Why co-rulers?

[iwonder]

Why do we need co-rulers in addition to significators and Moon in horaries?

I noticed here people often talk about Mars (or Sun) being a man's co-rulers, and Venus being a woman's co-ruler. I think it clouds the answer. Mars, Sun, Venus - they all are likely to rule houses in the horary. Shouldn't they be used as those house rulers, responsible for other areas and thus better describing the situation?

In those cases when they rule houses not pertaining to question, I understand they can have a general meaning. But would Venus co-rule the querent (if querent is a woman), or another woman? Same for Mars.

Wouldn't too many rulers of the same person be confusing and produce conflicting answers? Or allow to "cook" answers to our liking?

[Rebel Uranian]

This answers part of your question:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=44938
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...page=19&post=7

[CapAquaPis]

All of us and everything have a ruling planet, co-ruler and the addition of detriment, exaltation or fall. For example, a Capricorn has Saturn as a primary sign, then comes Uranus as their secondary, detriment is the Moon, exalting is Mars or Jupiter (I forgot which) and Jupiter (or Mars?) is weak/fall to chart their daily horoscopes. Their zodiacal opposite Cancer are Lunar, but detriment is Saturn, exaltation is Jupiter and fall is Mars. However, the debate whether to add a co-ruler (the Sun, Eris, Ceres or Chiron are heatly contested) is part of the ambiguous nature of astrology. The two Near-Earth objects Lilith and Cruithne are considered to be a "co-ruling influence in the middle four signs: Cancer, Leo, Virgo and Libra.

[iwonder]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

This answers part of your question:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=44938
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...page=19&post=7

Uranian, I don't think it answers my question. I understand qualities of planets. These discussions pertain to natal astrology. In horary, as I see it, things are kept simple and to the point.

For example, there are horaries when significators of querent and the quesided make a positive aspect, but there is one of those "co-rulers" that is in a negative aspect with querent/quesided. Or vice versa. Why whould I confuse myself with the co-ruler's aspect when main signifucators provide the answer?

[Rebel Uranian]

Well, which planet in horary would signify a transgendered person?

[Serendipity]

Sometimes when there's a chart about relationships people use Sun and Venus to determine physical attraction between the 2 parties. Personally, I don't find that helpful. I stick to the main significators.
Sometimes if there's another planet in the house of either querent or quesited people will take it as a co-sig. Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find these planets may show the state of mind of the querent or quesited or perhaps another person they are involved with or has involvement in the situation, not a co sig.
Moon is usually co ruler of querent and shows what's happened and how the situation will play out.

[iwonder]

If that person is querent, it will be Asc ruler. If it is quezided, it will be that house ruler - 7th if "the other", 11th if friend, 3rd if sibling or neighbor, etc.

If it is Mercury, then we probably can say there is the transgender theme showing. If it does not, then it is not critical for the question. But I would not look for Mercury to represent that person in addition to whatever the actual significator is.

[Serendipity]

If it is Mercury, then we probably can say there is the transgender theme showing

Not sure where that came from but no, not the case.

[iwonder]

My previous post was to Uranian.

I agree with Serendipity. Other planets are other people/things/events.

For example: a woman asks a relationship question, neither 1st or 7th house are ruled by Venus, but 7th ruler (man) is in aspect with Venus. Is that Venus querent or another woman the man is dealing with? Or maybe Venus is neither but whatever house she rules. Could be his career or home matters.

[iwonder]

Originally Posted by Serendipity

Not sure where that came from but no, not the case.

One of those discussions Uranian gave links to was about male/female qualities. Mercury is interchangeable. So that's my guess: if Venus is a woman, Mars is a man, Mercury is neither, or both, or changing.

[Serendipity]

Venus wouldn't be the querent. I'd look to the house she's in or house she rules to see what it means. If she is in the 7th then it could mean the quesited has someone else.
If the moon applies to venus and they have mutual reception then it could mean there's going to be a relationship, maybe further communication etc but wouldnt consider it as a co ruler of anything.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by iwonder

Why do we need co-rulers in addition to significators and Moon in horaries?

I noticed here people often talk about Mars (or Sun) being a man's co-rulers, and Venus being a woman's co-ruler. I think it clouds the answer. Mars, Sun, Venus - they all are likely to rule houses in the horary. Shouldn't they be used as those house rulers, responsible for other areas and thus better describing the situation?

In those cases when they rule houses not pertaining to question, I understand they can have a general meaning. But would Venus co-rule the querent (if querent is a woman), or another woman? Same for Mars.

Wouldn't too many rulers of the same person be confusing and produce conflicting answers? Or allow to "cook" answers to our liking?

Not that I am expert in horary but I also find co rulers in ordinary astrology confusing and I dont use them. It arose when they did not have the planets to assign to all the signs at one time... They use Saturn for Aquarius which is ridiculous and I dont believe Venus really belongs to Taurus for instance....

[Rebel Uranian]

Originally Posted by Claire19

They use Saturn for Aquarius which is ridiculous and I dont believe Venus really belongs to Taurus for instance....

Actually, trad rulerships are the only ones that make sense. Uranus is just a mix of Mercury, Mars, and Saturn. Actually, most of the "cool" outers (especially Pluto) are variants of the "boring" Saturn, with some inner planets thrown in.

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Mercury’s nature is to contest and to destabilize

Originally Posted by Moog

The original Uranus

[Anachiel]

Originally Posted by iwonder

Why whould I confuse myself with the co-ruler's aspect when main significators provide the answer?

Normally, you wouldn't but, the main signifcators don't always have the answer. Sometimes the answer comes from the Moon or co-significator or natural ruler - which is what you are referring to.

Sometimes it's all of the above. Depends on the level of detail you need or is needed to answer the question. For a simple 'yes' or 'no' question you can probably get that from the main significators. however, for a lost item or stolen item, you will probably need all three if you are going to find it again successfully, as opposed to accidentally.

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

Well, which planet in horary would signify a transgendered person?

If a transgendered person was asking the question then, they are signified by the Ascendant and it's ruler.

If you were asking about a transgendered person, then the 7th; unless they were your child, then the 5th, etc.

The natural ruler of a transgendered person could be Mercury, because of his mixed nature, but also Venus or Mars or even Saturn, to some degree could signify this in certain configurations.

[Rebel Uranian]

Nobody better try to practice horary in a postgender "utopia"

...Although that same principle could apply to today's world to some extent, because we are not defined as the social roles we fill. I mean, look at all the men wearing make-up in earlier times. Makeup is clearly ruled by Venus. And look at the Middle East where women aren't allowed to show their faces. Saturn rules denial/deception/darkness/hiding your face, and Saturn is masculine.

[Anachiel]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

Nobody better try to practice horary in a postgender "utopia"

...Although that same principle could apply to today's world to some extent, because we are not defined as the social roles we fill. I mean, look at all the men wearing make-up in earlier times. Makeup is clearly ruled by Venus. And look at the Middle East where women aren't allowed to show their faces. Saturn rules denial/deception/darkness/hiding your face, and Saturn is masculine.

Yes, excellent points.