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  #1  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Macattaq Macattaq is offline
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Everything...is upside down

Hi everyone, if any of you can take a moment to give me even some quick thoughts, I'd really appreciate it. I'll post the chart first, then tell you what's going on with me.




-----

So, I'm finishing up my third year of law school. I'll graduate on May 12th, and be done with formal education forever. But the job search doesn't look too good, there aren't many legal jobs out there and my grades are mediocre at best. I'm applying for jobs that are quasi legal or where the position is that of a paralegal, so I can at least get something lined up for after the bar exam in July. But here, there is no certainty whatsoever about what may happen.

I'm engaged. She's turning 30 at the beginning of next month, May 3rd. I recently moved out of the apartment we shared and into a room in a house. We're still together. She decided that she needed to have more space, and because of my student status, I was a financial burden. For my part, it works out better because I can focus on finishing school and taking the bar exam. The plan is for us to live separately until I find a job. She's busy rediscovering her independence now that I've moved, which is good. But I'm worried that this may be just the beginning of Neptune and Chiron passing through the 8th.

And financially, I've got barely enough to make things work. My family is helping me out tons, and it makes me feel ****** that they are doing so.

So that's basically what's going on with me right now. Any insights or suggestions would go a long way toward helping me get a better understanding of what is occurring in my life right now. Thank you!

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Old 04-12-2012, 02:16 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

Well, I'm still pretty new to offering an opinion, but if I did, I'd be less inclined to look at Chiron and Neptune and more inclined to consider that nifty Saturn return you're experiencing right now.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:29 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I was looking online at some different explanations for what is going on in my 3rd/4th. It was a bit too complex for me to understand, especially with natal Saturn hanging out in a semi-cusp space between the 3rd/4th and about to be directly affected by a passing Saturn.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:38 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I was looking online at some different explanations for what is going on in my 3rd/4th. It was a bit too complex for me to understand, especially with natal Saturn hanging out in a semi-cusp space between the 3rd/4th and about to be directly affected by a passing Saturn.
I'm not sure what you mean by semi-cusp space. When Saturn transits the angles, it's usually a major ouch. Because you do have natal Saturn in the 4th, it means you get to experience the growing up that comes with your Saturn return at the same time Saturn is about to transit through your 4th house, opposing your 10th. Double ouch. Were you able to find much information on the nature of Saturn transits?

What part of what you read seemed complex? The members here are pretty good at answering questions.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:42 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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.....especially with natal Saturn hanging out in a semi-cusp space between the 3rd/4th and about to be directly affected by a passing Saturn.
Ever use whole sign houses? http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html

There are more than forty different house systems and astro.com offers fourteen of them on the "Extended Chart Selection" page. Whole Signs is available amongst those fourteen. With whole signs there are no intercepted houses... experiment with creating your chart in whole signs and you'll get a clear visual of my meaning
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:48 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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I'm not sure what you mean by semi-cusp space. When Saturn transits the angles, it's usually a major ouch. Because you do have natal Saturn in the 4th, it means you get to experience the growing up that comes with your Saturn return at the same time Saturn is about to transit through your 4th house, opposing your 10th. Double ouch. Were you able to find much information on the nature of Saturn transits?

What part of what you read seemed complex? The members here are pretty good at answering questions.
I'm not sure how to understand how the returning Saturn impacts the natal Saturn, while also impacting the 10th house. As well, I was reading about how Pluto's energy would likely manifest where transiting and natal Saturn are located. It all seems like a bit much for me to put together.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:05 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

It is a bit much to try to understand all at once. I use whole sign houses too, as JUPITERAC has mentioned. I've also been spending most of my time learning traditional astrology, which doesn't involve any of the planets or asteroids (Chiron) beyond Saturn. There are many members here who would be better equipped to answer Pluto questions.

I think what you really want to know is why your world seems so upside down right now, and even more than that, when will it get better? That is probably the reason you thought to look into astrology in the first place. Of course, there likely isn't much time for that if you plan to take the bar exam in July.

