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  #26  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:37 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

Could be this one Kai?

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/tag/religion/

I don't think Mercury is significant for religion. If interested at all, Mercury would rather talk about or think about religion than do it.

Mercury and Jupiter are planetary enemies in the Vedic tradition. I think possibly because spiritual practice requires a curtailment of mental activity. People talk of quietening the mental chatter (Mercury) and connecting to something beyond (Jupiter).

Very hard thing to put in terms that won't make me sound like a kook to anyone who hasn't followed a mystical tradition, or been a meditator, or had some natural exposure to such experience. But, oh well.

Jupiter is also the natural ruler of the 9th there.

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  #27  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:43 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

Yes! That's the one, Moog!

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Originally Posted by Moog
I don't think Mercury is significant for religion. If interested at all, Mercury would rather talk about or think about religion than do it.
I agree with this. Even in magic, Mercury is an important player, but it only represents the calculations and the "planning" involved in it, whereas Venus represents the actual ritual. Just illustrating how Mercury "thinks or talks" about religious activity without participating.
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:52 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Ya, I think astrology is about observation whereas religion is about organization. One is about cognition and the other, control, generally.
I disagree, a genuine religious/spiritual/mystical practice is all about observation too. I see astrology as a form of meditation.

The dogmatic/controlling elements that surround religion are something separate, to me.

It's quite obvious that nefarious forces use religion for their purposes of power and control. But then, they will use anything.

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Saturn could also very well rule religion and, probably fits better when it comes to control and/or discipline.
I suppose we could try to get bondage clubs reclassified as churches.

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Guess it depends on what religion is doing to people or people are doing to religion. I'm not sure there is a 'one size fits all' planet for religion or belief.
Very much so. That's probably why there are so many religious sects, paths and traditions.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:09 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

I do think that pointing to one planet and saying 'that's your religion/worldview/idea about the meaning of life, right there' is a bit reductionist.

You have to assess the whole chart. But I do find the location and condition of Jupiter is generally a good indication of how a person thinks or feels about religion. Also the ruler of the 9th, and planets in the 9th or aspecting.

Saturn/Jupiter interacting in the 9th could lead to a kind of disciplinarian religious persuasion. Or other similar configurations.
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  #30  
Old 04-08-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

hi senshi - i don't think discussion, or others viewpoints are silly.. i like to consider others views and be respectful at the same time. {Provoking comment deleted by moderator}

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  #31  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:26 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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hi senshi - i don't think discussion, or others viewpoints are silly.. i like to consider others views and be respectful at the same time. what i do find interesting is an appearance of an attempt by some in the traditionalist camp to want to ignore or negate (silly/insult - pick your word) the role of the outer 3 planets in astrology.
Completely missing the point, sandstone. I didn't say that discussing other viewpoints is silly, I said discussing things in the context of relative viewpoints is silly. You never get anything accomplished because something always means something to someone. Religion may have a connotation of deception to some people, but it also has a connotation of control and organization to others, joy and mirth to others, and arrogance and war to more still, so it really becomes a grab-bag of what planet most accurately portrays religion because somone is going to have an argument for every planet depending on their own pet idea of what religion "really is".
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

i think that is all we really have senshi - our subjective views that we are sharing here with each other.. someone might like to think they are more objective which is fine, but i tend to see folks speaking out of a subjective position more then not.. sure, someone could make an association with every planet in connection to religion, but i think most folks doing astrology for any length of time will appreciate the strong connection with jupiter and religion.. i don't think a planet operates in isolation from any of the others, but this is my wet temperament speaking.. sometimes one comes more to the foreground, while another appears to recede.. i do think it is all relative.. maybe we will have to agree to disagree..
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Saturn could also very well rule religion and, probably fits better when it comes to control and/or discipline.
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Originally Posted by Moog View Post
I suppose we could try to get bondage clubs reclassified as churches.
Let's do our best... Opus Dei anyone?
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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Guess it depends on what religion is doing to people or people are doing to religion. I'm not sure there is a 'one size fits all' planet for religion or belief.

Mercury fits as a patron of astrology very well no matter how you look at that one.
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Suppose I ask you: "What planet has to do with rites of purification, piety and religious observance?"

Hellenistically speaking, your answer should be: "Venus
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Let's do our best... Opus Dei anyone?


