Is sun-conjunct mars an indicator of courage?

[Backtothaessence]

What would be the biggest indicators of courage and cowardice in a birth chart? The Mars-sun relations is my only guess...

[R4VEN]

Mars-Sun can be courageous, but can just as easily be foolhardy and careless. My ex-husband has the Sun-Mars conjunction - in Sagi in the 1st house. He was anything but courageous - a coward IMO, but I won't go into that - but he'd take unnecessary risks. This was when he was young. As a man now in his 60's he's far more cautious, but he's still not in any way courageous.

Mars trine Pluto grants courage in the native. I have known a few people with this placement and all have had to develop strength and courage early in life - often without the benefit of a lot of support from others.

Also Jupiter trine Pluto can be courageous and strong/reliable if they face the challenges their lives will bring them. Ultimately they have to learn to get off their high horse and live their lives at ground level, side to side with everyone else. The person with this aspect can become a courageous leader.

[sequestra]

Interesting question essence, as I also wonder how many different configurations the elusive state of courage can encompass.

Originally Posted by R4VEN

Mars-Sun can be courageous, but can just as easily be foolhardy and careless. My ex-husband has the Sun-Mars conjunction - in Sagi in the 1st house. He was anything but courageous - a coward IMO, but I won't go into that - but he'd take unnecessary risks. This was when he was young. As a man now in his 60's he's far more cautious, but he's still not in any way courageous.

Yes! My ex had a 1st house aries stellium (sun, ascendant, venus, mars) all tightly conjunct and he would just jump straight into things with little to no provocation. Perpetually spoiling for a fight, he would seek them out in the most innocuous situations! Sometimes it was awesome though, because he could really fight HARD for the underdog, and was prepared to remedy injustices that others were too fearful to broach. I certainly do believe there is courage with sun/mars, but then it can also be so innate in these individuals that it responds entirely reflexively, with no forethought; i.e. foolhardiness.

As a somewhat impotent mars in pisces person myself, I am reminded of the phrase instilled by my mother from an early age, in her attempt to help me through my vast assemblage of neurotic phobias: "Courage is not the absence of fear, but going ahead in spite of the fear" - I believe this to be a truth that holds a fair bit of wisdom. Courage comes in many forms.

Originally Posted by R4VEN

Mars trine Pluto grants courage in the native. I have known a few people with this placement and all have had to develop strength and courage early in life - often without the benefit of a lot of support from others.

Do you think this only applies to the trine? None of the harsher aspects?

Originally Posted by R4VEN

Also Jupiter trine Pluto can be courageous and strong/reliable if they face the challenges their lives will bring them. Ultimately they have to learn to get off their high horse and live their lives at ground level, side to side with everyone else. The person with this aspect can become a courageous leader.

This would apply to mars trine jupiter too I imagine - I would love to have that aspect!

[Backtothaessence]

Thanks again R4Ven! and Sequestra!

Very interesting! unfortunately my Sun-Mars are Square and so is my Mars-Pluto! would that make me fearful? At least I have the Trine Jupiter-Pluto-even though I'm sure that aspect is probably less potent than the previous combos..

Sequestra, I agree...foolishness is not the same as bravery. Naivety is the lack of fear through inexperience.

Herman Mellville once said, "Familiarity with danger makes a brave man braver but less daring."

I once felt like I had to prove my own courage by walking across Iceland alone (I almost got really hurt the first stretch and had to return to Reykjavik but at least walked about 1/4 of the height of the country , at this point I still feel like I'm not brave enough. I have trouble getting an idea of what I am regarding these things so I turn to astrology and things of the like to find self-awareness.

Would these reflect some how in a chart?

astro_w2gw_01_paul_espinoza_hp.67498.16599.gif

[gaer]

It seems to me that by itself Sun/Mars aspects are likely too boost competiveness, assertiveness, etc., but the kind of aspect would point to control or lack of it. For instance, a trine should add stability, so smooth power, but a conjunction would point towards explosiveness, a square even more so. With a hard aspect it would have to be mastered, the energy.

You would have to look at way more than this one aspect to get an idea of whether a person would be brave, or just obnoxious, or worse.

[sequestra]

Quite an aspected mars there, strongly flanked by the sun/pluto squares, though in accidental fall being in the 7th. Opposes the ascendant and hence conjunct descendant - do you find yourself attracted to martial types, i.e. courage/toughness being a trait you deeply admire in others?

I can't help but think the mars square pluto would never feel like it's doing enough, irrespective of however many challenges it has mastered - I can imagine it feeling that there are always more walls to break down. And the semisquare to neptune implies doubt of one's own capacities in this area. Add to that the square to the MC and I wonder if you are particularly concerned with others perceiving you in this manner. The MC bit is entirely you feeling like you needed to prove it, imo.