There is tons of information online about what a Saturn return means. There are also several threads here on AW about Saturn, and Saturn transits, that give personal experiences. In a nutshell, everyone who lives to be 29-30 years old will see transiting Saturn return to conjunct natal Saturn. Saturn is many things, but mostly what he does is make us look long and hard at the things he touches. If they are strong and solid then everything is groovy. But if there are flaws, he'll make sure they are pointed out, and then make you deal with them...whether you want to or not. For most people the Saturn return is the time of truly reaching adulthood. Starting a career, becoming self sufficient, sometimes getting married and possibly starting a family. It's about maturity. But "growing up" isn't an easy thing? And that's why we say ouch.

Saturn transits to angular houses (1st, 4th, 7th and 10th) are also harder because of the aspects. When Saturn is in (conjuncting) the 4th, he is squaring the 1st and 7th, and opposing the 10th. Those are not easy aspects, and he is then challenging you to look at all the major parts of your life at the same time he's coming around to help you figure out what you need to do to and build in your life for the next 29-30 years. He strips away the excess, never an easy thing to have happen. But once you get that foundation, it's usually pretty good.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:23 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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Originally Posted by Macattaq View Post
As well, I was reading about how Pluto's energy would likely manifest where transiting and natal Saturn are located. It all seems like a bit much for me to put together.
Macattaqu, astrologers are not in agreement regarding Pluto/the outer planets and here's a thread on the subject

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...065#post303065

(a)
the outer planets have only recently been discovered - in fact as far as Pluto is concerned it's mostly guesswork because Pluto is just entering the opposition to its discovery degree (22 Cancer) and there are no tried and tested delineations of Pluto in Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini - therefore IMO it's all guesswork and experimentation

(b)

Uranus, Neptune and Pluto orbits of the sun are
Uranus 84 years
Neptune 168 years
Pluto 248 years

contrast these orbits with

Mercury 88 days
Venus 225 days
Mars 687 days
Jupiter 12 years
Saturn 30 years

of the entire world population, few experience a Uranus Return, none experience a Neptune Return, none experience a Pluto Return
.

IMO not so confusing if you begin by focusing on Saturn, a planet known and delineated for more than two thousand years by multiple generations of astrologers! btw that just my 2 cents worth

FURTHERMORE: The fact that your natal Ascendant ruler the Sun is located in your natal 7th house of partnership and is in square aspect with your natal 7th house ruler Saturn and transiting Saturn is in the process of making a once in 30 year Return to its original natal placement is significant IMO
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:26 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

You're both making some very valid points. I'm going to leave off the outer planets, so I can focus on the core of my chart. Maybe I'll worry about them later, maybe I won't.

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FURTHERMORE: The fact that your natal Ascendant ruler the Sun is located in your natal 7th house of partnership and is in square aspect with your natal 7th house ruler Saturn and transiting Saturn is in the process of making a once in 30 year Return to its original natal placement is significant IMO
What I'm looking at now, I think, is some serious 4th, 7th, and 10th house moving and shaking. Which seems to make sense in light of everything that has been going on. It seems like having the natal Saturn in the 4th squared to the ascendant Sun in 7th is having an extra impact on my relationship with my fiancee. Looking at it like this, it definitely helps to explain things. I've derived a lot of my sense of worth and value from my relationship with her, so this is like saying I need to cut the **** and derive those feelings from my self. Simultaneously, the Saturn in 4th suggests that I might be able to do this by enabling myself to move past a painful childhood.

Very interesting stuff, thanks for your help so far, this is very kind of you.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:04 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

Are you getting your questions answered then? It is hard to say a lot about your relationship with your fiancée without being able to see her chart too. Personally, I see a 7th house Sun as needing to be with people or in a relationship. You are right that you probably need to find a way to be able to be happy on your own, but understand that this might be hard to do. The more we learn about ourselves, whether through astrology or through some other sort of self analysis, the more it becomes important to understand who we are, and how we can work with that to make ourselves happy. My take on your fiancée is that she's not the right one, and that is one of the things Saturn is showing you right now. Letting go is so much easier said than done.

Did you have a painful childhood that you need to overcome? I see that the square from Saturn to your Sun has reception. Your Sun is the ruler of your ASC, but Saturn disposits (or receives, or rules) the Sun. Without looking deeper into other forms of reception, your Sun in Aquarius is in fall, a form of debility. My guess is that you have issues surrounding self esteem? On one side you want people to like you and accept you, yet on the other you worry that in order to have that happen you have to be someone other than who you feel you are?