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Suppose I ask you: "What planet has to do with rites of purification, piety and religious observance?"

Hellenistically speaking, your answer should be: "Venus
" - Robert Schmidt
That is interesting. From what I can gather from my very patchy take on history, Venus and equivalent goddesses seem to have dominated the religious culture of many of those ancient societies.

Perhaps because she's so very bright?
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2012, 05:05 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

would venus have to be vespertine as opposed to matutine or would it matter? wonder what rs said about this............
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:21 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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That is interesting. From what I can gather from my very patchy take on history, Venus and equivalent goddesses seem to have dominated the religious culture of many of those ancient societies.

Perhaps because she's so very bright?
The ancient astrological delineation of Venus is interesting Moog... I agree that Venus is very bright and therefore rather obvious in the night sky! Here's a comment made by Deborah Houlding at this link http://www.skyscript.co.uk/venus2.html

"Brilliant, awe-inspiring Venus is the most glorious object in the heavens, barring the Sun and Moon. Never more than 48° from the Sun, she can't be seen in the midnight sky, though unlike elusive Mercury, reveals herself magnificently in the periods between her helical risings and setting, often bright enough to be seen in daylight. As an evening star, Venus appears in the west in the period following sunset. As she draws close to the Sun she disappears from view in her helical setting, circling the Earth invisibly masked by the Sun's light. As Venus moves ahead of the Sun, she eventually becomes visible again in the east, in her heliacal rising shortly before sunrise" Deborah Houlding
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  #37  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:59 PM
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I got my friend to read a few of these replies, and he said astrology is aload of sh*t and that religion IS real.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:59 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

Being Christianity.
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  #39  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:00 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

but i do believe in astrology
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  #40  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:16 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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I got my friend to read a few of these replies, and he said astrology is aload of sh*t and that religion IS real.
Sometimes friends disagree bradderz777
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but i do believe in astrology
Traditional astrologer William Lilly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lilly was obviously aware of the disapproval of astrology in religious circles so he entitled the book he wrote "Christian Astrology"
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  #41  
Old 04-24-2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Sometimes friends disagree bradderz777

Traditional astrologer William Lilly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lilly was obviously aware of the disapproval of astrology in religious circles so he entitled the book he wrote "Christian Astrology"
Thank you for your reply!

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:22 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Thank you for your reply!

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................
Most people think that the "Star sign garbage" popular in newspapers as well as online is the totality of astrology. But there is more to astrology - as your friends would discover if they took the time to study a few books on the subject e.g. William Lilly's Christian Astrology or even Vettius Valens "Anthology". If you are interested to learn some astrology then do not be put off by the idea by your friends

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  #43  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:30 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

I was an atheist for four years and god did everything possible to make my life hell during these four years. I led a pretty peaceful life till the day I became an atheist I was almost expelled twice, almost died, flunked exams, touched heights of notoriety, experienced my first heart break which made me cry for the next 4 months; some guy even posed as a police officer & tried arresting me just to have a good time....

I had a crush on a guy in between & was advised by a friend "to pray". My prayers were heard! It was indeed a deal. I told god that I'll start believing in it if it gives me what I want which it did. After a month, I lost interest in both, the guy and god. The former continued asking me to get back for one whole year & I ignored him. After 2 years, karma decided to slap me on my face. I became the pursuer, he pretended, I fell hard, he dumped, I cried for 1/2 a year Now, that's when I became a theist.

My life began stabilizing then on. I left home at the age of 17 looking for "inner peace" & answers to certain questions. I had no idea as to where I was going, how I was going to find peace, etc. Moreover, I was in a foreign country with no money. Then this guy came running behind me asking if I needed help. I told him I needed to get to a holy place to spend the night there. He said that the so called holy men aren't right & I should get back home. He even offered money but I told him the only help he could render was drop me off safely at a temple, mosque, church or whatever. He & his friend actually sat for the next 3 hours explaining why I should get back home. I agreed.

I'm a non-religious theist. I was born & brought up in an Islamic state, come from a Hindu/Presbyterian/Buddhist family & went to a catholic school/university. I like Buddhism the most. It's an irony that Buddha himself was an atheist/agnostic. I find each and every religion faulty & if we choose to believe that god is infallible, it wouldn't have said stupid things. I often wonder why god chose only men as it's messengers.