I get the impression it would be a highly dynamic and inventive sort of mars given all of its influences, namely being in aquarius sextile that uranus. Hell I'd swap you mine

[Dobrev]

Originally Posted by R4VEN

Mars-Sun can be courageous, but can just as easily be foolhardy and careless. My ex-husband has the Sun-Mars conjunction - in Sagi in the 1st house. He was anything but courageous - a coward IMO, but I won't go into that - but he'd take unnecessary risks. This was when he was young. As a man now in his 60's he's far more cautious, but he's still not in any way courageous.

Mars trine Pluto grants courage in the native. I have known a few people with this placement and all have had to develop strength and courage early in life - often without the benefit of a lot of support from others.

Also Jupiter trine Pluto can be courageous and strong/reliable if they face the challenges their lives will bring them. Ultimately they have to learn to get off their high horse and live their lives at ground level, side to side with everyone else. The person with this aspect can become a courageous leader.

Hi, just wondering, would jupiter pluto conjunction be about courage as well?

[Lin]

I'm wondering if we should first define "bravery".

It is said, "discretion is the better part of valor."

I think there are many ways we, who feel we are not brave enough, we would risk our lives or purse under the right circumstances.
I would stand in front of a speeding car for the sake of my children or grandchildren.

And I was called brave when I left both my marriages without knowing how I would live.
But I felt it was the only long term right thing for me to do and had nothing to do with courage.
In the extreme circumstance, we find out how much "faith" we have in ourselve and providence.
LIN

[Moog]

The Indians tend to assign courage to the third house.

If the Sun and Mars are very close, Mars would be combust, generally thought to be a debility in traditional astrologies.

[Backtothaessence]

Lin! good hearing from you!

Yes that's what I mean. Inner strength and courage not foolish riskiness.
Not many people know about my life or whatever I've gone through as friends come every now and then (I'm very selective) and that I'm an only child. I don't hear much about my temperament or my strengths so I was just curious about aspects in my chart that show potential for inner fortitude or cowardice. :]

I don't have much fire in there so I assume I'm not really cut-out for being brave. :-/

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Backtothaessence

I don't have much fire in there so I assume I'm not really cut-out for being brave. :-/

Everyone has the potential for bravery IMO. Even the wateriest of watery people can be brave when faced with inescapable challenge.

I think that a lot of what we think of as `bravery' is down to Jupiter and its sign, placement, aspects, etc. Jupiter describes, among other things, what we believe. If we believe that it is our job to get ourselves out of the jam we may have had a part in creating, then to face it and deal with it (risking failure and humiliation) is an act of bravery. You don't have to climb Mt Everest to be brave. A single parent who gets up each morning and gets her kids off to school with food in their stomachs and clothes on their backs before going to work herself is an act of bravery.

WordWeb defines `courage' as "A quality of spirit that enables you to face danger or pain without showing fear". One of the synonyms for courage is bravery. I have a problem with the `without showing fear' part. I think to acknowledge fear, but to forge ahead anyway is only human.

[Backtothaessence]

Cool! So your (as I see in your chart) sag in jupiter adds a fiery influence on how well you get yourself 'out of a problem you created for yourself'? Considering I have Pisces does that mean I'd be more submissive to the problems I've created?

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Backtothaessence

Cool! So your (as I see in your chart) sag in jupiter adds a fiery influence on how well you get yourself 'out of a problem you created for yourself'? Considering I have Pisces does that mean I'd be more submissive to the problems I've created?

My Jupiter in its own sign (also trining PLuto) gives me a very strong belief system. Whatever it is I believe, I believe it with my whole being. Now, I could quite easily believe in `everyone for themselves', or `only the fittest should be able to survive', or `those with the most money are the best and the strongest'. Were I to believe that, then my actions would support that. ........but my resultant actions may well be underhand or unkind - which is perhaps does not count as being `brave'.

Now, you have Jupiter in Pisces (also trining Sun, Venus and Pluto) so your belief system supports compassionate and charitable acts. You may act in a calm, kind, but determined way - which in certain circumstances is brave/courageous, especially if you are facing opposition from others.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to be fiery in order to be brave. Too much fire can lead a person to being foolhardy.

[Carris]

Thats true - courage is not always about being fiery. The greatest courage can be emotional and spiritual rather than physical and aggressive. Having a stable, steady, calm cool mind in the face of outer turmoil, being strong like a rock, having perseverance and endurance in the face of failure - can be the best type of courage. So even a strong saturn can give this type of courage rather than the military attacking warlike type.

[Backtothaessence]

I see! And when you guys talk about a "strong saturn" or a strong planet what does that mean? My saturn is in sagittarius, but from what I understand or am thinking is that sag is not ruled by saturn so it wouldn't be a "strong" saturn??

or maybe would a planet be strong if it was conjunct with other planets...?:]

If that was the case...the influence on one planet by a sign that is conjunct with other planets would make its influence on that planet stronger??

