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  #1  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:43 PM
chicnobi chicnobi is offline
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love horaries

what books have love horaries ?

my love horary
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...d.php?p=377982

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Old 04-15-2012, 04:27 AM
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Re: love horaries

all horary books have sections about love and relationships. You can google Lilly's Christian Astrology, its free...
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:39 PM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
all horary books have sections about love and relationships. You can google Lilly's Christian Astrology, its free...
it is about marriage but not relationships?
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:31 PM
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Re: love horaries

It's the same thing! You follow the same rules
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:01 PM
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Re: love horaries

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Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
It's the same thing! You follow the same rules
but it is not about love, i have mutual reception in my horary
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:53 AM
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Re: love horaries

And that would be a testimony, but it is not the ONLY testimony to be considered; aspects of significators, conditions of significators, direction of flow, all need to be considered (even in my alternative horary methods) in addition to reception.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:02 AM
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Re: love horaries


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicnobi View Post
but it is not about love, i have mutual reception in my horary


I'd like to add the following - Most questions or "love horaries" are about a relationship with another person eg Will this relationship go anywhere? OR Will we get married? - ie will it be a serious sort of relationship. Or will it end now, or will we get together again? Still serious.

The other thing that you can see from a horary chart is if the relationship is likely to be a fun, romantic, sexual one - ie not so serious or long term but still with 'love' involved of course. That could be shown by the planets involved being in the 5th House or with 5 ruler either applying to them or to the ASC or 7th cusp.

Looking at the first type of serious relationship, we'd see if signifiers are applying WITH reception of some kind (by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term or Face) - an aspect with reception is going to ensure 'perfection in the matter' IF the reception is strong. (Reception by Triplicity Term and Face = not so strong as Sign and Exaltation.) The aspect is needed, besides the reception.

The reception is important by its presence or absence because it can describe who likes who the most, least or not at all.

Aspects describe the action and reception gives you the quality of the relationship. If there's no reception, it probably means it won't last or the querent might well come to the point where they wish they'd never had anything to do with the other person.

You mentioned that you had mutual reception in your chart - and if that's the case, that means you both have the same degree of feelings for each other - depending on what KIND of reception (ie by Sign, Exaltation etc.) There are varying degrees of quality of reception.

If you can't get what you want to know from Moon/1 ruler + 7 ruler, then it's possible to take Venus for the female and Sun for the male and to then follow the same steps.

You mention 'love.' There are many different kinds of love and this is accounted for in horary astrology by the kind of aspect with/without reception, quality of house location of significators, and condition (dignity or debility) of the planets being considered. _______
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:03 AM
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Re: love horaries

I've most recently had a recent chart with the Quesited in Querent's sign (in 3H, intercepted and in mute Pisces!) but no strong aspect, only a sextile to Moon. I wonder if this can show unexpressed "love/feeling" without being acted upon. Would love to hear opinions.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:13 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius358
If you can't get what you want to know from Moon/1 ruler + 7 ruler, then it's possible to take Venus for the female and Sun for the male and to then follow the same steps.
I'd like to add on a bit to this. You have to be careful with looking at the chart this way, it's a special, secondary consideration that cannot be viewed in relation to the whole chart. In other words, having the Sun Trine the Moon (assuming the querent is the female) doesn't mean anything. It's only the Sun and Venus who are considered in relation to one another. If Venus is moving away from the Sun, the relationship is not in a good phase, if Venus is applying to the Sun, then a relationship is more likely to work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap
I've most recently had a recent chart with the Quesited in Querent's sign (in 3H, intercepted and in mute Pisces!) but no strong aspect, only a sextile to Moon. I wonder if this can show unexpressed "love/feeling" without being acted upon. Would love to hear opinions.
You really have to be careful and very clear when it comes to receptions. You have to know who is receiving who and what the implications of that are in the horary. With your above example, it doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know for a typical love horary. If the quessited is in the querent's sign, then the querent receives them, which means that they're likely to do things that the queisted asks of them (such as agree to go out with them or do something for them, you get the idea).
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:43 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicnobi View Post
what books have love horaries ?
Please see my post re your asking about books on missing persons.
The same applies for all horary questions! _____
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:58 AM
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Re: love horaries

And there's more!

At page 305 in Lilly's Christian Astrology (CA305) - he talks of "which love most or desire it most" - he's referring to marriage which, in our day and age, refers to loving relationships with partners, generally, as well as formal marriage.

If 7 ruler is in the 1st House, this is a testimony, he says, to 'the party desired loveth best.' He then goes on to say if it's vice versa with 1 ruler in the 7th House, then the querent 'loveth best.'

If 7 ruler is in the 7th, then he says 7 ruler hasn't got much interest in the relationship and if there's no aspect from 7 ruler to 1 ruler or to Moon, then that means 'no interest' in the querent as well.

