Conjunctions with Planets That Aren't Conjunct

[Talaria]

I'm a little conflicted about the interpretations of conjunctions in natal charts when one planet is within the orb of conjunction to two planets that aren't. For example, the Sun is conjunct Jupiter and Venus, but Venus is ahead of the Sun and Jupiter is behind it, so they are not close enough to be considered conjunct to each other. Thus far, I've been looking at this configuration as Sun conjunct Venus and Sun conjunct Jupiter, without having Venus conjunct Jupiter. Any thoughts on whether that's accurate or not? Technically the planets aren't blending together, but if both planets are blending with a third, aren't they also blending with each other by proxy? Or should I stick with "Ego blends with romance, ego blends with business, romance does not blend with business," as I am?

[Inconjunct]

Originally Posted by Talaria

I'm a little conflicted about the interpretations of conjunctions in natal charts when one planet is within the orb of conjunction to two planets that aren't. For example, the Sun is conjunct Jupiter and Venus, but Venus is ahead of the Sun and Jupiter is behind it, so they are not close enough to be considered conjunct to each other. Thus far, I've been looking at this configuration as Sun conjunct Venus and Sun conjunct Jupiter, without having Venus conjunct Jupiter. Any thoughts on whether that's accurate or not? Technically the planets aren't blending together, but if both planets are blending with a third, aren't they also blending with each other by proxy? Or should I stick with "Ego blends with romance, ego blends with business, romance does not blend with business," as I am?

Yes, in terms of aspects and orbs, they are two separate aspects. However, without wishing to bang my drum any more than I usually do, it could be that the Sun is on the midpoint of Venus and Jupiter, and you could interpret it in that way, using a midpoint analysis.

[persephone5]

I have this as well.

Sun is conjunct to venus.
Sun is conjunct to Jupiter.
But venus and jupiter are a touch too far.

Same with mercury instead of sun.

But in my case, sun, merc and jupiter are scorpio and venus is sag so I imagine the conjunctions aren't as strong? I know some people discount or say those out of sign aspects are weakened,and others don't. If its mathematical, then it shouldn't be weakened, right?

I feel similar to having venus conj jupiter anyway since my venus is in sag. Maybe it would have been overload if I also had the two planets in conjunction! Too much of a good thing...

[persephone5]

Originally Posted by Inconjunct

Yes, in terms of aspects and orbs, they are two separate aspects. However, without wishing to bang my drum any more than I usually do, it could be that the Sun is on the midpoint of Venus and Jupiter, and you could interpret it in that way, using a midpoint analysis.

I still don't really get mid-points.

Can you explain how they are useful, or used? How they work? Thanks (feel free to direct me to a link)

:-)

[Inconjunct]

Originally Posted by persephone5

I still don't really get mid-points.

Can you explain how they are useful, or used? How they work? Thanks (feel free to direct me to a link)

:-)

Midpoints are another way in which planets, points and angles interact. The midpoint is literally the point in the middle between two planets. So, say you have Sun at 10 degrees Taurus and Jupiter at 20 degrees Taurus, the Sun/Jupiter midpoint would be 15 degrees Taurus as that is midway between the two. This represents a sensitive area where the two energies combine.

Every planet, point and angle as a midpoint with every other planet, point and angle. What activates those midpoints is contact, by aspect, with a third planet, point or angle. Ebertin - the man who wrote a great deal about midpoints as part of his approach to astrology called "cosmobiology" - allows for only conjunctions, squares and oppositions. Uranian astrology, another form of astrology which originated in Germany in the 30s, also uses semi-squares and a 22 deg 30 min aspect. When three planets etc interact in this way, you get a midpoint or planetary picture which can be used for analysis.

So in our hypothetical example above, if Uranus was at 15 degrees Scorpio, it would be in opposition to the midpoint between Sun and Jupiter and would therefore form a midpoint picture with the Sun and Jupiter that would be expressed Uranus = Sun/Jupiter (or you might see UR=SU/JU or of course = /)

There's more here: -

http://cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/midpoints.html

Hope that helps

[persephone5]

Inconjunct--

Yes, thank you! I am reading that link now :-)

So, my sun/moon midpoint is 28 degrees sag.

My venus/mars midpoint is 24.22 sag. My natal neptune is at 25'44 sag. Would it count as a midpoint for either of them? I ask partly because my neptune does almost zip in my chart.

[MaeMae]

I always view aspects to the planets in stelliums as a conjunctive aspect, because the character qualities of sign are among their own and familiarity breeds liking and cooperation. they will work in each other's favor.
consider transits to those planets, boom boom boom boom ~ the energy is reinforced.

[Inconjunct]

Originally Posted by persephone5

Inconjunct--

Yes, thank you! I am reading that link now :-)

So, my sun/moon midpoint is 28 degrees sag.

My venus/mars midpoint is 24.22 sag. My natal neptune is at 25'44 sag. Would it count as a midpoint for either of them? I ask partly because my neptune does almost zip in my chart.

From that it would seem that you have the midpoint picture = /

Orbs for aspects to midpoints should be kept tight - Dan McBroom, author of Midpoints suggests no more than 2 degrees for squares and oppositions, add another 30 minutes for conjunctions.

[Lin]

Yeah, as MaeMae said, this is one of those "exceptions to the rule"..... if a third planet is between 2 other planets, they are considered as working, more or less, together - but again, it's a case by case issue.

To make it even more complicated, if another planet in the chart is in within an aspect to any of the planets in a stellium, it is usually considered aspected to all of them.
This is why we have to do a case by case study. There are always times when this doesn't work....as when the planets span 2 houses ...or 2 signs...
LIN

[stainedBlue]

Originally Posted by Lin

Yeah, as MaeMae said, this is one of those "exceptions to the rule"..... if a third planet is between 2 other planets, they are considered as working, more or less, together - but again, it's a case by case issue.

