Astrologers' Community What can we learn from derivative houses?

#1
09-10-2008, 01:03 AM
 4leafclovah Guest Posts: n/a
What can we learn from derivative houses?

Can someone here please explain to me how derivative houses are to be interpreted? I have a book on this, but for some reason I am not understanding the relation of the houses. Anyone here know what I am talking about?

#2
09-10-2008, 03:51 AM
 BobZemco Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: I hate living here; this place is death. Posts: 1,976
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4leafclovah Can someone here please explain to me how derivative houses are to be interpreted? I have a book on this, but for some reason I am not understanding the relation of the houses. Anyone here know what I am talking about?
Nope. Try turning the chart. That usually helps beginners. If you're using software, you can print the chart, literally turn it and then renumber the houses so that whatever house your reading is on the Ascendant.

Just remember it's still your chart, so what you're looking at is through your point of view. If you're looking at your 2nd child, you'd have the 7th House on the Ascendant and read the chart from there.
#3
09-10-2008, 10:13 AM
 starlink Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I live in peace Posts: 6,344
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

What I have learned is that each next house supports the previous house and also shows the result of the house before, so your 2nd house shows how your money issues , earning power and self esteem could be as a result of your character and the way you behave.
Maybe you can look it up in the internet. Google, then put in Derivative houses in Astrology. That might bring something.
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#4
09-10-2008, 11:14 PM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 4,399
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

The main thing before using derivative houses is to get a pretty comprehensive grasp of what phenomena each house covers. My handy reference book on houses and most things is Rex E. Bills, 1978, The Rulership Book, (American Federation of Astrologers).

In a very simplistic way (with complications to be mentioned subsequently), derivative houses work like this:

1. Let's suppose you want to know about your sister's money. In a simple way, your sister is represented by your third house, and money is represented by the second house.

3. OK, then if you want to know about your sister-in-law's money, you would look at your 10th house, as it is the 2nd (or money-house) from your 9th (your husband's sister.) I find it easy to miscount, which is why I use the Bills book, because he simply lists a lot of common derived house meanings.

4. You would then read these houses in your chart in the usual way. Are these planets tenanted? If so any afflictions or are the aspects harmonious? I work with house-cusp sign rulers, and might continue on with those.

5. The complicated part is that traditional astrologers coming from a horary tradition have assigned different houses to children depending upon their birth order, different houses to aunts and uncles depending upon whose side of the family they come from, and you have to decide which house cusp you intend to use for father and mother, whether the money of interest mightn't be an 8th house rather than a 2nd house matter, and so on.

There is a kind of logic to some of this, as a second child can be considered as the first child's (5th house) sibling (3rd house) which would explain why a second child in a family should be an 7th house matter.

6. I played around with derived houses and found the results to be mixed. But well worth learning, because sometimes someone is just dying to know something (her husband's girlfriend....) and you don't have the other person's chart to go on.

Happy astrologizing! W.
#5
09-11-2008, 02:09 AM
 Matthew The Astrologer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 268
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

My blog entry:

http://matthewastrology.blogspot.com...f-ultmate.html

What can you learn from them? Lots!
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#6
09-11-2008, 07:09 AM
 4leafclovah Guest Posts: n/a
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Thanks for you help everyone! Now maybe I can understand this a little better
#7
02-24-2012, 03:20 AM
 Claire19 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 5,660
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4leafclovah Can someone here please explain to me how derivative houses are to be interpreted? I have a book on this, but for some reason I am not understanding the relation of the houses. Anyone here know what I am talking about?
okay your partner's sibling would be 7+3 so 9th house as you count around 3 from 7. So that is your inlaws. Your father's mother would be
10+4 so that would be 1st house. Mother's father the same 4 + 10th house. THen in reverse for mother's father and father's mother.

Your child's school friends would be 5 + 3 so that would be 7th house. Counting from 5th house of children plut 3rd of school friends.

Your partner's income would be 7th + 2 so that would be the 8th house of shared assets and inheritance from them. 7th house of partners plus the 2nd house of personal income and material assets.

You can do any number of combinations.

It is the same for a 2nd marriage as the first and the eldest sister or the youngest brother. Just partners and siblings.
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#8
03-12-2012, 11:02 PM
 DanaRenee Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 90
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Hello, I was wondering if someone could help me with this question with derivative houses?

If you are using your natal chart: and you have your natal sun(taurus) and mer(taurus) in your natal 2nd house/house cusp: Aries:

Then using your natal 9th house(for 2nd husband)in scorpio: and count six house from the 9th house( your natal 2nd house) would your natal sun(taurus) and natal mercury(taurus) could they represent your 1st husband(sun) and your children(mercury)with your 1st husband? , in your 2nd husband's 6th house of service, work-a-day sercive ect... and if so how does all of that fit into your 2nd house of possessions?

my attempt at reading this: (below)

So your natal 2nd house: would be your house of possessions/money ect. it would also be:
Your 1st husband's 8th house of: joint finances, child support, alimony ect.. and would be your 2nd husband's: 6th house of service, and work-a-day service.