Just as there's so many variations on love and relationships in real life, though, so there are many, many variations on this theme of aspects and reception.

I must add that I agree that reception is important - particularly, it's important the way it's written and spoken about. I like to say 'Venus receives Mars by [the kind, ie Sign, Exaltn, Trip, Term and Face] and Mars receives Venus by [whatever kind.]'

This way it's easier to understand who is receiving whom. If the other party does not receive you, then there's not as much hope for the relationship as there is when there's an aspect PLUS reception between the parties.

You need Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities of the planets in CA104 to start understanding this, together with some really good articles on Reception by Skyscript's owner, Deb Houlding.__________
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:22 AM
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Re: love horaries

And quesited can be in 1st but if there's no aspect, no love outlet for that expression from what I've seen in a past chart. So much needs to come together for a yes answer.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:55 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius358 View Post
You need Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities of the planets in CA104 to start understanding this, together with some really good articles on Reception by Skyscript's owner, Deb Houlding.__________
Hi there! I'm looking at Ptolemy's table of esential dignities here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

The degrees next to the planet symbols, are those important?

For example, looking at the first row, Aries is in the terms of 6. What if Jupiter in the chart is at 17 degrees? Does the term still apply?

Thanks!
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:13 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon View Post
Hi there! I'm looking at Ptolemy's table of esential dignities here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

The degrees next to the planet symbols, are those important?

For example, looking at the first row, Aries is in the terms of 6. What if Jupiter in the chart is at 17 degrees? Does the term still apply?

Thanks!
Hi - This needs a few words to explain. Here goes:

Jupiter showing that '6' you mention means: from 0deg01' to 5deg59' - that's the first 6 degrees.

This is because 00deg01' to 00deg59' is the 1st degree.
As soon as it hits 6deg00, it is then in the 7th degree.

Having understood that, the table numbers are read like this for Terms :
Any planet at 0-0deg59 in Aries is in Jupiter's Term.
Any planet at 6deg00 to 13deg59' Aries is in Venus' Term.
Any planet at 14deg to 20deg59' Aries is in Mercury's Term.
Any planet at 21deg to 25deg59' Aries is in Mars' Term.
Any planet at 26deg to 29deg59' Aries is in Saturn's Term (the final degree being the 30th degree).

So a planet at 17 Aries is in Mercury's Term.

This means that Mercury receives the planet there by Term and the nature of this 'receiving' is considered to be like being with your kith and kin (ie relatives and family).

Having understood how the numbers/degrees work, you then have to understand the nature of the reception (ie Sign, Exaltation, etc).

Bonatti describes the nature of the reception like this:

In its Domicile (ie in its own Sign), a planet is like a 'King in his own castle' (or someone in their own home).
In its Exaltation, a planet is like an 'honoured guest'
In its Term (or sometimes called 'Bounds' in early English) is like 'a man amongst his own kith and kin (ie family)
In its Triplicity (or trigon its sometimes referred to) is like a man amongst allies (ie people who will help you - they like you but they're not family)
and
In its Face is 'like a man in an alien society but possessing a skill required by that society.' (ie you're welcome but only because you can do something maybe to help. Face is the weakest of all the reception-natures.)

Hope that's helpful.
Cheers.__________
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:05 PM
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Re: love horaries

Hi Aquarius358,

Thanks for your detailed explanation

I knew I'd got something mixed up there - so the number next to does not refer to the degree in a sign that Jupiter is positioned. Glad I got this one right now

I'm pretty sure it was a typo, but you meant:
Any planet at 0-5deg59 in Aries is in Jupiter's Term ?

If I'm not mistaken, Triplicity is stronger than Term?

Also, under the Triplicity there's two columns - D and N (Day and Night?). This might sound really silly but how do I know for sure whether a chart is a daytime chart or nighttime chart, considering the different time zones?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:50 PM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon View Post
Hi Aquarius358,
Thanks for your detailed explanation
I knew I'd got something mixed up there - so the number next to does not refer to the degree in a sign that Jupiter is positioned. Glad I got this one right now
I'm pretty sure it was a typo, but you meant:
Any planet at 0-5deg59 in Aries is in Jupiter's Term ?
Oops, yes I did. Thanks for pointing that out!

If I'm not mistaken, Triplicity is stronger than Term?
Yes, generally speaking.

Also, under the Triplicity there's two columns - D and N (Day and Night?). Yes.

This might sound really silly but how do I know for sure whether a chart is a daytime chart or nighttime chart, considering the different time zones?
A night chart is one that is drawn up for a time after sunset until sunrise for whatever location the question is asked in. Here on the Forum, we take whatever chart (and hence time zone and location) the poster/querent has posted.

