Death of a parent and Pluto transits

[Flowergirl]

Quincunx's hey? My dad had Pluto, Chiron and Neptune quincunx his natal Pluto at his death.

In my chart, there was two quincunx's involving transit Saturn with Chiron and transit Uranus with Mars and NN at my fathers death. Transit Pluto is in my 10th house.

I guess that didn't mean much at the time but in hindsight, he must have been going through a tough time for the last few years. We didn't see each other much before he died.

[waybread]

A lot of charts have quincunxes in them.

If astrological death prediction were an exact science, the life insurance, pension, and medical industries would have lots of astrologers on staff.

I've lived through several major quncunxes to or from Pluto.

Still here, last time I checked.

[luxsaxon]

Originally Posted by BobZemco

The Planet Pluto does not represent death and never did.

Maybe it was just a coincidence, but my grandmother died when transiting Pluto made exact conjunct to my mother's natal Moon.

[Vista]

Originally Posted by BobZemco

Those are minor aspects. I don't see how you could possibly justify a minor aspect such a momentous event. A quincunx is actually no aspect all. That's what we call "reaching" to coerce a chart to say something it doesn't.

This would be an example of astrology:



The 10th House would be your father's derived 7th House, which is a House of Death just like the 4th and 8th Houses (because the 7th House opposes the Ascendant).

Still, I would dismiss it as coincidental, since I see no evidence Pluto is a "personal Planet." I would be looking at Directed Sun to the Lot of the Father, or your Profected Ascendant or Sun making a square or opposition to the Lot of the Father in your Natal Chart, as well as looking at the Lot of the Father's Death.

Is there free software for deriving the "Lots?" I have the latest version of Solar Fire but it doesn't have anything about the Lots. Also, do you look at transits to the lots as you would traditionally look at transits? What about progressed Moon?

[Alice McDermott]

Here is Lindsay Crosby's Secondary Progressions for the death of his mother.

Note the Ascendant is quincunx both natal Pluto and Secondary Progressed Pluto, which are in the natal 8th house

Also interesting in the Secondary Progressed chart is the quincunx from dwarf planet Ceres to 8th house Vertex, but I suppose you are not familiar with either of these points.



For those interested, here is his natal chart with birth data.



Alice

[Alice McDermott]

Originally Posted by Vista

Is there free software for deriving the "Lots?" I have the latest version of Solar Fire but it doesn't have anything about the Lots. Also, do you look at transits to the lots as you would traditionally look at transits? What about progressed Moon?

Solar Fire has an extensive collection of the Lots only they call them Arabic Parts.

Open up the chart you want to use, then go to the menu on the right hand side. Click Reports, then scroll down to Arabic Parts, click than and a list of Lots will come up.

Solar Fire has several lists but only the default one will come up when you do this.

If you want to look at more options go back to the first page and then click Chart Options on the menu at the top of the page, then click Files, then choose Arabic Parts File, click it and you will see a number of options. Highlight the one you want then click 'select'. This will remain your default Arabic Parts file until you change it to another.

Alice

[Alice McDermott]

Originally Posted by waybread

A lot of charts have quincunxes in them.

If astrological death prediction were an exact science, the life insurance, pension, and medical industries would have lots of astrologers on staff.

I've lived through several major quncunxes to or from Pluto.

Still here, last time I checked.

Yes, but in prediction the quincunx must be relevant to the event.

I think the only reason astrologers and not visibly on the staff in these areas is because of the current climate of ignorance and prejudice. I know of a few medical areas in my city which have trained astrologers, but these are also trained medical personnel.

Here's and interesting story - When I first opened my office in a busy street, I decided to insure against accident or injury for my clients - but the insurance company refused to insure me, stating that as I was an astrologer I would know when an accident or injury would occur!

I figured that they were right and was careful to map the times that this could be possible and make sure I warned my clients to take care as they came in. I never had any problems for the years I was there.

Never-the-less I was astounded that the company took my profession seriously and from that assumed that they did have astrologers on the staff.

Alice

Alice

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by Flowergirl

Hi, I have been curious about this for a while. My father died of natural cause during my transit Pluto square sun transit (3 degrees separating). I've heard that Pluto transits to Sun or Moon in the child's chart could be indicative of the natural death of a parent. I am not talking about the charts of children. I am talking about the charts of adults with elderly parents who at any time may die of old age.

I am curious to get a discussion going and ask people to look at what was happening in their own charts during the death of a parent. To see if we can get a pattern going. Just out of interest.