You and your husband share custody of your children, and he pays you child support and or alimony, and that your 2nd husband? what would be his part in this???? using it as his 6th house?? this is where i get confused?????? ugh

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#9
03-13-2012, 05:59 AM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 4,399
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

In a derived house system, you wouldn't look at the planets in the first instance. Just focus on the houses.

Your husband and marriage are shown by your 7th house. Your children are shown by your 5th house. Your money is shown by your 2nd house. I don't think you can differentiate between husbands in multiple marriages or children from more than one marriage, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

So your 8th house is the house of "shared resources" from your marriage, because it is the 2nd house from your 7th. Your husband's work (6th house matter) would be the 6th house from your 7th house, or your 12th house.

You can add another step if you wish. Suppose you want to know about money derived from your husband's work. Starting with your 7th (husband) and his work (6th from the 7th, or 12th) his income would be a first house matter (2nd from the 12th.)

Of course, the sun in a woman's chart can represent her husband, but derived or "turned" houses pretty much focus on the houses. If you find a planet in a derived house, however, you would read it normally according to the planet's nature and its aspects.
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#10
03-13-2012, 07:25 PM
 DanaRenee Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 90
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Thank you
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#11
03-29-2012, 08:33 PM
 Blackempress Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: 8th House! Posts: 692
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Here's a great link introduced by Claire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_house
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#12
03-29-2012, 09:57 PM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 4,399
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

This is a great link! I would suggest that there are additional meanings to houses than Wikipedia describes (for example, the 11th is also the house of friends.)

Also, you can use derived houses in your own chart. For example, if you want to know something about your partner's or spouse's love affairs (of the "is he cheating on me?") variety; you might look to the 5th house (love affairs) to your 7th (partner/spouse), which would be your 11th house. Of course, this house would also describe your spouse's children (perhaps from a prior marriage) or leisure activities.

Then you can do more than one derived house. For example, take your sister-in-law's cat. As your brothers wife, we start with the third house of siblings, and count 7 houses starting with the third, which gives us the 9th house for your brother's wife. Then small pets are a 6th house matter, so we count 6 houses starting with the 9th, or your 2nd house.

I have found sometimes derived houses work really well, and sometimes not.
__________________
"That which you have tried yourself, which you have experienced, which you have recognized as true, and which will be beneficial to you and to others; believe that, and shape your conduct to it." --Buddha, Kalama Sutta

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." --Jack Layton, Canadian NDP leader, "Letter to Canadians," written two days before his death from cancer.
#13
03-29-2012, 11:05 PM
 Lin Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 970
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

I agree with Waybread that the accuracy can go down for this stuff when you are discussing multiple marriages and children and grandchildren.
But looking at the 7th house: sometimes there are 2 signs that rule it, or planets in 2 different signs...or even just 2 planets...and it could be that one planet "describes' in a way, one husband and the other planet, the other.

However, the 5th house from the 7th will always describe children of the spouse. And so of course, that can get hairy if there are a lot of children.

Its always best to have the chart of the person you are interested in....EVEN if it's a solar chart, noon chart or dawn chart. Any reliable chart is better than no chart.
The further you get from the birth chart info, the less accurate it can be.
LIN
#14
03-29-2012, 11:08 PM
 DanaRenee Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 90
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

I have also found that sometimes when your natal chart does not make alot of scense that using your natal draconic chart works!
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DanaRenee
#15
03-29-2012, 11:11 PM
 Lin Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 970
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

WHOA there Nellie..
if your natal chart doesn't make sense, either you have the wrong birth info or you aren't reading the chart accurately. Your life is THERE on the map. promise.
LIN
#16
03-29-2012, 11:18 PM
 waybread Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: A class M planet near you Posts: 4,399
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Lin, I agree that once you find the House of Interest, its interpretation is not necessarily straightforward! I would look at both the modern and traditional cusp rulers of the house, if relevant.
__________________
"That which you have tried yourself, which you have experienced, which you have recognized as true, and which will be beneficial to you and to others; believe that, and shape your conduct to it." --Buddha, Kalama Sutta

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." --Jack Layton, Canadian NDP leader, "Letter to Canadians," written two days before his death from cancer.
#17
03-30-2012, 10:51 AM
 Claire19 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 5,660
Re: What can we learn from derivative houses?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4leafclovah Can someone here please explain to me how derivative houses are to be interpreted? I have a book on this, but for some reason I am not understanding the relation of the houses. Anyone here know what I am talking about?
Sure I use it all the time.

Your sister's husband is 3rd house and then add 7th house right?
Siblings + partners = 9th house. Inlaws. Your childrens children 5th house + 5 houses around the wheel = 9th house again. So your grandchildren.

Or your child's friend. 5th house of children + 3rd house of friends =
7th house.

Your mother's sister is 4th house + 3rd house = 6th house. Then her children add 5 houses as the 5th is children = 10th house of cousins.

It takes a little getting used to but you start from the relevant house, counting that and add the number of the house that deals with a particular relationship. i.e. Father is 10th house and say you want to see his sister so you add 3 houses for siblings and that comes to 12th house.
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