I've a quite unorthodox view on god. I talk to it at any time of the day and we're more of buddies. And according to a lot of people, the way I talk is "disrespectful". I know this sounds stupid but I do talk to stars & the moon. I feel they protect me. I fear karma, believe in good spirits, astrology & the law of attraction. I have to test everything before believing.

Religion & god are definitely related but they are two separate & distinct concepts. God very well belongs to house 9. But religion, if we go by the literal definition, appears to be something very saturnine. Something traditional that's passed down from one generation to another. Something you're born without but are brainwashed to believe in. And most die holding it close to their heart, pretty resilient to change. I see it as deception so I agree with Kaiousei.
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  #44  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:15 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Originally Posted by bradderz777 View Post
Thank you for your reply!

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................

I really don't want to comment on this but, I feel something needs to be addressed. Hon, REAL friends might not always agree with you but, they won't try to change or humiliate you, either.

Also, religion can only point at churches and their own belief (which is outdated to say the least). Astrologers can point at stars and statistics (which is a might more than what zealots have to look at). In any case, live and let live.

The problem is, most religious people can't let people live. They feel they have to impose or, historically, torture, maim and kill to prove their point and "save" everyone. I don't see a lot of other belief systems or practices doing that, except for religion which, to me, is a red flag. Might a well be Nazi for all that's worth. Sorry, but someone had to say it. Fine line between a belief and a psychosis.

You have the right to believe as you like without fear of ridicule and punishment. You don't have to try to prove your practice or belief, you simply need to live your life as you see fit without imposition from or upon others. When in doubt, take the Zen approach.
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  #45  
Old 05-08-2012, 03:41 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Religion & god are definitely related but they are two separate & distinct concepts. God very well belongs to house 9. But religion, if we go by the literal definition, appears to be something very saturnine. Something traditional that's passed down from one generation to another. Something you're born without but are brainwashed to believe in. And most die holding it close to their heart, pretty resilient to change. I see it as deception so I agree with Kaiousei.

I had an agnostic view of god. Never an atheist. But I still am not sure. I know I will never be sure. I treat others as I want to be treated and trust in a plan. But when I pray or meditate and feel divine energy, I am not sure if it is that or just a chemical reaction. In any case there is a marginal utility for religion/spirituality-too much is bad too little is bad. Materialism is the same way.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:43 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

No technology has been devised as yet that can prove god's existence or non-existence. Just because we can't see/hear/feel/touch/taste something, doesn't mean it's not there. Centuries ago, no soul would've believed in atoms but in the 21st century, no soul can deny their existence.

An atheist/agnostic's history professor teaches him that chingiz khan was a shabby old man whose teeth shone like the Sun. He believes. His biology professor teaches him that streptococci cause meningitis. He believes. His moral science professor talks about the miracles performed by Jesus, Sai Baba, Buddha, Mahavira.....he doesn't believe/doubts.

As an atheist I would dismiss anything 'divine' (according to popular opinion) as coincidence, superstition, human psychology, ignorance, etc. But then I realized that believing in a god doesn't hurt. I feel better believing that my god will protect me if the earth decides to split into two & gulp me in. We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:07 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

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........... We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.
(1) Is there universally accepted "scientific evidence" evidence that “we all die in ignorance”?

(2) Is there universally accepted “scientific evidence” that “dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt”?

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I do think that pointing to one planet and saying 'that's your religion/worldview/idea about the meaning of life, right there' is a bit reductionist.

You have to assess the whole chart. But I do find the location and condition of Jupiter is generally a good indication of how a person thinks or feels about religion. Also the ruler of the 9th, and planets in the 9th or aspecting.

Saturn/Jupiter interacting in the 9th could lead to a kind of disciplinarian religious persuasion. Or other similar configurations.
Deborah Houlding says the 9th house is relevant to “Places and situations where we seek guidance and wisdom from others. Where we reach out into the unknown in search of widening our knowledge and understanding”

Lynn Birkbeck says: “In the 9th house we seek to understand the meaning of our experiences and our connections to the greater whole. This house represents our search for meaning through philosophy and religion. In this area of life we also seek to expand our knowledge and awareness through travel and higher education. Hence this house is also connected with all forms of higher education, travel to foreign lands, the law, religion and the use of the higher or more intuitive mental faculties”
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:32 AM
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Re: A question on Religions

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No technology has been devised as yet that can prove god's existence or non-existence. Just because we can't see/hear/feel/touch/taste something, doesn't mean it's not there. Centuries ago, no soul would've believed in atoms but in the 21st century, no soul can deny their existence.