As a practising horary astrologer though, you could either take the location (and time zone) for the querent if they're in a different country OR you could do as many (most?) horary astrologers do, and that is to put the question up for the time and location of you, the astrologer - and when you've understood it. This last is the method recommended by Lilly and the earlier astrologers. But those teaching the horary courses usually advise students of horary to try both and see which works best for them. Some of the things to concern you could be, for instance, if the querent doesn't tell you the background to the question and you need to have a dialogue with them in order to determine just exactly what it is that they're asking.
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:39 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagSunScorpMoon
Also, under the Triplicity there's two columns - D and N (Day and Night?). This might sound really silly but how do I know for sure whether a chart is a daytime chart or nighttime chart, considering the different time zones?
A chart is diurnal if the Sun is above the horizon (in a chart, if the Sun is in houses 12-7, it's above the horizon which is marked by the line that the Ascen/Descen axis is on), it's nocturnal if it's below the horizon (or in houses 1-6).

For Twlight charts, consider if the Sun is more than a degree and a half under the Descen or above the Ascen.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: love horaries

Thanks to both Aquarius358 and KnS!

I just wanted to clarify one more thing - I've been doing too much reading lately and am confusing the hell out of myself

I'm trying to understand how reception works in a love horary chart by referrign to Ptolemy's table.

I will give a few examples and please tell me whether I'm interpreting this right or wrong.

Example 1
Female is Mercury at 3 degree of Aries; Male is Jupiter at 17 degrees of Taurus.
Based on Ptolemy's table, we can say:
Mercury is in Jupiter's term, hence the guy likes her.
Jupiter is not received by Mercury, hence she's indifferent about him.

Example 2
Female is Venus at 7 degree of Virgo; Male is Mars at 2 degree of Libra
Based on Ptolemy's table, we can say:
Mars does not receive Venus hence he's indifferent about her.

But here's the confusing part!!! I'm pretty sure I've seen half a dozen of charts like that and the interpretation is: The guy loves her because he (Mars) is in the sign she (Venus) rules, regardless of what sign Venus is actually in.

So how does this work? It's driving me crazy
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 PM
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Re: love horaries

Modern ideas of reception creep into things pretty easily. I'll link you to a post I did a couple of days ago about this very topic.

Hope it helps.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Modern ideas of reception creep into things pretty easily. I'll link you to a post I did a couple of days ago about this very topic.

Hope it helps.
Thanks KnS. I've just quickly read your post (getting ready for work in the morning at the same time ) and it seems like the way I interpreted example 1 is correct. So Saturn in Libra doesn't mean Saturn loves Venus or Saturn accepts Venus but rather, Venus is willing to do whatever Saturn wants to do?

Sometimes I also find it confusing when interpreting my own charts where everything else fits but the way feelings flow doesn't.

For example, example 1 is based on my own chart and it seems to indicate that the guy is more willing than me but it doesn't feel that way (or I wouldn't have had to create a chart in the first place).

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Old 05-04-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: love horaries

Well...I'm about to blow your mind here.

About your first example, it's likely that the terms you're using are incorrect. There's a big hub-bub about using Ptolemy's terms because there are apparently a couple of different tables that are credited to Ptolemy and no one is really sure which one is the original. Most traditional astrologers use the Egyptian terms (there's only ever been one set of those) and it's possible that in that system Jupiter is not in Mercury's terms.

Secondly, Term is a very weak type of reception that can't really be counted on to accomplish anything by itself. I believe term shows someone that is "about to be cast out of doors", which could explain his attitude towards you after all.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:28 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Well...I'm about to blow your mind here.

About your first example, it's likely that the terms you're using are incorrect. There's a big hub-bub about using Ptolemy's terms because there are apparently a couple of different tables that are credited to Ptolemy and no one is really sure which one is the original. Most traditional astrologers use the Egyptian terms (there's only ever been one set of those) and it's possible that in that system Jupiter is not in Mercury's terms.

Secondly, Term is a very weak type of reception that can't really be counted on to accomplish anything by itself. I believe term shows someone that is "about to be cast out of doors", which could explain his attitude towards you after all.
Oh! Well i used the one that posted the link to earlier in the thread.

But then based on that, if he is about to cast me out of doors ( he probably already did by the time that chart was erected!), then shouldn't I have already kicked him out considering my planet Mercury is even less fond of Jupiter! By the way, I'm Mercury, he's Jupiter.

Regarding the Egyptian terms, i found one here, I'm assuming this is the one most traditional astrologers use?
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig3.html

Now i'm assuming this chart works the same way as Ptolemy's chart?
So, any planet in the first 6 degrees (0 degree - 5degree59mins) of Aries is in the Term of Jupiter? I.e. they are received by Jupiter by Term?

What do the numbers in brackets mean?