To make it even more complicated, if another planet in the chart is in within an aspect to any of the planets in a stellium, it is usually considered aspected to all of them.
This is why we have to do a case by case study. There are always times when this doesn't work....as when the planets span 2 houses ...or 2 signs...
LIN

Is there a proper term for this occurrence of conjunction by proxy?

[MJ82]

To make it even more complicated, if another planet in the chart is in within an aspect to any of the planets in a stellium, it is usually considered aspected to all of them.

That's interesting, never heard that before. Not to hijack this thread but, for the sake of elaboration, can I ask - is this a widely held view among astrologers?

I have a stellium in the 8th for instance, am I right in thinking that going by this principle, any planet in my chart that aspects one of these planets is in turn in some kind of relationship with the other planets in the stellium?

And lastly - would this only apply if ALL of the planets in that stellium are conjunct one another?

Thanks.

[MJ82]

And for a wide stellium where the planets are not all conjunct one another, so let's say in my case: Pluto, Saturn, Mars, Moon (Pluto - Saturn are conjunct, Pluto - Mars, Saturn - Mars + Moon only conjunct Mars), does this mean that my Moon is slightly affected by both Saturn and Pluto as well via the shared conjunction to Mars, even though not in aspect by orb?

[persephone5]

Originally Posted by Inconjunct

From that it would seem that you have the midpoint picture = /

Orbs for aspects to midpoints should be kept tight - Dan McBroom, author of Midpoints suggests no more than 2 degrees for squares and oppositions, add another 30 minutes for conjunctions.

I figured 2 degrees might be the cutoff. Thanks :-)

I don't think I have many in my chart, but at first glance it would appear probable since I have a cluster of planets in the middle and then two on eitherside of that middle group.

so would a neptune midpoint between venus and mars indicate something otherworldly, spiritual ect involving relationships or...?

[MaeMae]

Originally Posted by MJ82

That's interesting, never heard that before. Not to hijack this thread but, for the sake of elaboration, can I ask - is this a widely held view among astrologers?

I have a stellium in the 8th for instance, am I right in thinking that going by this principle, any planet in my chart that aspects one of these planets is in turn in some kind of relationship with the other planets in the stellium?

And lastly - would this only apply if ALL of the planets in that stellium are conjunct one another?

Thanks.

it depends whom you ask.
i think of a 3-or-4 or more stellium as a mobile of sorts. the hanging pieces are different lengths and sizes but when you wiggle one, they all start moving.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Talaria

I'm a little conflicted about the interpretations of conjunctions in natal charts when one planet is within the orb of conjunction to two planets that aren't. For example, the Sun is conjunct Jupiter and Venus, but Venus is ahead of the Sun and Jupiter is behind it, so they are not close enough to be considered conjunct to each other. Thus far, I've been looking at this configuration as Sun conjunct Venus and Sun conjunct Jupiter, without having Venus conjunct Jupiter. Any thoughts on whether that's accurate or not? Technically the planets aren't blending together, but if both planets are blending with a third, aren't they also blending with each other by proxy? Or should I stick with "Ego blends with romance, ego blends with business, romance does not blend with business," as I am?

So you are saying that Venus is not conjunct with Jupiter? There is no connection but Sun may be the midpoint. So tied in, in that way. If you look up sites that deal with midpoints it may give you more of an answer.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by MaeMae

it depends whom you ask.
i think of a 3-or-4 or more stellium as a mobile of sorts. the hanging pieces are different lengths and sizes but when you wiggle one, they all start moving.

I dont agree. Even those that are in conjunction with each other dont necessarily all aspect the same planets elsewhere. Thankfully they are not like mobiles, that would be too much for any human to handle especially if they reside in the 8th as mine do.
Transits set off influences in our charts and they may trigger different planets as they go along but not all at once.

[Inconjunct]

Originally Posted by MJ82

And for a wide stellium where the planets are not all conjunct one another, so let's say in my case: Pluto, Saturn, Mars, Moon (Pluto - Saturn are conjunct, Pluto - Mars, Saturn - Mars + Moon only conjunct Mars), does this mean that my Moon is slightly affected by both Saturn and Pluto as well via the shared conjunction to Mars, even though not in aspect by orb?

I would say no. A stellium is just a collection of planets in one sign/house. It places an emphasis on that sign/house, and while some of the planets may be in conjunction and may therefore share aspects, not all of them will. The rules about orbs aren't suspended for a stellium. There may be some relationship via midpoints, however.

[Lin]

mj82- I can see why you ask. that Moon is problematic. But the 2 planets at 26 degrees (Neptune & Merc) while aspecting some of those planets does not aspect the moon. In fact, the I find it telling that those planets are at 26 and not, let's say, 22 or 24 - because then there would be some question as to whether the moon is involved. But it's sort of karmic that they are just far enough away to NOT be involved.

However, to show you how it could work....say your Sun was at 20 Aries....it would oppose all the planets in Libra, even tho the moon would be technically out of orb.

This is WHY you must use a chart by chart study.

For transits: obviously for any transit all the planets in the stellium will be aspected eventually....even Pluto....which is now square your moon. It won't be long till you begin to feel it activating your Jupiter, even tho it will be a long time till Pluto actually squares your Jupiter.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by MaeMae

I always view aspects to the planets in stelliums as a conjunctive aspect, because the character qualities of sign are among their own and familiarity breeds liking and cooperation. they will work in each other's favor.
consider transits to those planets, boom boom boom boom ~ the energy is reinforced.

The stellium planets may be in the same sign but that doesnt make them compatible with each other. Venus in Libra is in natural sign but Mars in Libra is not and in detriment, for instance. They dont work in each other's favour but can actually be in conflict with their energies.