[Carris]

Originally Posted by Backtothaessence

I see! And when you guys talk about a "strong saturn" or a strong planet what does that mean? My saturn is in sagittarius, but from what I understand or am thinking is that sag is not ruled by saturn so it wouldn't be a "strong" saturn??

or maybe would a planet be strong if it was conjunct with other planets...?:]

If that was the case...the influence on one planet by a sign that is conjunct with other planets would make its influence on that planet stronger??

Saturn would be strong if conjunct one of the angles - and maybe in a sign more in tune with its characteristics of stability.

[wan]

Originally Posted by sequestra

Interesting question essence, as I also wonder how many different configurations the elusive state of courage can encompass.



Yes! My ex had a 1st house aries stellium (sun, ascendant, venus, mars) all tightly conjunct and he would just jump straight into things with little to no provocation. Perpetually spoiling for a fight, he would seek them out in the most innocuous situations! Sometimes it was awesome though, because he could really fight HARD for the underdog, and was prepared to remedy injustices that others were too fearful to broach. I certainly do believe there is courage with sun/mars, but then it can also be so innate in these individuals that it responds entirely reflexively, with no forethought; i.e. foolhardiness.

As a somewhat impotent mars in pisces person myself, I am reminded of the phrase instilled by my mother from an early age, in her attempt to help me through my vast assemblage of neurotic phobias: "Courage is not the absence of fear, but going ahead in spite of the fear" - I believe this to be a truth that holds a fair bit of wisdom. Courage comes in many forms.



Do you think this only applies to the trine? None of the harsher aspects?



This would apply to mars trine jupiter too I imagine - I would love to have that aspect!

Girl, you speak GOOD English. Also, you look like Angelina Jolie.

[tokyo.lights]

Originally Posted by Backtothaessence

What would be the biggest indicators of courage and cowardice in a birth chart? The Mars-sun relations is my only guess...

Good lord no lol. I imagine they'd be extra defensive over their ego/identity. Perhaps Mars in the 11th might be more courageous in a humanitarian sense? The Sun is too self concerned, I wouldn't personally tie it with courage.

[sequestra]

Originally Posted by wan

Girl, you speak GOOD English. Also, you look like Angelina Jolie.

Ahaha! Thank you! I love your signature btw (:

[*emma*]

I have a cousin with this aspect in cancer. I would describe her as assertive, self motivated, undaunted, generally driven, doesnt take any BS, but she does have some sagitarius and pluto with it in her chart. Nice qualities but sometimes she goes on and on about the same thing and hence wasting the energy which is needed to actually deal with the things she feels passionately about.

Courage? Absolutely no doubt. Same with the square aspect.

[Backtothaessence]

So sun in Scorpio and Mars in Aquarius would have the same effect?

[Erickaf]

Well my brothers both have Sun-Mars in Cancer conjunction, they are very aggressive and assertive. I won't say they are courageous, not in my definition of courageous. I define courageous as someone who is fearless and brave in spirit. My brothers are not, they are very insecure and would be traumatized by drastic changes in their life. They see everything as difficult!
But when it comes to confrontation, they are not scared. They love it.

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by Backtothaessence

What would be the biggest indicators of courage and cowardice in a birth chart? The Mars-sun relations is my only guess...

Just thinking out loud here.

The word "courage" come from the Anglo-French word for heart, "coer." The Sun and the sign it rules, Leo, are about heart. So I think the key indicator for courage is the condition of the Sun: its sign, house placement, aspects. Then the other planets can empower or obstruct. Clearly, Mars in initiating Aries, the warrior can give energy to going forward; Mars in fixed Scorpio can give intensity, power; Jupiter can amplify...

[Lin]

Essence, I think the fixed signs....and especially Aquarius, are very hesitant to stick their necks out unless there's a **** good reason.
It's funny, but you have Sun in Scorpio square a Leo Asc and I have Sun in Leo square a Scorpio ascendant....
But it stops there...I have all my planets between the 7th and 11th....nothing in the 4th but the s.node.
Your 4th house is quite 'heavy' and I'm wondering what your first memories are?
And how far back do you remember?
If you don't mind sharing this....
LIN

[bittermoon]

Originally Posted by Erickaf

Well my brothers both have Sun-Mars in Cancer conjunction, they are very aggressive and assertive. I won't say they are courageous, not in my definition of courageous. I define courageous as someone who is fearless and brave in spirit. My brothers are not, they are very insecure and would be traumatized by drastic changes in their life. They see everything as difficult!
But when it comes to confrontation, they are not scared. They love it.

i recognise this. my ex-hb has this same configuration. not liking this in cancer, at all. having said that, i dated somebody else after this and he had the conjunction in aries, which can make for a really pushy bstrd.