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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Old 12-29-2011, 08:26 PM
sdh3 sdh3 is offline
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Literary references in the Sabian Symbols

As most here are aware, what we call the Sabian Symbols came into existence in 1925 through the combined efforts of March Edmund Jones and Ms. Elsie Wheeler. Among the Sabian Symbols that they bequeathed to us are three obvious and intended references to the contemporary literature of the day. They are as follows:
  • Gemini 12: A Topsy saucily asserting herself
  • Aquarius 30: The field of Ardath in bloom
  • Pisces 30: The Great Stone Face

The first is a reference to the slave girl Topsy, a character in Harriet Beecher Stowe's classic novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin, published in 1852.

The second item is a reference to Marie Corelli's novel Ardath: The Story of a Dead Self, published in 1889.

The third item is a reference to the short story entitled The Great Stone Face by Nathaniel Hawthorne, published in 1850.

I have read all of the major works and many of the minor works on the Sabian Symbols but have yet to see any discussion of the reasons why references to specific works of literature and their characters are included among these symbols. I have a few ideas--and will share them at some point--but presently am anxious to know what others may think about this.

thoughtfully
sdh3

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Old 12-29-2011, 11:11 PM
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piercethevale piercethevale is offline
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Re: Literary references in the Sabian Symbols

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Originally Posted by sdh3 View Post
As most here are aware, what we call the Sabian Symbols came into existence in 1925 through the combined efforts of March Edmund Jones and Ms. Elsie Wheeler. Among the Sabian Symbols that they bequeathed to us are three obvious and intended references to the contemporary literature of the day. They are as follows:
  • Gemini 12: A Topsy saucily asserting herself
  • Aquarius 30: The field of Ardath in bloom
  • Pisces 30: The Great Stone Face

The first is a reference to the slave girl Topsy, a character in Harriet Beecher Stowe's classic novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin, published in 1852.

The second item is a reference to Marie Corelli's novel Ardath: The Story of a Dead Self, published in 1889.

The third item is a reference to the short story entitled The Great Stone Face by Nathaniel Hawthorne, published in 1850.

I have read all of the major works and many of the minor works on the Sabian Symbols but have yet to see any discussion of the reasons why references to specific works of literature and their characters are included among these symbols. I have a few ideas--and will share them at some point--but presently am anxious to know what others may think about this.

thoughtfully
sdh3
Really? I believe Rudhyar covered it quite well as to the symbols for the 30th of Aquarius and the 30th of Pisces. [and, geesh, 75 years is a bit a of time to be considered 'contemporary' to 1925...it's about as much as the year 1925 is contemporary to this time...but, I'll hear this out.]
I've done a lot of study over a period of 50 years into clairvoyance and dream divination, and also benefit from being the son of parents that studied the same and a brother, whom has done quite a bit of 'Dream Work', and has read enough psychology to challenge for a degree in Psychology...he has 4 B.S degrees...[one of which is in English Lit., the others in Sciences...Biology, Chemistry and Computer Science] a Masters degree in teaching and is currently acquiring two more at Western New Mexico State, and I believe Psych. is one of those. He's read more Jung and Freud than anyone I've ever met...[and that includes a couple psychiatrists and a number of psychologists].

You have heard my telling of how and when I determined that 666 should be properly interpreted as WWW in 1988. My own Clairvoyant abilities at dream divination and my explanation about how symbolism through divination must be interpreted through a means that is culturally germane to the subject matter that is of the 'question' that is sought.

And I have brought up that, as to the setting, manner, and time Mr. Jones put Miss Elsie through this endeavor, the emphasis was on getting the symbol, not the choice of words so much, but to get 'The Whole Picture' and determine later on just what they were and the two of them had come up with overall. As Jones had no way of knowing if Elsie could actually do it, nor did he know what these symbols were going to produce as a set..[by 'Set'; meaning congruous], and if a 'set' was even to be what should be expected.

I'll be looking forward to see what you write.
I saw the links to your manuscript and checked it out a bit..and I congratulate you what looks like a very slick looking package which you shouldn't have any trouble getting published, I believe...[or, is it published already?..I may have missed that if you said it is.]
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Last edited by piercethevale; 12-29-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:33 PM
sdh3 sdh3 is offline
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Re: Literary references in the Sabian Symbols

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Really? I believe Rudhyar covered it quite well as to the symbols for the 30th of Aquarius and the 30th of Pisces.
Not really. He wrote all of one sentence about each of these. Here's what he wrote about Pisces 30:

"Nathaniel Hawthorne's story "The Great Stone Face" is used here in an allegorical sense to show the capacity for self-transformation latent in man. "

Here's what he said about Aquarius 30:

"The originally recorded Sabian symbol stated: "The field of Ardath in bloom," which referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli centering upon ancient Babylon. The reference may well have been a "blind" inasmuch as Marc Jones has stressed his inner contact with a Brotherhood with Babylonian (or "Sabian") roots."

And as you note, he Rudhyar had nothing whatsoever to say about the literary reference contained in Gemini 12.

My question was focused on the "reasons why references to specific works of literature and their characters are included among these symbols." Rudhyar's analyses--as brilliant as they are--provide useful hints but nothing close to answers.

One thing I might add is that even though there are only three literary references in the Sabian Symbols, two of them appear on the same 5-pointed star. I wonder if that's by chance---the probability is very low--or if it is a hint of some kind.

Scorpio 6: A gold rush
Gemini 12: A Topsy saucily asserting herself
Capricorn 18: The Union Jack
Leo 24: An untidy, unkempt man
Pisces 30: The Great Stone Face


Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
I'll be looking forward to see what you write.
I saw the links to your manuscript and checked it out a bit..and I congratulate you what looks like a very slick looking package which you shouldn't have any trouble getting published, I believe...[or, is it published already?..I may have missed that if you said it is.]
Thanks for the encouraging words. I still have to write a conclusion and a few appendices--maybe 2-3 days work in total--and then I'll consider it done. I have no interest in traditional (book) publishing. So many people look for things on the web these days that if they can find my interpretations there, I'm happy with that. I'll let you know when the whole thing is complete.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:27 PM
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piercethevale piercethevale is offline
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Re: Literary references in the Sabian Symbols

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Originally Posted by sdh3 View Post
My question was focused on the "reasons why references to specific works of literature and their characters are included among these symbols." Rudhyar's analyses--as brilliant as they are--provide useful hints but nothing close to answers.

One thing I might add is that even though there are only three literary references in the Sabian Symbols, two of them appear on the same 5-pointed star. I wonder if that's by chance---the probability is very low--or if it is a hint of some kind.

Scorpio 6: A gold rush
Gemini 12: A Topsy saucily asserting herself
Capricorn 18: The Union Jack
Leo 24: An untidy, unkempt man
Pisces 30: The Great Stone Face



There-in probably lies your answer... I'd like to spend time with it... but... I have a 'priority list a mile long as it is... good hunting!
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