If there was a painful childhood, again guessing here, with Saturn in 4th (note, not the house of childhood so much as the house of "home" as in where you live, as well as the house most closely associated with the father..and other things) squaring the ASC ruler Sun...issues with the father?

The thing to keep in mind is that a birth chart isn't easily read, and also isn't easily learned. It seems you are starting off on the right foot, by trying to understand what you read, and apply it to your life. But, your birth chart, and all it's permutations (profections, solar returns, transits, and other things, lol) is your life, mapped in the stars. Every complexity, every nuance, every thing about you isn't going to be understood overnight...just like you can't be dissected and understood overnight.

You never answered my question about what you were really trying to find out. Is it to know when things will get better? tMars is currently retrograde in your second house of (again among other things) income that you earn. He's going to go direct this week? I think on the 14th, so maybe after that you might be able to pick up a part-time job, or something else to supplement your income. Venus rules your second house, and she is transiting your 11th...so maybe a friend will be the one to help you out there (and if I get that right then please let me know, lol. I'm still a student...)

As far as the moving and the shaking, well, Saturn is still retrograde and won't go direct until June. You can keep looking at the transit charts to see when he will hit your I/C, then your natal Saturn. Unfortunately he will be in your fourth for a couple of years, but (again, just a student here..) I <think> the worst part is the build up to the major points. So after he passes your natal Saturn things should start getting better? My advice though is to watch until he gets past the degree of your ASC/DC before things start to ease up on the squares.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:06 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

What I'm trying to find out is more about how to handle everything that is going on. What are the lessons I need to learn and absorb so that I can make my life as positive as possible? It helps to know when things may start getting better, but they always do no matter what, so I'm not terribly concerned about that. It's just in each major area of my life: career, family, relationships, everything is being challenged. It's almost too much to handle.

My relationship with my fiancee is interesting, that's for sure. I don't know if I need to end it or if we need to reconfigure our interactions. Though, she is going through her Saturn Return too.

You are spot on with the self-esteem part, particularly as it relates to balancing self expression with external reception from others. I censor myself a lot...

Childhood was difficult, but not with my father. It was my mother who was distant, cold, unavailable, and neglectful.

I'm starting to see that there is a lot to this, but hopefully I can gain some wisdom and figure out what how best to proceed over the next several months.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:20 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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Originally Posted by Macattaq View Post
What I'm trying to find out is more about how to handle everything that is going on. What are the lessons I need to learn and absorb so that I can make my life as positive as possible? It helps to know when things may start getting better, but they always do no matter what, so I'm not terribly concerned about that. It's just in each major area of my life: career, family, relationships, everything is being challenged. It's almost too much to handle.

My relationship with my fiancee is interesting, that's for sure. I don't know if I need to end it or if we need to reconfigure our interactions. Though, she is going through her Saturn Return too.

You are spot on with the self-esteem part, particularly as it relates to balancing self expression with external reception from others. I censor myself a lot...

Childhood was difficult, but not with my father. It was my mother who was distant, cold, unavailable, and neglectful.

I'm starting to see that there is a lot to this, but hopefully I can gain some wisdom and figure out what how best to proceed over the next several months.
I think that is the nature of Saturn transiting the angles. You are challenged to take stock, and fix or get rid of the things that aren't working for you. It does take work though, and I think if you don't do the work now, the next challenge (in about 7-8 years) will be more difficult.

As far as what you should do over the next several months, well have you thought of making a solar return chart?
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:36 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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I think that is the nature of Saturn transiting the angles. You are challenged to take stock, and fix or get rid of the things that aren't working for you. It does take work though, and I think if you don't do the work now, the next challenge (in about 7-8 years) will be more difficult.
It is possible that if you continue to ignore the fresh promptings of Saturn in about 7 - 8 years time, that you may then need to seriously consider the idea of belatedly making that decision - or a similar decision- when faced with Saturn's challenging response to the action - or lack of action of the current time.... thirty years hence!
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As far as what you should do over the next several months, well have you thought of making a solar return chart?
Good idea.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:20 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

So I got this chart:



From what I've read, I interpret it the same way that I would read the prior chart? Only, I'm looking for the areas of focus.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

Do what saturn would like you to do. Its not necessarily lots of money (venus), but ambition, rigor, organization, public duty, mental stability, etc. But yeah just go for the money, and then do whatever you want.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:19 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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the next challenge (in about 7-8 years) will be more difficult.
Sorry for barging in, what is the next challenge in 7-8 years?
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:31 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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So I got this chart:
From what I've read, I interpret it the same way that I would read the prior chart? Only, I'm looking for the areas of focus.
Guidance from Starlink of the Education Board with basic "STEPS ON HOW TO INTERPRET A SOLAR RETURN CHART"
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=17763

Celeste Teal has written a number of interesting modern astrological texts which also take note of traditional techniques and advises QUOTE:

"Natal Promise & Prediction

Of course all prediction starts with the natal chart. Nothing can come to pass that wasn’t promised in the natal chart... e.g. unless one or both luminaries are afflicted natally, the vitality and health should be good. If the Moon forms many amicable aspects then domestic conditions and relationships with women are favorable. But, if the Moon forms hard aspects to Saturn, then life can throw some curve balls or tough conditions to overcome at certain times. Unless there is susceptibility for an accident, then none will occur. The natal chart provides the base from which to look into any department of life to find the lifelong potential"

http://www.moonvalleyastrologer.com/special-points/
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:23 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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Sorry for barging in, what is the next challenge in 7-8 years?
Saturn takes 29-30 years to complete a cycle. If it's angular now (in this chart, at the IC) then in 7-8 years (I just checked and for macattaq it will be 2020) it will be angular again...next time transiting 7th, squaring it's current position, and challenging the rest of the angles.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:00 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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So I got this chart:



From what I've read, I interpret it the same way that I would read the prior chart? Only, I'm looking for the areas of focus.
Macattaq, I haven't had a lot of time to look, and remember that I am the newest of the newbs. My initial impressions of your SR chart, along with your profected chart, tell me that what you need to focus on right now, with all the chaos Saturn is revealing, is your 10th. Career, and reputation..among a lot of other things. Profection brings your 12th to the 7th...ending of relationships? It's a quick glance, so take that for what it's worth...maybe nothing.

Jupiter is on your MC in the SR chart. What do you really want to do, or be? Maybe if you start there, with that question, the rest will fall into place?
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:11 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

can i say that i think u r 2 nice 2 be a lawyer??? lol. bad relationship with your father when you were little? in terms of love and relationship, you will have lots so dont worry
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:26 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

It's funny you should ask that, TS, and it's funny you would say that babydoll. Since I was 16, I've only ever wanted to be a professional Dj. Chose lawyering because it seems financially safer. Ha! Now, I'm 200k in debt with no job on the horizon. But I've also been working hard to find a corporate job that will let me do legal work en route to being a practicing attorney.

And you're right TS, there is a metric megaton of chaos going on right now. Got stopped for a DUI a few days back, and had some unexpected bills come up. I've looked at some of the aspects in my natal though, and I think my main romantic relationship is fine - it's teaching me a lot of very important lessons, and forcing me to learn and grow rather quickly. But with school ending, a lot of my relationships will end. So yeah, that sounds accurate.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:35 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

can i say you compromise too much? i think performace might suit you with a powerful 5th house... but again that might not be your source of income..... i thought u'd have plenty of romances but you just love one person....
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:34 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

Natal is not my forte but, I wanted to say...Jupiter and Venus are the strongest planets in your chart. Jupiter is also transiting your 10th and Venus, shortly, will be in your 11th. This is actually really good for making contacts and expanding your influence and presence in the world. You need to use this time to do that. It will gel.

Have you considered being an advocate or possibly reaching out to work with contracts/legal/etc for entertainment industries?

Also, you may want to consider the horary board if you have any specific and burning questions.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:12 PM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

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Jupiter is also transiting your 10th and Venus, shortly, will be in your 11th. This is actually really good for making contacts and expanding your influence and presence in the world. You need to use this time to do that. It will gel.
..........
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:52 AM
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Re: Everything...is upside down

It's funny you mention doing that Anachiel. That is exactly what I have been doing over the last few weeks!
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