Last edited by SagSunScorpioMoon; 05-04-2012 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:25 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Oh! Well i used the one that posted the link to earlier in the thread.

But then based on that, if he is about to cast me out of doors ( he probably already did by the time that chart was erected!), then shouldn't I have already kicked him out considering my planet Mercury is even less fond of Jupiter! By the way, I'm Mercury, he's Jupiter.
Typically yes, but something I've noticed is that the querent's significator usually won't receive the queisted. It's kind of strange because you would think they would, but they just don't seem to a lot. I'm not sure what this could really mean other than the querent's feelings for the queisted is probably already obvious and not the subject of the question.

Yes, the Egyptian Terms are used the same way as the others. The numbers in brackets refer to the actual degrees of the Sign the planet's term ends at. Venus takes the 6 degrees after Jupiter's 6, so hers end at 12° Aries, then Mercury takes the next 8° after Venus's to reach 20° and so on.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:58 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon View Post
...
Regarding the Egyptian terms, i found one here, I'm assuming this is the one most traditional astrologers use?
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig3.html

Now i'm assuming this chart works the same way as Ptolemy's chart?
So, any planet in the first 6 degrees (0 degree - 5degree59mins) of Aries is in the Term of Jupiter? I.e. they are received by Jupiter by Term?

What do the numbers in brackets mean?
This may help - There's a Table of Essential Dignities (Egyptian) at the Academy of Astrology website : www.academyofastrology.org

The way Helena Avelar & Luis Ribeiro have put it up there might help to read it a bit more easily:
It seems the Egyptian Table uses exactly the same order of planets for the 5 sections within Terms : ie Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, Mars and Saturn as Lilly does. For Aries, a greater number of degrees is given to Mercury and cuts off a couple of degrees from Venus (which is interesting!)

In ARIES then, using their table you can see:
0deg - 5deg59 = Jupiter's Term
6deg - 11deg59 = Venus' Term
12 deg - 19deg59 = Mercury's Term
20 deg - 24deg59 = Mars' Term
25 deg - 29deg59 = Saturn's Term.

I wonder if anyone's done any research comparing the two Tables of Essential Dignities and the subtle difference in the number of degrees in the Term allocated affecting an outcome??? Mmmm ...!_________

Last edited by Aquarius358; 05-04-2012 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:08 AM
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Re: love horaries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon;385981
...
But here's the confusing part!!! I'm pretty sure I've seen half a dozen of charts like that and the interpretation is: The guy loves her because he (Mars) is in the sign she (Venus) rules, regardless of what sign Venus is actually in.
So how does this work? It's driving me crazy
Hi, Everybody’s got a way of talking about reception - and I defend their right to do that ... BUT ... the wording is so important, I reckon: ie it’s clearer to say “Planet X receives Planet Y” (rather than “Planet Y is received by Planet X”). This distinction is important, I think, because active language is easier to understand.

I don’t think ‘power’ or ‘control’ of one party over the other is involved in Reception - especially in relationship questions, I believe it’s feelings.

So ... if Planet X receives Planet Y and Planet Y receives Planet X (called “mutual reception”) -

- BY SIGN (ie in "domicile") this signifies they both have a genuine / strong liking for each other. The best. Love. Strong love. The overwhelming feeling ‘I don’t want to live without this person’ stuff. The grand passion. Willing to commit to a serious relationship. [Give it a + 10]

- BY EXALTATION signifies they put each other on a pedestal / over the moon about each other, but it also usually involves 'expectations' - perhaps too many expectations which could mean the relationship will not last. Not always necessarily doomed to ultimate failure tho ... it could still lead to a serious commitment but it’s more an infatuation than the ultimate grand passion. [Give it a + 8]

- BY TRIPLICITY signifies they think of each other in a lesser way than by Sign & Exaltn - best described as a kind of liking and helpfulness but nothing like real love. This could be for many reasons - including the fact that they’re a cautious person by nature. Maybe you like them as mates and are willing to hang out but definitely not the Real Thing. [Give it a + 5]

- BY TERM signifies they both have lesser or weaker feelings that are just ... tolerating each other. Not willing to spend much time on the relationship. [Give it a +3 or 4]

- BY FACE, signifies well, practically nothing at all. Very little emotion attached to the relationship. No commitment at all. [Give it +1 or 2.]

If, however, there’s a MIX of reception, then ONE party will have something like the feelings above described.

THE ASPECT that must go with Reception is necessary to indicate whether or not some action is likely to be taken or that there’s a chance of the parties getting together in a physical sense - not necessarily for sex, but at least for a coffee. The aspect is essential, I guess, because if planets can’t ‘see’ each other, be within each other’s influence, how can they ‘receive’ each other?! or make their ‘reception’ or feelings known to the other?

Just some thoughts ...______
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