Thanks

I'll just add my experience of Pluto, it was sextile my 3rd house Moon retrograde earlier this year when my Aunt on my Mum's side passed away. Moon rules my 8th house.

[hermetic]

My mom died 10 days ago.
Transiting aspects to my chart?
Pluto square sun, IC and MC, Uranus opposition Sun and IC, conjunct MC. Uranus just started going direct when that happened

[Rjd10036]

I too am worried about Pluto Transit and a death of a parent as well as a few other things with this transit

Pluto transit in my 4th house. My Moon is also located in my 4th house. Also my 8th house ruler is in my 1st house which I read implies inheritance, This only added to my fear of a death.

I posted my question here along with my chart. If anyone can help I would be very greatful!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=44284

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Rjd10036

I too am worried about Pluto Transit and a death of a parent as well as a few other things with this transit

Pluto transit in my 4th house. My Moon is also located in my 4th house. Also my 8th house ruler is in my 1st house which I read implies inheritance, This only added to my fear of a death.[really I don't think death is implied with this...]

I posted my question here along with my chart. If anyone can help I would be very greatful!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=44284

T Pluto is years off making any aspect to your natal moon....I have replied on that thread for you...

Ruler of the Eighth House in the First House
"Other people's money can come to you through an inheritance. Or perhaps, other people's values can have a considerable influence on you. A radical lifestyle change could have a significant effect on your approach to life. It's also possible that a mystical experience at some point will change your outlook on life."
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology...rships.htm#hr8

[waybread]

Hermetic, I am very sorry about the loss of your mother.

Rjd10036 and Hermetic, there really are no "death signatures" in a chart, at least not ones involving Pluto. Modern astrologers have tried, and found no consistency. This makes me think that death, like birth, is a highly individualized matter. And possibly a birth into another dimension-- just as there is no commonality in natal horoscopes.

Traditional astrologers of yore put a lot of effort into calculating length of life and manner of death, without using the then-unknown outer planets. Trouble is, their calculations were often different, as well; and some of the more public and infamous predictions by well-known astrologers were wrong!

Moreover, to some traditional astrologers the 4th house meant one's father, with one's mother in the 10th house. Some also thought that with a day birth, Venus indicated the mother, not the moon. You were born with Pluto conjunct Venus, and Mom is still around, I take it.

Given all of this uncertainty, it isn't worth your while fretting about transiting Pluto hitting your moon. However, it may profoundly alter your relationship with Mom, so now is a good time to let her know how much you love and appreciate her! The energy of a transiting Pluto square is "out with the old" so that something new and more positive can take its place. Resistance is futile. Think "New Years resolutions" for your family relationships.

[byjove]

Hermetic, that is very sad news, I'm so sorry to hear that.



Alice, that story about your insurance is so funny to me! Since when did they start taking us seriously?! I'd love to hear someone say that to me lol. Imagine they LATER found out you were an astrologer and you didn't say it, could one be in trouble? Plus, where's the dividing line, knowledge of or praticing professional? Retired profession? Honestly, in that line of business, they have as good an imagination as any novelist as to why or why not. Acts of God and the rest of it...(I respect religion etc. but I hate seeing businesspeople use religion in their defence e.g. insurance).

I'll mention this on a thread I've been writing, but professional and respected astrologer Robert Zoller (Google only shows Zoller not Zoeller, and all the interview I've found with him write Zoller not Zoeller) said that government officials and big corporations were always observing and some professional astrologers...never involved, supporting or refuting but observing...it must be fascinating and scary on the other side, with a total lack of information looking at the rest of us...

[hermetic]

Thank to you both waybread and byjove, it is sad, but in some way I am not saddened as I thought I would be, she was sick for a long time, so death to her came pretty much as a relief, and I hold on to this, trying not to be sad.

Originally Posted by waybread

Hermetic, I am very sorry about the loss of your mother.

Rjd10036 and Hermetic, there really are no "death signatures" in a chart, at least not ones involving Pluto. Modern astrologers have tried, and found no consistency. This makes me think that death, like birth, is a highly individualized matter. And possibly a birth into another dimension-- just as there is no commonality in natal horoscopes.

This is very interesting, especially since I do believe in existence of soul and feel death is not the end by any means, except in the physical realm.

