graduate high-school or life-time welfare recipients. Give yourself credit, clearly you have risen above the cards you were dealt as a child. This takes grit and character, something your siblings did/do not have.

Edit: Well darn, I looked at another list for pitted degrees one provided by Dr Farr and both my Moon and your Sun according to his list say they ARE NOT in pitted degrees. Dr Farr's list says 21 for Aquarious and 17 for Moon. The list I looked at earlier said 22 and 16!! So confusing!

Last edited by Vista; 04-15-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:19 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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The one person I am thinking of with the Grand Cross I spoke of that includes Pisces Mars has several planets in fire signs(Pluto/Jupiter) and another two in water due to late degrees with all three of these planets. His Grand Cross includes Moon/Mer(Gem)-Mars(Pis)-Saturn Rx (Scorpio)-and Jup/Pluto(Leo). I don't think I have ever seen this before but feel it would give a little more grit than a Mutable Grand Cross normally would. Maybe wanting to change everything and yet, keep everything the same?? BTW, is mother was rather rejecting and used to throw things at him.
Vista, I would imagine that the fire planets - plus Saturn in Scorpio - would give him some `traction' in his life, but the Pisces Mars - or Piscean/Neptunian Mars still seems to be a `target' for others, moreso for men.

My older son also has a 12th house Mars, but it's in Leo, so he was not nearly so targeted as a child growing up, but his father did reject him for a while because he was `weird'. (I on the other hand, still had to care for him and love him, weird or not!!) Both my sons have Moon in Pisces also, which doesn't help at all. It works a bit like Byron's Pisces stellium and strong Neptune.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:06 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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My experience is that all hard aspects to a Pisces Mars just weaken it. (But with Raven's observation, perhaps it's because mine is the apex of a Yod?)
The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!
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However, returning to the topic of Saturn square ASC, I think it's showing me just how wrong this has been, and how I've tried to earn the compassion of others who don't have any to give (I think that's my Capricorn - I must work for it and excel), when I should simply focus on loving myself as I am, while forgiving and truly detaching from those who would hurt me...I can think of a few right away.
Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.
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Last edited by R4VEN; 04-16-2012 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:26 AM
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Re: Saturn squaring my Ascendant

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The apex planet in a Yod is like a lightning rod. What it is you `need' to experience will blast its way in through that apex, which is why transits to your Mars are so so difficult for you.

I may have mentioned around 3 years ago when there was a lot of discussion on AW about yods........Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who had a dingo take her baby in August of 1980 while the family were camping at Uluru (Ayers Rock), but who was gaoled and generally reviled by around 70% of the country's population for being a `baby-killer' has a close Yod with Pluto-Neptune both inconjunct her Pisces Sun She was a `lightning rod' for all the mother-hatred this country's citizens had bottled up inside them. Her few years in gaol hardened her - temporarily - but she also has an interesting Leo stellium - Mars, Saturn, Pluto. Without that, who knows how she'd have endured what she went through? Keep in mind also that Pisces - sun, moon, mars, venus - can indicate that a degree of personal sacrifice may be required.

Your mother's behaviour towards you was perverse in any way of looking at it. Interestingly, the guy I mentioned earlier whose mother wanted to `own' him still thinks of his (now late) mother with a kind of desperate longing - for her to still be alive, I think. He seems unable to function without a strong and dominating, emasculating woman (which his ex-wife is, and she still controls him) in his life. What hit me as I read your post about what your mother had done was a recognition that the man of whom I speak has now created a sort of role for himself with his 25 yr-old daughter, herself a single mum with 3 small kids......(the oldest of whom is my 6-yr-old grandson, which is how I'm privy to so much of his information.) This man plays `daddy' to her kids and (what really creeps me out) is that he plays `boyfriend' to his daughter. He has no job, and lives on the considerable inheritances left him by dead relatives - his mother's siblings. In between receiving inheritance money, he sponges off others, including his daughter. He is no doubt quite capable, but he believes he is weak because this is what life has taught him.

So, Byron, you have an education and a career which you created all on your own. You are self-aware and highly intelligent, compassionate and passionate also. And what's even more important is that unlike your brother, you are still here!

Thanks for writing that. I needed to read it!! I could have written that myself. I think that what you have written above is one of those positive outcomes of a Saturn square ASC.
Excellent advice R4VEN. I am going to look into Lindy's story. I seem to recall something about her. How tragic. As for the man you are speaking of, really all that comes to mind is "ewe."


I dated a man who had a 12th house Mars in Aquarius inconjunct his Uranus/Pluto in Virgo in the 7th house. He hated women and fought with them all the time. He describe his mother as "a slut who tried to rope men into marrying her by sleeping with them." She also lied about who his father was and used to steal luggage from the airport why him and his sister waited curbside for her to come rolling up with luggage.

Byron,
I hope you hear what R4VEN is saying to you!! You created your own path and now you are walking it, albeit with a few bumps in the road you have risen above your lot in life! Your brother and sister are the weak one's, they let life beat them down. You didn't because you are strong yet you have compassion and empathy towards others.

Last edited by Vista; 04-16-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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