An atheist/agnostic's history professor teaches him that chingiz khan was a shabby old man whose teeth shone like the Sun. He believes. His biology professor teaches him that streptococci cause meningitis. He believes. His moral science professor talks about the miracles performed by Jesus, Sai Baba, Buddha, Mahavira.....he doesn't believe/doubts.

As an atheist I would dismiss anything 'divine' (according to popular opinion) as coincidence, superstition, human psychology, ignorance, etc. But then I realized that believing in a god doesn't hurt. I feel better believing that my god will protect me if the earth decides to split into two & gulp me in. We all die in ignorance. Dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt.
I personally think agnostic is the SMARTEST and most logical way of being. It is the simple fact that nobody knows. I don't believe in miracles performed by Jesus or all the other people. Magicians also perform miracles (to me at least since I never can figure out how the tricks are done!).

You need 'logic'. Our world isn't full of magic and miracles (that go against the grain of physics). When you get wrapped up in the spiritual, then you become delusional and get worse off (like the bad side of Neptune or the Moon)...
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:20 PM
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Re: A question on Religions

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Thank you for your reply!

It was just in a conversation in which I had with a few of my friends tonight whilst having a drink of alcohol. I mentioned about astrology and they all laughed their heads off and one of my friends said "dude, why do you believe in that star sign garbage, none of it is real, only true is Christianity and that god made the universe and that is all you need to know!!!"

I don't agree........................
My first meeting with God was through studying occult! (Chinese astrology). I saw how the pattern of the stars and their motions affecting our life. I saw the destiny that God had decided for us or us had chosen our own destinies before birth; either way, because of the study of astrology, I really got to know Him a bit better...in a different way.

I look up the starry sky and know that He had created them for us not only for decoration but with Purposes. The ancient astrologist studied the sky and created calendars so then we know the seasons and time that God created for the livings. The more we study about these stars and their cycle/pattern, the more that we know how mighty the creator really is...

To me, to truly know the creator is not by reading the "Book" because sometime people mistranslated and some manipulated the true meanings to suit their own selfish desires and needs. To me, to truly know the creator is to understand His images and qualities through His creations. I prefer the First Hand experiences more . Is like if you have opportunity to interview God why bother reading the commercial newspaper? Not that the newspaper report is not good or incorrect, just not close enough. If you get what I mean.

The Bible itself had mentioned many astrological matters in varies books and chapters.

My other point is by studying the horoscope, you can actually see your own limitations as a human that none of us is perfect that we all have our secrets, our sins and know that we will all die and then leaded us to ask the Most fundamental questions of the meaning of life and the hope of the after life and of course Who is the "He" behind all these events and lives? In a way with good understanding of the chart, you shall humble yourself wholeheartedly. To me a true scientist And an true astrologist won't be able to deny God after all the things they discovered through their studies.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:28 PM
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scorpittarian scorpittarian is offline
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Re: A question on Religions

[QUOTE=JUPITERASC;387401](1) Is there universally accepted "scientific evidence" evidence that “we all die in ignorance”?

(2) Is there universally accepted “scientific evidence” that “dying a bit more ignorant won't hurt”?


You can have a little less or a little more information about something but it's impossible to know everything about everything. Astronomers are pretty knowledgeable about the universe, it's eight planets, it's various asteroids, etc. but they don't know everything about it. There's so much that hasn't been discovered as yet. Einstein himself was 'possibly' wrong when he said E=MC2. He died in ignorance of neutrinos. I'm a tourism student but if you ask me where on earth a place like Moron is or what it's famous for, I wouldn't know. Historians talk about Marie Antoinette & her famous 'let them eat cake' statement. They too aren't sure what exactly she meant. Literature students & professors wonder if Shakespeare really lived. His works = evidence. Then why this speculation?

Ignorance can cause death but dying ignorant won't hurt. We're born naked & have nothing to lose. I believe that it's not death that hurts but the journey that causes much pain.

You don't need to have a scientific evidence for everything. Do you have any scientific evidence that cold exists? There's scientific evidence that heat exists but nothing can prove cold. It's simply the absence of heat.
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