I also think everyone can find some aspect pointing to death that happened, but none of those will be exactly the same for everyone, so no universal 'death signature' can be pinpointed. And while I do agree that Pluto as death carrier is somewhat superficial view on the planet and it's influence, especially after learning much about it here on the forum, I wrote about those transits happening on my chart at the time of my mother's death, simply because I feel those aren't accidental.
For example, my brother had transiting Pluto exactly square to his natal Venus(day birth), plus his SA Venus conjunct natal Chiron in 12th house by a minute on that exact day.
So, while not universal for everyone, some pointers are there, as it is not surprise that such a significant event as death of one's parent is visible somewhere. It's just we can't predict it by aspects, progressions, solar arcs alone, but when it happens, it will be found. Especially, considering the fact that family members often share some natal placements, that makes these transits affect relatives.
Example, my mom's SN/NN axis is 5 degrees Libra/Aries, I have Sun and IC on 4th degree of Libra, brother has Venus on 6th degree Aries. So this Pluto transit activated all of these by square.

I plan to do a separate post on her illness and death, eventually, because it is in a way astrologically interesting, timing of events and overall nature of illness is well represented by her chart.

[waybread]

Hermetic, you raise a very good point. In the case of a parent's death, you probably will not find the same configurations in the children's/siblings charts, even though the parent is the same for them. What you can see is something about how the death affected them.

[Skywomb]

I'll report back here within max 5 years, about my father. (He is already dead in spirit, not the same person. Liver damage.....(can lead to all sorts of things, his high blood pressure for one known fact....))

[deleted swear - moderator]

[mahaira]

Originally Posted by waybread

...This makes me think that death, like birth, is a highly individualized matter. And possibly a birth into another dimension-- just as there is no commonality in natal horoscopes...

I feel the same way. Death is individual as is life and can’t be boiled down to a single definition, group of aspects or configurations. Once it occurs it is easy to find some connections in the chart of the deceased and his/her loved ones, but it is by no means a recipe. Even if death could be defined absolutely, it would still have different meanings for everyone. For some death is a tragedy they never get over, for some a relief, for some a new beginning. Birth itself is an event that marks us profoundly. Some go as far as to reenact it in order to get over it.
When my mother died, transiting Saturn was forming a broad conjunction with my DSC, Pluto was transiting my ASC and Sun was transiting my natal Pluto. As she was (and still is) one of the most important beings in my life, her demise changed everything, my perception, attitude, beliefs. At the moment, she was experiencing the second Saturn return. Would I have been able to predict her death by looking at our charts? Maybe, but I am sure that I wouldn’t have been able to do so for with any certainty a complete stranger.
Change can be foreseen, but we can never be sure that it will result in death. Death is a sum of all experiences we had and decisions we made.
One of the astrologists I have seen, while talking about my health, slipped up for just a second, as if she had not been aware that she was actually saying what she was thinking. She said that I’d die of respiratory problems, to be more precise, an undiagnosed serious sinus infection will spread to my lungs (8th house in Gemini, with Mars conjunct its cusp in opposition to Neptune in the 1st house; I have Venus and Jupiter in the 8th house). Fortunately, she didn’t say when. Do I have recurrent sinus infections? I do, up to the point that doctors started shrugging off when I came to see them. Do I think about what she said? Sometimes… but not enough to be worried. What is certain that she shouldn’t have said that, not even if I asked her to.

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by mahaira

Fortunately, she didn’t say when. Do I have recurrent sinus infections? I do, up to the point that doctors started shrugging off when I came to see them. Do I think about what she said? Sometimes… but not enough to be worried. What is certain that she shouldn’t have said that, not even if I asked her to.

I am sorry to hear of the loss of your mother, Mahaira.

That astrologer shouldn't have said what she said, but she may also not be right. That may have been information that will help you ensure that you get a second opinion if a doctor shrugs you off in the the future. I believe we have some choice.

In my family history, its becoming apparent the female line on my mothers side suffer, and have been taken, with strokes. My mothers mother from a brain hemmorage, and her sister died from stroke last year, and now my own mother had a mild stroke this year but survived it. It scares me, also as I worry now I will go the same way - Mars in the first house, trine Chiron. But, I also have an option to make a lifestyle choice and do all I can to remain as healthy as I'm able.

[Sherenu]

Originally Posted by Alice McDermott

I thought Kurt Cobain shot himself in the head on 5th April 1994?

Please let me know the correct date so I can search for quincunxes as I am sure they are there.




I will need Lindsay's birth data to check his Secondary Progressions etc.,

I never postulated that transiting Pluto makes aspects to the Sun or Moon at times of death so I don't know why you suggest it was a theory of mine. I merely showed transiting Pluto was active in the charts of the Princes when their mother died in answer to your statement that it wasn't.

In addition, as I have mentioned in my original post and above in this post, these conditions show in at least one method of prediction e.g. transits, progressions, directions or age harmonics - they don't have to show in every method but they do have to be relevant to the situation, as I demonstrated in my article.

Alice

My mother died yesterday I have Transit Pluto trine Moon 1 degree orb and Saturn in 4th house opposite to Moon in 10th. She was sick for almost two years and after a long struggle with Cancer she died yesterday. Transit Chiron from 8th has Quincunx mars in the first.

Now what I am worried about is that in Oct. i will have transit Saturn opposite moon exact this time and before that in May tr. Saturn frm 4th house will Square mars in first.

i dont know which transit would best describe her death. But i read somewhere Saturn opp. moon could a death of a parent.
I am worried about the next transit in oct.
Can any one help what this transit could mean ?

Sherenu

[Abby83]

I find this thread interesting because when pluto was squaring my natal sun (which happens to be in the 12th house with Saturn and pluto), I found I had a death in my relationship with my father which transformed my marriage relationship.

[Claire19]

I dont use Pluto, full stop. It is not a planet and is smaller than some asteroids. I would look more for Mars and death. the transit has to have a natal echo with the same planets involved. For parents, the 4th and 10th houses involved very often or Moon or Sun through the 8th or 12th, especially if they die in hospital or some kind of institution. .

My father passed away when Saturn was in my 8th house of death and dealing with his estate matters. There are many different scenarios.

[Abby83]

[QUOTE=Claire19;462583]I dont use Pluto, full stop. It is not a planet and is smaller than some asteroids.QUOTE]

I disagree with this idea that pluto isn't useful. In my life pluto has always had a major impact and transformation that feels like death and rebirth.

[BluEyedGrl105]

When my Dad died T. Pluto was in my 8H sextile n. Venus. I never found this significant until I realized the degree T. Pluto was on is my Saturn/Sun midpoint.

T. Pluto also trine 4H n. Jupiter.

More importantly I had T. Saturn in my 12H opposing my natal libra stellium (I think my Sun at the time.)

Come to think of it I'm pretty sure T. Pluto was on my older sister's Sun or Mercury at the time...

So she experienced the death in a very Plutonic way (intense emotions, 180 degree shift) while I experienced in a more Saturnine way (repression of needs, loneliness.)

Edit: Oops, the OP said they were interested in adult's losing their parents. I should tell you I was 7 and my sister was 13.

Edit again: Yeah, so. T. Pluto wasn't anywhere near my sister's Sun/Mercury yet lol. But it was trine her IC and conjunct her DESC (by about 5 degrees though...) T. Pluto was about 3 degrees away from squaring her n. Moon and conjuncting her n. Uranus (so bringing out the n. Moon/Uranus square.)

[Promethean]

My mother died suddenly in a car accident about 8 years ago. I looked at my chart to see what transits were happening...

Pluto was transiting my 11th house and was making no aspects with my Moon.

Transiting Jupiter (retrograde) conjunct natal Moon within 2 degrees in the 8th house...
Transiting Pluto was opposing natal Jupiter within 3 degrees in the 5th house...

Checked my younger sister's chart...
Transiting Pluto was conjunct her natal moon by 10 degrees ( I would consider that to be too wide out?? )

I have experienced the Pluto Square Sun transit and my father is still living.
I think these Pluto transit aspects with the Sun figuring a father may die and Moon figuring a mother may die are according to the astrologer, Donna Cunningham, if I am not mistaken?

[Alice McDermott]

Originally Posted by Claire19

I dont use Pluto, full stop. It is not a planet and is smaller than some asteroids.

I don't think it is a matter of size Claire19. If you are a consulting astrologer you can't ignore its impact as many, many clients come to see an astrologer for the first time because of the intensity of their Pluto transits.

I have long puzzled as to why Pluto has such a powerful effect in transits - and it does for almost everyone, though there are always people who don't resonate to one planet or another, including Pluto. Chiron is another mystery as it is really, really tiny.

I think it is because of their positions in the Solar System. Perhaps specific orbits in the Solar system will give a more powerful resonance with Earth than that of other asteroids, Kuiper belt objects etc.

Alice